NFLDraftscout is one of the best draft sites out there. It's a pay site but it's a bargain.
Under Fitz, NFLDraftscout has a 4.63 40 in the combine. And that 4.63 number is reported everywhere including a recent Wall Street Journal article on Fitz(that I hear is on his official website). Where do these places get that number? I'm guessing NFLDraftscout.
4.63? Does he run like a 4.63 guy? The 4.63 number doesn't match his speed. He ran at his proday and some timed him in the 4.4.s. ESPN,and others, also reported right after the combine that Fitz did not run at the combine.
So I emailed Rob Rang at NFLDraftscout. Here is his reply:
Regarding Fitzgerald... I ran the question by Brian Hitterman, our Sports Information Technician. It seems that when they redesigned the site and made everything is automated many of the Pro Day numbers were incorrectly placed into the Combine files. He didn't have the actual Combine results handy. Nor do I. The fact that so many others are/were reporting that Fitzgerald would not and did not run, makes me think he is an example of a glitch in our system.
So I guess we can drop the examples of Fitz as a 4.6+ WR and top 5 draft pick. Stick with Jerry Rice as the flag bearer of the 4.6+ and over group at WR. Of course, that 40 time for Rice was 25 yrs ago and Rice probably dropped outside of the top 15 because of it.
WSJ on Fitz - (
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you'd think that after watching Fitz torch defenders throughout the playoffs that people wouldn't put so much stock in numbers, but alas, they religiously stick to those 40 times as though it's more important than game speed.
Scoreboard.
Thickones? Yup tanked!
What does that mean? "actually a 4.55"? According to you it was actually a 4.55?
Proday is timed be several people. While looking for the combine stuff there were comments that he ran in the high 4.4s to low 4.5s. This was also on the NFLDraftscout website.
And the point of this thread? To answer a few questions that have been talked about recently on BBI.
Did he run at the combine?
Is the reported 4.63 number accurate?
Fitzgerald 6-3 1/8, 221 40: 4.47 SS:4.27 3cone: 6.97 Bench: 20 Vert: 35" Broad:10-1
DD.comment: A few weeks ago we posted a link in which Arizona Cardinals superstar Larry Fitzgerald admitted he ran a 4.63 at the 2004 Combine. Again, as we've noted a million times, we've felt too many in the media often give out over-inflated (incorrect) 40 times, so fans have unrealistic expectations and start believing a receiver that runs in the 4.5's is "too slow' to be a quality N.F.L. prospect. When, in reality, the average wide receiver prospect at the last Combine ran close to a 4.6.
I just emialed the guys at draftdaddy about Fitz at the combine and the link about Fitz. I'll post the reply later.
DD link - ( New Window )
Some interesting stuff on the link at Draftdaddy including:
Are 40 times overrated? Sometimes.....One scout told us that a 4.5 linebacker with a poor nose for the football (takes bad first steps and angles to the ball) is almost as useless on the field as a linebacker that runs above a 5.1 in the forty....But he want on to say a linebacker that runs about a 5.0 (i.e. Lofa Tatupu) that has a great nose for the ball, becomes a 4.5 (or better) linebacker on the field of play.
****
Be very careful when comparing these numbers to Pro Day numbers, because track and weather conditions vary so much from location to location, that it renders most Pro Day to Combine comparisons in the 40 yard dash useless. For example, Oklahoma linebacker Curtis Lofton ran Combine 40 times in the 4.8's hand timed (4.79 electronic), but his Pro Day times were in the 4.6's.
Link - ( New Window )
We'll see. I'm waiting for the reply from them.
My take on his explanation is they had some errors with the change of the website...usually it's a proday error...However, I know they have some pre workout estimates at that site. I believe the 4.63 was one of their estimates for him. I remember seeing that number very early on Fitz.
Link - ( New Window )
On a totally unrelated note, any predictions re: Giants first two or three picks this year.
Who would be your picks in Rounds 1-3 this year? (Or, maybe this should be a seperate thread?)
That's why some have argued that the shuttles are a better indicator.
Of course, I saw every Rutgers game and believe Britt is the real deal. We could use a big WR. So Britt or a guy like Bey from Maryland or even the Ohio St kid Robiskie maes sense with the top pick.
I'm also OK with a TE in round 1(Okl St kid).
RB? Maybe. 2 good choices at bottom of one in Moreno and McCoy. Both guys I've seen a lot of and I like these guys as very good mid to late round 1 picks.
DBs were in good shape. Front 7 help with speed is always a good move.
It's been brought up a lot with Crabtree as evidence that a WR can run 4.6+ and still be a top 5 pick. I think Crabtree could run 4.6+ and that will knock him down in this draft.
I agree it's about speed, quickness, and power on the football field. Fitz clearly has that. But he also wasn't a 4.6+ runner.
According to NFL Draft Scout, Fitzgerald was present at the NFL Combine but did not run (See attached link). On the same web page it says that he ran several 40's on his pro day and they list the average at 4.48. That is very fast for a guy 6-3 and 225 lbs.
Link to 2004 NFLDraft Scout Combine Results - ( New Window )
Post combine comments from Kiper. He mentioned the need for Fitz to have "an adequate show of speed in his workout". He wouldn't ask about that question if he ran a 4.63 a week earlier. No mention by Kiper in his archive about Fitz running at the combine. A 4.63 for a guy projected as a top 3 pick is news.
Kiper on 3/2/04
2. Oakland Raiders: *Larry Fitzgerald, WR, Pittsburgh
Another team with many needs. Oakland could use help at DL and S, but with an adequate show of speed in his workout, Fitzgerald could have the most impact of any player at any position for the Raiders. He has all the necessary skills.
And on the proday:
Kiper on Fitz
Originally Published: March 22, 2004 (Post Combine)
Monday as Pittsburgh sophomore Larry Fitzgerald held an on-campus workout for the pro scouts.
We all knew Larry Fitzgerald could go after the ball, and now we know how fast he is.
Perhaps the only question about Fitzgerald was his speed, and he did enough during his workout to maintain his spot at the top of the draft board. Running on artificial turf at Pitt's indoor practice facility, Fitzgerald ran an average 40 time of 4.50. That translates to about 4.56 on grass but is still fast enough to keep him from falling.
We all know about Fitzgerald's hands and body control when going up after the ball, so it comes as no surprise that he caught the ball well during his workout, and he also looked good in the individual position drills. Bundle that with his 6-3, 223-pound frame, terrific work ethic and humble attitude and Fitzgerald looks as solid as first thought. He should still be on track to go to Oakland at No. 2 or Arizona at No. 3.
Link - ( New Window )
"....His 40 time won't determine what kind of pro he will be, but it will affect whether or not he is the second overall pick. An ideal time would be in the 4.5 range. "
I think 4.6+ will hurt him and drop him out of top 10.
BTW, Draftdaddy guy said his sources told him Crabtree will not drop at 4.6 or slightly higher. Said it would take 4.75+.
He did not participate. So next time somebody brings up the slow combine 40 for Fitz you know it's all BS.
Up next? The myth of Boldin's 4.71.
I'm curious where the 4.63 came from?
Also, did you ever get a response regarding Draft Daddy's post that stated they had a link that had Fitz admitting he ran a 4.63?
I don't have time now, but I'm curious what the variances were for Clermond and Strong. I think they both ran at the combine and Pitt's pro day. It would be a decent indicator to see how fluffed the Pitt Pro Day numbers may have been.
Yeah...reply was "They weren't sure about his combine".
The article that thjey posted DID NOT have a quote from Fitz that he ran a 4.6+ or ran at combine.
Fitz weighed 220+. Ran in the high 4.4s at his proday. He had excellent measurables entering the NFL.
I found that Clermond ran the 40 in 4.94 and 4.98 at the Pitt Pro-day last year and clocked a 5.12 at the combine. But that's just one example and doesn't really tell you much.