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Giants and Delay of Game

Daniel in MI : 11/12/2007 3:41 pm
After this game, there has been considerable discussion of Eli and the Giants and the delay of game (DoG) calls. In fairness, the DoG can be created by the QB not being attentive, or the calls coming in late, or both. So, I won't say it's just Eli, but rather Eli and the coaches.

It seemed to me, we often run the clock way down and we get hit with what seems like one a game. But, I was wondering if that's accurate, and how Eli and Giants stack up to another team in this department.

So, I did a little research going through game books for each game so far this year.

Good news: I was wrong. We don't have 1 per game. But, we have have 1 or more in 4/9 games or 44% -- specifically, GB, Phi, Atl, and Dal.

Bad News: We also had 3 this week, which makes a total of 6 on the year for Eli and TC in the regular season.

Ok, but, how does that stack up against another team? In a vacuum it doesn't tell you anything.

Well, going through the gamebooks is slow and a PIA, and I can't find anywhere that they just list players and penalties. (If you can find this, please list them out.) So, I decided to just use 1 point of comparison. To be fair, I picked a player from Eli's cohort who should be similar in experience, and on a team with a reasonably similar record. I chose our favorite point of comparison: Big Ben and Pit. I honestly had no idea how many they had to date, or what I'd see.

Results: In 9 games to date, Ben and Pit coaches have exactly 0 DoG calls. None. I could only find 1 such call on the Steelers, and it was on a punt and may well have been intentional.

So, as a point of comparison: we suxed! I welcome anyone who can find summary stats of penalty by player or who wishes to check game books for other QBs to give other points of comparison. But, so far, this analysis suggests Eli and the coaches need to get their act together because that's too many.

On the up side, I will say that Eli is pretty good at the hard count, but that doesn't really excuse the DoGs.
Eli makes more audibles and changes things at the line more than Ben  
Jughead : 11/12/2007 3:43 pm : link
Thats one reason for the Steelers not having any Delay of Games.
I expect a lot more delays this week in hostle environment  
Gmen56 : 11/12/2007 3:45 pm : link
in Detroit.
Eli has flirted with that play clock all season long  
bigbluefan92 : 11/12/2007 3:45 pm : link
Now I don't know whether or not he got the plays in a timely fashion or not, or whether or not he was having problems with his head-set as has been brought up, but I do know that he has run that clock down and risked delay of game penalties in every game this year. The good news is that this is a correctable problem and I believe yesterday's game was a good wake up call on this. I doubt it is still a problem down the stretch.
Daniel  
FJ : 11/12/2007 3:47 pm : link
This thread isn't as funny as your usual work. Maybe I just don't get it. :)
You really can't reason it out.  
MOOPS : 11/12/2007 3:49 pm : link
There is absolutely no excuse for DoG penalties. Especially in the hurry up.
does roethlisberger even say anything at the line other than "hut"?  
MindlessBanter : 11/12/2007 3:50 pm : link
i think there's a fundamental flaw with the way our offense is run. in some offenses (i.e. colts) the playcalling falls pretty heavily on the quarterback's shoulders so he can get up to the line quickly and make the reads and adjustments there. then you have the coach-heavy offense where the quarterback just pretty much runs what was called on the sideline (ben roethisberger). that's the kind of offense where you have to have good communication from the sideline and then communicate to the team and run it.

ours seems like a mixture of the two, and i think it's just too time consuming. even on the plays where eli gets it off, the defense is given the ability to pin their ears back because they know as the time ticks down to 1 and 0 that the "hike" call will not be a false one.
It's been a problem all season  
SanFranGiantsFan : 11/12/2007 3:50 pm : link
It's inexcusable. No sense in defending it.
it's possible Ben has had to use a timeout here and there  
Enzo : 11/12/2007 3:51 pm : link
to prevent a delay of game call - but it's not like the Giants haven't done the same either.
The Giants use a more complicated system  
sharkly : 11/12/2007 3:55 pm : link
TC said it was his fault. Eli should have just said STFU we are running out of time?
it's stoopid and it's Eli and Gilbride to blame  
Dave : 11/12/2007 3:56 pm : link
get the call in, and get up there and go for cryin out loud
Mindless Banter  
Jughead : 11/12/2007 3:59 pm : link
I agree with you. Peyton makes a ton of calls on the line but they almost run no huddle. The play gets in right away, and Peyton has time to make the calls.
The Coaches and Eli  
Daniel in MI : 11/12/2007 4:05 pm : link
Eli has definitely been flirting with the play clock all season. TC took the blame? I read Eli take the blame for it. Both of them (plus Gilbride) deserve the blame for it.

In some games, including this one for the first 3 quarters, I wondered if it was on purpose in that we were trying to shorten the game and maximize our time of possession (which we were). So, that's fine to run the clock down.

But, when we are behind and in hurry up, that can't still be the mode they're in. So, how is it the coaches can't figure out what to call and get the play in quickly? Or, how is it Eli can't hustle the team up to the LoS and get a play off? Esp. when we are coming off a TO, TV TO, or other penalty?!

I agree, Eli makes a lot of calls at the line, probably way more than Ben/Pit does, but that's a choice of the coaches, and knowing that, they all need to get the plays in and get on up there. And, Eli needs to move the team with tempo and a sense of urgency (as JF loved to say). A coach as prepared as TC is supposed to be should not keep having this happen.

And, we have burned TOs to avoid penalties, too. I didn't bother counting that.
FJ  
Daniel in MI : 11/12/2007 4:06 pm : link
The funny is between the lines, see?
it was pointed out in a football outsiders  
80offensive : 11/12/2007 4:39 pm : link
article that delay is generally called a second after the clock expires, so the qb usually has the chance to get the play off at 0. That changed yesterday for some reason, as the penalty was enforced as soon as the clock hit 0.
From Vacch. Blog  
Gmen56 : 11/12/2007 4:55 pm : link
Quote:
.....Wondering what happened on the three delay of game penalties? Eli Manning said he thought the refs called one of them a little too early, and on another he noticed a blitz and was trying to change the protection but C Shaun O'Hara couldn't hear his call. That's an odd reason, considering O'Hara is right in front of him and the Giants were at home, but that was the reason he gave.


One thing this team is good at....is coming up with excuses.
I also noticed  
DomerGiant2008 : 11/12/2007 5:04 pm : link
that on more than one occasion the receivers to TE's were on the wrong side of the formation so some time was lost getting them in to proper position
DoG's  
McGIANTS : 11/12/2007 5:11 pm : link
I know I'll take heat for this but I remember under Jim Fassel, the Giants were able to get the play in and Collins snapped the ball with at least 5 seconds left on the game clock. As much criticism they got from us fans, that's one thing they had down pretty well. It's sad that we're back to the delay of game issue again with Coughlin/Gilbride/Manning. Frustrating.
I had always figured that was part of the plan to  
Randy in CT : 11/12/2007 5:14 pm : link
control the clock. Hey, it keeps the ball away from the opposing offense just a bit more...
I checked Payton  
HBart : 11/12/2007 5:14 pm : link
Who goes through more antics at the line than anyone else. He has 2 DOGs this season, one versus NO (home) and one versus Carolina (road).

Delay of game penalties are the tip of the iceberg...  
fraycous : 11/12/2007 10:11 pm : link
Running down the clock until miliseconds has much more implications. Besides the obvious DoG flag, gives the D a much better chance of teeing off. Other negative possibilities/observations when running the play clock down includes the fact that when Eli audibles so early in the count, may actually give the D a better chance to readjust to the Eli's audible.

Another bothersome fact is that most encroachments/off-sides due to Eli's hard count predominately occurs during first half of play clock, i.e, when the D is much more unsure. We've all seen it when a QB and Oline are trying to get D to jump in order to steal a 1st down, but as the clock winds down to 5 sec and below, the bluff is rebuffed.

Think this was a concern by someone before the game:

TrueBlue56
fraycous : 11/7/2007 11:06 pm
I agree with the pre-snap having been more of a problem, but I think I remember a huge Tiki TD run called back for a hold against Detroit, ala the Joey Tom Brady Harrington game, that seemed to really negatively shift the momentum of the entire season. Could be wrong but I remember that left side run inside the pile on followed by the collapse.

Aside from sans Luke, have a feeling pre-snap penalties/drive killers may diminish if the O picked up the pace, not necessarily in and out of huddle, but rather snapping earlier with variation between say 20-3 seconds left on clock. Seems most of the jumping occurs with less than 2 on the PC, which in turn gives the D a much more successful chance of timing the snap.

Nothing groundbreaking, but still pisses the hell out me.
Eli should stop saying "Omaha"  
PEEJ : 11/12/2007 10:16 pm : link
and just say "O"
Eli was drawing them offsides for the last few weeks  
Art in JerseyII : 11/12/2007 10:30 pm : link
Especially on the nig one it looked to me like he tried to get cute, and the refs must have sensed it and punished us for it. Looked like we were hoping for a cheap 5 yards and burned ourselves.
Lol Peej  
fraycous : 11/12/2007 10:40 pm : link
I'd settle for "Lincoln", "Pierre", "Jackson", etc., for crying out loud. After we get that down, the super early pointing out of the MIKE and other impending heat way too early may be something to look at.
he should switch from "Omaha"  
Gmen56 : 11/12/2007 10:46 pm : link
to "Walla-Walla"
No offense and my bad if I'm connecting the dots  
fraycous : 11/12/2007 10:57 pm : link
But what was the "nig one", serious question and I'm not following, mind clueing me in if you can?

Bottom line, way too much much outsmarting/overthinking on our part while at the line of scrimmage. No need for a full time 2 minute O, but should start assimilating the positives into the regular O.
my bad  
fraycous : 11/12/2007 10:58 pm : link
"not" connecting the dots
HBart  
Daniel in MI : 11/13/2007 11:19 am : link
Thanks for checking that. In some ways, I'd expect fewer from Petyon as he's more experienced, and much more so in the no huddle. But, the Giants seem to both huddle AND do a lot of histrionics at the line.

I'm hearing more excuses now in the press about Dallas pulling a D alignment we hadn't seen and Eli having to figure out blocking. So, that's several excuses now.

In a 2 min. offense, trying to save the clock, we should not be running down the playclock close to 0 much less getting a DoG.
The Dyslexic Atheist  
NNJ Tom : 11/13/2007 11:27 am : link
doesn't believe in DoG.

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