he's started 32/32 games for SF the last two years. Last year was his first at center. But I would think he'd now be the guy for our wide open starting C spot. I like it.
did their due diligence on this guy with regards to study of his film to determine if he's what they want. If they're convinced, I'll have to trust in that.
2010 performance: Started all 16 games at center, showing a feel and comfort for a position he hadn’t played since college while establishing himself as San Francisco’s most consistent and dependable offensive lineman of 2010. For the second consecutive year, was honored with the Bobb McKittrick Award, given annually to the 49ers’ top offensive lineman. Appeared to get stronger as season progressed as he settled in at center after starting at left guard the previous two seasons.
2010 season grade: B
Why he’s worth keeping: Baas showed signs of reliability and reaching his potential at left guard in 2009, but he made the leap to Integral Piece of Offensive Line with his fine play last season. Baas is in the prime of his career and appears to have put the injuries that plagued his early years with the 49ers behind him. He knows the system and wants to continue his growth with the team that drafted him. He also has been a good teammate and stand-up guy during his six seasons in San Francisco. Heitmann is owed $1.95 million with a $300,000 roster bonus this season in the final year of his contract, and that’s money the 49ers can save if they part with the veteran in favor of keeping Baas.
Why he’s not worth keeping: He could cost too much. It has been mentioned that Baas may seek a contract in line with the five-year, $37.5 million deal that center Jason Brown signed with the St. Louis Rams as a free agent in 2009. The 49ers would have to think twice about that kind of money for Baas, who has played himself into the big-contract stratosphere over the past two seasons. If Heitmann were to return at full strength, the need to hang onto Baas diminishes. The 49ers also drafted two offensive lineman they plan to groom at the interior line positions.
Where he would fit with the 2011 49ers: If Baas returns to the 49ers, he’s their starting center, no ands, ifs or buts about it. He has the versatility to swing to one of the guard positions should the need arise, but his home should be center the rest of his San Francisco career.
How he would be replaced: The 49ers would have to find a new center or make one. Heitmann’s neck injury did not require surgery, but he has not yet been cleared by doctors to return and the possibility exists that, at age 31, his career could be over. The 49ers will know what to expect from Heitmann’s status before free agency begins and will plan accordingly. There are no other true centers on the roster, though the Niners feel fifth-round draft pick Daniel Kilgore and seventh-rounder Michael Person could be groomed at the position.
He is big, 6'4", 320 lbs. I must admit, I do not know much about him, but he did start the last two seasons and he is coming into the prime of his career, both very good things, and I love his size.
seem to like him so I will trust their judgement. At least it shows that the Giants knew they had to get someone, and had a plan. I hope we didn't overpay for him because of our vulnerability. Anybody know the numbers?
with Diehl at LG, the Giants should be able to run power football across the line. I love this signing. Coming out of college, this guy was the prototypical Michigan lineman.
Diehl, McKenzie, Beatty, Brewer
Snee, Boothe, Petrus, Baas
Koets and/or one of the other youngsters
Doubt we spend anymore big bucks on the OL.
No way do we go for Nicks.
dude is 5 years younger than O'Hara and 30 pounds heavier! I foresee MUCH better short yardage production with this guy in the middle. Welcome back 3/4 yards on 3rd and 1. Boehner-riffic.
He is the starting center for the Giants. Some of you guys are really nuts! He just started at center for the first time last season and the write up said he was really coming on, the Giants had to see that. He was the top lineman on the 49rs, Koets is a backup player, this is a starter. This was a huge signing for us.
OLine is now set. Beatty is going to win that job, and Diele will move inside. We have some big boys now along the front. You move Diele inside and our starting OLine is 330/320/330/320/310. I like that.
Agreed. I thought Koets had a real chance to start until this signing, but he is now the number two center. Which is fine. He is a solid player. Resigning Boothe also provides a number three center. All of a sudden we went from a weakness at that position to a strength. This also improves the entire line.
and with jacobs our running game can possibly get back to top form.....i love the signing get younger and now our interior line is young and in the prime of their careers
David is a tough, smart, snot-knocking, kick-you-in-the-butt type of offensive lineman that every team in the NFL needs to have for a successful O-line. He can play center or guard and has excellent leadership qualities. David has good strength to handle a player head up on him and good enough lateral movement to step over and help out a guard with stunts. David blocks so hard in the running game that he could knock a blind man into seeing.
Needs to Improve
David needs to improve his foot speed so that when he plays center, he can get out and hit the MLB and when he plays guard, he can pull better. He has to do more work on the stairs of a stadium, up and down.
Talent Board Round 1
David is a must have pick for a struggling team. He does have his limitations, but I think that he will work hard to improve. I like him as a center the best. I think you can coach around his limitations easier if he plays center and his leadership qualities will be best used at that position. As far as going out and getting the MLB on certain running plays, if the running play is between the guards, just wait for the MLB to come to you, David, and then knock him silly. If the play goes outside the tackles, tell the coaches to coach better and use someone else to get the MLB. Now why is it that I have to solve everything?
We aren't getting Nicks. We need to be realistic here. Â
playing center means who plays G? Do you all really believe that Diehl's going to give up LT wthout a fight? Will Beatty is going to have to battle for that spot.
Of course, there are other candidates for the interior line spots as well, because we really don't know how Koets, Petrus, Boothe and perhaps even Brewer will look in camp.
Baas is the obvious #1 at C right now, but all I'm saying is that he could still play G if it's the best decision for the line.
it for the OL. I'd be surprised if there were any more signings. Love how aggressive the Giants were, but we need to resign our own guys, and figure out what to do with Osi.
But I wanted to make sure we at least got one of these guys and we have.
Couldn't be much happier with the way NYG has handled things this offseason so far between the draft and early stages of FA. They seem intent on getting this team back to where it needs to be.
Not having to dodge his airborne center as he's being picked up by the DTs and thrown at him like a bowling pin !
This is great news ...
I know MLB Steven Tulloch is being pursued aggressively by the Lions, but if we could sneak in there and grab him, that would be the equivalent of when we snatched up Plaxico and K- Mac in the same year.
Still hoping they add another lineman to the mix. Baas should be an upgrade over the play of O'Hara last year or the likely play of Seubert this year coming off injuries. Did not think that Koets really was that bad last year after getting settled in.
is that Diehl did not preform well at guard last preseason. I'm curious from those who have OL experience if they think that was a mental issue, or if he has changed his style to play tackle.
Haven't seen many niner games over the past few years,but he looks like a people mover.Going to try and catch Tim Ryan later as he does a lot their games on Fox.See if he has an opinion
(Boothe) starts at left guard, with the idea of getting Petrus to take over that job very soon.
No doubt, Beatty was specifically drafted to deal with NFC East speed rushers Trent Cole, Orakpo and Demarcus Ware, but in the mean-time Diehl will stay put. If it works out Diehl and his contract will be traded, next year.
I'm toning it down on Baas. People get too worked-up on these signing. More than half don't know a thing about Baas. But the part about him playing a lot of ST and him playing both Center and Guard is all true
and Beatty to LT. Diehl was the 3rd worst starting LT for pass protection efficiency in 2010. Giants even told Brewer on draft day to work on LT drills and not bother with RT. Giants don't want Diehl at LT another year if they can help it.
Beatty at Left tackle - If he were to miraculously wake up one morning and have all the NFL LT technique mastered (in his head and in muscle memory)
Andrews at Left Guard - If he were to miraculously wake up one morning, his back healed and the pain gone; (he still has that ALL PRO ability, and the Giants know it)
Bass at Center - Finally, somebody that doesn't get pushed around
Snee at Right Guard - We all know who he is
K-Mac at right tackle - Coming off his best year,as a Giant
#3 Center- David Baas-SF-A former high second round pick who had struggled to put it all together,he enjoyed a breakout year in 2010. Moved to center after Eric Heitmann went down with a broken leg,Baas showed the attributes necessary to be a very good anchor for many years to come.
have some flexibility on the OLine and the FA period just started. Beatty will be given every chance to lock down the LT spot and if he can't then it'll be Diehl.
You're penciling in a guy who took how many shots to play in how limited of time? When he's healthy, he's one of the best in the game. I just don't see how he can be counted on to be healthy, and clearly he has issues with how much of a pay cut we asked him to take.
So with virtually no offseason, late start to training camp, and losing 2 veteran offensive lineman...you guys tend to think Diehl will be moved to guard and the Giants will start Beaty (sill an unknown) to protect Eli's blindside. All this when we are in a "win now" mode.
Nope..... Diehl, ? , Bass, Snee, McKenzie.
I think the Q is going to be Koets , Boothe or Seubert.
both Beatty and Andrews have played LT in this system. Diehl has played both G and T extensively. Beatty is now in his third year and should be ready if necessary.
Diehl is not the ideal LT and has never had great LT feet in pass pro. Reese has even alluded to this himself.
Unless we don't sign or keep anyone else (incl Andrews) AND Beatty severely underwhelms, Diehl is probably not our starting LT this year.
but if he did, I highly doubt he's the starter here. Whether Andrews believes this or not, his best role is as the 6th OL (goalline) or the super sub off the bench. He can't take the abuse that a full time starter absorbs.
We keep hearing about his ballerina feet and tremendous athleticism. He has been in the system for two years. Either the lights come on or they don't. Time to find out what we have.
it's his ideal position, he doesn't have enough foot speed to protect the blindside
So the Giants have 4/5 of a really large O-Line, just have to fill the LT (possibly an Andrews restructure?...although Andrews isn't a natural LT either, he is also a guard)
An O-Line of Beatty-Diehl-Baas-Snee-McKenzie is more of a mashing unit than an athletic unit where you can run fancy pulling plays with your C and Guards
He was a beastly center at Michigan, but played guard for the Niners and was OK at that position (not great, but serviceable).
Center is his natural position, that is why he had a breakout year with the Niners last year. Baas is also a very big center at 6'4", 330 lbs so he really helps with QB sneaks on 4th and inches, 3rd and inches, and can help Jacobs in short yardage
"An O-Line of Beatty-Diehl-Baas-Snee-McKenzie is more of a mashing...."
I don't think we've seen a lot "mashing" from Beatty. He looks like more of a finesse guy to me. Size does not necessarily equate to masher.
Therefore, imo, the reason he hasn't solidified a spot yet is that he is still learning technique, and doesn't have the animal spirit to justify starting him on physical effectiveness alone.
As expected Jerry Reese and the FO have their plan Â
Baas is an upgrade over anyone we had at the C position the last two seasons. He will stabilize the front of the pocket when Eli drops back and punch guys in the mouth when we go to the ground attack. In his prime right now and has added value having played OG while cutting his teeth as a pro. Top notch signing addresses one of our 3 glaring needs. Have to think signing a feature tailback and a starting TE are next up.
surely you're old enough to remember the days when a player at an important position didn't sniff the field for several years. Now it's, he's been in the system for 2 (count em, two f'n years), it's high time he showed it or he'll damn well see the door. (yeah, I took liberty with your words)
Granted, this is his year to step up to the plate and vie for the job.
There are a couple of things that I've learned on this thread Â
since my last post. I guess that those of you who swear Baas is a better Center than Guard convinced me that the answer at Guard does not include Baas.
I also think that Beatty is probably going to be fine this year. It is only his 3rd year and he did miss a big chunk of the season after starting the season as the extra/swing tackle against Carolina. The assumption is that he is likely just about there.
However, as I said earlier (and in an earlier thread yesterday) he must beat David Diehl and that is NOT an easy task. It says nothing about Beatty's ability and everthing about Diehl's focus, work ethic, and willingness to do whatever it takes to rise to the challenge in front of him. I don't think he's going to go meekly to guard by any means. This is only GOOD for the Giants and not some indictment of Beatty at this stage in his very young career.
Instant upgrade over O`Hara. You now have a power running offense. Assuming Bradshaw takes more money and heads to Miami, we should look at LeRon McClain or Ronnie Brown, and Vonta Leach, and morph into a beast mode offense.
Defense's pull in their safeties? NP over the top to Nicks or Burress or Manningham from the slot in 3rd down.
We could potentially be unstoppable with that kind of size and power. Speed? Eh not so much, but pure brute strength, there would be a lot of decleaters dealt from the offense.
the development of this line. I'm not sure who the starters will be - I'm not sure even the team knows at this point. It's such a criticl function of a successful team and one that must work as a unit. They'll figure it out.
and was the guy to go after (patting myself selfishly on the back). Kalil is too expensive. The next most logical guy is Baas. He's going to be the Center for this football team for the next 4 or 5 years, no questions asked. DD is most likely going to LG now with Beatty looking like the heir apparent to LT. He's got the feet for it.
One of his early moves was to solidify the Jags' OT spots when he was there. He drafted Boselli to play LT, and signed Leon Searcy to be the RT. Similarly, with the Giants one his early moves (2005) was to sign K-Mac. The man knows what he's doing with the O-Line, unlike Accorsi.
Something strange was afoot at the Circle K once both Seubert and O'Hara were cut. Those moves were made once Baas was in the bag on the low, then announced today. No coincidence to this signing and those moves at all. 2 injured players were essentially moved for a Prime Time player in his prime at their one need position of Center. Great job. Can't wait to see how Coach Flaherty's work with this guy makes him even better.
Diehl knows the deal. It's the same as last year. It's not whether Beatty can beat out Diehl at tackle. It's whether B at T and D at G are a better combo than D at T and whoever else at G. Anyhow, I thought Diehl was amenable to switching to G.
I'm pretty sure Diehl has been pretty vocal about seeing himself as a tackle. His play at guard last preseason spoke volumes too. Not saying he won't, but just that I doubt he will be that excited about the switch.
Larry: Diehls back account is doing most of the talking Â
I doubt that they resign Kareem next year. They'll just slide DD over to that side of the line. DD is like our Bruce Matthews: he plays all over the O-Line (except for Center of course), and is good--to varying degrees of course--wherever he plays.
The LG for 2012 may either be Petrus, a FA signing next year, or a high draft choice (a la Snee in 2004). Just my read on how things project in the near future.
Can't tell if this was posted already, but here's more on Baas Â
As with my post on Aubrayo Franklin the majority of my statistics and rankings will come from Pro Football Focus. Again I can't use every player listed, so to keep the comparison fair I'm limiting it to centers who took at least 700 snaps, since that seems to be the minimum amount for a starter.
Overall rankings
1.) Matt Birk
2.) Nick Mangold
3.) Chris Myers
4.) Jeff Saturday
5.) Brad Meester
12.) David Baas
Pretty impressive for a guy who's never played center before and who didn't practice at that position in the off-season. He came in and managed to rank 12th out of all centers in the league in his first year as a starting center.
Run blocking
1.) Nick Mangold
2.) Matt Birk
3.) Chris Myers
4.) Brad Meester
5.) Todd McClure
11.) David Baas
Again pretty impressive considering that as a guard in 2009 PFF ranked him as only the 68th best guard in the league vs the run, which is basically the bottom 1/3rd. Now he's in the top 1/3rd of centers, almost breaking top 10.
Screen Blocking
1.) J.D. Walton
2.) Andre Gurod
3.) Chris Myers
4.) Scott Wells
5.) David Baas
I don't know about you but I did see a significant improvement in our screen blocking last season compared to 2009--it looks as if Baas was a big contributor to that success.
Pass Blocking
1.) Jeff Saturday
2.) Matt Birk
3.) Lyle Sendlein
4.) Nick Mangold
5.) Andre Gurod
23.) David Baas
Again, not exactly surprising given last season's results. Also not surprising since he had a rookie at LG (and normally guards help the center out, not the other way around), an inconsistent blocker at RG, and a rookie at RT.
Looking at free agent centers David Baas might just be the best available center. The team approached him last year about an extension, and he does have a playbook so it seems to me that he's lock to return.
to get younger on the O-Line, and better specifically at Center. This is a business, and a cruel one for those who are no longer in good enough shape to warrant a commitment at the expense of the team's opportunity to better themselves. Seriously, AP: go play Canasta or something and leave the GMing to the GM. Help the team by putting in a good word to the players who want to come here if you want to help the team so much.
Ohara qb'd the offensive line and was able to pull well. Not sure how Baas compares to Ohara re: the latter.
It was a necessary move - but it's easy to overlook the value Ohara brougt to the team after he has a few injury riddled seasons and age and the wear and tear of the game took their toll.
I can't see how getting younger on the line, with someone with his size and strength who has started every game the last two seasons isn't a major upgrade over O'Hara.
Baas played Guard for three years at Michigan and Center for one year.
I do admit I don't know anything about Bass, but what I've read here it's almost a no brainer. Addresses a very big issue. We just improved the o-line which was a major need and definitely improved the short yardage part of the game. With Snee and McKenzie we have just transformed from a finesse to a power line.
It would appear they have decided to focus on Babin for now. Which is fine I think Edwards is the better player. But there were reports that a realtor was putting a portfolio together for Edwards. We'll see I guess.
He may be an upgrade over O'Hara's play last year but O'Hara was a pretty good center over the prior years. If Baas is as good as O'Hara was then, the Giants will be solid in the middle for awhile. I also think that Flaherty can do his magic with him and coach him up to another level. If you think about Baas instead of Spencer, I think that Baas fits better if only he can also play guard and the Giants love for their offensive lineman to be able to play more than one position.
Spencer can also play guard and has started several games in his career at guard. I am not saying I would rather have Spencer because I honestly preferred Baas but I would have been happy taking a chance on Spencer because of his potential.
can improve their performance tremendously with the scheme/situation they're put into. O'Hara wasn't known at all when he first signed here and he became a pro bowler. Baas is a guy who was lauded on the level of Snee coming out of college. He's obviously got a lot of physical tools and did well moving to center last year on a team that had a coaching staff that left a lot to be desired.
Very interested to see what he can do here with this staff/talent level around him.
I'd be very surprised if we don't look back at this signing in a few years and view it as at least as good as the O'Hara signing a few years ago.
Signing Blalock or Joseph would be the icing on the cake.
this thread seems like a better thread on a better board where the discussion is much better than "oh noez we'z letting all the good playerz go and keeping all the bad onez". Better discussion and more to glean from it Link - ( New Window )
they attempted to retain him with an offer during last season, which he rejected, opting to test the market. Has had injury issues during his career at times, and was a major disappointment at Guard before being moved to Center. They also appear very critical of the OL coaching
on shortcuts from 2011. Fast forwarding through the 49ers defensive plays of course, took about an hour. Im very excited about this signing. Much more so after having seen him.
The 4 games i randomly selected were both Rams games, the Falcons game, and the game against the Broncos in London.
I think this guy is going to be an upgrade over O'Hara at Center, and not just 2010 version of O'Hara either. Its not surprising to me we made this investment. I was particularly impressed with how he handled Jonatahan Babineaux, who is a very good player, when matched on him in the Falcons game. This guy is going to be a great run blocker here. He looks every bit his 330 lbs, thats the thing that jumps out at you immediately. He's a very very big dude, much bigger than most centers, and hes not a sloppy 330 either with a big ole gut. He's a fairly "hard" 330 as far as OL goes, hes not a guy you are going to worry about being in shape and meeting weight. Pretty impressive physically. I think he'll benefit greatly here from the coaching and the surrounding cast and be better than he was in that shitshow in SF
When it comes to OL, im no Pat Flaherty and i can't discuss technique on any advanced level, but i can tell the type of punch a guy packs, the type of push he gets in the running game, the type of athlete a guy is, how a guy holds up in pass protection, his demeanor and "mean streak". I think he could struggle at times in pass protection against the quick, penetrating DTs, but our running game just got more potent, and i really did not see any glaring mistakes in pass protection. His snaps out of the shotgun were consistent, i only noticed one bad one. He suffered a rib injury early in the 2nd Rams game and had to miss a couple series. When he did the offense nosedived and the backup was a clear major downgrade. Gave up some pressures, had a snap that resulted in a safety. But Baas sucked it up and returned to the game and played well, replacing that scrub who took his place
Hes not some great athlete, even as Centers go, but the dude is 330 lbs. Hes athletic enough. If he was a great athlete at that size we'd be talking about the best Center in the league
I love this move. He has a pro bowl in his future IMO.
AWESOME NEWS!!!!!!
David Baas - ( New Window )
this video might make your day
David Baas Horrible Snap in 49ers vs Saints Monday Night Football Game 9/20/2010 - ( New Window )
The Baas breakdown
Age: 29
2010 performance: Started all 16 games at center, showing a feel and comfort for a position he hadn’t played since college while establishing himself as San Francisco’s most consistent and dependable offensive lineman of 2010. For the second consecutive year, was honored with the Bobb McKittrick Award, given annually to the 49ers’ top offensive lineman. Appeared to get stronger as season progressed as he settled in at center after starting at left guard the previous two seasons.
2010 season grade: B
Why he’s worth keeping: Baas showed signs of reliability and reaching his potential at left guard in 2009, but he made the leap to Integral Piece of Offensive Line with his fine play last season. Baas is in the prime of his career and appears to have put the injuries that plagued his early years with the 49ers behind him. He knows the system and wants to continue his growth with the team that drafted him. He also has been a good teammate and stand-up guy during his six seasons in San Francisco. Heitmann is owed $1.95 million with a $300,000 roster bonus this season in the final year of his contract, and that’s money the 49ers can save if they part with the veteran in favor of keeping Baas.
Why he’s not worth keeping: He could cost too much. It has been mentioned that Baas may seek a contract in line with the five-year, $37.5 million deal that center Jason Brown signed with the St. Louis Rams as a free agent in 2009. The 49ers would have to think twice about that kind of money for Baas, who has played himself into the big-contract stratosphere over the past two seasons. If Heitmann were to return at full strength, the need to hang onto Baas diminishes. The 49ers also drafted two offensive lineman they plan to groom at the interior line positions.
Where he would fit with the 2011 49ers: If Baas returns to the 49ers, he’s their starting center, no ands, ifs or buts about it. He has the versatility to swing to one of the guard positions should the need arise, but his home should be center the rest of his San Francisco career.
How he would be replaced: The 49ers would have to find a new center or make one. Heitmann’s neck injury did not require surgery, but he has not yet been cleared by doctors to return and the possibility exists that, at age 31, his career could be over. The 49ers will know what to expect from Heitmann’s status before free agency begins and will plan accordingly. There are no other true centers on the roster, though the Niners feel fifth-round draft pick Daniel Kilgore and seventh-rounder Michael Person could be groomed at the position.
Link - ( New Window )
Comparing the 49ers Free Agents: David Baas - ( New Window )
YESSSSS!!!!!!
Snee, Boothe, Petrus, Baas
Koets and/or one of the other youngsters
Doubt we spend anymore big bucks on the OL.
No way do we go for Nicks.
He (Keats) is not a very powerful force in the run
game, from what I've seen and imo.
Top C/OG 2011 Free Agency - ( New Window )
Now lets get Spencer (C) and have Baas play gaurd. Or go after Nicks (g) and play Baas at center. Either way this line would be a big strength again!
David is a tough, smart, snot-knocking, kick-you-in-the-butt type of offensive lineman that every team in the NFL needs to have for a successful O-line. He can play center or guard and has excellent leadership qualities. David has good strength to handle a player head up on him and good enough lateral movement to step over and help out a guard with stunts. David blocks so hard in the running game that he could knock a blind man into seeing.
Needs to Improve
David needs to improve his foot speed so that when he plays center, he can get out and hit the MLB and when he plays guard, he can pull better. He has to do more work on the stairs of a stadium, up and down.
Talent Board Round 1
David is a must have pick for a struggling team. He does have his limitations, but I think that he will work hard to improve. I like him as a center the best. I think you can coach around his limitations easier if he plays center and his leadership qualities will be best used at that position. As far as going out and getting the MLB on certain running plays, if the running play is between the guards, just wait for the MLB to come to you, David, and then knock him silly. If the play goes outside the tackles, tell the coaches to coach better and use someone else to get the MLB. Now why is it that I have to solve everything?
Of course, there are other candidates for the interior line spots as well, because we really don't know how Koets, Petrus, Boothe and perhaps even Brewer will look in camp.
Baas is the obvious #1 at C right now, but all I'm saying is that he could still play G if it's the best decision for the line.
Couldn't be much happier with the way NYG has handled things this offseason so far between the draft and early stages of FA. They seem intent on getting this team back to where it needs to be.
This is great news ...
I know MLB Steven Tulloch is being pursued aggressively by the Lions, but if we could sneak in there and grab him, that would be the equivalent of when we snatched up Plaxico and K- Mac in the same year.
I've never really seen this guy play, but like what I'm reading about him.
And he's 29 years old - an upgrade over O'Hara b/c Baas is still in his prime
Excellent.
Diehl/Beatty - Diehl/Petrus - Baas - Snee - McKenzie
With decent depth in Boothe, Koets, Petrus/Beatty.
If Beatty, Petrus are not ready might have to pick up another OG.
I can't even draw a crooked line.
No doubt, Beatty was specifically drafted to deal with NFC East speed rushers Trent Cole, Orakpo and Demarcus Ware, but in the mean-time Diehl will stay put. If it works out Diehl and his contract will be traded, next year.
Diehl - Blalock - Baas - Snee - KM
Beatty/Boothe/Petrus/Koets/Brewer as reserves
In 2012 KM leaves, Diehl kicks over, Beatty goes in at LT, Brewer becomes 3rd T.
Diehl-Baas-Koets-Snee-KMac
Diehl-Petrus-Baas-Snee-KMac
Diehl-Boothe-Baas-Snee-KMac
Beatty-Diehl-Baas-Snee-KMac
Backups look solid as well, based on starting lineup. Koets, Boothe, Petrus, Beatty,
Going from O'Hara to Baas could be a HUGE help in that department.
If we somehow still keep/restructure Andrews and he remains healthy we will have an absolute mammoth OL.
This is a very good pick-up. Giants are young, bigger at center now.
*Note to self:
-Never tell L.T.=Lawrence Taylor ANYTHING
-Tell Eric from BBI EVERYTHING
If Beatty can beat out Diehl for the job, wonderful. So far, he hasn't shown that he can.
Andrews at Left Guard - If he were to miraculously wake up one morning, his back healed and the pain gone; (he still has that ALL PRO ability, and the Giants know it)
Bass at Center - Finally, somebody that doesn't get pushed around
Snee at Right Guard - We all know who he is
K-Mac at right tackle - Coming off his best year,as a Giant
This could be a huge pick up for us. I wonder if we are done with big pick ups (aside from our own guys).
Whatever the case, you know we have a very well thought plan in place.
2011 FA LTs - ( New Window )
see how silly you look now..
Andrews also tweeted not to give up yet on the restructure.
He is a very unique character and loved the family environment here.
I don't think he wants the unknown of another organization.
I have a strong feeling he stays here and Beatty will be our back up LT in case Andrews goes down.
Nope..... Diehl, ? , Bass, Snee, McKenzie.
I think the Q is going to be Koets , Boothe or Seubert.
Diehl is not the ideal LT and has never had great LT feet in pass pro. Reese has even alluded to this himself.
Unless we don't sign or keep anyone else (incl Andrews) AND Beatty severely underwhelms, Diehl is probably not our starting LT this year.
Another team may find this out the hard way.
The Giants ran for a ton of yardage and Eli Manning was barely touched
We keep hearing about his ballerina feet and tremendous athleticism. He has been in the system for two years. Either the lights come on or they don't. Time to find out what we have.
So the Giants have 4/5 of a really large O-Line, just have to fill the LT (possibly an Andrews restructure?...although Andrews isn't a natural LT either, he is also a guard)
An O-Line of Beatty-Diehl-Baas-Snee-McKenzie is more of a mashing unit than an athletic unit where you can run fancy pulling plays with your C and Guards
And I'm betting their pass pro under Flaherty will still be pretty good too.
JerseyJoe : 11:11 am
with FA O-lineman. Ron Stone,OHara,McKensie etc.
Dont forget the previous line group, where Zeigler, Brown, and Parker helped us to an NFC crown.
Center is his natural position, that is why he had a breakout year with the Niners last year. Baas is also a very big center at 6'4", 330 lbs so he really helps with QB sneaks on 4th and inches, 3rd and inches, and can help Jacobs in short yardage
Very underrated signing by Reese
I don't think we've seen a lot "mashing" from Beatty. He looks like more of a finesse guy to me. Size does not necessarily equate to masher.
Therefore, imo, the reason he hasn't solidified a spot yet is that he is still learning technique, and doesn't have the animal spirit to justify starting him on physical effectiveness alone.
Granted, this is his year to step up to the plate and vie for the job.
I also think that Beatty is probably going to be fine this year. It is only his 3rd year and he did miss a big chunk of the season after starting the season as the extra/swing tackle against Carolina. The assumption is that he is likely just about there.
However, as I said earlier (and in an earlier thread yesterday) he must beat David Diehl and that is NOT an easy task. It says nothing about Beatty's ability and everthing about Diehl's focus, work ethic, and willingness to do whatever it takes to rise to the challenge in front of him. I don't think he's going to go meekly to guard by any means. This is only GOOD for the Giants and not some indictment of Beatty at this stage in his very young career.
Defense's pull in their safeties? NP over the top to Nicks or Burress or Manningham from the slot in 3rd down.
We could potentially be unstoppable with that kind of size and power. Speed? Eh not so much, but pure brute strength, there would be a lot of decleaters dealt from the offense.
Something strange was afoot at the Circle K once both Seubert and O'Hara were cut. Those moves were made once Baas was in the bag on the low, then announced today. No coincidence to this signing and those moves at all. 2 injured players were essentially moved for a Prime Time player in his prime at their one need position of Center. Great job. Can't wait to see how Coach Flaherty's work with this guy makes him even better.
The LG for 2012 may either be Petrus, a FA signing next year, or a high draft choice (a la Snee in 2004). Just my read on how things project in the near future.
As with my post on Aubrayo Franklin the majority of my statistics and rankings will come from Pro Football Focus. Again I can't use every player listed, so to keep the comparison fair I'm limiting it to centers who took at least 700 snaps, since that seems to be the minimum amount for a starter.
Overall rankings
1.) Matt Birk
2.) Nick Mangold
3.) Chris Myers
4.) Jeff Saturday
5.) Brad Meester
12.) David Baas
Pretty impressive for a guy who's never played center before and who didn't practice at that position in the off-season. He came in and managed to rank 12th out of all centers in the league in his first year as a starting center.
Run blocking
1.) Nick Mangold
2.) Matt Birk
3.) Chris Myers
4.) Brad Meester
5.) Todd McClure
11.) David Baas
Again pretty impressive considering that as a guard in 2009 PFF ranked him as only the 68th best guard in the league vs the run, which is basically the bottom 1/3rd. Now he's in the top 1/3rd of centers, almost breaking top 10.
Screen Blocking
1.) J.D. Walton
2.) Andre Gurod
3.) Chris Myers
4.) Scott Wells
5.) David Baas
I don't know about you but I did see a significant improvement in our screen blocking last season compared to 2009--it looks as if Baas was a big contributor to that success.
Pass Blocking
1.) Jeff Saturday
2.) Matt Birk
3.) Lyle Sendlein
4.) Nick Mangold
5.) Andre Gurod
23.) David Baas
Again, not exactly surprising given last season's results. Also not surprising since he had a rookie at LG (and normally guards help the center out, not the other way around), an inconsistent blocker at RG, and a rookie at RT.
Looking at free agent centers David Baas might just be the best available center. The team approached him last year about an extension, and he does have a playbook so it seems to me that he's lock to return.
Ten Ton Hammer : 12:05 pm
That "rookie at LG" referred to in your latter post was Mike Iupati, whom I'm sure without checking made the all-rookie team for 2010....
Are we getting an OG or is it set
Diehl-Booth-Baas-Snee-McK
Also, the follow up post wasn't written by me. It was an article excerpt.
Ohara qb'd the offensive line and was able to pull well. Not sure how Baas compares to Ohara re: the latter.
It was a necessary move - but it's easy to overlook the value Ohara brougt to the team after he has a few injury riddled seasons and age and the wear and tear of the game took their toll.
Baas played Guard for three years at Michigan and Center for one year.
Don't forget that Petreus is a decent backup.
Info on Baas at Michigan - ( New Window )
Very interested to see what he can do here with this staff/talent level around him.
I'd be very surprised if we don't look back at this signing in a few years and view it as at least as good as the O'Hara signing a few years ago.
Signing Blalock or Joseph would be the icing on the cake.
Link - ( New Window )
Link - ( New Window )
I wonder what this contract looks like.
The 4 games i randomly selected were both Rams games, the Falcons game, and the game against the Broncos in London.
I think this guy is going to be an upgrade over O'Hara at Center, and not just 2010 version of O'Hara either. Its not surprising to me we made this investment. I was particularly impressed with how he handled Jonatahan Babineaux, who is a very good player, when matched on him in the Falcons game. This guy is going to be a great run blocker here. He looks every bit his 330 lbs, thats the thing that jumps out at you immediately. He's a very very big dude, much bigger than most centers, and hes not a sloppy 330 either with a big ole gut. He's a fairly "hard" 330 as far as OL goes, hes not a guy you are going to worry about being in shape and meeting weight. Pretty impressive physically. I think he'll benefit greatly here from the coaching and the surrounding cast and be better than he was in that shitshow in SF
When it comes to OL, im no Pat Flaherty and i can't discuss technique on any advanced level, but i can tell the type of punch a guy packs, the type of push he gets in the running game, the type of athlete a guy is, how a guy holds up in pass protection, his demeanor and "mean streak". I think he could struggle at times in pass protection against the quick, penetrating DTs, but our running game just got more potent, and i really did not see any glaring mistakes in pass protection. His snaps out of the shotgun were consistent, i only noticed one bad one. He suffered a rib injury early in the 2nd Rams game and had to miss a couple series. When he did the offense nosedived and the backup was a clear major downgrade. Gave up some pressures, had a snap that resulted in a safety. But Baas sucked it up and returned to the game and played well, replacing that scrub who took his place
Hes not some great athlete, even as Centers go, but the dude is 330 lbs. Hes athletic enough. If he was a great athlete at that size we'd be talking about the best Center in the league
I love this move. He has a pro bowl in his future IMO.