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Estimate: how many formations do the Giants have?

Dubs : 12/2/2009 7:49 pm
Because Nick Saban just said that Florida ran out of 162 different formations this year. He emphasized that, yes, they were formations, and not plays. How is that even possible? Maybe it's 162 different formation and personnel combinations?
Dubs  
Kyle : 12/2/2009 7:58 pm : link
When I toured Giants Stadium in October 2006 (with now-departed assistant OL coach DeGugliemlo, and I just know I butchered the spelling), the topic that year was the vaunted Al Saunders 700 page playbook.

So when we got to the coach's film room, he showed us the playbook stacks and game tape and whatnot, and I brought it up as a half-joke: "so, does your book have 700 pages too?"

He responded, quite seriously, in saying that "while that number is probably a LITTLE high, every team has a playbook that's several hundred pages".

I actually have a picture of it on my computer still:


Also, for shits and giggles, here's Kevin Gilbride walking out of the locker room bathroom:
That's probably  
ITaLiRiCaN : 12/2/2009 8:01 pm : link
how Gilbride comes up with his gameplans.
Yep, he has the Runs and it Shoots it out his ass  
NYG in NC : 12/2/2009 8:09 pm : link
...I know, really not that funny.
wow  
J : 12/2/2009 8:09 pm : link
I want a ny industrial garbage can
That is a neat garbage can...  
okiegiant : 12/2/2009 8:15 pm : link
I really want one of those as well.

Dubs, I have no clue, but you'd think it would be in the hundreds. Not sure why I think that number, but I bet it is a huge number of formations(watch there be like ten).
Gilbride  
noro9 : 12/2/2009 8:15 pm : link
Looks like he had a shit and giggle
Wow looks like a page ot two is missing out of that playbook  
Blue21 : 12/2/2009 8:17 pm : link
he's holding in his hand after getting off the john. Wonder what he used those for? Hope Those are the ones that has Jacobs running to the outside.
Sorry for the miller  
Kyle : 12/2/2009 8:17 pm : link
I couldn't resist posting a picture of Kevin Gilbride post-dump.

The point being with the playbook and Al Saunders: we probably have, if you go by personnel and formation alignment permutations, a comparably high number. The number sounds so shocking, but then you realize its the only number you've heard. Saban could be LOW for all we know in elite college ranks.
Saban presented it as a pretty high number  
Dubs : 12/2/2009 8:20 pm : link
That's my question. Is it 162 regardless of personnel, or is it more like 30-40 with a variety of different players in for each one.
Dubs  
Kyle : 12/2/2009 8:23 pm : link
Assume it doesn't factor in personnel packages, because its easy to see how you reach 162 with different players in different spots. Flip the WRs, flip the TEs, etc. Each formation could have 10 different variations based on personnel.

If its simply where players line up, you would think there are some strong liberties taken with what they classify as a truly different formation, and not a mere variation of a formation, or there's a tremendous amount of junk.
You might  
AnishPatel : 12/2/2009 8:49 pm : link
have a lot because each formation can be flipped. I pro rt/I pro Left, Trips left/Trips Right, Bunch Left/Bunch RT, Cluster Left/Cluster RT. That alone is 8 DIFFERENT formations. You have a victory formation, goal line formation, and formations you install just for that specific game that's not part of the normal formations listed in the playbook.

Playbooks are so thick because they everything! From cadence, to how to huddle, to definitions of coverages, fronts, and each one has a certain position section and terminology. That's why playbooks are so thick. Not to mention 1 running play alone can cover 5-6 pages because you have to show how to block it against every 4-3 front and 3-4 front. Do that with the passing plays as well and soon you have a shit load of pages in creating a play book.
Anish, quick Q  
Dubs : 12/2/2009 8:53 pm : link
Were you out here in Cali this weekend? There was a space for an Anish Patel in our press booth when there usually is not, and I thought for a split second, "No, that can't be..."

I'm assuming no since your profile says NJ.
Well  
Will Allen/Peterson : 12/2/2009 8:55 pm : link
It would be nearly impossible to predict ALL of the Giants formations but I know the answer for when we get into the red zone...

1: Shotgun formation with 3 WR's, a TE and a RB in the backfield

And we run the ball from this formation for 1-2 yards. Excessively.

Do I win?
dubs,  
AnishPatel : 12/2/2009 8:56 pm : link
I wish but no, I was around the area this past week. Went to my cousins in PA. No where near the left coast. Where were you? At a game?
Yup, Stanford-ND  
Dubs : 12/2/2009 8:59 pm : link
There are name plates at each seat in the press booth, and as I was walking by I did a double take.
WAP  
Dubs : 12/2/2009 8:59 pm : link
Not as good as Michigan

Formation: (Doesn't matter)
Play: Screen
Result: -2 to 4 yards
Oh ok,  
AnishPatel : 12/2/2009 9:11 pm : link
That's pretty cool that you got to that game. Toby G. is the man!

Formations usually don't make up the meat of the playbook. Normally that's a 5-10 pages long, it's then depth in which an OC will go. For instance the Mike Martz playbook is very intense specifically the WR rules and section. But it's the running plays, protections, and definitions which usually take up a lot of pages. The playbook covers every possible scenerio, but usually during game preparation and game planning, you install what you like for that week. That's why OCs have call sheets on the sideline rather than walking around with 200-700 page playbooks, lol.
Once I see the formation and personnel...  
tyleraimee : 12/2/2009 9:21 pm : link
I can predict who is getting the ball right before the snap with at least 50% accuracy.
I just noticed  
AnishPatel : 12/3/2009 8:14 am : link
how the picture of the playbook has different tabs for each section. That actually is a good idea! I hate thumbing through sections trying to find different stuff. At least they are very organized!
They use  
dorgan : 12/3/2009 8:30 am : link
over a hundred, but I'm not sure the exact number.

The numbers sound high, but it's not as complicated as it sounds.

Here's an example of how some teams do it.

Base formation call is a two digit number.
1st number is the alignment of the FB/TB
2nd number is alignment of the Z (flanker)

2nd number may be followed by a key word that tips the interior line set up. If no word is used here, the alignment is base, but if you hear power, flex, open, jumbo or load,
it's an indication that some type of tweak in base alignment is used. An example would be an unbalanced line.
There are three types of unbalanced lines commonly used.

The key word is followed by the word(s) right or left.
That tells the X which side he's lined up to.

You start working through every base formation the two backs can be in, and start adding up the possible variations, then add in the mirror of those formations and it's easy to see how quickly the total number of potential formations add up.

I always assumed (never played)  
alligatorpie : 12/3/2009 8:52 am : link
that there were a few choice plays and emergency or contingency plays that were totally described by one word.

So that would allow an instant hurry - up and to either exploit something or get the play off in such a way as to cover (a limping player) or something.

that such single word could be shouted out as they get back to the line post the last play.
looking at the picture of gilbride it should be a rule  
alligatorpie : 12/3/2009 8:54 am : link
that all coaches have to wear old gym rat sweat pants and dirty white T shirts....NOT cackies and a black turtle neck.

He looks like he is going to a golf club...not a football battle.
these things  
mdc1 : 12/3/2009 9:13 am : link
are like college textbooks and phone books. It doesn't mean that you recall everything and phone everyone listed in the book. Use what is dialed up in the situation.
All,  
AnishPatel : 12/3/2009 9:19 am : link
He probably just came in to the facility. Plus you normally change in the coaches locker room before you go to practice at 10 or noon. In the mean time if the HC doesn't care you can wear whatever you want as long as you change before practice.
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