I know he is gone but Steve Smith is now practicing....

injured players who may or not contribute much in 2011, players who face uncertain futures playing in the NFL. This requires making wise fiscal choices.

The salary cap is back, difficult choices ain't easy and sometimes the team makes the right decision even if it's unpopular with their fans.

but don't we have to sit on this awhile, perhaps a great while, before declarations of a fluck up can be proven or disproved? Hey, I have several SS jerseys and I would have loved to sign him long term if he was healthy. As you know, each case is different, but I'll ask a question no one has come forward with an answer to:

Name one OFFENSIVE player who has had this surgery through the years, who returned to what he was?

1) the agent is sleazy and strongly favors the Eagles
2) the only doctor WHO HAS SEEN THE INSIDE OF STEVE'S KNEE told the Giants that recovery would take awhile
3) we have no idea when or if SS will be productive
4) at the time of the no-decision decision (thanks to the sleazy agent) our receiving corps was a relatively strong and deep unit

And from this we conclude that Reese is an idiot?

you want to resign. There are long-term ramifications to making offers to players who may never regain their form.

There are also other players in the coming few years who merit redoing the deal.

It's some sort of perverse hindsight, coupled with foresight that Smith will be what he was before.

if we are talking about a year from now, an we had/have a choice between signing Steve Smith(albeit a healthier SS) or MM, I'd go with Smith. He's the guy who consistently moved the chains for us.

It is what it is now, but allowing yourself to pin the blame on Dogra is just silly, these players are not angels. They know what's going on with what they are offered.

I thought Colston had the surgery and had a 1000 yards last year. Although I think he screwed up his other knee.

Files are available by request. But the question is, can this info be declared to the world without his permission?

surgery, the goal is to regrow cartilage in the knee. The Giant's doctors were looking out for Smith's long term health and were giving his knee enough time to fully repair and regrow before putting him back on the field like they did with Kenny.

The Eagles on the other hand may consider Smith a 1 yr rental so even though his knee isn't healed, they're going to play him, run him into the ground and cut him at the end of the yr. If his knee swells up mid season they'll just drain it or give him an injection and send him back out.

Steve Smith joined the dark side. Now he might have to pay a big price because of it.

you could be right, but I thought it was the Same knee, no?

is there a difference between Kenny Phillips injury and Steve Smith's?

But how does HIPPA work with injury reports?

barens, I respectfully disagree. I think 3 years down the road Manningham is going to be putting up monster numbers on a very consistent basis.

and offer up that propsoed deal as fact. The Giant FO have just recently said they engage in "offseason chatter" with players. It is hard for me to believe that the Giants had some contract on the side ready just for SS to sign without first engaging the player in negotiation to get to some number range. I think both sides have embellish on the truth to save face regarding that propose contract.

I wish the info can be shown. That would help in clarifying a lot. Where is that unnamed source when you need him? lol. Can a doctor in this team setting decline as well? Perhaps say to the other doctor we are on two different teams so no. Or is that bad form on our part?

I understand where you are coming from. I'm just still very angry about the Smith loss. I understand why we were limited players in FA and I understood losing Boss. This one I just think will turn out to be a big mistake and while I don't really think Reese should be fired. I'm not going to sit here and pretend that I think everything is ok.

that Smith's agent seems to have some sort of weird relationship with the Eagles. However, it seems that he is just good at getting money out of Roseman. Everyone says the Eagles were so great in getting Nnamdi. In fact, not really. What happened. The Jets and the Cowboys offered Nnamdi 10, Dogra told roseman to "BE BOLD" and he offered 12. Paying the highest money is not some sort of genius move. With Smith, the Eagles offered him way more than we offered him. Now, there are a lot of weird things going on and with the two of them, but in the end it just seems like the Eagles are paying the most money to Dogra's clients.

Given the serious knee injury, would you really rather tie up big money in Smith and risk losing a more talented, healthy player? I wouldn't.

I believe he has to then either go on IR or the team has to leave him active is he is coming back.

Just like with every player you weigh your risk, the Giants felt he was a big risk for this season. the Eagles also thought he was a risk which is why they only offered a 1 year deal. even if he plays he will struggle his 1st year back as just about every player does.

move on, this season he is no better than what we have anyway.

John Mara said it was absolutely made.

The eagle offer was barely more than the giant offer this year and the clown who said he wanted to be a giant for life doesn't even see if that team was willing to match an offer that barely beat their first one?

You guys can continue to claim Reese fucked up majorly but the truth is Reese really wasn't given a chance to fuck up in this case.

Facts kinda point directly to smith and/or dogra having zero intention of re-signing here.

But keep blaming our FO that really wanted him back and wasn't given a chance to make him the higher offer. Not like an agent isn't supposed to try and get the best deal for his client by shopping around offers...

People don't think that stinks to high heaven?

Reb: But if there is a screw-up, shouldn't the doctors be held to task and not Reese?

barens: who knows...From what I recall and perhaps others can chime in either way, the report post-op was that this was a more difficult MF surgery than normal and was at the the time, possibly deemed career-threatening..

Okie: I don't know and why I raised the question

I'd say: Smith is rare in the sense that we know for certain he can make cluctch plays in the Super Bowl. I dont need to illuminate with examples. He is a winning type player whose strenths on the field coincide with championship football. Smart, a great route runner, spectaular hands and the like. Stop and think how much better the Giants would look right now if Smith just returned to their camp. Reese did this offseason by siging Baas. But overall, it is clear, just looking at the replacements, that the Giants didn't intend to loose all that they did, and that there is every reason to be concerned that absent a TE threat over the middle, the Giants will struggle to pass this year.

G Gs Rec yds avg Long TD
15 11 86 848 9.9 35 7


This without Randy Moss

numbers if he isn't already, but all things being equal, and by all things, I mean healthy knees, I'd go with Smith. Without Smith, our offense seems to go three and out a whole bunch, and then all of a sudden, we'll get a big play from Manningham, and so on and so forth. You have to admit, we do miss that guy who was able to move the chains for us.

But anyway, like others have said, I don't blame anyone for Smith being gone, and it's nowhere near clear who was right or wrong.

Wes Welker did NOT have microfracture surgery, iirc..Apples and oranges

Giants Low balled SS

I do not think that you can find a bigger supporter of Jerry Reese on this board than me. I think he is a top notch talent evaluator, especially of college kids. His record as GM and before that as our chief personnel guy is impeccable. The FA signings have been worse, but those are always hard. I do not blame Reese for Smith, because in the end, I think you are right Smith should have come back to us. I will say, however, that I thought we should have signed him much earlier in the signing process and never let him leave the room. I think we did try to lowball Smith, and I think it hurt us in the end. But, because Smith was a turd and never gave us at least the chance to match or surpass, I think Reese gets a pass. It is a tough call and some criticism of our front office is not unwarranted.

Lemme rephrase that. Giants took SS for granted and then low balled him. SS did the right thing IMO

...are 2 different things.

But I guess we should just jump to conclusions and be reactionary as always. Docs suck, Reese sucks. Yep.

we have no idea if the giants would have matched or up that offer thanks to... Reese or the agent/smith?

see my 1:55...Our posts crossed

I think had Reese been more aggressive to resign Smith earlier on, I think that he probably could have signed him to a reasonable short term contract for both sides. I don't believe in that case it would have been either Smith or Manningham.

Over smith.

Smith was under no obligation to shop the deal back to us. We do the same thing in that we don't allow potential FAs to shop our offers either.

The doctrine of infallibility is in full effect...

at no point did Mara or Reese see Smith at the facility, on the field, the parking lot, hell in the bath room and ask him did he have a chance to speak with his agent? I don't know if that is reasonable. Were they just saying hi and bye, wishing him happy holidays without saying "Hey Steve we just offer you a contract and your agent said no thanks. What are you looking for? Can we talk about it?"

As an organization you should look long term to. Ok so Giants sign SS but comes bacm mid season. Heck he could even help us get into playoffs no? BUT what about next yr and the yr after. this is a guy afterall you holds Teams reception record, he's not an avg receiver.

Paul, you can say that again.

got it>:)

fuck ton more guaranteed money the previous year that he or his agent turned down.

If smith came back to the giants with the eagle offer and we one upped them and he re-signed, did we still lowball?

Paul, doctrine of infallibility my ass. I can go through an entire list of Reese mistakes in his short tenure.

This ain't one of 'em. You guys whining about this shit need to pull the tampons out. Smith is a fucking Philadelphia Eagle. Fuck. Him.

How? There's no saying whether or not he ever returns to what he was, seeing as how his abilities were predicated on sharp cuts and precise routes.

It also must use some foresight, seeing that we have no idea how he responds to this.

My guess is that the Giants medical staff went with the long-term diagnosis, instead of the short-term, due to a myriad of reasons (one of which was protecting his career).

...

He's coming off microfracture surgery. There's no guarantee he'll be the same guy he was. What if we signed him long-term and he wasn't the same and then we couldn't afford to re-sign Mario? That sounds like a pretty shitty scenario to me.

Its funny that that only came out after he left isnt it? Why didnt Management say last yr the offer we made him???I think Giants were shocked he left and were trying to save face. Its he said , she said thing.
But we do know of the lowball offer to SS

Beckum looking pretty bad, both might still redeem but they look like mistakes.

Barden, possibly another waste of a trade up.

CC Brown. Safety Depth.
Boley, meh signing, not a mistake but still meh.
Dan Sheridan, god awful mistake.


And Paul, no dogra has no obligation to go back to the giants with an offer. But if I'm a player and I want THE MOST MONEY in my deal, my agent is shopping around the best offer until there is no more best offer. Get it? Or is that too complex for you?

to bring the offer match, but if his job is to get max money for Smith, then you have to bring the offer back to see if we match. If we do, then you try to create a bidding war. More money for Smith means more money for the agent. Now if Smith is mad that Coughlin said "long haul" then fine. But if Smith claimed to love NY and it's fans and all that shit, then one would think he would want to come back. But an agent's job is to get max money for his client. So in my opinion you should bring the offer back to us, and see if we would match. Then you take offer back to the Eagles, and so on.

go for it.

didn't think that was so difficult for people to understand

right up until the moment I saw him play.

Then I knew it was a mistake!

Sounds like you're becoming a little unhinged. There's no telling how the negotiation with the Eagles went down, but it's likely they wouldn't give him the opportunity to shop it. The Giants have the same policy.

Then yes, Reese messed up by not courting him more. Smith may not like the fact he helped them win a SB and got maybe not a great deal out of it.

I'm just fine, I just don't like bullshit being spouted to support a weak point to begin with.

'There's no telling how the negotiation with the Eagles went down, but it's likely they wouldn't give him the opportunity to shop it. The Giants have the same policy.'

Where's your crystal ball saying the eagles offer was take it or leave it? And why would it be take it or leave it if dogra has such a good relationship with them?

And uh, giants have the same policy? Reese offered 4 guys contracts and basically said shop the offers around and come back, we'll see what works.

Giants fans were in uproar upon finding out SS signed with eagles. Its funny that Osi was promised a renegotion by management and when he pulls off his whining bbi supports managment , so in that case management doesnt feel the need to save face, but In SS case fans are angry and in uproar for leaving Giants and management comes in to save their faces. funny isnt it. Soemthing smells in this management and I dont like it and neither will players or future players.