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Carl Banks on the LB'rs in Camp

muhajir : 8/10/2011 1:46 pm
Really good interview with Banks on 660. He said he's been keying in on the LB'r in camp and had some insightful observations;

Greg Jones: Prefaced his comments by saying this has nothing to do with the Michigan connection but that Greg looks like he has great LB'r instincts. Does not waste even one step before moving to the ball. He sees the play developing and hits the hole immediately.

Dilliard: Said right now, he's "just a guy" and doesn't expect him to give Goff any competition at the MLB spot.

Kiwi: Said Kiwanuka has been penciled in as the starting SSLB but still has to develop LB'r instincts (mentioned LB'r instincts a few times with regards to Kiwi .) Said he was never used to moving backwards during College and that he has to continue to get comfortable doing so. He said that every single snap he wastes 1 or 2 steps before heading to the ball. He needs to improve his ability to diagnose plays at the LOS and start making the play. Said he is big and runs like a deer out there though.

Jacquian Williams: Said this kid is a freak. Looks like a young Derrick Thomas at LB'r. Still a "ball in tall grass" at this point (needs some time to develop.)

Banks said that the most impressive LB'r in camp so far to his eyes has been..........drum roll please........... Mr. Cint Sintim.

He said he has been playing great all camp. Playing with a purpose...like a man on a mission to start this season. He also said that he fully expects Sintim to give Kiwi a run for his money on that starting LBr spot before all is said and done.

I paraphrased all of this from memory. Please feel free to fill in anything missed.
WILLIAMS  
enjayray : 8/10/2011 1:48 pm : link
said it as soon as the draft was over ... this kid is armstead 2.0
Pretty excited  
AnotherGiantsFan : 8/10/2011 1:49 pm : link
to see what these linebackers do and with all the competition going around. I knew from the second that Phillip Dillard was going to be a horrible pick.
While I'm still down on Sintim,  
Exit 172 : 8/10/2011 1:50 pm : link
what a massive double win it would be if Sintim were eventually to take the SAM away from Kiwi.

It would mean great things about Sintim, and it would put Kiwi back in the DE rotation.
No, Derrick Thomas!  
Curtis in MD : 8/10/2011 1:50 pm : link
.
Did he say anything about Kenny Ingram?  
Curtis in MD : 8/10/2011 1:51 pm : link
.
Very interesting indeed from Carl.  
BlueLou : 8/10/2011 1:51 pm : link
Thanks for posting it.
No mention  
muhajir : 8/10/2011 1:52 pm : link
of Ingram.
It seems that person after person  
Sneakers O'toole : 8/10/2011 1:52 pm : link
who has seen camp have commented on both Jones and Sintim, it's been a recurring theme. I can't wait for Saturday! I want to see these guys play ball!
If Sintim does play at least as well as Kiwi...  
manh george : 8/10/2011 1:52 pm : link
does Kiwi get some snaps on first and second down at DE?

At the very least, this would give the Giants additional protection against a DE injury (assuming the Osi situation gets resolved).
curtis  
enjayray : 8/10/2011 1:52 pm : link
i'll settle for Derrick Thomas, that's fine.
Is there any chance that it is Boley  
TommytheElephant : 8/10/2011 1:53 pm : link
who is on the outside looking in?
Or is that just crazy talk?
Carl knows  
dorgan : 8/10/2011 1:54 pm : link
what it takes to play the position, but analyzing performance in drills can be misleading. You have to see what happens when the shooting starts.

manh george  
Sneakers O'toole : 8/10/2011 1:56 pm : link
it's a good question, and certainly an option that is always open to them. To be honest, I was a bit surprised they made such a definitive statememnt about Kiwi playing at the LB spot. Even if it was their thinking, I was surprised to hear them come right out and say it.
Tommy  
muhajir : 8/10/2011 1:57 pm : link
He said he likes Boley a lot and that he was very solid for us last season especially down the stretch. Didn't mention how he's doing in camp though.
tommy  
enjayray : 8/10/2011 1:57 pm : link
not this year ... but i do think williams is our future at WLB , wouldn't even be suprised if he's pushing for the job by 2012

great to here about sintim too ... the guy i'm watching closely this preseason is tracy
Did he mention  
JCin332 : 8/10/2011 1:57 pm : link
Herzlich?
I think Kiwi at LB does multiple things for this defense  
steve56 : 8/10/2011 1:57 pm : link
and it also encourages sintim to work harder every day to earn that starting spot. I believe the veteran presence ahead of him (kiwi) will give sintim the extra drive to earn that spot. Side note, if sintim cannot beat out Kiwi then we can make def label him a bust
Tommy  
BLUATHRT : 8/10/2011 1:59 pm : link
I think he has it sealed, at least for the begining of the year. AS the young guys develop and get more playing time, I could see Jones taking the role over from Boley.
It would be absolutely great if Sintim could contribute.  
Vin_Cuccs : 8/10/2011 1:59 pm : link
Dillard info is discouraging. I was actually thinking about this last night: I have not heard one word about Dillard since training camp started and I wonder if he could be a possible cut.
Sintim:  
Randy in CT : 8/10/2011 2:01 pm : link
I love being right.
Good to hear about Jones.  
Beez : 8/10/2011 2:02 pm : link
Excited about this kid.
Im scared we lost some on these LB's  
TommytheElephant : 8/10/2011 2:02 pm : link
Who is on the outside looking in?
but wait  
Semipro Lineman : 8/10/2011 2:03 pm : link
he didn't accuse them of playing without passion. How dare he bring some insight and useful observation to the table without prefacing it with some mindless headline grabbing cliche...
JC no  
muhajir : 8/10/2011 2:03 pm : link
mention of Herzlic
Like what I'm hearing about Gre Jones thus far  
nyjuggernaut : 8/10/2011 2:05 pm : link
Giants need a vocal leader on defense as no one has really stepped into that role since Strahan and AP retired. Jones sounds like a guy who could one day become that type of leader for this defense.

A future LB corp of Herzlich-Jones-Williams would be ideal if all three reach their potential.
lets not forget about  
hawaiiangiant : 8/10/2011 2:11 pm : link
adrian tracy
The Dilliard news is not so discouraging,  
barens : 8/10/2011 2:14 pm : link
because there seems to be plenty of good players willing to take his spot if he's "just a guy".
Paysinger and Ingram look to be the odd men out  
Optimus-NY : 8/10/2011 2:14 pm : link
That gives them how many bodies then?

Boley
Williams
Goff
Jones
Dillard
Sintim
Tracy
Herzlich

*Kiwi (he can be counted as either a LB or DE)
*DeOssie (I'm not counting him at all since he's just a Snapper at this point)


That leaves the Giants with 8 LBs, not counting Kiwi. In a 4-3, you usually keep one less LB than you would in a 3-4. The final number of LBs on roster in such a situation would be 7 or 8, but usually 7. It looks like one or maybe even 2 of those listed above won't be on the opening day roster.

Last year Tracy was in effect red-shirted when the Giants stashed him on IR. Herzlich may be a candidate for that this year just looking at how the numbers and game plays out in a logistical sense. The same may apply to Williams, but the Giants are super thing at Boley's WLB spot, even though technically in the Giants' system he's a SAM (whatever...).

Dillard looks like he might be a candidate to be outright cut, but that would leave Greg Jones as the primary backup at MLB for Goff, which isn't the smartest move to make because of the lack of classroom study time due to the lockout. Gonna be interesting to see how the roster shapes up come Final Cuts time with regard to the LBs.
Yea  
NVA_Blue : 8/10/2011 2:19 pm : link
i can see them cutting bait with Dillard. He really hasnt shown anything since he was drafted. Move along
Muhajir  
Jay in Toronto : 8/10/2011 2:23 pm : link
excellent thanks, though I think you meant Michigan State so only an A- ;)

I think it's a bit premature to bubble some guys, though Tracy was not so enthusiastically spoken about by TC whereas Paysinger (sp?) was.

MY UVA contact who knows the team well was extremely high on Sintim, so we'll see.

My hope is that Jacquian Williams is at least a ST beast to keep him on the roster and learn the LB position.
I really believe  
AnotherGiantsFan : 8/10/2011 2:23 pm : link
the giants will cut Phillip Dillard and rightfully so, he was nothing more than a decent LB in Nebraska and he was playing behind Suh...he has no real potential to be a starter for us im sorry to say it...
Optimus, I was listening to Pat Kirwan and Tim Ryan about a month ago,  
barens : 8/10/2011 2:24 pm : link
and they mentioned Greg Jones as one of the few rookies the Giants have, or any team could have, that they would have no problem putting him in the lineup if need be this year, because he played in the Big Ten, was super productive, and started for many years.
Great seeing  
Syphernix : 8/10/2011 2:33 pm : link
that, I really hope sintim earns his place as the starter something still kinda irks me about having kiwi in coverage
Besides feel good stories  
Mason : 8/10/2011 2:35 pm : link
about Herzlich about his recovery, how is that being translated to the football field? I keep hearing about what Paysinger, Ingram, Jones, Williams and Sintim are doing on the field in these drills but when it comes to Herzlich it seems to be more about his recovery and past performance. I like a feel good story as the next guy but I don't want that to take away from more capable players that are productive.
No one has mentioned  
CT Charlie : 8/10/2011 2:36 pm : link
special teams play...
Why  
NJGiantFan84 : 8/10/2011 2:41 pm : link
is Kiwi moving to LB if Sintim has looked so good? It doesn't make sense to me. I assumed Kiwi was moving because Sintim was underwhelming the staff.
I think Sintim is going to have to show that he can actually  
Curtis in MD : 8/10/2011 2:43 pm : link
be relied on during game time to make plays before they hand him the job. Kiwi has already proven he can do it. Sintim's really gonna have to earn it.
Herzlich has been mentioned a few times,  
Curtis in MD : 8/10/2011 2:44 pm : link
plugging lanes and popping Hynosky I believe.
Kiwi  
NJGiantFan84 : 8/10/2011 2:46 pm : link
needs time to develop at that position as well, which takes away from him developing further at his natural position. My point is, if Kiwi is not switching permanently or at least for this season, I really don't agree with switching him to LB at all.
The point is to have the best players on the field at one time.  
Curtis in MD : 8/10/2011 2:48 pm : link
Right now, Kiwi is the better player than Sintim... Until Sintim proves otherwise. A lot can happen over the next few weeks as we get into the preseason.
I believe it when I see Sintim...  
BillKo : 8/10/2011 2:51 pm : link
do it during an actual game.

There are pratice players, and game day guys. He needs to do it on game day.
Since Kirwan had already been mrntioned here  
BigBlueBuff : 8/10/2011 2:52 pm : link
I should mention one of his nuggets of wisdom: Saturday, check and see which linebackers are on punt coverage. That will tell us a lot about the current pecking order at that position.
good stuff barens  
Optimus-NY : 8/10/2011 3:02 pm : link
I always enjoy those two. Intelligent football discussion is usually NOT on the menu for terrestrial radio, especially WFAN or 1050-BSPN.

Greg Jones is the classic example of a player who embodies production over measurables as Tom Boisture used to say (paraphrasing here). Glad to hear Kirwin and Ryan be high on him. I haven't been listening to them as much as I used to due to school and all, but I have to catch up.
Thanks BigBlueBuff  
Optimus-NY : 8/10/2011 3:03 pm : link
I'm going to look for that.
Curtis  
Blue Baller : 8/10/2011 3:05 pm : link
I believe it was the other way around (Hynoski popped Herz)

Banks doesn't sugarcoat anything...  
Klaatu : 8/10/2011 3:12 pm : link
Especially when it comes to linebackers.
Baller,  
Curtis in MD : 8/10/2011 3:13 pm : link
you're probably right.
Why Kiwi at linebacker  
rvwnk : 8/10/2011 3:13 pm : link
Perhaps JPP looking like a very promising contributor at DE this year, might have caused Osi to decide that he needed to lock in a raise before the season began and before he might be only sharing his starting position with JPP. One of the reasons that Kiwi was shifted to linebacker, might be to avoid threatening Osi's playing time.

Once Osi is signed up for the season, the Giants can always say that Clint is playing exceptionally well, and decide to give Kiwi more time at Defensive End. The problem is that if we have 4 quality defensive ends, somebody like JPP, Kiwi or Osi could be unable to get as much playing time as they think they deserve. Kiwi will likely play linebacker at least on short yardage situations to increase Osi's playing time and Kiwi's playing time.
I don't know if Ingram and Paysinger are the odd men out.  
Vin_Cuccs : 8/10/2011 3:13 pm : link
Ingram is having a much better camp than Dillard.

Paysinger was having a better camp than Dillard up until his injury.
I've never really had high hopes for Dillard.  
arcarsenal : 8/10/2011 3:16 pm : link
I can't see him cracking the rotation anytime soon. Very encouraging news on Sintim.. surprising, too.

What Banks said about Jones pretty much echoes my sentiments.. he just seems like a very NFL ready player. Not a freak athlete but his instincts are excellent and it should translate well to the pro level.

I don't think Boley is in any danger of losing his job. He's a good player.
Buff, yep  
JonC : 8/10/2011 3:16 pm : link
I expect Paysinger, Williams, and Ingram to be cuts. Dillard might be a casualty to make room for one of them. I'm expecting Herzlich and Jones to make the team.
I'm not sure if Williams will get cut.  
arcarsenal : 8/10/2011 3:19 pm : link
I think they took him knowing that he was going to be a bit of a project... I'd be surprised if they cut bait right away.

Ingram, on the other hand.. I expect he'll be cut. Paysinger probably doesn't have much chance, either. I wouldn't really be shocked if they let Dillard go.
dorgan, yup. Amazing how many fail to grasp that  
Big Blue '56 : 8/10/2011 3:19 pm : link
Quote:
Carl knows

dorgan : 1:54 pm

what it takes to play the position, but analyzing performance in drills can be misleading. You have to see what happens when the shooting starts.

of that group Williams probably has the best shot to stick  
JonC : 8/10/2011 3:20 pm : link
.
if JW and Dillard make it  
JonC : 8/10/2011 3:21 pm : link
along with Tracy, then we're already at 8+ Kiwi and Deossie, me thinks.
I would also assume Williams would be able to be a ST guy...  
arcarsenal : 8/10/2011 3:21 pm : link
Given his excellent athleticism.
arc  
JonC : 8/10/2011 3:23 pm : link
Understood but then you have to project who's cut for that spot to be open, knowing they often keep the vet or rookie from a big school program etc.
Yeah, it's going to be tough at the bottom...  
arcarsenal : 8/10/2011 3:26 pm : link
Because there are a few guys who are developmental types. They're going to have to decide on a couple guys based on potential alone. I'm not too sold on Dillard making it.. I also like Tracy but he could wind up being cut as well.

I will say that I like our chances of coming away with a few quality players from this group.
Maybe just maybe if this trend continues.....  
Torrag : 8/10/2011 3:36 pm : link
We'll get some LB's contributing for a change. The unit has been an embarassment since'07 when we got good play from AP and Kawika Mitchell. Way overdue for all these draft picks we've invested to start paying dividends.
.  
alligatorpie : 8/10/2011 3:39 pm : link
dillard could be practice squad.

boley could be a surprise cut due to cap and items, age- lack of additional upside.

MLB- in certain pash rush schemes, with the MLB needing to run downhill anyway, there is no reason Kiwi or Sintim couldn't line up in the middle. what is being called 3rd down all bets are off stuff.

look for the team to keep young players in this unit as they look for longterm upsides.
dorgan -  
Exit 172 : 8/10/2011 3:50 pm : link
"You have to see what happens when the shooting starts."

Plax signed with the Jets, not us.
if you think Boley is getting cut  
Blue Blood : 8/10/2011 4:03 pm : link
your totally clueless
Just listened to the interview on WFAN from Banks  
Mason : 8/10/2011 5:14 pm : link
Herzlich was the first LB they talked about since Beningo brought him up first. Carl said he wasn't NFL ready when asked if will be something. Basically said nice story but I got the feeling he wasn't high on him. OP had the rest on point. good job.

It seems that is the feeling on Herzlich from other reports that I read. It normally feels more like 'hey lets do this fluff piece first' and then they go on to focus on the other LBs that really impressed them.
Well this is good  
newyork56lt : 8/10/2011 5:14 pm : link
I was worried that our backers would be absolutely terrible but this changed my mind a little bit.
The thing he said about Williams was great.
I don't think Kiwi should play like a traditional backer. He should be rushing in on most plays because that is what he is best at.
Williams  
Joey in VA : 8/10/2011 5:59 pm : link
Replaces Blackburn on specials IMO and that's a huge speed upgrade if so. My guess is that the DeSean Jackson dagger precipitated the turnover of Blackburn, Wilkinson with younger faster guys in Williams, Jones. I'm not saying its the ONLY reason but I have to think Williams is a speed guy looked at for his ST ability right now with an eye towards replacing Boley in 2 years.
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