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2 Point Conversion Chart

AnishPatel : 12/6/2007 2:14 pm
I thought this would be cool to share if people wanted a copy of a 2 point coversion chart. I scanned it really quick. One side shows what to do if your ahead, and the other when your behind. Hope this helps.

Points Behind

Points Ahead

very cool anish  
willybon5 : 12/6/2007 2:16 pm : link
That's pretty cool.  
sg0508 : 12/6/2007 2:18 pm : link
My chart only says go for 2 in the 4th quarter or maybe in the 3rd if you're in a very low-scoring game.

Not going for 2 after the Droughns TD with 1:30 left was downright stupid and the argument that Devin Hester is on the Bears doesn't cut it for me.
NYBEN : 12/6/2007 2:22 pm : link
just curious ,explain why you think going for 2 was so big there?
Sg, why was kicking the extra point stupid?  
eclipz928 : 12/6/2007 2:22 pm : link
What difference does it make if the Giants go up by 5 rather than 6 in that situation?
The problem with this is that it's too simple.  
Crispino : 12/6/2007 2:25 pm : link
It doesn't take into account the time remaining in the game. Unless I'm missing something, that has to be taken into account.
You are right,  
AnishPatel : 12/6/2007 2:32 pm : link
I thought the same thing as well when they passed it along to me this year.I will try to find out if I can get my hands on an NFL one. But perhaps time remaining and quarter are factors that the NFL coach must decide by himself, hence such a big margin for error among coaches in the NFL in time and game management for 2 points. That's the only thing I can think of. But I will ask to see if there is an NFL chart and if it's different.

The problem with this is that it's too simple.
Crispino : 2:25 pm
It doesn't take into account the time remaining in the game. Unless I'm missing something, that has to be taken into account.
You always have to take into account the "feel" of the game.  
sg0508 : 12/6/2007 2:35 pm : link
If you're in an offensive game, you may want to kick for 1 until the 4th when you absoluely have to go for 2. Don't give up points too easily.

If you're in a low scoring game, you may not get a 2nd chance at another touchdown, so perhaps going for 2 earlier than the 4th quarter is okay.

Against the your math. If we go for 2 and miss, 20-16..kick the extra point and we're at 21-16. There is no difference beteen a 4 and 5 pt margin. If we go for 2 and get it, 22-16 and even with a Bears TD, they still need the extra point to win. Don't EVER take an extra point for granted. They are missed or blocked occasionally.

By kicking for 1 there, the Bears wouldn't need an extra point for the lead. This is not the 1st time Coughlin has fcked up regarding the 2 pt/extra point deal and if you mismanage it, eventually you'll lose a game.

That was very poor game management there, first not forcing hte Bears to use their last timeout, then leaving alot of time left and then not going for 2 when we should have with 1:30 left.
chart is stupid for many reasons  
MindlessBanter : 12/6/2007 2:38 pm : link
why in the world would it recommend that you go for 2 when down by 10? if you're down by 10 you don't want to lose the opportunity to tie with a FG?
jarrodbunch : 12/6/2007 2:40 pm : link
errrr... I think you're reading it wrong.
YAJ2112 : 12/6/2007 2:40 pm : link
How would you lose the opportunity to tie it with a FG if you are down 10? You would be down 9 if you made the XP vs being down 8 if get the 2 point. Either way you'd be down 10 on a miss. OF course you go for 2 at that point.
He assumed it was pretouchdown  
jarrodbunch : 12/6/2007 2:41 pm : link
Sg, your logic on that is sound, but its all the reason why  
eclipz928 : 12/6/2007 2:55 pm : link
the Coughlin did make the right decision. Sure you can't take an extra point for granted, but you can't also take a 2-point version for granted.

Had the Giants went for 2 points instead of the XP there would still have been the chance something could go wrong leading tho them turning the ball over. An opponent can return a TD for 2 points of their own during a conversion attempt. Had the Bears done that they would have been down by 2 points (20-18), needing only a field goal for the win going into the kickoff.

Unlikely? Sure. But not as unlikely as the Bears under Grossman marching down the field, scoring a TD, and then missing the XP. The Giants making the XP attempt and having their defense stop the Bears (something they had been doing for almost the entire 2nd half) for 90 seconds was the safer choice.

Although, I do agree that Coughlin should have forced the Bears to use their last timeout before running it in.
Dude, in the pros,  
sg0508 : 12/6/2007 3:01 pm : link
it cannot be returned. If the conversion fails, the play is over. It's not like college.
FJ : 12/6/2007 3:01 pm : link
You don't know the NFL rules. Only the offense can score on a conversion attempt (1-pt or 2-pt). The defense can stop the offense from converting, but they cannot score any points themselves.
giants90 : 12/6/2007 3:03 pm : link
is right..not going for two there was stupid
FJ : 12/6/2007 3:13 pm : link
There is still avalid reason for Coughlin to have gone for 1 point.

Here's the scenario. The Giants have just scored to make the score 20-16. Say the Giants go for 2 and don't convert. They are now up by only 4 with 1:30 left. If somehow Devin Hester returns the ensuing kickoff for a TD, the Bears would be up by 2. The above chart says they should go for 1 to put them up by 3. The Giants would then have about 1 minute to try to get in FG range to tie the game.

If the Giants instead go for 1 (as they did), they'd lead by 5. Again, Hester eturns the ensuing kickoff for a TD and the Bears go up by 1. Of course, the chart says to go for 2 - for which the success rate is about 50%. If they don't make it, then the Giants can win with a FG. If they do make it. The Giants can still tie with a FG.

Before you reply to me that I shouldn't be so concerned with the chance that Hester would return the KO for a TD, let me point out to you that Hester returns kickoffs for TDs more often than the Bears placekicker misses extra points. My scenarios (a TD return) was more likely than yours (a missed PAT).
FJ read my original post  
sg0508 : 12/6/2007 3:20 pm : link
Devin Hester being on the Bears does not provide me with a reasonable excuse not to go for 2 with under 2min left.
So FJ  
giants90 : 12/6/2007 3:22 pm : link
Would u rather have them go for two..or would you rather be the one going for two. Whats the percentage of two point conversation rate this year?
For the Bears game  
SLIM : 12/6/2007 3:22 pm : link
I agree with SG as I thought that Coughlin should have gone for 2. The argument could be made the other way so I reversed my decision into thinking that it was a no brainer.

SG is absolutely right with his other point as that you can't go for 2 unless absolutely necessary. Fassel could never seem to grasp this thought and always seemed to go for 2 way too early. I remember a game against the titans that he went for 2 with about 10 minutes left in the 4th. The score was finished something like 38-36 and at the time, Fassel played like the Titans would not score again although the defense gave no indication up to that point that we can stop them. We failed the first try and then had to keep chacing poings failing another one and possibly a 3rd.
sg0508 : 12/6/2007 3:25 pm : link
Bingo...The Titans game ended up 32-29, losing in OT.
I checked, I was wrong about the 2-point conversion thing - my bad  
eclipz928 : 12/6/2007 3:25 pm : link
BUT, there is a rule that says that if during a conversion attempt a defender forces a fumble that makes the ball travel into the endzone before being recovered, that is considered a "1-point safety" for the defending team. So, either way there's a scenario where a 2-point attempt can hurt you in that case.
sg0508 : 12/6/2007 3:28 pm : link
Think about how ridiculous that dumb possibility is. What are the odds? You play the odds there and you go for two. Why you fighting so hard on this>

Too many coaches have no concept of when to go for 2 and when not to and so often, you lose games because of it.

The Giants have been outcoached about 50 times since Fassel became coach and I'm sick of it.
If you want to go the "Odds" route  
jarrodbunch : 12/6/2007 3:31 pm : link
you should kick the XP.
okay...the EXTRA POINT does absolutely nothing there.  
sg0508 : 12/6/2007 3:35 pm : link
It's worthless. The 2 pt conversion based on the ending margin means something. 4 pt lead vs a 5pt lead means diddly with 1:30 left.
Sg, its actually not really a big deal to me. When he made the  
eclipz928 : 12/6/2007 3:36 pm : link
call I didn't think it really made a difference. I think its ridiculous to be upset at Coughlin over a just as unlikely hypothetical.

Running the ball in and then kicking the XP just confirmed what should have been on everyone's mind at that point - Coughlin having little confidence in the offense, and a lot of confidence in the defense. In the end, the special teams and defense took care of business as expected. End of story.
sg0508 - You are dead wrong.  
jarrodbunch : 12/6/2007 3:48 pm : link
You would go for two for the sake of going up 6, with the hopes of Chicago missing the XP if they score? That is idiotic.

Assuming a 50/50 shot of making the 2 pt conversion and the fact that Gould has made 99% of his XPs. You are banking on a 0.5% chance.

There's a much better shot at Hester returning the KO for TD, or Chicago scoring early, leaving you with time on the clock (and all of your TOs) to retaliate with a FG which would only tie rather than win the game if you missed the 2 pt conversion.

Coughlin made the right move.
for all you guys saying the Giants were right to kick the XP  
YAJ2112 : 12/6/2007 3:53 pm : link
You do realize that if Chicago did score at TD to go up 22-21, that they would have gone for 2 to put them up 24-21 and make a FG tie, not win the game?
Yes the chart's  
jarrodbunch : 12/6/2007 3:56 pm : link
right there, it was just more convolution I was trying to avoid.

but you can't avoid it  
YAJ2112 : 12/6/2007 3:59 pm : link
One decision leads to the next. Your argument is that the Giants shouldn't go for 2 so they can win with a FG. But Chicago would go for 2 to make sure the Giants can't win with a FG.
You are assuming  
jarrodbunch : 12/6/2007 4:04 pm : link
Chicago converts in both of your posts. You are still forcing them into attempting the 2 pt conversion.
FJ : 12/6/2007 4:10 pm : link
Yes, I pointed that out in my explanation above.
Well done FJ  
jarrodbunch : 12/6/2007 4:13 pm : link
I wish I would have read your explanation before I wasted time writing mine. You did a better job of saying the same thing.
FJ : 12/6/2007 4:27 pm : link
I've found that usually, when people claim that going for a 2-pointer is a no-brainer, there's usually plenty of valid arguments why it is not a no-brainer.
Going for 2 after Droughns' TD makes NO sense.  
Section331 : 12/6/2007 4:34 pm : link
Let's say Giants don't make the 2, and KO to Hester. He takes it to the house, and the XP puts the Bears up by 3. The Giants would get the ball back with over a minute left (I don't remember how many TO's they had).

So if they are able to get into FG range, they are kicking the game-tying FG, not the game-winner. All of that for the slim chance that Gould misses the XP?
Derp, I see others made the same point I did.  
Section331 : 12/6/2007 4:35 pm : link
Oh well...
Just figured out what is wrong  
Blackbeard : 12/6/2007 5:21 pm : link
with the Giants coaching staff, particularly TC. They (He) don't EVER agree with sg0508! They must go!
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