WFAN just reported Osi to holdout...

P.O.S.

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sit the whole season if you like.

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him if we can get a good package.

Bye Osi.

So tired of his act.

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no go on the powoww with Reese.

If they dont get any decent offers, i'd let him sit all year.

.

time!

him if true

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shockey territory.maybe we can get the saints 1st rounder for him LOL

you are, osi

and bring back Kiwi. We'd turn a negative into becoming a better team.

He's nothing but a F*cking Whiner. He's been bitching as long as I can remember.

I was hoping something could be worked out between him and the Giants. Trading him seems the best option at this time. Hopefully to someone in the AFC.

does that count as his contract? I mean, he has to play the last X number of games for the year on his contract to count right?

Clearly unhappy to be here. Trade him and his salary for a pick or picks.

.

Kiwi...

just trade him already.

maybe they still do

If we cut him, anyone know what the cap saving is? Is it even worth it instead of waiting it out to see what we can get?

before he starts losing game checks.

on the team wants us to give him a brand new mega-deal, eh??? That's hilarious.

thanks osi, but no thanks

It hurts his stock. It is NOT possible, that the Giants will budge one penny..He certainly isn't giving up his salary to sit out for any length of time.

Has anyone tweeted him the definition of leverage?

IS HE ON PAR W/Mario Williams; et al?

why does he think he is?

Osi to join the ranks of Shockey, Tiki and Plaxico.

What a major DH, but at any rate, thanks for what you did Osi.....see ya!

Shit?

Couldn't see this one coming

doesn't want to go through training camp.

His cap number doesn't count until he reports, no?

say what you will about Osi, he's still much better than Kiwanuka.

Even though he doesnt get paid, I think we still get hit w/ the cap.

That 3rd best DE on the team argument is bullshit...

Does he deserve Top 5 DE $$? No, but he is at least the 2nd best DE, arguably the best, on this team...

That's his ONLY leverage.

source of cap savings. Yet another silver lining.

.

Time to buy a new blue authentic.

i'd say bye and hope Kiwi is healthy and resigned. Tuck/Kiwi starting ends is well a rounded tandem that i'd be excited about. sad but bye. get JPP on the field more so that beast can develop. not sure why JR and TC would deal with this any further.

under this new CBA.

Pierre Paul needs to be starting anyway and Kiwi gets increased playing time. Osi turns 30 this year so trade his whiney ass and get some value in return even if its only a draft pick.

Quote:

How is the Umenyiora situation going to be resolved? Probably not in a pretty way. When Tony Agnone, Umenyiora’s agent, was asked Monday if his client wanted to stay with the Giants, his response was, “No comment.” Not a good sign...

So instead of a shouting match, Osi is staying home. Either way, he's played his last game as a Giant.
http://www.northjersey.com/sports/073111_Giants_five_issues_to_tackle.html - ( New Window )

really has very little leverage here. The little he does have is if Kiwi bolts or if he does re-sign, gets hurt again.

Osi isn't much better than Kiwi, that's crazy. I don't even think he's better than Kiwi, period.

Rams

If the Giants either can't get good value for him in trade or decide to call his bluff and keep him on the roster (both of which are distinct possibilities), it gives a big opportunity to Pierre-Paul and/or Kiwanuka (if re-signed) to earn his starting job.

Haha

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creepy laugh remix
Link - ( New Window )

but I can't see this ending differently than the Shockey situation.

and sue him to get the signing bonus they paid him back ala Ricky Williams.

Whatever happned to all the "perspective" he gained after his trip to Africa a few years ago?

if he does sit out, and try to force a trade. If a 4-3 team suffers a rash of injuries in preseason at DE, Osi's value would rise.

Adam Dunn of DEs. When he plays the run he can get paid.

for yourself while not playing. f*cking turd.

it's an end game for Osi at this point. He's done with the the Giants and he wants out. The good news is that there is always a market for pass rushers so the Giants will be able to deal him, and once the injuries pile up in camp, the Giants will net their price. Remember, Reese was able to trade Shockey for the 2nd and 5th he was looking for during the 2008 draft and that was after everyone knew he was not going to come back. My guess is that he gets dealt for maybe a role type player and some picks.

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Al Davis on the phone!

It'll get settled

if the Giants FO and medical staff truly believe that Kiwi's neck is OK and he's not a medical risk, he's the big winner in this scenario, imo.

will want Osi. Trade him to Washington for 8 #1's.

$200,000 per game. Hard for me to believe he'd willingly give that up.

for anything they will give.

Time to show these a-holes that if you want out, you'll be sent out to a crappy team with no hope of winning. Have fun bitch.

but our team goes as the pass rush goes...

Chief

really cares what team he goes to.. he has his ring now he wants his check, ala Bradshaw

back by Aug 15 or wearing a Broncos uniform.

centered on the verbal agreement he said he had with Reese? If he is right is he still a jerk? I would think that he has trade value since he is still under contract. I actually like his game better then Kiwi and his medical issues. The reality is that the team cannot pay everyone and he is not a priority given his contract is not up for two years. I just hope that this does not fester too long. The team does not need any more distractions.

day and then collect his 200K per game while he plays himself into shape...selfish bastid.

Strahan pulled this kind of shit too. I would not get all worked up over nothing

Shit, I'd send him to Buffalo.

Let's get something for him while we can.

so I have to get a new jersey (Osi).
Now Osi acts like a dick.
I can't afford all this holding out.
At least I didn't get Plax.

of over reaction considering he's been alluding to this for months.

I don't get too excited when vets decide to hold out.
Osi has little leverage in this stare down.

to only by retired players uniforms or franchise QBs. Everyone else can leave. I figured Manning would stick around. However, I always liked Shockey, so I still wear that proudly.

Absent some kind of huge extension (which we all know wasn't coming)?

I do agree with Matt that this is an end-game move for Osi. I find it hard to believe the Giants will pay Osi what he thinks he's worth, and he's just going to bitch and moan until he gets it.

per Neelo?

I guess he's sitting unless somebody ponies up some pciks and money and I don't see that happening..

and trade a #2 and a mid-range pick for Osi, take the booty of picks, Reeseman.

.

JR doesn't flush them down the toilet like he did with Shockey. :(

I'd be surprised if a team gave up that for him.

but it's too bad that we weren't able to trade him during this years draft for a 2nd and whatever. We might've then had a shot at Da'Quan Bowers in the 2nd along with Austin. Let Bowers recover this year, throw Kiwi a 2 yr prove it deal, and look at a nasty DE future for the team.

He is still one hell of a pass rusher, and those guys don't grow on trees.

and a fifth to a team in the AFC

No less..

I wouldn't pay a #2 for him but did say I'm being optimistic, heh heh.

Shockey brought a 2 and a 5 and his value may be high because of the narrow window for teams to fortify their rosters

.

Giants- "hey, Osi for Willis straight up right now...take it or leave it.....(laughing in background)...hello?..... You still there? (dial tone)...."

depends heavily on exactly how high Osi's contract demands are going to be.

Osi willing to play under his current deal would be worth a 2nd or higher. Osi willing to hold out if he doesn't get paid like a top-5 DE would be worth about half a baloney sandwich. The reality is probably somewhere in-between, but only Osi and Agnone know for sure.

a 2nd ain't gonna happen IMO..I think a 3rd and conditional 6th might do it..

but I dont think less of players for holdouts, or threatened holdouts. They work in a world of non-guaranteed contracts. Holdouts are the price the league plays for that decision.

It's somewhat of an awkward spot for Reese assuming he wants to retain Kiwi. Does he make a deal behind the scenes w/ Kiwi contingent upon trading Osi? Or does he try to move Osi now and then come to terms w/ Kiwi once Osi is out of the picture?

to accept anything less than a second for Osi. I'd hold out for a first. He'll come around eventually. He'll either make nothing, or something. If he wants to sit around and sulk, whatever.

Difference is, Shockey still had a lot fo trade value and went to a team that coveted a Pass catching TE..

Osi, on the other hand, while still a good DE, has injury issues and now might have a image issue..

a team trading for him has a two year opportunity to see what they obtained. He will STILL have no leverage unless he has a right of refusal with trades, which I doubt he has

Shockey had career-long injury issues and as to HIS image, need I amplify?

I doubt the Giants would cut him on his current deal.. almost gauranteed.. He just wants more

there goes THAT jersey..... ^&!$@%!$@(*!^%@$

year, different market, and different GM. Osi has injury issues, and I am not sure he is worth a # 2. On top, of that he wants to get paid like a top 5 DE. That's going to be tough for a GM to want to do that AND give up pick or picks. Who knows I could be wrong, but I just don't see that happening.

unexpected. Seems to strengthen Kiwi's negotiating position.

I'll always appreciate it.

you're right. This is a delicate situation with regards to Kiwi if the Giants think he's healthy enough and want to re-sign him. If so, I'd hope they just go ahead and do so and then deal with Osi later.

The DE spot is way too important to the defense to risk losing both of them. Of course, it's all about whether the Giants think Kiwi is OK to play.

but if i'm the Giants, I let him holdout, and I don't let it bother the team. And I would not trade or cut him. Call the bluff, or let him sit out the year. He has two years left, he's not going to retire. And he can only be a disruption if you let him be.

Osi seems to be an important part of our defense, and we haven't really had 4 DEs deep since 2007 with a rookie Kiwi, a young Tuck, Strahan, and Osi. This year, we had a shot at that.

I'd rather see him as a role player who plays on 3rd down passing situations. He can't play the run because he's constantly out of position and even on most passing downs he rides himself incredibly wide out of the play. He thinks he's much better than he is. Everyone wants to talk about the forced fumbles and sacks last year, but come on. Not one of those came against a starting QB or a winning team. The guy is overrated. He's a decent pass rusher, sure, but not nearly as good as he thinks he is. Given the cap situation and the needs elsewhere, the Giants will dump him somehow and it will be a win for both parties involved.

only trade osi for another player that can help this season.

The problem with that is Osi's current money is too valuable w/ our cap situation to just sit on the books w/ no ROI. That money could be used to retain some of our own guys or grab a key FA.

can't just keep his shit out of the media. Just trade his ass and re-sign Kiwi.

him for a back if we can't resign Bradshaw.

I was just about to write the same post. My brother and I constantly watch Osi run upfield and out of position, leaving the 10 defenders behind him. I feel he gets most of his sacks in a few games against sub-par o-linemen. I know his slap at the ball does produce fumbles but I hate it.
Osi, get to camp or go get your shine box!

he won't be going anywhere until we at least bring Kiwi back. And even then the new anti-holdout provisions take away most of the leverage he'd have. He'll be back for the season. I wouldn't trade him unless a really great offer came along.

not sure too many would disagree with your post

Hope the new protections against holdouts set him straight.

I love Osi. I love how Strahan mentored him and got him to reach his potential. I hope they work this out, and everyone who's complaining about him wanting a new contract...it's business.

good post, but re-signing Kiwi (IF he's healthy) isn't going to be easy if he thinks the Giants are still going to have Tuck, JPP & Osi along with himself.

If the rest of the league thinks he's healthy he's likely to go somewhere with a starting position locked up.

Hope I'm wrong because I want all 4 guys.

But it maybe time to trade him, besides at this point he is only keeping the seat warm while the freak develops....

except we can't keep re-negotiating contracts with a few years left on them, when we need the money to re-sign those who are a REAL threat to leave and FAs, even with re-structurings

Trade him and it means more PT for JPP. That's a win for the Giants.

He had a good season, played through injury and seemingly will only be healthier. I am sure right now if he took a physical he'd pass and some team will look at all those strip sacks and think 'we can use that.' That team could very well be the Giants. He's not as leverage-less as some here would think.

The Giants have a big decision to make at DE and Agnone is saying, 'I know how much you value pass rushers. You can sign Kiwanuka to a big deal with a big signing bonus and *hope* his neck holds up, or you can throw some of that money our way, we'll get you double digit sacks and without the fear of a really dangerous neck injury.'

"and Oxi has this chronic hip condition that could handicap him at any time."

in there for a full season like this..

Dave, that was a good post along with Amish..

I think him and Reese will have to work this out because neither is going to get what they want..Reese isn't get a top pick and Osi is not getting a big contract..

.

Appreciate everything Osi did here but this is a completely different situation from Strahan.

At minimum we should be able to get a 2nd or a 3rd from someone and then we can spend the money elsewhere.

Giants shouldn't blink at this. Let him sit home and let the fines pile up. But don't budge.

they won't..

the Bengals just to be spiteful! :-)

Of their thought process, and they won't be renegociating with him if the hip doesn't pass. But I think we both know Kiwi's injury, on paper (obviously don't know the details) is more career threatening.

knowing this organization would buckle under the pressure of this diva's holdout

doesn't hurt that we already have tuck and jpp's shown flashes

We reach a deal with Kiwi and it's kept secret until Friday when the deals are announced (assuming I understand the rules correctly). In the mean time, Reese has everyone on the phones trying to get the best deal to move Osi. We move Osi before Friday, and then the Kiwi deal is announced.

wind-up back with the Giants on incentivized 1 year contracts hoping to show everyone they're healthy and productive. Then they'll be able to cash-in on FA next year.

I think guys like these are hurt, badly, by the highly compressed FA period. There's just no time to travel around taking physicals and trying to convince teams to gamble big money on their health.

The big money is going to go [ and go very quickly ] to the players who aren't carrying serious health question marks.

Kiwi was a better all around DE than Osi if he could only stay healthy.

You're gonna miss me terribly at camp..As Kinison said in "Back to School," SAY IT!!! SAY IT!!!

Yep lets get rid of Cofield, AB and Osi guy we've drafted and guys who have helped us win A
Another season of watching Reese' brilliant FA crop Canty will make up the pass rush, Lets see how many more big plays Antrel Rolle gives up without Osi breathing down the Qb's neck and then there is Bernard and Boley ...

Ugh this team is going to take a step back next season all while teams like the Jets and Eagles look to be SB contenders

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someone get the kid a tissue.

when they lost out last year.

Who's their D Coordinator? Juan Castillo? Okay.

is the anti Rich Suebert

Mankins is a FA, no?

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FA or 10 million dollars before he would sign off on the CBA.

There may be ways you could restructure his deal to both pay him more now, yet free up cap space for this year and next.

I believe Osi is schedule to make roughly 3.5 million each of the next 2 years. If you take those 7 million and turn it into a bonus (meaning you guarantee he makes that this year) but extend his deal 2 years (for a 4 year deal) you could potentially reduce the cap hit in the deal on a year-to-year basis, yet ensure relatively little penalty for cutting him in year 2-4.

Bye

If you don't think the Eagles will be SB contender's next season.. If they get themselves another good Cb they're going to be very good barring injury
They're not the team losing impact players this Off-season that would be the Giants

The Giants are just losing impact players left and right and won't be any better this season. More great stuff!

Waaahhh...we should pay Bradshaw whatever he wants!
Waaahhh...we should pay Osi whatever he wants!
Waaahhh...we're losing impact players left and right!
Waaahhh...we're not as good as the Eagles!

Don't forget the ginormous "slap in the face" we are administering to Barry Cofield!

Garafolo, Vacchiano, Youngmisuk aren't reporting this.

We should cut him and keep Cofield!

Paul Dittino tweeted:

WFAN reported at 10 am that sources close to situation expecting osi umenyiora to hold out #giants

You guys can enjoy playing the back round and being slapped around while teams like the Jets and Eagles (Teams every real Giants fan should hate) prosper but that is not me.. Excuse me for wanting the Giants to be good and keep our best players.

about as sophisticated as Hungry Hungry Hippos.

has been fact

that was a fine game to play growing up as a youngsta.

Has not made the playoffs last 2 seasons. Players have to move on and new players need to come in and get us better

We'll all be crying next season.. The only saving grace is the schedule looks soft on paper

Since when are the Jets our rivals that "true Giant fans" should hate? We play the Jets once every 4-5 years and they're an AFC team. The Eagles, Cowboys and Redskins (not that anyone cares) are the teams we should be worrying about.. not the Jets.

And the lockout literally JUST ended. Calm the hell down. The Giants will be fine. What have the Eagles done these past 2 days that made them so much better? They haven't done shit. You sound like someone who just started watching football last year.

No worries...you're excused.

sure have helped a ton...Chris Canty and Antrel Rolle.. Good players like Cofield, Osi and Ab aren't the reason we've missed the playoffs

QB, and have a starting QB who has had trouble staying healthy in the past. On top of that, they are likely to lose Mikell, and could be starting two very young safeties. Also, you can say the Giants are losing impact players if you want..when they've only released Suebert to this point, but the fact is the Giants have been adding good young talent in the draft with a great deal of success. Roster turnover is a reality in the NFL, the Giants have prepared for it. Every player you are worried about losing, the Giants have already prepared to replace through the draft. The Giants drafted Joseph and Austin with the intention of replacing Coefield. They drafted JPP as the successor to Osi. The Giants have done their work. They have planned for this. You can't pay everyone, and have a team with a bunch of veterans with inflated contracts. You need a mix of youthful players with veteran leaders. The Giants have amazingly, nearly turned over their entire defensive line in 2 drafts.

The one area I am concerned about is the offensive line, but then again, Philly had issues there too last year.

Obviously doesn't live in the NYC area so u just don't understand the Jets/Giants thing.. If you live in the metropolitan area and don't hate the jets as a huge Giants fans your clueless

please?

I know zero jets fans and could care less about the Jets. Guess I'm clueless.

year?

Can you tell me some more facts, like the next big lottery numbers?

I've got a good feeling
Big Brandon27 : 1:20 pm
We'll all be crying next season..


Speak for yourself. And I hear tampons are better than pads...

When the rest of the 4th Grade loves the Jets, and you're the only one who loves the Giants. You have my sympathy.

The play of the safeties in 2009 nearly single highhandedly destroyed the Giants season. The safety play last year was much, much better. Rolle IS a good player. I think you have an axe to grind with free agents that the Giants pay a premium for.

Also...just reported..DeSean Jackson holdout could be coming. I wouldn't be anointing the Eagles just yet.

What good young players have we added in the draft? Our last 2 draft classes haven't given us much of anything outside of JPP and Hakeem Nicks.. That is 2 players... We'll have to wait and see about this years class but relying on rookies to make a big impact on what was hopefully going to be a SB contending team is not a sound strategy

I'm pretty sure Ahmad Bradshaw had a very costly fumble in the second half of the loss to the Packers. They were down 7 at the time. Osi had 1 assisted tackle.

Do we need to get into the Eagle game?

for Osi.

Rolle gave up a ton of long plays in 2010.. When the Giants defense gave up a big play no. 26 was usually caught out of position chasing from behind
I think it is safe to say his first year as a Giants was underwhelming

Just listen to this when you're feeling down.

Accentuate the Positive

avg 2.6 on 12 carries.

Look, I like both Osi and AB, but let's cease with the doom and gloom at the prospects of their leaving. Just plain silly.

Again, I ask you... what significant moves have the Eagles made?

And yes, I do live in NYC. The only rivalry between the Jets/Giants is between the fans. The Jets have no effect on the Giants most years. They're an AFC team. They're as much our "rival" as the Patriots.

And yeah.. Canty and Rolle suck and were the reason we didn't make the playoffs. Not the fact that we had Michael Clayton starting at WR at one point and half our OL injured. You are truly clueless.

The schedule looks easy on paper?

That is all I need to know.....

U live in NYC and don't know 1 Jets fans... Do you socialize at all? Do you go to Sports clubs, Gyms or hang out in social environments? If you do I find it hard to believe you don't know not 1 annoying obnoxious Jets fans and that you don't want the Giants to be better then the Jets

crap you need an hour in the lineman's pit with the old coach.

He could dry your tears.

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any bad plays. Nicks had some bad drops last year, he also made a bunch of great plays. Eli threw a bunch of TDs last year, but also had a career high in interceptions(albeit a high number of tipped passes). Osi got his sacks and forced fumbles last year, but there are still those who feel he disappears versus the run. Why is it ok to cherry pick with Rolle, and not do it with others? Rolle has had other years where he's made HUGE plays in coverage. We don't necessarily know what his primary responsibility was in the Giants defense, but we do know it was a big change from how he was used with the Cardinals..he was not used as an in the box safety..that was the job of Adrian Wilson. Rolle made a lot of outstanding plays versus the run last year, he had his ups and downs for sure..some players have years like that, especially transition years where they are learning a new system or being utilized in a different manner.

Expecting to get ed reed talent. He is no ed reed.

Man the shirt that gets thrown out here as gospel in mind fucking

.

...got so much better while we've been "losing impact players left and right".

can you please go away big brandon you dont knwo what your talking about at all

osi is big whiny baby he wants a new contract how about he honors the one we gave him

cofield can be replaced and i am nto saying he is a good player but can be replaced

bradshaw has a fumbling problem and i am not willing to give the guy a big contract....remember ward everyone clamored for him to resign and look what happened...i like bradshaw but not for big money

go away canty and rolle both helped big time last year...rolle played closer to the line of scrimmage if you recall and phillips was deep....canty took up double teams and is any surprise ware wasnt as good when he lsot canty??

Waaahhh...the Jet fans keep making fun of me!
Waaahhh...you don't know 'cause you don't live in New York!
Waaahhh...or maybe you do, but it just doesn't bother you!
Waaahhh...well, it bothers me, boy howdy!

Anyone who expected AR to be Ed Reed is seriously lacking in football acumen. That is ridiculous.

We paid Rolle to be Ed Reed and then played him as an in the box safety?

that's all.

For 3 games we didn't have Hakeem Nicks and Steve Smith and in those games our starting Wr were Derek Hagan and Mario Manningham
I never said Chris Canty and Antrel Rolle were the reason we didn't make the playoffs those are your words not mine
Rolle and Canty are 2 players who are definitely overpaid and are hurting the Giants chances of bringing back players who have been very good for them over the years in Osi, Barry and Ahmad
The 2010 Giants roster was a good one.. They did nothing but hurt themselves with turnovers and then that terrible monumental collapse against the Eagles that is why we didn't make the playoffs

the jets, eagles and giants have nearly identicle regular season records the last 2 seasons...

Get a grip.

is overpaid. There's a small pool of players, and teams compete for a given player and it drives the price up.

..

Trying to talk about football with you is like slamming my head into a brick wall.

You're complaining about 2 overpaid players and then you want to keep 2 players who are about to be well overpaid.

Still waiting to find out how the Eagles and Jets got so much better recently but apparently you've got nothing there.

he's obviously trolling to get a rise out of you, at least I hope so for his sake, because if he actually is a Giants fan, he's a gigantic pussy.

In our final 4 losses of the year (Kitna led Cowboys, both time to the Iggles, and to the Pack in week 15)....

Osi - 9 tackles, 5 assisted, 0 Sacks, 0 FF

Bradshaw - 63 rushes, 199 yards (3.1 avg.), 0 TDs, 3 Fumbles, 2 Fumbles lost

Not exactly two of the clutchiest players around, eh?

he's gonna be traded. Good luck to Osi finding that dough elsewhere.

MO, that's a ridiculously small data set to try to assign labels as broad as "not clutch."

When he lost Canty? Are you implying DeMarcus Ware owes his success to Chris Canty of all people... The Cowboys had the #1 defense in the NFC in 2009 there first season playing without Canty and last year Ware had 15.5 sacks.. Have you ever seen Canty "rush the passer" He has no moves and zero explosiveness he doesn't even play on 3rd downs for NY.. 42 million for a DL who doesn't make plays on 3rd Down
Brilliant

please man the Eagles and the jets are going to be very good next year.. I never said they did a ton but your just being flat out naive if you don't think those 2 teams are SB contender's... There Roster are already very good
I just said it is going to suck watching those 2 teams compete for a Sb while the g-men most likely take a step back

We've been over the Canty thing. He played well this year even if you don't want to admit it. The Giants appear to be more comfortable with him than with Barry at this point. Perhaps we can agree that they know more than we do.

for what he is...a solid 2 down player.. you don't pay players like Canty 42 millions

or at least the Giants seem to be paying him that.

he occupies blocks and has never been a pass rusher hes a run stuffer...also he did play 3rd downs and was usually the fourth lineman on the field....your making shit up to make urself sound right...bringing up sacks with canty is like bringing up run stops for osi....canty was not brought here to rush the passer he was brought here to stuff the middle which he has done....go away

To put it in perspective..Haynesworth got 41 million in GUARANTEED money from Washington. That's for a guy who essentially only played 3rd downs for Washington last year.
Canty got 17 million guaranteed.

Granted, his first year here was a bust thanks to injuries. Last year, he played extremely well. His job is not to accumulate a lot of sacks or tackles. His job is to clog the middle, and make the pocket uncomfortable for the QBs. He did both exceedingly well last year.

I don't care how long he wants to sulk. If it does, then I'd trade him yesterday.

doesn't make the pocket uncomfortable for opposing QB's.. He is taken off the field on most passing downs due to his lack of pass rush skills

stop saying he has no pas rushing skills he wasnt brought here to be a pass rusher

I have no idea how many times people are going to have to tell you that before you get it.

And you sound like a huge pussy when you talk about the Eagles and Jets. The Eagles didn't even win a playoff game last year. After our collapse against them, they never won another game. They lost the following 2 regular season games to close out the year and then lost in the 1st round of the playoffs. What have they done to become SB contenders since then? Please, I'd love to know.

I was correcting the person who said Canty makes the pocket uncomfortable for opposing QB's.. That simply is not true

'He is taken off the field on most passing downs due to his lack of pass rush skills'

Couldn't be more false if you tried

...who seems to think that the big bad Eagles are headed straight for the Super Bowl while we "take a step back" based on absolutely nothing at all.

There is a difference between being a pass rusher and making the pocket uncomfortable. The giants strength up front in passing situations is at DE. Canty's job is to clog the middle and simply get a push on the G/C. He does that, which funnels the QB outside the pocket or it blocks a passing lane with his long arms. This he does very well.

last season was usually Osi,Tuck,Jpp and Cofield.. Canty comes off the field on 3rd downs.. even when he is on the field in passing situations he really offers little to noting in terms of pressure on the passer.. He is often single blocked with very little resistance. He lacks explosiveness and moves of any kind

I saw canty on third down plenty, until you show some raw facts, you're talking out your ass.

'He is often single blocked with very little resistance.'

Also false.

keep trying, he saw a fairly good amount of doubles this year

makes a good point that no one seemed to catch..

None of the Giant beat reportings Mike G, Ralph V or Ohm) are evening saying anything about this..

I think Matt SGS is starting this rumor...

cofield was not apart of the four aces package.....it was usually osi and tuck on side and canty and jpp or kiwi on the other....canty is very valuable on passing downs because of his long arms and funnells the qb to teh outside as someone said...again canty was not brought ehre to be a pass rusher he was brought here to take up blockes....how do you think cofield or tuck or osi get free because canty is taking on two blocks....

That statement reeks of someone who simply did not watch much of Chris Canty this past season because it couldn't be further from the truth.

he lieks guys like osi cofield and bradshaw...now i like cofield and bradshaw....osi is a me frist player who only goes for his sack numbers rather than play team defense....

It's mind blowing. Each post digs a deeper hole than the previous one. I don't have the stats on this sort of thing, but if someone asked me to name the Giants DL double teamed most often last year, I would guess Canty first.

games on DVR and in passing situations #99 comes off the field and when he doesn't he isn't much of a factor in the pass rush
Show me some proof that he drew" a ton of double teams"

please prove that Osi only goes for sack numbers... If that is the case why don't teams just pound the Giants with the run on 1st and 2nd down since Osi is so bad against the run ?

Or an Eagles fan.

before you will stop using that as an argument.....he takes up space takes on double teams stuffs the run in teh middle and uses his arms to alter passes.....hes not going to put up sack numbers and no one is asking him to

he always goes for the outside pass rusher and the strip...teams run at osi all the time..do you watch the giants play?? osi is absoulutely terrible against the run

and you think Canty was double teamed the most... For what he is not some overly disruptive player? Never has been and never will be

I see what you did there ;)

he i snot going to get sack numbers....he takes up blocks so guys like osi and tuck can rush the passer...watch the fricken games

If Osi si so terrible against the run and teams run at him all the time why are the Giants ranked so high in run D ? What are you going to tell me that Justin Tuck or Chris Canty stop the run to Osi' side of the field? Tell me Old wise one because what you are saying can't be backed up by the numbers because the Giants are one of the best teams against the run.. If Osi is so bad how come teams don't gash the Giants on 1st and 2nd down every single game since he is so "terrible" against the run
Can't wait for your response .....this ought a be good

situations...are you really going to tell me that osi is good against the run??...really please dont tell me you honestly think osi is good against the run

and often takes himself out of the play entirely when bursting upfield. THat really isn't even debatable. He's not a good run stopper.

NEXT argument

Why the hell didn't they make any plays when the defense needed them in '09?

Yes, that is what I am telling you. Tuck may be #1, but I wouldn't be shocked if he wasn't. The position Canty plays and plays well, is designed to take on double teams. He isn't disruptive because of that. He isn't getting sacks because he isn't a pass rusher.

that wasnt right scratch previous post

Eric made the post and it makes sense..No one is reporting on this..

was coming back off of microfracture surgery in '09.

Osi doesn't play on 1st and 2nd Downs...
What your saying is contradicting the facts. You said Osi was "terrible" against the run and teams "run at Osi all the time" but yet the Giants are one of the best run D in the NFL tell me old wise one how is that so? If Osi is so "terrible" against the run why are the Giants so tough to run on? Who stops the run to Osi side of the field? If not Osi then who? The great Lb playing behind him?
Please give me a good response not just the "go watch the game" cop out

Are you seriously blaming Osi and Cofield for 2009?. Who on that team defense made any plays in 2009?

is below average run stopping defensive end. Clear as day. His pass rush skills make him a valuable player.

there is absolutely no debating that...if you really think osi is good agaisnt the run you are absolutely more moronic than we all thought....terrel thomas was the giants leading tackler that jsut surprises because your right that the giants were good against teh run but that doesnt mean osi is

Get your facts straight buddy
It probably be a better ranking if we didn't have to face Micheal freaking Vick twice a year

wrong thing....again you didnt answer my question do you honestly think osi is good against the run?

If he so awful against the run why don't teams gash the Giants with the run every game... Who stops the run to Osi side of the field
Back up your claim that you have so much conviction in
Who stops the run on Osi side of the field because in order to be as good as we are against the run somebody is stopping the run to Osi side of the field

the reporters have a lot on their plate today with all the activity. That said, Dottino retweeted it based on the WFAN report and he contracts with WFAN to cover the Giants. As it has been noted on here for a while, Dottino is the new favorite son of the Giants to pass along info to, particularly now that DiTrani has hung up his typewriter/keyboard.

everybody in teh world can see it that he is not good agaisnt the run.....

ill back up my claim hwo do you explain a corner as being our leading tackler??...maybe perhaps when teams run the ball they get passed osi and thomas has to make the tackle??....

back up your claim that osi is a good run stopper...osi does not make plays in teh back field unless its a pass...

no one player stops the run on a certain side of the field every play. Thomas, one of the safeties (Rolle who made a ton of tackles at the line, many of which saved HUGE run gains), or a linebacker would make a stop if Osi couldn't. Expecting that question to be answered exactly is just nonsense.

Osi is not a good run defender, he just isn't, but asking 'who stops the run on his side' is a ridiculous question, every play is different.

there is a reason why rolle and thomas were our leading tacklers and its not ebcause they blitzed every play

for 160 rush yards last year.. If you take that away the Giants would been in the top 4 in total rush yards allowed last season.. Tell me who stops the run to Osi' side of the field? Because in order for us to be that good versus the run somebody has to be stopping the run on that side of the field

rolle and thomas were our two leading tacklers now answer me how a safety and corner are our two leading tacklers??

any run stops at all, he isn't a matador, but he is not a good run defender.

gashed the Giants because they got sloppy in maintaining their lanes. The Giants held him pretty much in check in Philly and for most of the game at the Meadowlands. The backbreaker on his long run from inside his own 10 happened right in front of me in my seats. Aaron Ross blew that play, he came inside for some reason and essentially opened a huge lane on the outside that Jared Lorenzen could have gone at least 10 yards before anyone touched him. When you've got Vick running, it's much worse. If Ross doesn't screw up and jump inside, Vick doesn't get that run and things turn out much differently. God I hated that friggin game, I still can't believe how they blew it.

was terrible against the run, the Giants wouldn't be one of the best run stuffing teams in the league and we've been tops in the NFL long before T2 and Rolle came to town.

is there an ignore button on bbi?

you can't simply say that because the team was good against the run, that Osi is a good run defender. The unit as a whole is very good, Osi individually is not great.

Using your same logic, how can you say Canty doesn't stuff the middle? If he sucks in the middle, how can the Giants stop the run?

Common knowledge, really.

if your defensive ends and linebackers are doing their jobs...we all know tuck is good agaisnt teh run hmm i wonder whose side they are running at

gets into a salary dispute with them (like that has never happened before) and we should immediately run him out of town on a rail in exchange for the chance to find another Clint Sintim.

Seems like you people take more pleasure out of Osi being crucified for his crime of wanting more money than from having a winning team next year.

I'm not blaming them for '09, but I don't want to hear Osi crying about a pay raise when he was worthless and riding the bench behind Kiwi a little over a year ago.

lead you in tackles that says a lot about the LB's not your DL... They're clearly not gashing anybody because the Giants are one of the best teams in the NFL versus the run

what has he done to deserve more money?? he is not a top 5 defesnive end like he claims....he has 2 years left on his deal play out your contract and then we will talk...hes a one trick pony and really is jsut a pass rushing specialist

I think from a pass rushing standpoint he remains the best on the team. I would much prefer to keep him in the fold if at all possible.

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In c2 coverage, C2 man or press your CB is the force. Hence if the play gets extended to his side, he is going to be the guy to shed the WR's block and make a play.

an attribute to canty tuck and cofield not osi....

also you realize that if osi was doing his job that thomas and rolle wouldnt be making that many tackles...it absolutely is a sign he isnt good against the run

a solid 2 down player 1st and 2nd down he is good.. 3rd down the money down he becomes useless

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canty played alot on third down please provide the stats to back up your claim that canty did not play on third downs...

Becuase he sux.

had basically the same amount of tackles so what is your point there.. The Giants were good against the run long before Rolle and T2 got to this team

his observations are of the "low hanging fruit" caliber.

Let's not pretend that didn't happen. I wouldn't mind giving Osi a "couple" of extra dollars to shut him up for another season, but if he doesn't want to be here (like Shockey), by all means trade him. That would mean the Giants would have to get Kiwi and Tolly under contract beforehand.

Every year that Osi has started a full season for the G-Men 2005,2007,2010 (besides 2009 when Osi was recovering from a major knee injury) they have been damn good against the run
These are facts you can keep throwing out your ignorant statements that have no basis

who throw out insults over the internet. Real coward you are David in LA

It is so frustrating reading your argument. The Giants are good against the run, nobody is doubting that, Osi is not a good run defender. There is no stat or fact or player make the stops behind him that anyone can provide you to back that statement up other than their own two eyes, and watching the games.

I would love to have Osi back because he doesn't hurt the team with his run defense as those rushing stats prove, and he is a great pass rusher.

individual player....you saying the giants were good agaisnt the run which means osi is good agaisnt the run is not fact at all...it measn the giants as a team were good against the run not osi as an individual....give some stats that back up your claim that osi is good against the(not team stats) and stats that say canty did not play on third down...ill wait because you dont have them

When the Giants are good against the run, it's not because Osi makes them good against the run, it's because they're good as a unit. Osi's strength has always been as a pass rusher, not a run defender.

None that back up your arguments.

if he was as bad as you say he is against the run how is the team he plays on always 1 of the best in the NFL at stopping the run? Osi plays on 1st and 2nd Down also
Yeah he is a pass rusher that doesn't he can't play the run because he can and he does.. Go watch 2010 for proof because Osi played the run very well all season
You show me proof that he is so bad against the run

would you like to come over to my apt and watch them? That is where my info comes from

is impossible, and you know that, which is why you keep asking for it. Showing the Giants' team rushing stats tells me nothing about Osi individually against the run.

just isn't true, and that is the reason why no one is agreeing with you. They aren't arguing just because Osi is planning to hold out.

Osi simply has never been known as a good run defender and anyone who has followed this team has known that. When you can take a minute to get over your stubborn ass opinions that you claim are "facts", you'll realize that no one is agreeing with basically anything you've said.

on the team and only had 2 tackles for a loss....5 of the players were defensive backs and 1 of thsoe backs was our third safety which tells me that the rb got passed our line quiet a bit....osi only having 2 tackles for a loss shows me that he did not make any impact plays across the line of scrimamge...almost half of his tackles were gang tackles...tuck on teh other hand had 9 for a loss and 48 were solo tackles

If he didn't play the run well all season tell me which games and which plays he was bad on because all I have to do is press play to call you on your BS... in 2010 Osi played the run damn well because if he didn't team would've had a lot more success running against the Giants then they did.. He is on the field 1st 2nd and 3rd Downs and if he was such a liability against the run he would've been exposed which he wasn't which leads to the obvious conclusion that he played the run well

not worth it.

your logic does not make sense. The Giants were good against the run because of Canty, Cofield, and Tuck. I am not saying Osi is terrible against the run but to say he was very good is completely false.

wow

He's wildly inconsistent there - sometimes he shuts down the run, other times he's barely a speed bump.

Most of us have games DVR'd too. It's obvious that you don't know what you're watching because your logic makes zero sense. Basically you're saying Osi cannot possibly struggle against the run if the defense as a whole is good against it. So I guess every top 10 NFL defense is equipped with 11 players who are above average run defenders?

I'll leave it at that

when you are outside speed-rushing 20 yds up the field on EVERY play.

Quote:

i am done your moron your wrong osi is nto good against the run nygiants16 : 4:03 pm is there an ignore button on bbi?

I wish...if there was I wouldn't be reading this

Worst

your wrong again Osi had 5 tackles for loss and wow DB's and LB's having more tackles then a DE what a surprise there

Damn smartphone. Ignore that last non-post

But here are the facts while Osi has started a full season on the Giants they have been 1 of the best run stopping teams in the NFL you can give the credit to who ever you want but those are the facts

....ill take espn stats before yours
Link - ( New Window )

the giants as a TEAM are good agaisnt the run has nothing to do with osi as an INDIVIDUAL agaisnt the run....the two things you are saying has nothing to do with eah other....you saying the giants are good against the run does not make us think osi is good

that means the running back is getting through holes in your line so yes that is important unlike you saying the giants as TEAM are good against the run

Your wrong also.. You can see Osi make a nice inside move here So the idea that he speed rushes 20 yards up field on every play is false

So using your logic, every NFL defense that is good against the run is fielding 11 above average run defenders.. correct? Alright.

it wasnt osi making a move to teh inside it was a stunt but thats neither here nor there

in the NFL but Osi has 13 sacks then by your logic Osi is not a good pass rusher because the Giants had the fewest amount of sacks in the league.

You are now basing his entire performance last year on one play. Just give up already.

Osi? Why? Terrible against the run!!!
"Then just put me in on passing downs"
Better check your DVR again.

with the name calling (a real coward move over the internet but that is your problem)... Yes the Giants being good against the run has a lot to do with Osi being solid in that phase of the game.. Is he not out there when teams are attempting to run against the G-Men? If he was as bad as you say he is the team numbers wouldn't be soo good.. Somebody has to hold up on that side of the field and if he was getting gashed like a "terrible" run defender would be The Giants as a team wouldn't be one of the best at stopping the league every years since Osi became a full time starter in 2005
Can you follow that logic

but maybe Big Brandon is just too stupid to watch football.

the 2009 defense got worse.. You wanna relive the Final game ever at Giants Stadium? Who got there job right back the next season? Osi without much of a fight might I add

delete this thread and try again?

No need for name calling.. it is childish and cowardly over the internet

stop calling people cowardly for calling you stupid. If you don't like it stop posting stupid remarks. Rewatch the Giants vs. Broncos game on Thanksgiving from two years ago. Knowshon Moreno ran right at Osi all game long and had his only good game of his disappointing career.

Internet is a bitch move IMO.. Anybody can be tough behind a computer screen. I don't like the things you say but I wouldn't go out and insult you behind a computer screen.. It's a move only a coward would make
While we're on the 2009 season why don't you go and watch the final game at Giants Stadium when Kiwi was starting for Osi and Johnathan Stewart gashed the Giants for 250 rush yards the most ever given up by the Giants in Giants Stadium

I'm describing what you are saying as stupid because it is. Sorry if you're butthurt.

way to put things is BB27 is eccentric. if you are rich its generally accepted, otherwise it comes off as a little nuts.

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Coward.. you know what your trying to do but hey go right ahead I'm not going to get into a name calling contest over the internet with you. I'm just here for a football discussion

2009 wasn't a great year for Osi.. Let me ask you this did you see the Defense after he went out and Kiwanuka replaced him?

stupid. He'll kick your ass all over the internet.

...and our safeties were downright awful. Webster had his worst year since pre-Super Bowl, our linebackers weren't good.. to pin it on Kiwi is just foolish. The defense sucked in general and Osi got benched because he sucked too.

is to move Osi for a 2nd (if we can get one) and re-sign Kiwi. Kiwi, JPP and Tuck going forward is plenty of talent at DE, and they'll all see plenty of snaps.

those are your words not mine....I just said the Defense got worse when Osi was benched
You have a excuse for everybody else' play in 2009 but Osi.. Osi wasn't the only guy who sucked on that 2009 Defense

I never threatened anybody please don't put words in my mouth

I don't really think kicking someone's ass over the internet is much of a threat. It's rather implausible actually.

I think when everyone is in agreement over an issue besides one person, that should be a pretty clear sign that the one person is wrong. But you can keep clinging to the claim that Osi's stout against the run if you like.

You act like Osi is some heroic defensive player. You're giving him way too much credit. The defense sucked with and without him that year. Period.

Honestly, Im a big osi fan but come on man he's not very good against the run. Has he improved last season? Yes, but he constantly takes himself out of plays by rushing up field. He does a terrible job of creating the edge and holding contain.

Why do you think that TT, Rolle and Tuck lead the team in tackles?

I will tell you, The opposing offense try's to attack the side of the field osi plays on when rushing b/c he takes himself out of run plays. Well then the next line of defense is our secondary... TT and Rolle. TT and Rolle would aid the side of the defense Osi played on for added run support. Luckily, TT is a solid tackler as is Rolle. And not for nothing but Tuck would constantly hustle on back side persuit when they run away from his side to help make the tackle...

The reason why we had a good run defense?

Well the DT's were both very stout against double teams and would shed blockers when they were man up blocked. Therefore, the stout run support by the DT's helped our DE's set the edge. That is why Osi's game improved... (yes, Canty had something to do with that considering he started DT next to Osi).

Please don't feed the troll

arcanseanl we agree on 1 thing about 2009 that the D stunk with or without Osi and he was unfairly singled out..
Jon in NYC
I think most fans are always looking to sh*t on Osi more then he deserves because he perceived to be all about himself.. His play will always be scrutinized more because of that.. Also just because a majority of people feel a certain way doesn't make it fact.. I never said "stout" (again you putting words in my mouth) I said solid and to say he is terrible like that one poster implied is simply not correct.. Also this website loves to make up myths and pass them off as fact.. Another popular one is that Ab can't catch the ball out of the backfield which is also false
Good think I'm here to debunk all of these myths

The Giants run Defense has been good because of everybody else but Osi...Give credit to all 11 guys besides Osi
Give me a break..

This is something that is pretty much known around the league.

Thank god you're here. God's gift to BBI.

.

with that last line John

no, BB27.

Once again I am a big Osi fan as well... but please find/create a HIGHLIGHT tape of osi playing "solid" as you say, against the run. I've tried but cannot even find one play where he isn't driven 2-4 yards off the ball or has taken himself right out of the play because he rushes up field right out of his stance.

Here is Osi versus the Texans you can see him hold the point on 1st and 2nd Down and also make 2 huge strip sacks on Schaub.. Arian Foster was shut down in this game and he was the NFL leading rusher..
P.S his first sack was on a power move to the guy who said he just runs up field 20 yards on every play

There is only one run play in that entire reel.

Teams don't run on Tuck's side, so if Osi was that bad against the run then the Giants wouldn't have been in the top ten in rushing yards allowed per game.

you guys are still going on about this? Only way an avg fan can figure this out is if they had the wide and tight shot, and had access to the game grades.

as Sheridan was horrible and the entire defense played horrible.

On that 1 run play Osi doesn't run upfield 20 yards or get pushed off the ball like you said he always does.. He holds the point.. Do you have the Bears or Seattle game on DVR Osi plays the run pretty well in those contest

jet upfield after the snap you aren't watching. He does it TONS of times, and not in only passing situations.

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who ended up on a team which unfortunately acquires talented DEs like a little kid acquires dandelions.

It might be impossible to pay him what he's worth and neither side seems wrong.

This is the same idiot who claimed Bradshaw as an excellent receiver. He knows everything because he has the game on DVR.

It is very childish and cowardly.. Also your making things up as usual
I never said he was a "excellent" I said he is a reliable pass catcher out of the backfield
Which the stats back up

And yes, you did say he was an excellent pass catcher after I disputed he is an average one at best - which the stats do actually back up.

If everyone here is saying you are an idiot..... it may be time to step back from the computer and stop arguing with everyone. Not one person is backing you here.

I don't really care about some guy on the internet backing me.. I have my own opinion, you have yours.. I'm man enough to stand on my own, don't need to follow the majority to fit in
I never said excellent (those are your words) I said reliable pass catcher out of the backfield which is all you can ask your tail back to be.. I rather have my WR run the go routes and the deep post patterns
Idiot lol I even feel silly typing that.. It so childish and unnecessary.. Don't call names over the internet it's only a indictment on yourself

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He went from excellent to a reliable receiver.

And now he is putting words in my mouth.... when I first said AB couldnt catch anything but a screen or a dumpoff compared to many RBs who can run slants, outs, hitches, go, and other WR routes. So now its just fades and post routes.

He is just a fucking moron. Who invites people over to their house to watch games on DVR. Everyone and their brother knows Osi is weak against the run. Its not a shock or secret. But this guy will prove by watching old games on DVR that he is right.

You said Bradshaw was a terrible pass catcher and when I countered with the numbers on how he had 1 of the highest catch % in the NFL you then went on to say well he only catches dump offs and replied that he never ran go routes and Post patterns.. Be honest my friend

outs, slants, and OTHER WR type routes. And then I provided at least 10 RBs who run those patterns and are much, much, much better receivers.... which you denied without seeing them played.

Dude, Bradshaw is not a good receiver. Catching balls within 5 yards of the LOS doesnt make you a good one or even a reliable one.

Now just stop. Please. You have really embarrassed yourself today.

a RB running a deep Post pattern (your words not mine)
lol......this ought to be good

or even Reggie Bush. Probably the two best receiving RBs in the game. They run WR routes a lot. Especially on 3rd down.

Now go fuck yourself fool.

rice, sproles, mcfadden, best, foster, mccoy and others too.

They can catch more than a fucking dumboff. They are actual threats as receivers.

This thread is absurd

if Osi is gonna hold out while still under contract, then

a)he doesn't understand he's under contract
b)he understands he is under contract but doesn't give a shyt
c) he has an inflated sense of his market worth
d) if he's gonna want out of being a Giant, he needs to go to a team that will tolerate continual upfield rushes with no focus on stopping the run

and, when it all comes down to it,

e) bye Osi...don't let the door hit you in the rear

if we can get some market-value player(s) in return, good...so be it...but this whole crybaby act of his is so OLD...time to roll out the waaaaaaaaaaaaaambulance

'....calling JPP...Linval, et al' time to step up