I know he is gone but Steve Smith is now practicing....

Too funny.

sob sob..

1960 WILL CONTINUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FOR THE CURSED BAD DREAM TEAM!

he had to recovery was a couple weeks.

he's a "got a ways to go" and he practices two weeks later. The whole situation is just unreal and makes no sense.

The real question will be how he looks, but its still unbelievable.

I guess we'll know soon enough if he starts the season on the PUP list.

.

if he's practicing or was that a joke?

lists are about as clear to most of BBI as the Saints draft pick and compensatory picks.

once a player practices, he is officially off the PUP and cannot be placed back on it.

I am excite for part 2 of this movie once T2 comes back from his injury. How much do we pay him? Do we overpay? Does another team offer a lot if he hits the market? Stay tuned.. same channel..same time in the future!

.

Reese screwed up here. He took Smith for granted and thought he would take any offer he gives them.

The Giants will tell T2 he can never play again. Some team will sign him to a small 1 year contract, and he will play well for them.

.

they get flooded

and swiped him up. Let's move on.

You have to put spoiler if you are going to say that!

signing

to our doctors about how the knee felt.
Don't ask me for reasons.
He might want to live in Phila.

guy just moves the chains. If he heals up and is re-signed (a likely occurrence given his age), he's going to burn the Giants for years.

It still makes me puke that Steve Smith is a fucking Eagle.

between analysis. Don't the HSS serve both the Giants and Mets?

smh

Haha.

up with this situation.

were right we offered Smith a deal before his injury. He turned it down. Then he got hurt. I personally don't care, you move on and next man up. Trust your GM and the people around him.

What happens to a player who comes off the PUP list, practices, and is injured again?

medical staff or is it a medical staff on crack

Colossal fuckup

to be motivated to stick it to Coughlin and Reese. I believe he's going to be a long time Eagle and remind us everytime of what we had with him.

IR

Oh, didn't know that.

the offseason will be very interesting.

I'm sure Chad Jones could "practice" as well..Far cry from actually playing..Good lord

What a bunch of BS.

at first it was addition by subtraction...sign a guy who can come back and be real good, and take the same away from a division rival...but, they had to commit to getting him on the field...they are rushing him back, and the result on his career could be tragic...and he'll have himself, his agent, and the Eagles to blame.

You think if the Giants weren't concerned about his long term health, they wouldn't bring him back to play the slot ASAP?! If we was ready Reese would have him signed and back to his old job.

This is a case of the kid panicking and needing to get back on the field for fear of losing his relevance. BAD MOVE.

I did laugh @ that remark that Smith was back on the practice field quicker than Barden.

then this is indeed one of HSS worse years and that's saying something. Is Ike Davis still alive?

awesome.

Reese's No No Nanette moment. I dread possibly seeing the Eagles win the SB this year with SS making plays. Sometimes you get these feelings or premonitions about things. I feel this may be the Eagles year. We will hear about Vick's redemption over and over. I hope I am wrong.

You should apply for Giants team doctor and then you can post information so we know. Or have Eric give you a section where you can talk medical stuff regarding injuries and such.

How is this even possible?

Holy crap. What a disgrace. Great job, Doc!

You take light practice which is miles from an actual game as proof that there was no such thing as a "long haul?"..It's friggin' practice..

so there is no surprise there.

Too early to tell right now whats stupid and what isnt. The whole situation is pretty strange, you have to admit that much.

Yeah, um, you keep telling yourself that.

and if Smith was practicing with the Giants we would all be giddy with excitement.

a brilliant post by 1983..

also, lets wait and see if Smith actually can do anything or if he suffers the dreaded "setback".

Guys, breathe and wait to see how this unfolds as opposed to blind over reaction.

I swear, jumping to conclusions is the only excersise some BBI'ers ever get.

about people blindly following the organization.

Strange is a good word for this whole situation; either the Eagles are rushing him back way too soon or the Giants doctors are very, very conservative.

The thought of Smith on the field on 9/25 makes me sick.

it's a whole bunch of stupid here..Let's see him actually play in a game first..I'm sure whatever he's done on his own, is what he's doing now..If he's rushed back, there's gonna be trouble imo

It's hard to believe the Eagles docs aren't rushing the guy back, or he isn't rushing himself back.

Bite your tongue! Please don't speak those words around here... Fingers crossed you're wrong

I don't know why(and I don't pretend to know because the I the Giants don't call me for advice)so yes, I will continue to "believe" they know more than me.

Smith is an Eagle, screw him. Burress is a Jet, screw him. Boss is a Raider(I like Boss so I hope the best for him).

I'll worry more about the people the Giants kept thank you very much.

to rush a player back from injury, right?

To me it would be equivalent to light jogging that he's doing on his own anyway..So no, it would mean nothing to me until he plays an actual game..Lots of injured attempt practicing..Doesn't he get guaranteed money if he's off PUP and on the squad after opening day? If he does, then I'd get off PUP as well

you're Reese - your doctors tell you Smith has a long ways to go. You offer a 2 year contract, figuring the first year is paying him mostly to rehab.

Along comes another team whose doctors believe he's in better shape and they get him for 1 year. How's that Reese's fault again?

Massive clusterfuck all the way around.

If he was a Giant and practicing the same people here would be happy. It's all a bunch of BS.

no? then there's nothing to see here folks. we can't blow cap money on marginal talent. yes, steve was a nice player for us, but is rather pedestrian in terms of RAC, and not a redzone threat. looking at the guys like Nicks and Manningham, those are guys I'd rather commit large dollars to. Those guys are a threat to score anytime they step on the field.

and I think it starts with his agent.

if you don't think that most of BBI would be going nuts over the fact that Steve Smith was now back at practice for the Giants, then I don't know what to tell you.

I love the Giants, always will but not all the moves they make are gold.

It happens. Reese isn't perfect despite what some here think. I believe in is philosophy but that doesn't mean he has to be stubborn with his philosophy. In this case he was and he got burned. It happens.

and I dont want to see Steve Smith news every ten second.. Steve caught a ball.. Steve tied a shoe.. Steve let out a fart..

I dont care..

with no basis in fact..Yet..If it turns out you're right, you KNOW I'll be the first one on here giving you kudos..

Do you read BBI? LMAO

Skitish to me. God what a mess up for this oraganization if SS starts to contribute within the first 2-3 games for Eagles.

was never coming back to the Giants. His agent orchestrated this situation from day 1 to deliver him to Philly. Even hiding that big extension from him. To blame the Giants for not signing him is to ignore the facts on this.

What if he does shit this year? Is it still a massive fuckup?

That's an absurd statement. He wanted to be a giant.

was it a mess up when the Eagle doctors thought Bavaro was healthy enough? He was a shell of himself when he played for the Eagles.

That means he's already off PUP.

the surgery and whose track record is almost legendary. Reese follows what a highly acclaimed team of Doctors reported to him. He doesn't make the medical decisions..

The Eagles doctors by comparison are the same doctors that cleared severely concussed Westbrook and Bradley to play before they were ready and both immediately suffered a relapse..

we're talking about practice

his agent was delivering him to Philly from the start. He hid offers from Smith. He says he wanted to be a Giant, but the evidence suggests otherwise.

re: Bavaro. But, that was like 15-20 years ago...

Are you on crack that his agent would hide such a big contract for a slot receiver??? Why would an agent do that? They are paid on commission you know and it would have been a pretty nice one if that contracted one signed

if he's back by December when Philly is likely in the playoff hunt, then the 1 year gamble was worth it.

If he's approaching 100% (or on his way there) and is re-signed, then it was really worth it.

not a newbie moron..;)

What was that 20 years ago? Seriously. They probably don't even have the same doctors. That's your argument?

it's pretty much a fact at this point. And Smith was more than a slot receiver when he was healthy.

was more about cap money and less about his injury?

have the same doctors. The Eagles have always been an organization that pushed the medical limit with players and the Giants have not. That is a fact.

b4 we jump off a bridge cuz he's with the eagles...

he's on the field doing some sort of practicing awhile before any of us thought he would. It doesn't mean he will be ready by Week 1, but he is clearly on the road back to playing in games again. No way anyone can deny that.

They let him practice is a huge step. Not sure why some can't accept that, other than not paying attention. This...means....he....is.....off....pup...and....cannot....be...put....back....on!

so what?

What if he's mediocre this year - did we still lose out?

For this to be a fuckup by Reese, two things need to happen:

a) Steve Smith needs to contribute to the Eagles season
b) The Giants have to miss SS's production at WR

If both of those don't happen, then how on Earth did Reese fuck up?

It was a good gamble on the Eagles part, but havent the Giants signed Fa coming off injuries lately?
How about trying to keep your own grown talent. Isnt that what a winning organization does?
So even if we closed the gap on a SS offer maybe he would have stayed and he might have been a giant for many years to come, I would have been a good gamble on the Giants part to to do that no?

I think the communication or role of the MD in a football setting is something that should be talked about.

People talk about Reese like he does everything for the organization.. Cooks the meals, does the draft, cleans the bathrooms, cuts the lawn, does the surgeries, parks the cars, and so on. If the doctor gives Coughlin and Reese certain diagnosis then he has to listen to it.

It's just not worth it

He practices on his own..Practiced for the Giants and their Doctors and is doing the same..DO you think he's doing heavy running and cutting?

That he's off PUP to qualify for getting the entire 4 mill if on roster when season starts and practicing means nothing..Nothing..Let's see what happens

.

was 2 weeks. Awesome. Bottom line, he is on his way back. Absolutely, positively, NO denying that.

If people actually think this means nothing, then I'm not sure arguing this is worth it. Moving on.

Yes we're denying that..You're not, but many of us know at this point it's a road back to nothing..How about reading other posts before writing one yourself?

considering just 2 yrs ago he led The NYG in receptions all time

Is it just the fact that the Giants doctors thought he was further behind in his recovery? I don't recall seeing when the Giants thought he'd be able to start practicing, but I don't think it was that much worse than the Eagles (I thought he wasn't going to practice until Game 6, which is when the PUP comes off IIRC).

The Giants point was that they didn't think he could contribute much THIS YEAR. Not that he wouldn't be able to practice at all.

LOL, you are lost. I guess he is just practicing because he is bored. And NO, looks like most people here agree with me, not you.

with pesky facts.

Stop it!

is one of the best members on BBI. I agree with him, and just like Reese, '56 has a good track record with his posts and opinions he shares here on BBI.

But people (and there are plenty here right now on this very thread) are allowed to have a differing opinion from the Giants organization. They are not perfect, and have made their share of mistakes. It is possible, you know.

Your thoughts and writing style are like a child as is your inability not to reflexively overreact to anything and everything that is deemed news, worthy or not..

I keep saying I won't bother responding to your posts, yet I keep getting reeled back in..My bad

I don't care. Apparently, you are the only one with the problem. Sorry, that I and others don't agree with every single thing the Giants have done. You do, and that is perfectly fine.

I don't think any of us believed Smith would start practicing a full 15 days before opening weekend. None of us know when he will be back, but it's very possible he is back much sooner rather than later.

screwed up here when it's clear the agent had no intention of having smith sign with the giants. seriously beyond stupid at this point.

By the Giants' crack medical staff...

they can't have their own opinions. That's what makes a MB fun. If everyone had the same opinion it would be fucking boring.

That being said, the giants had a game plan this FA, and listened to their doctor. Either way, one can't fault that, especially Reese, who people want to blame. How do you blame a guy who is listening to a top doctor who did the surgery on his knee?

I am just saying, '56 knows his shit, plus he is a doctor, so I am going to listen to a guy who knows about that aspect. I been a coach so I know how stuff works from the coaching perspective, when the doc and trainer all meet and give the coach a report or status update on the hurt players. That works for ALL levels of football. So if Coughlin thought it would be a long haul, chances are he is echoing words, that the doctors gave him.

It just seems people can't get over the fact he is not a giant. The best thing, which i personally adopted, is not having a favorite player. So no attachments to any specific player. So Smith is gone now, someone else has to step up and get that production. Trust the veteran offensive staff to make the adjustments to do so. Until it all falls apart, I have no reason not to trust the franchise. It's not like we are the Browns, Cards, or Lions who have fucked up very often.

From the outset, I did not want to lose Smith, Bradshaw, and Kiwi. I will never back off those sentiments. I was not happy when Smith was not resigned at all, I looked at it as an opportunity to sign a great player long term for cheap, that opinion was obviously not shared by the Giants organization and Reese. I do not agree at all with that decision. But with all that said, Reese has done a good job and has been very good especially in the draft. So you have to give him the benefit of the doubt and wait and see how everything pans out. Just because Smith is practicing does not make Reese wrong. Plus if players like Cruz, Hixon and Jernigan have a good season along with Manningham and Nicks, what is the difference, you can not keep everyone anyway. Now is not the time to complain. If the season had just ended and Smith caught 100 passes and we never did get a good third reciever going, then you complain.

can we see Smith perform before saying Reese screwed up?

If he comes back early and is ineffective are we still going to bitch Reese?

Our next general manager had better have his medical degree.

I've seen Brandon use that exact same "then stop responding, I don't care..." line prior to being banned.

is totally clueless and Giants 1983 is totally in the know. Yup that's the ticket. Because Steve Smith is jogging on the sidelines at practice reese is an idiot. He still won't be back week one and even if he were he won't be the old Steve Smith. Some of you need to move on. Andy Reid didn't sleeo with your wife...I DID

whole situation is very strange.

Without the benefit of additional information, it certainly appears the Giants' medical staff screwed up.

then Wallace. So you better get some new dupes lined up and established.

seem to follow a certain pattern.

What's going to be funny is if the Giants manage to replace his production and the Eagles end up not needing him because Maclin returned. Then it'll have been a whole lot of hot air over nothing.

The Agent is the main reason Steve Smith isn't a Giant right now.

He didn't even know about the extension we offered last season!

that the Eagles signed this offseason, including Nnamdi, which NOBODY knew the Eagles were even in the bidding for until it was too late.

The Giants dispite having Nicks and Manningham look at Smith as a long term investment. The Eagles facing uncertainity over the Macklin situation look at Smith as a Stop-gap.

The amount of rehab and practice it will take to get him up to game speed is unknown but whinning over the guy finally being able to do equalivant of a jogging walk-through three weeks before the start of the season is insane.

Agee about the medical staff.

HSS if Smith comes back before their anticipation. I don't get why when it comes to the Giants these doctors are lauded but when it comes to the Mets and Knicks these very same doctors are ridicule. Something doesn't add up. I do know they are great at trying to help cover gunshot wounds.

cool.

The agent didn't convince the Giants' medical staff that Smith couldn't practice or play until half the year was over.

We'll see how Smith holds up, but this smells.

and should be accountable. When you succeed you reap the praise and when you fuck up you deserve the criticism.

Let it go.
You know how we cringe every time Phillips is in on a tackle and it's been well over a year with him. You have the same thing with smith. Every time this guy make a catch the fans will pray he gets back up. He will take shots on those knees and they will hurt. He ain't catching 107 balls for them.

Practicing lightly is far from game ready..As LiP said, it's effectively a glorified jog/walk through..Even if he plays sooner rather than later, what will be his effectiveness? There are far more questions about his health than there are answers, imo...In light of very little evidence, I'm surprised you of all people, would come out and buy into a screw-up at this juncture..

many are looking beyond week 1. It is very plausible that Smith is contributing in December for a bitter division rival and in the playoffs and then, worse, in the years ahead. For a bitter division rival

the Eagles only offered a 1 year deal.

What did the Eagles deal offer that ours didn't and why weren't we given the opportunity to match?

source? Since you are so definitive that JR fucked up, can you offer a modicum of evidence AT THIS POINT, that that is so?

that he expected, and was WILLING, to sign a 1 year deal with us.

Then, the Eagles "wanted him more"?

SS hasn't performed on the field at this point. We don't know the extent to which he will perform. It's a 1 year contract. Reese only fucks up if Smith significantly contributes (and any "contribution" doesn't mean Reese fucked up).

We don't know the dynamics behind the offers although, as others have pointed out, it smells.

We don't know what the medical staff told Reese.

Holy jump to conclusions...

It was increasingly unlikely NYG could afford to re-sign him AND re-sign M2 AND Nicks, etc.

If Reese made a mistake or two, and I suspect he probably did in conjunction with the agent being less than honest, we'll see how he handles T2's contract status next offseason.

Relax, we still have our two most talented wideouts.

Very good post! If anyone had to talk to the media I wish it was our medical staff so they can explain what was going on with Smith's knee and what they said to Reese, Mara, and Coughlin.

only the SHADOW knows. What if the eagles know that the season starts in a couple of weeks and they want to make sure that he looks like he may make it or may not make it before they have to gaurenteE(sp) the money, and then what if they don't like the way he looks they cut him before the season starts and then they are off the hook.That just may be what's happening. Like i said only the shadow knows

blaming the agent for all of the FA signings. I'm sure the players who were all represented by Dogra were getting misinformation?.? Either that, or the Eagles ha a lot of money to spend.

withheld a major offer from Smith before the injury and then he doesn't give the Giants a chance to match this offer. This agent was delivering guys to Philly.

For me I think Steve Smith was incredibly important to this offense. I see him as a better player than Mannigham. I had this feeling all along from the start of FA that he should have been more aggressive in resigning Smith. For me I think the risjk was worth the reward. My only evidence is Coughlin's reaction to losing Smith.

I have no comments on the medical staff and their prognosis of when he would be able to play or not. I've had enough serious knee problems to know how difficult it can be to project recovery.

not sure what the legal ramifications would be. I would assume that any personal details about Smith aired publicly, would have to get Smith's ok? Again, not sure

Anyone remember Tyree the training camp after we won SB42?

Yeah, he "practiced". Did he make the team? No, because he simply couldn't return to form. Another example; Mark Bavaro practiced after the Giants told him he was done, and actually made the Browns, then Eagles, but he wasn't the same guy we all knew.

Even with best prognosis, SS is not going to be the SS we know, after this kind of injury, for at least a year. It's more likely he gets injured, but the Eagles don't care. They took a flyer, just like we did with Lavar Arrington, who also had a history of being injured. Remember, we were looking to keep Steve for more than one year, unlike the Eagles, so we would be more conservative.

Is it possible the injury was misdiagnosed? I doubt it, though anything is possible. Sometimes, you can tough things out, but in the long run, the odds are against you. I think that's what's happening here.

Slice it and dice it any way you want but we lost 3 key young home grown talent. That said is a fuck up for any organization.

Nobody here finds it odd that the Giants are saying they offered a 5 year, 35 million dollar extension and Steve Smith is saying he didn't know about that offer?

Agree. The medical staff is in a position of trying to predict how Smith's knee would react to his type of game.

It's an inexact science, and some doctors will be more cautious than others.

Perhaps the Giants medical staff made a more long-term diagnosis based upon the perception that SS had stated he wanted to remain a Giant, while the Eagles doctors made a more short-term diagnosis, based on their "win now" mode?

Really, really can't see why Reese is faulted. He's doing exactly what he should be doing. Listening to people who have much more knowledge on the situation (firsthand knowledge, by the way), and who are in much better position to predict the future of Smith's career.

But, again, it's an inexact science. Some people will heal, some people won't. If we signed him to a higher paid contract and he never returned, people would blast Reese for overpaying.

Even if he is not your patient anymore? What happens if the Eagles medical staff want our files? Do they have the right to get copies? It's interesting because sports is a public thing with lots of media exposure, so how do patient-doctor laws apply in this environment?

blame reese for something out of his control is beyond fucking perplexing.

Vick is placed on IR by week 4 and the Eagles have no one to throw to Steve Smith.

Based on what I remember the Giants thought he might be game ready around weeks 4 thru 6, while the Eagles thought more weeks 1-4. Only 2-3 weeks difference. We will see who was closer. Remember there were 30 other teams that didn't pursue him as much. The bigger question to me is how the Eagles will handle DeSean's contact this year, Smith's at the end of this year, without ticking off Maclyn who has two years left.

practice. If I am right in my assumption, I would love to see the practice in which the media is invited and what he does there.

is as far off his game as Kenny Phillips was last year he's not going to be worth the money.

because there is zero real evidence to show that Dogra did anything wrong.

I expect Steve SMith to be contributing to the Eagles offense in time for the late season stretch drive. How much he contributes is the question but I have accepted the fact that they outbid the Giants.

But to me any contribution that he gives the Eagles doesn't automatically mean the Giant's medical staff messed up if he exceeds their expectations or that Reese should have known.

What I don't get is the angst over a jogging walk-through for a man who will likely be limited this year. Freaking idiots may be the wrong phrase but this is looking like a male soap opera

injured players who may or not contribute much in 2011, players who face uncertain futures playing in the NFL. This requires making wise fiscal choices.

The salary cap is back, difficult choices ain't easy and sometimes the team makes the right decision even if it's unpopular with their fans.

but don't we have to sit on this awhile, perhaps a great while, before declarations of a fluck up can be proven or disproved? Hey, I have several SS jerseys and I would have loved to sign him long term if he was healthy. As you know, each case is different, but I'll ask a question no one has come forward with an answer to:

Name one OFFENSIVE player who has had this surgery through the years, who returned to what he was?

1) the agent is sleazy and strongly favors the Eagles
2) the only doctor WHO HAS SEEN THE INSIDE OF STEVE'S KNEE told the Giants that recovery would take awhile
3) we have no idea when or if SS will be productive
4) at the time of the no-decision decision (thanks to the sleazy agent) our receiving corps was a relatively strong and deep unit

And from this we conclude that Reese is an idiot?

you want to resign. There are long-term ramifications to making offers to players who may never regain their form.

There are also other players in the coming few years who merit redoing the deal.

It's some sort of perverse hindsight, coupled with foresight that Smith will be what he was before.

if we are talking about a year from now, an we had/have a choice between signing Steve Smith(albeit a healthier SS) or MM, I'd go with Smith. He's the guy who consistently moved the chains for us.

It is what it is now, but allowing yourself to pin the blame on Dogra is just silly, these players are not angels. They know what's going on with what they are offered.

I thought Colston had the surgery and had a 1000 yards last year. Although I think he screwed up his other knee.

Files are available by request. But the question is, can this info be declared to the world without his permission?

surgery, the goal is to regrow cartilage in the knee. The Giant's doctors were looking out for Smith's long term health and were giving his knee enough time to fully repair and regrow before putting him back on the field like they did with Kenny.

The Eagles on the other hand may consider Smith a 1 yr rental so even though his knee isn't healed, they're going to play him, run him into the ground and cut him at the end of the yr. If his knee swells up mid season they'll just drain it or give him an injection and send him back out.

Steve Smith joined the dark side. Now he might have to pay a big price because of it.

you could be right, but I thought it was the Same knee, no?

is there a difference between Kenny Phillips injury and Steve Smith's?

But how does HIPPA work with injury reports?

barens, I respectfully disagree. I think 3 years down the road Manningham is going to be putting up monster numbers on a very consistent basis.

and offer up that propsoed deal as fact. The Giant FO have just recently said they engage in "offseason chatter" with players. It is hard for me to believe that the Giants had some contract on the side ready just for SS to sign without first engaging the player in negotiation to get to some number range. I think both sides have embellish on the truth to save face regarding that propose contract.

I wish the info can be shown. That would help in clarifying a lot. Where is that unnamed source when you need him? lol. Can a doctor in this team setting decline as well? Perhaps say to the other doctor we are on two different teams so no. Or is that bad form on our part?

I understand where you are coming from. I'm just still very angry about the Smith loss. I understand why we were limited players in FA and I understood losing Boss. This one I just think will turn out to be a big mistake and while I don't really think Reese should be fired. I'm not going to sit here and pretend that I think everything is ok.

that Smith's agent seems to have some sort of weird relationship with the Eagles. However, it seems that he is just good at getting money out of Roseman. Everyone says the Eagles were so great in getting Nnamdi. In fact, not really. What happened. The Jets and the Cowboys offered Nnamdi 10, Dogra told roseman to "BE BOLD" and he offered 12. Paying the highest money is not some sort of genius move. With Smith, the Eagles offered him way more than we offered him. Now, there are a lot of weird things going on and with the two of them, but in the end it just seems like the Eagles are paying the most money to Dogra's clients.

Given the serious knee injury, would you really rather tie up big money in Smith and risk losing a more talented, healthy player? I wouldn't.

I believe he has to then either go on IR or the team has to leave him active is he is coming back.

Just like with every player you weigh your risk, the Giants felt he was a big risk for this season. the Eagles also thought he was a risk which is why they only offered a 1 year deal. even if he plays he will struggle his 1st year back as just about every player does.

move on, this season he is no better than what we have anyway.

John Mara said it was absolutely made.

The eagle offer was barely more than the giant offer this year and the clown who said he wanted to be a giant for life doesn't even see if that team was willing to match an offer that barely beat their first one?

You guys can continue to claim Reese fucked up majorly but the truth is Reese really wasn't given a chance to fuck up in this case.

Facts kinda point directly to smith and/or dogra having zero intention of re-signing here.

But keep blaming our FO that really wanted him back and wasn't given a chance to make him the higher offer. Not like an agent isn't supposed to try and get the best deal for his client by shopping around offers...

People don't think that stinks to high heaven?

Reb: But if there is a screw-up, shouldn't the doctors be held to task and not Reese?

barens: who knows...From what I recall and perhaps others can chime in either way, the report post-op was that this was a more difficult MF surgery than normal and was at the the time, possibly deemed career-threatening..

Okie: I don't know and why I raised the question

I'd say: Smith is rare in the sense that we know for certain he can make cluctch plays in the Super Bowl. I dont need to illuminate with examples. He is a winning type player whose strenths on the field coincide with championship football. Smart, a great route runner, spectaular hands and the like. Stop and think how much better the Giants would look right now if Smith just returned to their camp. Reese did this offseason by siging Baas. But overall, it is clear, just looking at the replacements, that the Giants didn't intend to loose all that they did, and that there is every reason to be concerned that absent a TE threat over the middle, the Giants will struggle to pass this year.

G Gs Rec yds avg Long TD
15 11 86 848 9.9 35 7


This without Randy Moss

numbers if he isn't already, but all things being equal, and by all things, I mean healthy knees, I'd go with Smith. Without Smith, our offense seems to go three and out a whole bunch, and then all of a sudden, we'll get a big play from Manningham, and so on and so forth. You have to admit, we do miss that guy who was able to move the chains for us.

But anyway, like others have said, I don't blame anyone for Smith being gone, and it's nowhere near clear who was right or wrong.

Wes Welker did NOT have microfracture surgery, iirc..Apples and oranges

Giants Low balled SS

I do not think that you can find a bigger supporter of Jerry Reese on this board than me. I think he is a top notch talent evaluator, especially of college kids. His record as GM and before that as our chief personnel guy is impeccable. The FA signings have been worse, but those are always hard. I do not blame Reese for Smith, because in the end, I think you are right Smith should have come back to us. I will say, however, that I thought we should have signed him much earlier in the signing process and never let him leave the room. I think we did try to lowball Smith, and I think it hurt us in the end. But, because Smith was a turd and never gave us at least the chance to match or surpass, I think Reese gets a pass. It is a tough call and some criticism of our front office is not unwarranted.

Lemme rephrase that. Giants took SS for granted and then low balled him. SS did the right thing IMO

...are 2 different things.

But I guess we should just jump to conclusions and be reactionary as always. Docs suck, Reese sucks. Yep.

we have no idea if the giants would have matched or up that offer thanks to... Reese or the agent/smith?

see my 1:55...Our posts crossed

I think had Reese been more aggressive to resign Smith earlier on, I think that he probably could have signed him to a reasonable short term contract for both sides. I don't believe in that case it would have been either Smith or Manningham.

Over smith.

Smith was under no obligation to shop the deal back to us. We do the same thing in that we don't allow potential FAs to shop our offers either.

The doctrine of infallibility is in full effect...

at no point did Mara or Reese see Smith at the facility, on the field, the parking lot, hell in the bath room and ask him did he have a chance to speak with his agent? I don't know if that is reasonable. Were they just saying hi and bye, wishing him happy holidays without saying "Hey Steve we just offer you a contract and your agent said no thanks. What are you looking for? Can we talk about it?"

As an organization you should look long term to. Ok so Giants sign SS but comes bacm mid season. Heck he could even help us get into playoffs no? BUT what about next yr and the yr after. this is a guy afterall you holds Teams reception record, he's not an avg receiver.

Paul, you can say that again.

got it>:)

fuck ton more guaranteed money the previous year that he or his agent turned down.

If smith came back to the giants with the eagle offer and we one upped them and he re-signed, did we still lowball?

Paul, doctrine of infallibility my ass. I can go through an entire list of Reese mistakes in his short tenure.

This ain't one of 'em. You guys whining about this shit need to pull the tampons out. Smith is a fucking Philadelphia Eagle. Fuck. Him.

How? There's no saying whether or not he ever returns to what he was, seeing as how his abilities were predicated on sharp cuts and precise routes.

It also must use some foresight, seeing that we have no idea how he responds to this.

My guess is that the Giants medical staff went with the long-term diagnosis, instead of the short-term, due to a myriad of reasons (one of which was protecting his career).

...

He's coming off microfracture surgery. There's no guarantee he'll be the same guy he was. What if we signed him long-term and he wasn't the same and then we couldn't afford to re-sign Mario? That sounds like a pretty shitty scenario to me.

Its funny that that only came out after he left isnt it? Why didnt Management say last yr the offer we made him???I think Giants were shocked he left and were trying to save face. Its he said , she said thing.
But we do know of the lowball offer to SS

Beckum looking pretty bad, both might still redeem but they look like mistakes.

Barden, possibly another waste of a trade up.

CC Brown. Safety Depth.
Boley, meh signing, not a mistake but still meh.
Dan Sheridan, god awful mistake.


And Paul, no dogra has no obligation to go back to the giants with an offer. But if I'm a player and I want THE MOST MONEY in my deal, my agent is shopping around the best offer until there is no more best offer. Get it? Or is that too complex for you?

to bring the offer match, but if his job is to get max money for Smith, then you have to bring the offer back to see if we match. If we do, then you try to create a bidding war. More money for Smith means more money for the agent. Now if Smith is mad that Coughlin said "long haul" then fine. But if Smith claimed to love NY and it's fans and all that shit, then one would think he would want to come back. But an agent's job is to get max money for his client. So in my opinion you should bring the offer back to us, and see if we would match. Then you take offer back to the Eagles, and so on.

go for it.

didn't think that was so difficult for people to understand

right up until the moment I saw him play.

Then I knew it was a mistake!

Sounds like you're becoming a little unhinged. There's no telling how the negotiation with the Eagles went down, but it's likely they wouldn't give him the opportunity to shop it. The Giants have the same policy.

Then yes, Reese messed up by not courting him more. Smith may not like the fact he helped them win a SB and got maybe not a great deal out of it.

I'm just fine, I just don't like bullshit being spouted to support a weak point to begin with.

'There's no telling how the negotiation with the Eagles went down, but it's likely they wouldn't give him the opportunity to shop it. The Giants have the same policy.'

Where's your crystal ball saying the eagles offer was take it or leave it? And why would it be take it or leave it if dogra has such a good relationship with them?

And uh, giants have the same policy? Reese offered 4 guys contracts and basically said shop the offers around and come back, we'll see what works.

Giants fans were in uproar upon finding out SS signed with eagles. Its funny that Osi was promised a renegotion by management and when he pulls off his whining bbi supports managment , so in that case management doesnt feel the need to save face, but In SS case fans are angry and in uproar for leaving Giants and management comes in to save their faces. funny isnt it. Soemthing smells in this management and I dont like it and neither will players or future players.

but I also think that Reese and Hanlon did not acquit themselves very well in the immediate aftermath of the Smith signing. Now both Reese and Hanlon are both gentlemen and good human beings. Hanlon has been exceptionally gracious to BBI. However on this one single occasion I think they both came across as overly arrogant and callous to fans concerns. I think they could have handled themselves with a little more humility and less braggadocio. I think Reese's comments about making the playoffs may come back to haunt him if this season goes south.

twist it to suit their own agendas.

The Giants wanted him to take his time because it is healthier for the long term. The Eagles are getting him up and running right away--why not?? They have a one year investment in him so fuck 'im if he gets hurt!

the alleged offer from Reese to O$i semed fair to me..If you play like a top 5 DE, you'll be paid like one. 2008 he missed the season..2009 wasn't his best season. We were so crippled in 2009 that we could have used every body we could, yet O$i was benched the latter part of the year. Last year was a very good one. So since 2007, has he performed like a top 5 DE..1 year out of the last 3 does not merit top 5 money

Yes, we do have the same policy with FAs we bring in. The same thing happened with Baas. The 49ers claimed that their understanding was that they'd get a chance to match any offers he got. They didn't get that chance... Uh oh, this conspiracy by the agents might be more pervasive than we thought...

if he played like a top 5 end. Since then he was injured and missed the season, played so poorly he was benched and then had one great year. So tell me where that promise was broken.

SS was a good giant but he moved on, we need too as well. Hixon, Cruz, and Thomas all need to step up and that's pretty much sums up our situation. We can blame whoever but that's not going to bring him back here, we have some talent at the Wr area...we should be able to manage as long as Nicks and Manningham stay healthy.

I'm getting a big popcorn for the total meltdown here when he plays his first game. All you drama queens get your "A" material, competition will be fierce.

It's football -There is free agency and players move on. Get over it. It's not like Eli is suiting up for Philly.

By the Giants organization on this one. Just a huge fuckup.

I'm still disgusted that a Giant mvp was basically handed to philly. Don't worry sheep, barden had a great day on the exercise bike yesterday.

We will see how content people are with this move when were going 3 and out drive after drive

to lose someone in free agency.

It's another to lose the Giants' only Pro Bowl WR since the late 1960s.

Nicks is the better player. Maybe Manningham. But losing Steve Smith is a big, big deal.

I'm with you on this one. I also think the Smith to the Eagles thing was something Dogra was setting up all last year. I can't fully blame Reese because this situation seems very fishy.

You sound like StealingSociety. Relax. We have no idea if Steve Smith is going to be the same guy he was before he got hurt. His game relied heavily on sharp cuts and changes in direction and he's coming off microfracture. People are assuming it's not going to effect him which doesn't make much sense to me.

It sucks that we lost Smith but let's not act like we just let Eli Manning or Hakeem Nicks walk away from the team. There are plenty of reasons to be optimistic about this offense.

The probowl comment is irrelevant. We've had weak WRs over the years and a number of guys snubbed. That doesn't make the loss of Smith any more significant.

We will have to disagree on how big the loss is. Smith is coming off a very serious injury.

Quote:

-@JonathanTamari: Steve Smith - despite all the optimism - says he won't be at 100 percent for another 4 to 6 weeks. Mixed message there.

If prior MF surgery is any indication(for offensive players), SS will never be 100% or near what he once was..

IMO.

I understand but I'm heated. Also, I see a ton of ?? W the giants offense.

I believe this is a very questionable offensive line, we don't have an average tight end, we have 2 wideouts I trust.

I'm extremely worried about the offense. I feel the defense will be about the same as last year but the TT injury was huge

So, he's saying he will be 100% between Week 2-4. Not that bad, IMO. We were hearing he might not be back until Week 8-10, not too long ago.

It's irrelevant at this point because he's not even close to going full speed and production-wise most likely will never be close to what he was..So AGAIN, name one OFFENSIVE player who returned to what he was through all the years? Why is this being conveniently ignored?

That steve smith shouldve received a fair offer from the giants and he didn't. He got jerked around by them, got pissed and got a better offer from philly and bounced

The guy did not exactly draw a ton of interest in FA. Wonder why that is?

What player doesn't think he'll be 100% percent? You here that so often and the facts are pretty much against that happening, esp. in 2-4 weeks..

.

4-6 weeks from today is between Weeks 2-4 of the regular season. I'm sorry, but I think Smith will be a productive contributer this season. Him participating in any type of practice this soon is eye-opening, IMO.

Some of you guys can put all blame on the Giants organization. I honestly think the Giants was being cautious with Smith because this is a serious injury that can ruin his playing career for good. But if the Giants did offer Steve a contract last year then the Giants did everything they could, point blank Steve was going to the Eagles way before he went to the Eagles. This has Dogra name written all over it.

and oh my God, what will we do without him are two different things.

I'm not really sure what's so questionable about the OL. Snee, Diehl and KMac are all still here and Baas is an upgrade over O'Hara. Beatty is the biggest question but I think he'll be alright.

There's also no way Eli throws 25 picks again this year. That number will normalize this year and go down by 10 or more. Turning the ball over less will make a big difference for us on both sides of the ball.

I'm really not that worried about the offense.

He is clearly one of the best pass rushers in the game and would get 10+ million per season on the open market


to go back and look at 2009 when he was recovering from surgery is idiotic.

if Reese did indeed promise to redo the contract if Osi performed like a top DE, then he clearly reneged on the promise. i have no idea what in fact was promised, but if Osi is telling the truth, then he has every right to feel betrayed

But some people believe he is done. It works both ways.

Agreed. That is true.

and risking a setback. A little tweak in the wrong direction could spell major disaster when a healthy, fully healed knee could absorb that same tweak. I know this from experience.

we are SOL. Cruz has barely shown up this pre-season/camp, Barden is still in parts unknown. I'm praying our 2 WRs stay healthy.

At most he's done light jogging like Maclin..Nothing he hasn't done on his own for quite some time, so what is eye opening? Has he cut hard yet? We know by the reports he hasn't. So what is so eye-opening about something he's probably done for months now(Giants are obviously aware of this)? Is it because he's doing the same thing but in Helmet, Jersey, pads and pants?

If DeSean Jackson went down with a season ending injury, wouldn't the Eagles be in deep shit too?

How would the Texans WR's be without Andre? The Lions without Megatron?

If that is the case then Eli is not half the QB people make him out to be. Look what Rivers and Peyton did last year. Not to mention Eli.

that is.

but I didn't expect to hear him doing any type of practicing 2 weeks before the season started.

are more than adequate, don't you think? The only question was Hixon's knee and he has proven ON THE FIELD that it's a non-factor. I haven't seen any reports on post game swelling which is not to say there wasn't any. As a talent, I believe Hixon will do just fine as our 3rd wideout

but there are teams out there with proven 3rd WRs out there. Or at the least, some type of proven vet. We have Vinctor Cruz and a hurt Barden.

How has Hixon proven he can handle it on the field for a 16 game season?

Not saying he can't, but it's nowhere near a given.

I'm not even counting on Barden. Anything he gives us would be a bonus

he's proven a hell of a lot more since the injury than Smith. Hixon's injury was a lot sooner, and probably not as severe.

You are correct, we have no idea how he will hold up over the course of a 16 game season. So, what does that tell you about Smith? He hasn't seen the field AND his surgery was far more complex than Hixon's

It's not just Cruz and Barden.

Jernigan will take a little time but there's no reason why he can't turn into a solid slot WR. Hixon has looked outstanding so far.

Look at most NFL teams rosters. I think you're assuming many more teams have proven WR3's than they really do.

We'll have to see how things pan out. But for my take, wide receiver is really not one of my concerns for the team.

And I absolutely wouldn't have given Smith a long extension, after getting hurt. But for a 1 year deal, I absoultey would have. I'm still aittle surprised to hear about Smith jogging/running already, though.

I'm not expecting Jernigan to do much damage this year. Not sure what to expect from Hixon. He looked pretty good in the 1st pre-season game. Thomas? No idea. Put all of that together with Bardens' injury and Cruz being a non-factor so far this pre-season/camp, and it's awhole lot of question marks after Nicks and Mario.

a year ago verses what they offered him now. That should give some indication how big a concern it was for them.

he wasn't going to get an offer on par with what he would have gotten with no injury.

look the same and you are saying with certainty that SS will be the same?

see how many guys it takes to equal his production. Also, what new wrinkles the staff has ready for certain d/d to compensate for his loss.

huh? Osi has had one good year in three. The year before last he was so bad he was benched. Top end is his mind only.

We could be much worse off. I know people don't like question marks or unproven players at any position which is understandable.. but every year there are going to be some of those guys and someone has to step up. I think there's enough talent in the pool for someone to do it.

In the salary cap era, there's just no way to have proven guys at every position.

Hayte the salary cap.

Agree with Eric on this.. You just dont let go of players of that caliber that easy, especially if your thinking long term..

They would not have just let that player go. They made him a sizable offer the year prior. This year the offer was significantly less. Obviously they are not expecting the same player, and clearly neither is the rest of the league.

not the current damaged goods that may never regain anywhere near his former form

32 teams get that. Obviously BBI doesn't.

;)

Philly would have snatched him day 1 if they were so sure.

with Smith for weeks and was waiting for the Giants. At what price they signed Smith, the Eagles aren't counting on, nor do they need Steve Smith to perform at his pre-injury status.

we see who steps up for us. Losing a pre injury version of Smith hurts us. I am sure if there is a lesson to be learned it will sink in because now part 2 of this movie comes out when TT comes back and needs to be re-signed. We will see how that sequel goes.

That's the point. No one is expecting him to be the same player. At least not immediately. But this thread is filled with people telling us how good he is and how big a loss.

all out in fear of an injury before the season gets going. I think we'll see better effort from him game1. He looks to be just going thru the motions.

I think he could be a productive contributer for a team this year. I am not expecting him to the preinjury Smith this year. It may never happen, but I think it is certainly possible. He's only 26, not 36.

Losing Steve Smith was a clusterfuck.

However, these things happen to even the very best and the Giants and us fans have no choice but to accept it, move on, and cheer our guts out for the guys we have out there.

So you just give up that easy on him? A previous Pro bowler, a fan favorite? A guy that when healthy is a franchise player. A player that wanted to stay a Giant. So don't think long term and offer him more then the Eagles did?

Nor am I saying that is what they did.

and this offseason could cost Reese and Coughlin their jobs. I firmly believe that.

aren't going anywhere. O, and neither is Gilbride unless he is getting a Hcing job. So prepare for more Gilbride if others hate the guy.

Returns!

this offseason they cut two hurt OL. They signed a center who is better than the one they let go. They refused to overpay for a TE who caught 2 passes per game. They let a WR go who suffered a major injury. They re-signed Kiwi and kept money so that next year they have the ability to re-sign other key players.

For not shelling out a big contract to a guy coming off a very serious injury whose medical reports state he has a long way to go. Especially with your top 2 wideouts already in place. That is just silly.

But I do think he has to do alittle bit better of a job with the cap going forward.

Especially with a dumb handle like Jay Pee Pee.

has all but put his head on the chopping block with his guarantees. He better be right because he's giving off an awful lot of hot air recently.

contracts are Kevin Abrams domain.

Either way, directly or indirectly, it falls on Reese, being the GM.

because they own the team. It's the division of responsibility within an organization. If it's Abrams fault then he should get heat not Reese. Blame the guy who is at fault, not just generalize because we are fans and don't know whose fault it is, so we pick the most general guy in charge. LOL.

before we fire the GM for christ sakes.

Even Coughlin said that Smith was 4 weeks away from the time he made his commnet. That would put him at week 2.

And there is NO way i'm buying the agent not telling Smith of a higher offer..Because that would cost the agent money and I'm sure Smith would have fired that agent on the spot.

I echo Eric here, there's more to this story and i'm leaning closer to a salary cap issue..I don't think they were prepared to offer him a big contract, healthy or not..

Um, no. They hire people to do the job. If they don't do the job, they get fired.

Reese is the GM. He offers contracts to players. He absolutely plays a part in the Giants salary cap, directly or indirectly.

so if it's his fault fire him. It's simple if you are in charge of an area and you fuck up it's your head. Jerry the downstairs urinal isn't working? Damn you Reese your the GM!
Let's blame the people who actually fuck up. If we don't have the right information or all of it, then we can't comment on.

firing anybody yet...but we have to be aware of those responsible in case of failure.

Reese plays a very large role with the salary cap. He offers contracts to players, and doesn't in some cases. His actions play a role in the salary cap. He makes decisions with the salary cap in mind.

of our free agents. We have to pick and choose. Mind you, we have to pick and choose not just that year, but also with an eye on the future.

You have to keep in mind what future players will become available to you that could provide an upgrade, what the contracts you will be for future players, cap room in the future, ...

You can't throw money around willy nilly because other teams have other goals (short-term vs. long-term, ...) or because they overpay. You pay your valuation, and don't get bid up simply because others are doing it.

we don't know what his job duties entail exactly. I am sure if you talk to fans it would include everything under the sun, and thus blame him accordingly. I won't be surprised if the Maras are at all the meetings with the coaches. Point being, we as fans dont know shit, however we still love to blame as if we have all the information. This goes for all levels of football.

My point being let's blame the guy who is in charge. If that's indeed Reese's area directly. Then cool, blame him. I don't give two shits. Just funny how fans want to blame everything on Reese just because he is the GM.

You seem like a very nice guy but dammit if your aren't one of the biggest homers I've ever seen.

Who are so rational about Cofield completely lost their sense of perceptive over Smith. There is no question in my mind that Cofield will help a division rival more and have the bigger impact this year. Just as people were able to accept the business aspects in his situation they can't in this case. Weird

but I think the correct reasoning there is that the Giants focus on the DLine is the DEs. They have paid Tuck and Osi substantial amounts of money there. You can;t handout huge contracts to the entire DLine.

I get what you are saying. But again, Reese does have an impact on the cap. Reese's actions and decisions he makes are based on the cap. Mara does pick and choose the players Reese wants to sign, nor does Kevin Abrams. Therefore, Reese does impact the Giants cap number fairly significantly.

that we wouldn't be able to pay Cofield, and people were resigned to losing him once FA started.

Smith, on the other hand, had (apparently) received a long-term offer the year before, had professed his desire to remain with the Giants, and there was no indication that other teams were going to seriously go after a receiver, whose ability depends on crisp route running, who had just suffered a major knee injury, and whose timetable was relatively long-term, from people in the know.

typo.

Bingo!

Remember the preseason when KP was coming back from the micro fracture surgery and he kept saying how great he felt. How he could run straight line fine and how he felt like he could do anything but the docs and trainers kept telling him that it would take a while?

Remember?

It seems the docs and trainers were right.

KP still doesn't look the same

So it really doesn't matter that SS is practicing lightly now. It doesn't matter that he feels great.

What matters is his level of play when the bullets start flying for real and no one at this point can say right now with any certainty just what that level will be.

The Giants Docs best guess which was likely latched on to and echoed by both JR and TC, was probably not optimistic.

And based on what we have seen from KP and the statements from the Giants that SS microfracture surgery was complicated, I am going to go with the Giants best guess.

Should it turn out differently then it was likely serendipitous for the Eagles and SS.

Should it turn out negatively for SS I will feel sorry for him. I will not feel sorry for the Eagles.

We can't control the SS situation now.

All we can do is root for whomever is going to attempt to replace SS on the field and that is where I am going to put my energy.

Everything else is speculation and hand wringing

Maybe we are talking about different things based on your last post. I agree with that, I am talking about who people blame Reese for contracts and shit like that. Point being, they seem to give him every responsiblity under the sun. All I am saying in a nut shell, is just blame the guy in charge. If that's Reese or Mara or God, blame them or him individually. If you sit and read, you will see a lot of fans tend to up anything and everything wrong on the highest power, which is Reese. I am sure if the doctors were wrong, you'd see blame Reese for listening to the doctor. lol.

But I will be back. I have to check if the flashlights have batteries.

the whole situation didnt make much sense.. Unfortunately Steve Smith is an Eagle now and we just have to except it. But if SS fully recovers and becomes his old self again, well then we just gave the Eagles a pro bowler and someone will have to own up to that giant mistake..

if Steve Smith comes back and plays better than expected then for some of y'all that mean Reese should be fired.

On the other hand, if Steve Smith doesn't outplay the Giant's expectations and it turns out that Philly gets burned by the risk does that mean Andy Reid should be fired?

unfortunately, once you get a label, you're stuck with it..I've called out this admin. and coaches more than you think..I couldn't stand the prior regime and said so quite often. Far from a Homer..I call it as I see it. I generally go through life supporting the proven until otherwise indicated. This regime has a proven record in the main and so I support them in the main. But again, once a rep always a rep..Finally when it comes to injuries and post surgical production, I tend to go with the world renowned surgeon(s) and his proven track record. He is not always right. Neither is Reese..Neither is Coughlin..And certainly not I

It's a win-win situation for the Eagles..If he pans out, then they got a good weapon and keeps their division rival from utilizing that weapon..If it, doesn't, oh well..it's just a fe million.

The reward greatly outweighs the risk, IMO..

you rule out that the Giants were playing games, which, at the very least, the Smith people indicated they were. According to Smith, he alleged that the Giants were trying to get him on the cheap and deliberately saying negative stuff about his health to lower the market. I, for one, do not believe that allegation, but I just don't think anyone knows how much he will be able to contribute once he is able to play. In other words, it is far from certain that the Giants were basic their entire strategy with Smith on the medical opinions. That remains to be seen.

was injured repeatedly last season. He got hurt, came back, got hurt came back, then got hurt and was done for the year. Not saying he damaged goods, but he is anything but durable.

I don't think that is necessarily true. The Eagles have exhausted their cap room, and it is a zero sum game. They already have three receivers and have glaring weaknesses at LB, Safety, and of course, OL. They put money into a position that they adequately had covered. I think the Smith signing for them was a panic reaction to Maclin, who the week Smith signed, was being tested for Lymphoma.

because JR wouldnt give him a 1 year deal.....just my feeling

I bet he offered him a two year deal just like Kiwi.

Smith didn't want to wait two years for his big pay day so he moved on

And you can't blame either one

Can't imagine Smith's going to get a big time deal from the Eagles, with Jackson, Vick, etc. being higher priorities.

My guess is he'll be somewhere else next year.

the Gianst organization don't spend money on the LB's either..They use the draft so that comparison is for naught..

They have no idea what Maclin is going to be so i think it was a very shrewd move. Plus they get the option toresigning Smith if he plays well down the stretch..It's not like they give him a contract worth 7M..They gave him a better contract then what the Giants offered

of whether other receivers will step up, I am confident that will happen. It's more a question of whether Manningham can be more of a consistent player taking over for Smith. We all know he's dynamic, and he could be a big play guy, but to me, that's where the gap is, the mistakes.

and they spent 2.3 million on a guy who they may or may not get any contribution from. I am not willing to say the Eagles did anything great, in that regard, at this point. Sorry. And, your linebacker comparison is off the mark. Last season, the Giants started Bullock and Boley (both FA's by the way). This year its Kiwi and Boley. By contrast,the Eagles are starting a ROOKIE fourth rounder, a second year 7th rounder, and I think a third year 6th rounder. Our linebackers, as weak as they are, is nowhere near the lack of quality that the Eagles have at that position. The Eagles could have signed Morrison or Lofa Tatupa for that same cash, if not less. And had a major upgrade, at least against the run, than Matthews.

Lotupa is stil sitting at home so what does that tell you..Bulluck, as much as i wanted to sign him when he first came available, was a stop gap..Just like Mithcell and the others..Boly was probably the last FA LB we signed to some money since barret Green.

And if you were to look back, the Giants FA LB long term signings haven't really panned out..See Barret green and carlos Emmons..Boley, is still a work in progress..I won't count Lavar because he got injured..

The Eagles wide receivers both practiced Saturday for the first time since the start of training camp, according to the team. The walkthrough is closed to the media.

Read more: http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/inq-eagles/Maclin-and-Smith-practice.html#ixzz1WGZhdVY1
Watch sports videos you won't find anywhere else

CRUZ!!!!

I agree.
And if there is a stink there is usually something rotten nearby.
We could have Smith and his agent lying to all concerned.

It's not just MM, it's everyone in this system that needs to play consistently well with no mistakes. People tend to focus on MM, but the guy is a playmaker. With more reps and balls coming his way I think he can be a big time play maker for us. Same with Nicks. I think Thomas, Hixon, and Cruz all have to step up and mitigate the loss of Smith. Boss's balls may go to them, our TE and who knows our RBs. I am not worried about that. The OL is where the magic happens. Without them, we can't do shit, so that's the area where I'd be more worried and thus focus my attention to when the season starts.

The Giants doctors didn't/don't feel he will be 100% for at least the first quarter of the season. Even if they are wrong, I would take that opinion into heavy consideration when signing a guy.

Just because he is practicing doesn't mean he is really ready. Who's to say he and the Eagles aren't rushing this?

He and Michael Vick may not be the match that he and Eli were. And with Desean Jackson looking for Larry Fitzgerald money and Maclin perhaps making a full recovery from his illness, the Eagles may not be willing to give Smith big money. So he could find himself back on the market next year.

it ain't happening. Manningham is going to be the priority next year..

if he doesn't get hurt.

Smith was supposed to be that guy this year, but an injury got in the way.

which is why I don't have high hopes for this season. Law of averages say some don't. As for MM he needs to focus more and catch the ball more cleanly and run better routes. I think sometimes MM leaves too many potential big plays on the field because he doesn't catch the ball cleanly. On the positive side these are all things he can correct.

story. Right now, though, the biggest worry for me regarding the offensive line is depth. We can live and improve with what we have now, but we really can't afford to lose much.

But getting back to the topic at hand, we all know MM is a playmaker, no doubt about it, but unlike some of the other afforementoned WR's, MM is going to be on the field on almost every play. It's much more imperative that he cut down on the mistakes, or becomes more consistent, whatever phrase one can use, because that is what's going to be the difference between keeping our offense on the field, and our defense off.

We all know what SS brought to our offense, and obviously, we have no idea what he can do going forward, but when he was healthy, he was as good of a security blanket a QB could have.

on the sidelines like some have said on this thread

Quote:

Saturday's practice was Smith's first as an Eagle. "It was great just to be back out there with my teammates and hearing the calls from (quarterback Michael) Vick," he said. "It was really fun." Smith said he's still not 100 percent, but is getting close. "It'll take me a few weeks, but I feel really good right now," he said. "I don't feel like I'm laboring or I can't cut. I'm doing good so far."

smith practicing - ( New Window )

if you friended Smith on Facebook while here, then you know whatever he says you can divide by 10

.

self is yet another. Again, tell me JUST ONE offensive player who had microfracture surgery who returned to his normal pre-injury self? I'll keep asking until I get one name. Don't bother with Colston as he has reinjured that knee

He's still a very young man. He doesn't have to be a great player to contribute based on what they are paying him. Don't hate.

just because he reinjured a knee doesn't mean someone else would.

if you actually read between the lines of the statements it does not seem like he was doing much. He said it does not feel like he can't cut, that does not mean he said HE CUT. or did anything remotely close. Even by his estimation (which people have pointed out he completely bs's on fbook and twitter), he is not 100%. The season starts in two weeks.

In January 2007, Kellen Winslow had microfracture surgery on his knee at the age of 23. Winslow recovered quickly and had his best season as a pro in 2007 with 82 receptions, 1,160 yards, and five TDs.

In January 2007, Kellen Winslow had microfracture surgery on his knee at the age of 23. Winslow recovered quickly and had his best season as a pro in 2007 with 82 receptions, 1,160 yards, and five TDs.

surgery is compensatory problems developing elsewhere. Oft times patients unwittingly compensate for an injured area, more or less in an unconscious(or conscious) protect mode, causing problems in the same or other areas. Yes, it can be a simple development of an independent problem, but most times it's as a result of the performed procedure. How many surgeries has KW had since? How has his production been as compared to his all-pro years?

Sorry, I don't see SS approaching his pre-injury form. Trust me, if proven incorrect on this one, I will be more than happy to admit I was off on this

wont have a very productive year is not due to the surgery, but due to the fact he doesn't have Eli passing to him.

we lt go this off season (Buress,Smith), but the common denominator is Eli. those guys got to be as good as they are due to ELi.

We did not let go of Burress. He was a FA.

especially the national media, don't realize how good Eli makes players. Mike Vick, like Roethlisberger, are excellent when the play breaks down (Vick is also good passing deep). Steve Smith will not thrive with a qb like that.

fact is, we don't have anyone on this team to replace him....

Since Smith is practicing, he is off the PUP......I do think the Eagles, or Smith himself, has rushed this....a big mistake...

Maybe it was the Giant's plan to bring him along slowly, so he would be ready for the second half of the season.....and since they felt he wouldn't be ready until then, they probably low balled him on his contract...as for that 35 mil offer, there is no way Smith did not know about it, if it was offered...he and his agent were looking for more, and the injury screwed their plans....

i really think hixon steps up really big this year. this guy had so much potential if anyone remembers some were claiming he would step up and be the number 1 when plax went and shot himself in the leg. he dropped that bomb from eli vs the eagles and never really lived up to the billing. granted he is coming off a knee injury but if he can be the excellent number 3 receiver that he was in this offense in 08 then i really feel the loss of smith, while still felt, will certainly be lessened with a big year from hixon.

make Steve Smith look good? I'm a Vick hater, but please, that's just ridiculous.

I can't say for certain whether or not Steve Smith will be successful or not. But, if you think Vick's skill set is to hit a guy on a precise cut, I don't hesitate to say you have never watched the guy play before.

and years before, and it's quite obvious there's been a big improvement in his game. He's playing in a west coast offense that isn't limited to either the short passing game or the long. I've seen him hit Maclin and Avant enough on shorter routes to see that isn't a problem for him.

I love Eli, but he's not the reason for Steve Smith's success.

and again vick is not Eli put that in your head.
Eli has 2 4000+ yds passing and 4 3000+ passing yds seasons and last 6 yrs his td numbers are 31,27,21,23,24,24.

Vick only last yr threw for the first time over 3000 yds. with 21TD career yr. So get that out of your heads that Eli and Vick are comparable.

That alone eliminates any means of comparison

be Eli), but to say Vick can't hit a receiver in stride or on a precise cut, then I'd say you were watching Mike Vick from 5 years ago.

Sly Eli

when it calls for bullet throws. It's when the throw requires some touch that he has problems.

saying the whole long haul thing... but on the otherside, he plays the slot and how many hits can that knee take? I hope he stays healthy and am not wishing him harm..but in the grand scheme of things, it remains to be seen if he is going to hold up.

Also- when a player says "Im 100%" I usually value that around 90 %...

When a player says "Not 100% yet" I value that at around maxiumum 75%...