Foxsports-Giants/Saints reach a deal for Shockey?

but I never totally forgave him for dropping that simple TD pass in the San Fran playoff game.
You knew there was trouble when he didn't attend both the ceremony at the White House and the visit to Walter Reed. Shock loves the guys that fight for our country, I couldn't believe he wouldn't even swallow his pride just to go to Walter Reed.

Theres no denying that and anyone trying to diminish him now that he is gone is not being objective

That Said... We just got a 2nd round pick and a 5th round pick for a guy who has never played 16 games in a season, has never been near 100% late in the year when the games got big outside of his rookie season, and on top of it all did not want to be here. That cannot be overstated. He did not want to be here, and the team did win the SB without him. While much is made out of that last point, probably too much, it still does stand

It was a good trade

it's fair value for a malcontent who might not even be healthy by the time training camp or even the season starts. He hasn't finished a season in 3-4 years and he might not start this one.

Some people act like we can't win without him. We only won a freaking SB without him and overall in the last 3 years we're 7-2 without him and one of the losses was against the Pats when we scored 35 points without him.

I don't want someone who doesn't want to play for the Giants and apparently neither do Reese nor Coughlin. I hope the Giants win another one or two SBs without the selfish whiny bitch. And I would say that to his face... as long as there were prison bars or very thick glass between us.

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I appreciate Shockey's play for us, there's no doubt he was one of the best 2 way TEs (2 way being the key). But I don't want someone who doesn't want to be here, who doesn't accept his role and doesn't appreciate the great situation he was blessed to be in. Good luck in NO you selfish whiny bitch.

but I think it's the right move. I trust Reese, and I feel that the compensation is more than adequate. Shockey had to go. I loved watching him in Blue. I'm more disappointed in the way his NY career turned out (which is primarily his fault), rather than being disappointed in losing him. No one player is above this team, and Reese has demonstrated that yet again.

me. And, I'm sorry to see him go.

But, they absolutely got fair value for him.

More than fair, really.

that Boss gained 15 lbs of muscle this offseason?

by not doing the deal in April before the draft. We gained nothing by waiting and now we have to wait til next April to utilize the draft picks. One of the few bad decisions by JR since he took the reins. I think it's fair market value for Shockey seeing as it's slightly better compensation than the 'Fins got for Jason Taylor yesterday. Another note I hate trading him in conference to a team we may be seeing down the road in the playoffs.

it goes to show just how much of a distraction he was or made of himself that it came to this.
That said - I think this team can be great without him. I am sad to have never seen Shock and Boss line up at the same time though.

If he becomes a "merely adequate" blocker this year, I think the Giants will have made out.

I wouldn't say that. I am sure Reese and the team evaluated who was the board, and went from there. We must have no liked the guys on the board, so kept him. Now from what I remember reading next year's potential class has a chance of being deep, so who knows. Make that opinion next year, once we see who we draft, and the production of that player. Way too early to tell.

I'm betting Shockey would still be a Giant. Yes I realize its not league approved yet.

I am unbelievable conflicted about this.

First of all I didn't think this was ever going to happen, I figured there was no way that they would trade him when his value was at his lowest, and after a good first week all would be fine. Now that it has happened, I am pretty pissed, both at the Giants and at Shockey.

Regarding the Giants, assuming the Saints are good this year, this is a terrible trade. Mid 2nd round picks are nowhere near considered locks to be solid NFLers, so to only get a future 2nd and 5th is basically giving the guy away. I know that the gmen were basically forced to give him a way, but to only get that much really pisses me off. On the other hand, if Reese felt the room wouldn't have the same chemistry with Shockey as it did without him, then I somewhat commend him for being very concerned about the character of the team, that being said they didn't get enough. I'll let the Cowboys and Redskins pick up all the talented cancers and watch the teams self destruct in crunch time.

Regarding Shockey, I have always been a big supporter of his, but now I am done. I guess I started turning on him when I saw him on Inside the Guiants a few weeks ago when 2 ten year olds interviewed him. They asked him if he could be drafted again where he would want to go, and without hesitation he said the NO Saints. Good answer Shock. After supporting the guy since he came here, I feel betrayed by him for giving him the benefit of the doubt when he did stupid things (called out the coaching staff, excessive celebrations, took unsportsmanlike conduct penalties, stood up M&MD, didn't show up at post SB events, bitched coming back into the huddle) I always said that his emotions have always been a result of his burning desire to win, but now I realize he's a selfish punk. After the magical run the team had last year, and this year going in to the perfect situation, clearly his ego is bigger than his heart. Anybody with a great desire to win would be chomping at the bit to come back and show the team is better with him than without him. Now, instead of coming back to the SB champs he's going to a mediocre team that missed the playoffs because they will "utilize" him better. Maybe that's because they have to because they don't have any other receiving threats other than Colston. Give me a fcking break, if you want to win so badly stay with the team that gives you the best chance to win, but I guess he's in it more for the money and the stats than anything. From what everyone says the Giants locker room is one of the best in the sport, so for Reese to basically hand him to the Saints he must have been that much of a distraction. He's gonna leave here acting like he was some martyr who never was treated fairly by the media, yet will never realize how much the fans cared for him. It's a shame the guy is such a dumbass.

Just for the record, this is exactly the deal Matt was posting about on draft day. When it didn't go down, the angry hoards on BBI were blasting him.

Good job on getting it right the first time Matt.

and I'm very saddened to hear this news. I think it's a big mistake, and the Giants will live to regret this move. Shockey will too.

He has missed 4 regular season games the last 3 yrs.

Shockey had no leverage. None. I mean, other than being a malcontent.

I don't get the In Reese I trust stuff. Not that he's done a bad job, just that he's capable of making mistakes like anyone else. I think this is one of them.

waiting a year to get the same picks we could have gotten in April devalues the deal, those are the facts. No way the draft board influenced it, noone has a clue what next years draft will look like to compare it to. Having the players in our system this season would have been a major plus. Now next year it will be nice but if this situation was agunfight I wish we had pulled the trigger sooner.

Move him out. Last of the malcontents, luke, tiki and now Jethro. Time will tell.

I would have given up the 5th pick if there were takers.

Assuming that there was some truth to the rumored three way deal that would have involved Jason Taylor, would you have rather had him or the 2 picks from the Saints?

must be happy.

I could not disagree more with your comments. The 2009 Draft will be one of the best drafts EVER. Players know that the NFL will be changing the way rookies are paid beginning in 2010.

Knowshon Moreno, the standout running back from New Jersey (Univ of Georgia) has told people I know that he is coming out, even though it is only his soph season (though his 3rd at UGA).

There is not a quality Junior that will stay and wait for his senior season, knowing that the pay scale for rookies is about to take a tremendous change. Any Sophomore that redshirted (completed 3 years)and has a great 2008 fall season will also enter the 2009 draft.

As Giant fans, we should all be thrilled, especially if we get an additional 3rd rounder for Gibril. Imagine having extra picks in the 2nd, 3rd, and 5th in a great draft?

Getting a 2nd and 5th for Shockey is very good value, especially if its proven that both picks are in 2009.

As for Shockey leaving, I'm saddened. I liked him as a Giant.

Shockey didn't want to be here. The Giants were tired of his act. I think the Giants were a better team with him, but he was not irreplacable.

And, the Saints gave up a 2 and a 5 for a player with a significant injury history. He has never played a full season and I would be surprised if he does this year.

The Giants have three solid TEs going into the season and the upgrading of their wr corps means the pass catching from the TE position will be less important.

What's going to be interesting will be the revelations from both sides about how bad the relationship was.

And, we will see how much he makes the Giants regret trading him.

While I'm unhappy to lose JS as a player, as a person he had to go. If this opens up the money needed to get Plax, Eli, and BJ signed to extensions, it's for the best. I think BJ gives the Giants the same Doberman attitude on O that JS did, only BJ has NEVER whined about his own role when AB got touches instead of him; that's a huge plus in BJ's favor.

I'd expect BJ to be used in some capacity (if not as TE) to compensate for Shockey's field presence. Now if only BJ can stay healthy... That was one long read.

It was all media nonsense! Shockey was fine!

This sucks because it's lesser value than the supposed deal before the draft it was Reese who pulled out of this. It's a shame for everyone involved that it came to this.

This hurts. Not surprised but this hurts

I think the FO wanted to keep Shockey. They are fully aware of his value and the many pros of keeping him. As it appears, it was his mini-camp antics (and whatever happened between him and Reese) that caused Reese to pull the plug now, prior to camp.

I told Eric and Phil the source, they should have been in place to know they wanted that 2nd and 5th, which as I had mentioned, I was told about on the Thursday morning before the draft.

What I was also just told, again could be right or wrong, but makes sense with the speed of the Taylor deal. The Giants/Saints/Dolphins were working towards that rumored 3 way deal. The Giants and Saints wanted it done before camp opened this week (ie, even today). The Giants wanted to renegotiate Taylor's salary. The Redskins jumped in to break it up and removed the requirement to renegotiate Taylor's deal, which could have submarined the 3 way trade. The Dolphins backed off the 3 way and went with the Redskins. The Giants and Saints then basically decided to go at it with the same parameters being discussed back in April, but for the 2009 variations (2nd and 5th). Bottom line, it appears Jason Taylor could have been a NYG today if the Redskins didn't lose 2 DEs for the season and jumped into the deal.

I am sure the draft board has something to do with it. You don't make that deal, just to do it, if no one you want is on the board. That would make no sense. So they kept him, and now we don't know what was said behind the scenes last couple weeks, but now he is gone, and we have the same picks, but new draft class. Now the team can scout, and once the season is done, scout accordingly knowing we have an extra pick.

Let's see what happens now. Let's not be too hasty in our judgement without seeing who we draft, AND what the player can do. Who knows maybe we find the next Tiki, Strahan, or Toomer in next years second round? We can also find a Tim Carter as well, but let's ride this thing out before we make judgements on it.

How long before Shockey puts his SB ring up on Ebay? Maybe Tiki will bid on it?

I will miss the Shockey of the early 2000's but I think its the miles, not the years with #80 and that we probably saw his best days. That said, we became less talented at TE but maybe not worse off.

A couple of things bear watching as camp and the season unfold. One is that based on the skillsets of our existing TEs, or at least how we project them (Boss passcatching, Matthews bocking, etc.), it should be interesting whether our O become somewhat predictable based on TE/personnel packages. The second is to see what happens with Eli as there were many times that it appeared Shockey misread the coverage reads and was the receiver out of synch or messing up the spacing in the offense.

We did get reasonable value for Shockey, if it were the Shockey of 2002/2003 we were screwed, but its not.

trading him after the draft is a little weird. The Saints are potentially better now than they were last year...thus a better record and lower draft picks. So we lost a little value on those picks

to see him go. We're losing an excellent player. Not as explosive as his first couple of yrs but still a matchup problem for defenses. Now were left with only one matchup advantage in the pass game(Burress). If he was healthy this yr the Giants offesne would be much better with Shock.

On top of that it really sucks to see him go to a very good NFC team. Saints will be tough. If the 2nd yr WR Meachem steps up they'll be impossible to stop. I hope this move doesn't hurt NYG during playoff time.

I'm glad this got done now if it was going to happen. It just seemed like the two sides here were just not going to come back together. I'm a Shockey fan (even though I have been critical of some of his actions). I want him on this team. But if that was not going to be, I'm glad Reese got this done before camp.

great post.

it have been better to get a 2nd a 5th this past draft? sure. but reese likely wasnt factoring in shockeys headcase personality on draft day. he was looking at value. he didnt consider that shockey would throw a tantrum at minicamp back in april. BFD. he moved a disgruntled player for decent picks, ill take it.

lets move on, reese didnt really screw this up badly. no one was going to give a first round pick for shockey NO ONE. a 2nd and a 5th is fine. those castrating reese for not having the foresight to realize shockey would act like a spoiled brat are missing the mark.

Not happy to see him go, but it was inevitable. Hopefully we end up getting a key player plus a good role player out of this. Too bad the trade couldn't have been made before the draft, so we could have got those two picks on the roster one year earlier.

All in all it's a win-win-win for both teams and for Shockey.

agree with you...I think it's a mistake to trade within your Division, especially to a team that went to the NFC Championship game just last year. I'm still a Shockey fan, just not when he plays Big Blue

Also, someone else sager than me posted that the team was watching Darcy Johnson closely to see if he had fully recovered from his injuries, and once they saw he was healthy, the trade talks resumed. This makes sense to me also.

1) team chemistry is important, and JR has cleaned house of some poor attitude guys. So, he let this go on hoping JS would chill, JS made it worse by skipping the minicamp and getting in a shouting match. Camp is about to start and JR didn't want this distraction there, too. So, he cuts bait.

2) JS has not had a fully healthy year in several years. He doesn't run great routes.

3) JS is on the decline physically, not the up swing.

4) We have a nice crop of receivers and Boss is not a bad player. We likely have the 3rd passing option that will be just fine.

5) We'll miss the blocking more, but on short yardage we also can bring in a backup OL or a blocking TE.

6) When is contract is up, JS leaves and we get zip.

Personally, I suspect JR would have liked to have kept a reasonably content JS around, but JS wasn't going to make that possible.

I also think as a guy, Shockey is an immature rube. Not sad to see that part go.

neither you nor anyone else has any idea how the players in this years draft will turn out. Nevermind what the players in next years draft will be. The truth is most rookies need a little time in the league before they develop. I'd prefer since we didn't gain anything by waiting that we had them now to coach them up and get them ready. The odds say we'd have players reday to contribute sooner if we had.

The giants may have dragged their feet on this one a bit, and ended up missing out on Jason Taylor (assuming he was their ideal return for Shockey) and had to settle for the original parameters of the deal with the 2nd and 5th round pick. Still a solid return, but it makes this deal even more bittersweet that we could have replaced him with Jason Taylor, who would have been scary in our pass rush.

We'll have these picks for hopefully longer than that

The Giants (sans Shockey) will be just fine with Boss and Johnson.

the Giants went on to win their 3rd SB.

Now that an unhappy Shockey has been traded, will the Giants do as well?

I'll miss him, but if he didn't want to block anymore he decreased his worth to the team.

good post

I need to see that for sure before saying that, specifically in the running game. That part is the most interesting area to focus on.

because quite honestly, I think Shockey will put up huge numbers there. They are in a dome and Brees is a very good QB. Shockey thrived under Payton and now they are reunited. I'm sure during the season , everyone will be pooh poohing the trade. But come draft time? It will be all hell yeah I got mad picks!