The appeals judge said that the plaintiffs waited too long before filing the lawsuit. May be another appeal as the plaintiffs try to get the suit decided on its merits. Lawsuit on whether the term - ( New Window )
Do we ask the Saints and Padres to change their names because of religious conflicts? How about the Celtics? The Devils? The Canadiens? And let's not forget about the Indians and the Braves.
While I dont know any Native Americans, Im sure if you called one of em a Redskin theyd bash your skull in.... Hell if I was a Native American and heard that term Id be crackin skulls
and I'm not all that PC. I will also say that when I was growing up in Oklahoma the term "Chief" was considered an insult as well. It was usually used in a demeaning manner and not as a term of respect.
Like Yankees. Yankee was once a derogatory name for country bumpkins from New England.
Or Canuks which was a derogatory term for Canadians in the not very distant past. I am old enough to remember when that word was considered to be very offensive.
Or Knickerbockers. As someone with a bit of Dutch blood in my veins, I am not the least bit offended about a bunch of black guys running around in their underwear calling themselves by a term that used to be used, sometimes unflatteringly, for my some of my ancestors from Europe.
Or Celtics, which one of my friends points out correctly is mis-pronounced by the team that uses it and all their idiot fans.
Or Chiefs, Braves, or Warriors, any of which could be considered just as offensive as Redskins by the same group of people.
This continuing garbage is a prime example of policital correctness run amuck, and a prime example of what is wrong with America these days.
But I do know of one case where an Amerindian tribe has embraced the local high school sports teams that use one of those Indian related names. The tribe and the school system use it as an opportunity to educate young Americans about the positive aspects behind the word. And that IS one small ray of hope among all this incredible stupidity.
with Russel on this one. The nation's capital is represented by a team whose name is, quite literally, a racial slur. Its only accentuated by that absurdly costumed marching band, which I think is itself insulting to American Indian culture.
At least the Redskins are consistent--the name reflects the team's history of racism, which goes back to its inception. I believe JFK basically had to force them to racially integrate the team out the pure humilitation he felt.
Its almost funny that a Redskins fan once called me a racist because I was wearing a Kerry Collins jersey at a game several years ago.
They are both terms for ethnic groups that were appropriated by a sports team without the consent of that ethnic group.
Whether or not they are derogatory is another matter, and a matter of opinion.
As I pointed out above, other terms for ethnic groups that were once considered derogatory have been appropriated by sports teams without the consent of that ethnic group and have since become widely accepted terms.
If you believe that there is any difference, you are a prisoner of the political correctness that has infected this country.
The "anti-PC" crowd who just can't imagine another person being offended by anything need a punch in their fucking dimwitted heads. Maybe that will help their utter and complete ignorance to life.
where someone might be offended. What I have trouble getting a handle on is the concept that society should be ever vigilent that no one ever be offended, and if a sensibility is bruised, it should be the subject of a lawsuit.
US Trademark law states that marks which are offensive or racist are not valid and may not be protected by law. The plaintiffs aren't suing the Redskins per se, they're suing to remove protection for their trademark.
If the 'skins ultimately lose the case, they won't have to change their name, but they will lose trademark protection for the Redskins name and perhaps associated images and logos. This would open the door to legal use of those marks by any and all without any payment to the Redskins or the NFL.
But something so simple and straightforward as a reference to a race by the majority as "redskin" should hit the internal editors and something should click without you needing to be told.
This isn't a case where an ignorant politician thinks that "black hole" is offensive because he's a moron--that would be an obvious case of over-PC/ultra sensitive--if not stupid.
But there is a group here at BBI and elsewhere that doesn't want to hear that anybody is ever offended and it is as annoying as that ignorant politician I mentioned.
If Washington does end up changing the team's name, and is still convinced that there's nothing wrong with calling the team the "Redskins," perhaps they should try calling them the "Blackskins." Then instead of dressing in war paint and feathered headdresses, fans can wear blackface and loincloths and brandish spears. See how that goes over.
Most of the Indian-related names I have no problems with. "Braves" are warriors, which is an appropriate image for any sports team. "Illini" are a tribe. And the Cleveland Spiders apparently renamed the baseball team the "Indians" in memory of Louis Sockalexis. "Redskin" is the only that I know of used primarily as a racial epithet.
PETA objected to the Cow as their mascot ... so a contest was held to dtermine a new one ... The candidates were Turd Sandwich and Giant Douche ...
The election was really close ... but before it was finalized PETA <for reasons explained in the show> lost interest and the Cow was retained ...
Seems similar ...
You really don't get to determine what's offensive in regards to them. NO ONE has the right to tell someone what should or should not offend them. I've met people from all walks of life who don't give two sh-ts about silly racial slurs and I've met people who it truly hurts.
I was at a gas station Saturday night and two fat white kids kept calling each other "n-gger" and the black girl behind me was visibly upset by it. should she really care what two dipshits say? Not for me to decide, but it bugged her and it was a shitty thing to see.
I don't understand why people think it's their right to go through the world unoffended.
People have the right to boycott a product if they don't like it, and apparently in this case not enough people give a shit to make a dent. That's the way life goes sometimes.
If you feel that strongly about it, don't watch them on TV or go to the game when they play the Giants. I doubt the issue even enters your brain on Sunday when the Redskins are in town, anyway.
but (if it's true) it's too funny to ignore. I give you the leaked e-mail chain from within the Redskins' law firm, wherein a soon-to-be-fired first year associate gets all dramatic about this issue with a series of self-important "reply all" messages, complete with no capitalization and livejournal-level grammar. Link - ( New Window )
I understand that there's a hypersensitivity at times to anything being said but then there are times when it is a matter of wicked insensitivity from the past being reconciled now due to education on a subject. People's insistence to stick with ignorance baffles me.
Now, the Indians. I call them Indians because that's what they are. They're Indians. There's nothing wrong with the word Indian. First of all, it's important to know that the word Indian does not derive from Columbus mistakenly believing he had reached "India." India was not even called by that name in 1492; it was known as Hindustan. More likely, the word Indian comes from Columbus' description of the people he found here. He was an Italian, and did not speak or write very good Spanish, so in his written accounts he called the Indians, "Una gente in Dios." A people in God. In God. In Dios. Indians. It's a perfectly noble and respectable word.
So let's look at this pussified, trendy bullshit phrase, Native Americans. First of all, they're not natives. They came over the Bering land bridge from Asia, so they're not natives. There are no natives anywhere in the world. Everyone is from somewhere else. All people are refugees, immigrants, or aliens. If there were natives anywhere, they would be people who still live in the Great Rift valley in Africa where the human species arose. Everyone else is just visiting. So much for the "native" part of Native American.
As far as calling them "Americans" is concerned, do I even have to point out what an insult this is? Jesus Holy Shit Christ!! We steal their hemisphere, kill twenty or so million of them, destroy five hundred separate cultures, herd the survivors onto the worst land we can find, and now we want to name them after ourselves? It's appalling. Haven't we done enough damage? Do we have to further degrade them by tagging them with the repulsive name of their conquerors?
And as far as these classroom liberals who insist on saying "Native American" are concerned, here's something they should be told: It's not up to you to name the people and tell them what they ought to be called. If you'd leave the classroom once in a while, you'd find that most Indians are insulted by the term Native American. The American Indian Movement will tell you that if you ask them.
The phrase "Native American" was invented by the U.S. government Department of the Interior in 1970. It is an inventory term used to keep track of people. It includes Hawaiians, Eskimos, Samoans, Micronesians, Polynesians, and Aleuts. Anyone who uses the phrase Native American is assisting the U.S. government in its effort to obliterate people's true identities.
Do you want to know what the Indians would like to be called? Their real names: Adirondack, Delaware, Massachuset, Narranganset, Potomac, Illinois, Miami, Alabama, Ottawa, Waco, Wichita, Mohave, Shasta, Yuma, Erie, Huron, Susquehanna, Natchez, Mobile, Yakima, Wallawalla, Muskogee, Spokan, Iowa, Missouri, Omaha, Kansa, Biloxi, Dakota, Hatteras, Klamath, Caddo, Tillamook, Washoe, Cayuga, Oneida, Onondaga, Seneca, Laguna, Santa Ana, Winnebago, Pecos, Cheyenne, Menominee, Yankton, Apalachee, Chinook, Catawba, Santa Clara, Taos, Arapaho, Blackfoot, Blackfeet, Chippewa, Cree, Mohawk, Tuscarora, Cherokee, Seminole, Choctaw, Chickasaw, Comanche, Shoshone, Two Kettle, Sans Arc, Chiricahua, Kiowa, Mescalero, Navajo, Nez Perce, Potawatomi, Shawnee, Pawnee, Chickahominy, Flathead, Santee, Assiniboin, Oglala, Miniconjou, Osage, Crow, Brule, Hunkpapa, Pima, Zuni, Hopi, Paiute, Creek, Kickapoo, Ojibwa, Shinnicock.
You know, you'd think it would be a fairly simple thing to come over to this continent, commit genocide, eliminate the forests, dam up the rivers, build our malls and massage parlors, sell our blenders and whoopee cushions, poison ourselves with chemicals, and let it go at that. But no. We have to compound the insult. Native Americans! I'm glad the Indians have gambling casinos now. It makes me happy that dimwitted white people are losing their rent money to the Indians. Maybe the Indians will get lucky and win their country back. Probably they wouldn't want it. Look what we did to it.
Where did I broadbrush or defend anything? All I've been saying is that it is not a right to go through the world unoffended.
If someone wanted to name their team the niggers (I'm not going to childishly censor myself when we all know what word we're talking about), then that is their right. It is also the right of players not to play for them, or fans not to attend their games or buy their merchandise. I would not defend anyone naming their team as such nor would I defend anyone litigating to tell a business owner what they can or can not name that which they own.
I don't believe it does. The Redskins aren't committing any crimes here. They may be offending some people, but they aren't hurting them or infringing on their rights in any way, shape, or form. I also don't think that the nickname is indicative of hatred towards anyone.
one of my colleagues with a good friend at the Quinn Emanuel firm tells me that the associate (who went to Harvard and Yale for undergrad and law school) was fired the day after this all happened for failing the California Bar for the second time.
This country is getting less and less free every day and I blame the bleeding heart liberals.....You can’t say or do anything anymore...Who gives a flying fuck about peoples feelings?? In a truly free society you do NOT have the right to NOT be offended ...In a truly free society you WILL be offended...here is an example...
I’m extremely patriotic. My family first came here in 1737 on the Charming Nancy… I’m working on becoming a SAR (Son of the American Revolution - You need to be a direct decedent of someone who fought in the American Revolution) I had 28 Family members fight at Gettysburg, Great Great Grandfather WW I, Great Grandfather WW II, Father served during Vietnam...Knowing what my fore fathers have been through to make and keep this country free it makes my stomach churn when I see an American flag being burnt in disrespect...But, “All though I hate what you are saying, I will defend to the death your right to say it” and I truly mean it…
If you want to live in a free society you have to hear something that makes your blood boil yet applaud their god given right to say it, to say or do anything different would be hypocritical…But then again you do have that right as well LOL
I also think the crazed Christian conservatives deserve some blame for demanding the FCC censor anything remotely interpreted by anyone as possibly obscene maybe.
There's no need for partisan bomb-throwing. It is not a left right issue.
That's really cool. Did your grandfather get to skate? LOL.
Amazing family history. Mine came over in the 1850's on my mom's side. I'd like to trace my father's roots one day.
I agree with what you are saying about being offended. I'd draw the line where a person or group is actually harmed by the speech/actions of others though.
I make fun of him because his favorite team will have to change it's name at some point in his lifetime. It should be changed though. I'm glad a good portion of you look past such an offensive name so easily though. Why not change the Giants to the New York Wops? It's part of our history after all. New York Wops and the New York Kykes. Captures the history of the city well, and shit, those fuckers have no right to not be offended.
... using the term "Redskins" is probably horribly offensive to some people and not politically correct... if so, rant, vent, to to the press, march in the streets, get a boycott going... pursuade people how wrong and offensive it is...
But it has nothing to do with legality. There is nothing illegal about being offensive. Indeed, as a trial lawyer I find it offensive that someone felt he could use our great country's law system to try to impose his/her personal sensibilities upon someone else.
it is illegal to register a "racially offensive" trademark. That is what the case is based on. If the Redskins lose their trademark protections, they would be forced to deal with a loss of revenue from merchandise (since other companies could use the skins former trademarks with little restrictions). Which means it would be financially beneficial for the team to change its name.
Could be. Like I said, I can't be bothered to read anything about it. Any person filing this type of lawsuit reminds me of a child throwing a tantrum because another kid won't share a toy. As a lawyer, I don't especially fancy attempts to use the courts to impose one's personal views onto others. And, more to the point, it is usually much more effective, at the end of the day, to actually use public opinion than attempting to bully someone via the Courts.
Again, to the plaintiff, whomever he/she is... all I can say is "grow up".
Like Yankees. Yankee was once a derogatory name for country bumpkins from New England.
Or Canuks which was a derogatory term for Canadians in the not very distant past. I am old enough to remember when that word was considered to be very offensive.
Or Knickerbockers. As someone with a bit of Dutch blood in my veins, I am not the least bit offended about a bunch of black guys running around in their underwear calling themselves by a term that used to be used, sometimes unflatteringly, for my some of my ancestors from Europe.
Or Celtics, which one of my friends points out correctly is mis-pronounced by the team that uses it and all their idiot fans.
Or Chiefs, Braves, or Warriors, any of which could be considered just as offensive as Redskins by the same group of people.
This continuing garbage is a prime example of policital correctness run amuck, and a prime example of what is wrong with America these days.
But I do know of one case where an Amerindian tribe has embraced the local high school sports teams that use one of those Indian related names. The tribe and the school system use it as an opportunity to educate young Americans about the positive aspects behind the word. And that IS one small ray of hope among all this incredible stupidity.
At least the Redskins are consistent--the name reflects the team's history of racism, which goes back to its inception. I believe JFK basically had to force them to racially integrate the team out the pure humilitation he felt.
Its almost funny that a Redskins fan once called me a racist because I was wearing a Kerry Collins jersey at a game several years ago.
Much ado about nothing, IMO.
Imagine if they really were forced to change the team name? It would most likely become Danny's Boys.
Not "racial slur for Indians".
Perhaps you think this is sad, but its undeniably true.
that some people can't see the difference between Celtic and redskin. Are you people really that thick?
Whether or not they are derogatory is another matter, and a matter of opinion.
As I pointed out above, other terms for ethnic groups that were once considered derogatory have been appropriated by sports teams without the consent of that ethnic group and have since become widely accepted terms.
If you believe that there is any difference, you are a prisoner of the political correctness that has infected this country.
Randy, the same could be said for those who choose to be offended bu everything.
If the 'skins ultimately lose the case, they won't have to change their name, but they will lose trademark protection for the Redskins name and perhaps associated images and logos. This would open the door to legal use of those marks by any and all without any payment to the Redskins or the NFL.
This isn't a case where an ignorant politician thinks that "black hole" is offensive because he's a moron--that would be an obvious case of over-PC/ultra sensitive--if not stupid.
But there is a group here at BBI and elsewhere that doesn't want to hear that anybody is ever offended and it is as annoying as that ignorant politician I mentioned.
If Washington does end up changing the team's name, and is still convinced that there's nothing wrong with calling the team the "Redskins," perhaps they should try calling them the "Blackskins." Then instead of dressing in war paint and feathered headdresses, fans can wear blackface and loincloths and brandish spears. See how that goes over.
Most of the Indian-related names I have no problems with. "Braves" are warriors, which is an appropriate image for any sports team. "Illini" are a tribe. And the Cleveland Spiders apparently renamed the baseball team the "Indians" in memory of Louis Sockalexis. "Redskin" is the only that I know of used primarily as a racial epithet.
Gman11 : 5/16/2009 9:53 am
The Washington Dorks.
....catching breath....
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!
I am SO stealing that one!!! LOL!!
The election was really close ... but before it was finalized PETA <for reasons explained in the show> lost interest and the Cow was retained ...
Seems similar ...
I was at a gas station Saturday night and two fat white kids kept calling each other "n-gger" and the black girl behind me was visibly upset by it. should she really care what two dipshits say? Not for me to decide, but it bugged her and it was a shitty thing to see.
No excuses: Redskins need a new nickname - ( New Window )
People have the right to boycott a product if they don't like it, and apparently in this case not enough people give a shit to make a dent. That's the way life goes sometimes.
If you feel that strongly about it, don't watch them on TV or go to the game when they play the Giants. I doubt the issue even enters your brain on Sunday when the Redskins are in town, anyway.
Link - ( New Window )
That's my only point really.
I'm thinking you wouldn't defend that usage. Then why defend this one? Because there's history in the name?
There's history all right.
So let's look at this pussified, trendy bullshit phrase, Native Americans. First of all, they're not natives. They came over the Bering land bridge from Asia, so they're not natives. There are no natives anywhere in the world. Everyone is from somewhere else. All people are refugees, immigrants, or aliens. If there were natives anywhere, they would be people who still live in the Great Rift valley in Africa where the human species arose. Everyone else is just visiting. So much for the "native" part of Native American.
As far as calling them "Americans" is concerned, do I even have to point out what an insult this is? Jesus Holy Shit Christ!! We steal their hemisphere, kill twenty or so million of them, destroy five hundred separate cultures, herd the survivors onto the worst land we can find, and now we want to name them after ourselves? It's appalling. Haven't we done enough damage? Do we have to further degrade them by tagging them with the repulsive name of their conquerors?
And as far as these classroom liberals who insist on saying "Native American" are concerned, here's something they should be told: It's not up to you to name the people and tell them what they ought to be called. If you'd leave the classroom once in a while, you'd find that most Indians are insulted by the term Native American. The American Indian Movement will tell you that if you ask them.
The phrase "Native American" was invented by the U.S. government Department of the Interior in 1970. It is an inventory term used to keep track of people. It includes Hawaiians, Eskimos, Samoans, Micronesians, Polynesians, and Aleuts. Anyone who uses the phrase Native American is assisting the U.S. government in its effort to obliterate people's true identities.
Do you want to know what the Indians would like to be called? Their real names: Adirondack, Delaware, Massachuset, Narranganset, Potomac, Illinois, Miami, Alabama, Ottawa, Waco, Wichita, Mohave, Shasta, Yuma, Erie, Huron, Susquehanna, Natchez, Mobile, Yakima, Wallawalla, Muskogee, Spokan, Iowa, Missouri, Omaha, Kansa, Biloxi, Dakota, Hatteras, Klamath, Caddo, Tillamook, Washoe, Cayuga, Oneida, Onondaga, Seneca, Laguna, Santa Ana, Winnebago, Pecos, Cheyenne, Menominee, Yankton, Apalachee, Chinook, Catawba, Santa Clara, Taos, Arapaho, Blackfoot, Blackfeet, Chippewa, Cree, Mohawk, Tuscarora, Cherokee, Seminole, Choctaw, Chickasaw, Comanche, Shoshone, Two Kettle, Sans Arc, Chiricahua, Kiowa, Mescalero, Navajo, Nez Perce, Potawatomi, Shawnee, Pawnee, Chickahominy, Flathead, Santee, Assiniboin, Oglala, Miniconjou, Osage, Crow, Brule, Hunkpapa, Pima, Zuni, Hopi, Paiute, Creek, Kickapoo, Ojibwa, Shinnicock.
You know, you'd think it would be a fairly simple thing to come over to this continent, commit genocide, eliminate the forests, dam up the rivers, build our malls and massage parlors, sell our blenders and whoopee cushions, poison ourselves with chemicals, and let it go at that. But no. We have to compound the insult. Native Americans! I'm glad the Indians have gambling casinos now. It makes me happy that dimwitted white people are losing their rent money to the Indians. Maybe the Indians will get lucky and win their country back. Probably they wouldn't want it. Look what we did to it.
If someone wanted to name their team the niggers (I'm not going to childishly censor myself when we all know what word we're talking about), then that is their right. It is also the right of players not to play for them, or fans not to attend their games or buy their merchandise. I would not defend anyone naming their team as such nor would I defend anyone litigating to tell a business owner what they can or can not name that which they own.
Again, it is not a right to be unoffended.
be brought us pain and misery....
I’m extremely patriotic. My family first came here in 1737 on the Charming Nancy… I’m working on becoming a SAR (Son of the American Revolution - You need to be a direct decedent of someone who fought in the American Revolution) I had 28 Family members fight at Gettysburg, Great Great Grandfather WW I, Great Grandfather WW II, Father served during Vietnam...Knowing what my fore fathers have been through to make and keep this country free it makes my stomach churn when I see an American flag being burnt in disrespect...But, “All though I hate what you are saying, I will defend to the death your right to say it” and I truly mean it…
If you want to live in a free society you have to hear something that makes your blood boil yet applaud their god given right to say it, to say or do anything different would be hypocritical…But then again you do have that right as well LOL
I also think the crazed Christian conservatives deserve some blame for demanding the FCC censor anything remotely interpreted by anyone as possibly obscene maybe.
There's no need for partisan bomb-throwing. It is not a left right issue.
Amazing family history. Mine came over in the 1850's on my mom's side. I'd like to trace my father's roots one day.
I agree with what you are saying about being offended. I'd draw the line where a person or group is actually harmed by the speech/actions of others though.
If Snyder is as smart as he thinks he is, he start planning a new name/trade mark
But it has nothing to do with legality. There is nothing illegal about being offensive. Indeed, as a trial lawyer I find it offensive that someone felt he could use our great country's law system to try to impose his/her personal sensibilities upon someone else.
Start out by taking write-in suggestions at the stadium. Then narrow it down to say the top 25 most popular.
Then have a vote on it.
This way he doesn't offended the fans as much as he would if he picked the name himself.
Again, to the plaintiff, whomever he/she is... all I can say is "grow up".