So I decided to rewatch some parts of the Monday night game on NFL rewind and there's some key plays that allow you to view them via the coaches film option. One of the reasons I love NFL Rewind to be honest.
I don't know if any other Giants fans have it but I'll post a few thoughts for anyone who's interested and has access to view the videos. It sucks that I don't have the video to go along with this but....
1. The first is the interception by Mikell on the deep pass to Mario Manningham.
Eli gets a single safety look here with the zone pressure the Rams are bringing. Mario thoroughly beats the corner back though looking at the film the CB stops allowing Mario to run free and then starts moving again to close the gap (though he's so far behind...) so it's possible they were baiting him to make the throw. Either that or the CB was just totally lost on the route Mario was running. Regardless, the ball is under thrown and Eli underestimated Mikell's ability to move to that side of the field as quickly as he did. Mikell makes an excellent play here.
The worst part about is that Ballard runs a quick little out route towards the sidelines and is obviously the check down. He has NO ONE around him. Had Eli checked down. that would have been a 15-20 yd gain and put us 1st and goal inside the 20.
2. The second play is Bradford's deep pass to Alexander for 68 yards. (1st Qtr)
The good stuff:
Kenny Phillips is the FS playing deep center field and either Boley or Rolle are playing the slot. Boley/Rolle actually has pretty decent coverage and Phillips is providing proper support. No throw to be made in the center of the field.
On the other side of the field, Webster is pretty much stride for stride with his man. Totally covered and no where for Bradford to throw.
The bad stuff:
The coverage on the other side of the field is so fucking broken here I don't even know where to begin. Aaron Ross is supposed to press the receiver at the line and boy does he fail miserably. He literally gets half a hand on him before Alexander blows right by him. I mean he's literally 4 yards behind Ross before the ball is even thrown. That's not even the beginning of the problems with this play though. Grant is playing down close to the line and is late backing up so Ross has little to no support over the top. Both are in a trailing position before the ball ever comes out. Once the ball arrives Ross and Grant are both 2 yards behind the receiver and can make no play on it. The REALLY bad part is that they don't down the guy! Come on, man!
3. Bradford 26 yard completion to Lance Kendricks (2nd QTR).
Zone coverage here by Webster. Deon Grant is playing the other half of the field and there's just no way he can get over to offer any over the top help on this.
Webster is playing 5 yards off of his man and while Kendricks is running his route, Webster breaks to the outside and then runs straight back towards him. He's actually in a good position to make a play on the ball but he can't reach out far enough to get a hand on it. Coverage wasn't terrible but a bit better route recognition could have lead to an INT or at the very least a pass defense. Zone has never been Corey's forte and it shows here.
4. Bradford 33 yard completion to Simms Walker (2nd Qtr).
More Zone coverage. Simms-Walker literally runs right past the linebacker to the center of the field after a play action by Bradford. Phillips is playing deep and keeps backing up despite the fact that the linebacker already bit. Ross and Rolle are covering the one side of the field well enough while Boley hands off the other receiver to Webster.
Phillips could have and probably should have made this play a lesser gain but it seems like he expected the linebacker to cover here. There was still avoid in the zone coverage in the middle of the field though Kenny shouldn't have continued playing so deep if he recognized that. Not sure if that was communication problem or just broken coverage because the linebacker bit so hard on the PA.
5. Bradford 35 yard completion to Alexander (3rd qtr)
I could copy and paste what I said about the 68yd completion earlier. Ross playing press at the line. The guy totally whiffs by him as though he wasn't even there. He's in a trail position by the time the snap is off. Grant is playing the free safety here and his recognition is terrible. He's already on that side of the right side of the field and when Bradford releases the ball he takes a step in the wrong direction and then turns around and starts running towards the direction of the receiver. The angle isn't bad but he's so late getting there it doesn't make a lick of difference. Ball caught and Aaron Ross is on the ground 2 yards behind the receiver.
6. 19yd completion to Alexander for the TD (3rd QTR)
Ross is out, Coe is in. Same results. Alexander runs a sluggo route to the outside of the end zone. Coe is in good position to make a play on the ball and he literally just watches it go into his hands and then acts confused about what happened. No jump for the ball, no hands in the receivers chest/face to knock it loose. No safety help on this play since they were playing at or near the line for run support. A good play call by the Rams and poor coverage equals a TD.
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So what do I take from this? Nothing new. Aaron Ross is terrible and the players behind him aren't any better. The left side of the field will be a gaping hole for us all season long until we get improvement out of the players we have or pick someone up. Also, the only safety that's worth a damn in pass support on the field is Kenny Phillips.
All three can be fixed this season. a) with Prince coming back and (hopefully) outperforming Ross, b) with time, and c) Grant playing less with Rolle moving back to safety.
I was sitting in that corner of the endzone and watched grossman birddog armstrong... ross never turned around, never knew the ball was in the air... several giants fans around us yelled "ross watch the corner fade"
ross never laid a hand on him... everyone is gonna run that play against us cause it will work everytime...
Good call on the int thrown by Eli. May have been a complete bait job.
What's scary is the regression Ross has made since 2007. He won the Thorpe award and was a strong press corner, I don't know what happened and I fear the game on Sunday. Last season the CBs went towards more of a press look against Mac and Jack to disrupt the Eagles timing. Have a feeling Ross is going to give up a long one.
has a very good game against the Jets . I thought
geesh maybe he needed another chance well he did and
he proved to be the Ross we have seen for the past few years
he just seems so herky jerky and bites on everything .
One thing to look forward to is Prince if he can get healthy and get a bunch of reps . Who knows the season may be a
total wash by then . But at least we have some promising looking younger players . Were just snake bit this year .
I rather have Ross on Maclin..
Wow, i never thought Ross was that bad in coverage..He does still make plays in tghe short game infron of him but he is easily beaten if the WR and QB has time..
This one of the reasons I want to put my fist through the screen:
greekgod : 10:45 am
follow the Eagles and Giants since 1952 and this is what they are saying....Eagles are good; Giants are bad. No shit!
Eagles: 48
Giants: 3
Rumors are swaying in the wind that top overhaul if Giants don't make it to the playoffs; and that includes Reese and Coughlin.
I really think Reese needs to go out and find a corner. It doesn't have to be anyone spectacular but if you can find a decent corner to play opposite Webster for a 3rd or 4th round pick then you go and do that.
"The Giants had lined up in a double TE set with FB Henry Hynoski and Bradshaw in the backfield with Manningham and Nicks lined up wide to each side of Manning. Facing an 8 man front, Manning had single high safety and man coverage on his wideouts. TE Jake Ballard released all alone, with no one within 5 yards of him, into the right flat while St Louis brought all eight at Manning.
Mario Manningham went right by Rams CB Justin King, who was caught cheating down on Ballard. Eli, bird dogging Manningham the whole way, underthrew him and S Quinten Mikell came from the middle of the field for a relatively easy interception."
I disagree w/ MoM about the '07 version of Ross however, because he was pretty solid in his rookie year. Solid against the run, made some plays blitzing off the corner, and decent in coverage. Had a couple of INT's and a pick 6 in a game. He never looked like he had the potential to be a no.1 corner, but he appeared to be shaping into a solid no.2. Now he's just a shell of his former self, and he's going to get picked on until Prince gets the nod over him.
Another bit of analysis/opinion...
What this team has is both a personnel and execution problems. Not just on defense either. Personnel from not only the standpoint of injuries but also lost free agents. I know folks won't like to hear it but Steve Smith is proving to be a massive loss to this offense (I mentioned to several folks I know that he was a more important resigning than Bradshaw). Gilbride knows it, Coughlin knows it and while Eli wants to show confidence in the guys he has, you can see the level of trust on the field and out inability to convert third downs play out each and every game we've seen since the preseason.
What Steve Smith brought to the offense was precise route running and a complete understanding of the various option routes that Gilbride/Coughlin run. You simply cannot plug and play players into that role. You can't take a Victor Cruz and expect that level of performance from the slot position out of him without serious time and reps. The lack of OTA's and a real training camp just makes it all the more problematic.
You add in a remade offensive line with a new center, left tackle and Diehl sliding into the guard position and you add another layer to the execution issues. Both in pass protection and run blocking. Those are both personnel and execution problems that CAN be resolved with time and reps as well as a little mental resolve which this team seems to really lack at times.
Monday night was a perfect example. Really take a look at the opening drive prior to the interception. The offense was clicking! PA bootleg to the right netted a 16 yard completion to Manningham. Two next two runs showed off some great zone blocking with the line pushing the Rams to the left and allowing Bradshaw to cut it back to the right for 7 and 5 yards. Even the WR's got some awesome blocks. The next run has Bradshaw break yet again on some FANTASTIC zone blocking with the line pushing the Rams to the right and the cutback lane being wide open to the right to the run of 15 yards. The five plays out of six were wonderfully executed -then the interception. The next couple of series? Everything breaks down. The blocking goes to shit and Eli can't complete a pass to save his life. That's screams mental discipline to me. That tells me that when things don't go their way, they don't come back with a need to impose their will - but instead start searching for answers and trying to do more than their assignments. Players are then caught out of position, blocking breaks down, communication goes down the tubes. I know Coughlin isn't that type of coach either so it has to come back to players trusting the personnel to do what it's supposed to which realistically isn't there right now.
It is all bad? No. This offense WILL click. It needs time. We may not go all the way this year, we may not even hit the playoffs but I trust that theses young guys will learn. Execution is key.
Shaun O'Hara did a fantastic interview a few years ago where he told a story about the offensive line in 2008 being lined up and calling a counter play to the right behind Snee. Eli made the call, O'Hara set the blocking and he knew the MLB was aware of the play. He literally heard him yell "RUN! RUN! RUN!" and shift the defense to the right. Despite them knowing that, the Giants still ran for 15 yards. He said this was common and the reason? They could know about it all day but they executed it so well, it didn't matter.
What does that say? Well, for all of those that detest Gilbride, there's something to be said for predictability. Can he call a bad game? Hell yes, the Washington game is a prime example but if players EXECUTE, you see things like the 4th and 1 on Monday night converted (the play call wasn't the issue folks, the absolutely HORRENDOUS blocking was).
Defensively, I know the secondary is concerning but the defensive line quietly had itself one hell of a night! Excellent push up the middle, Tuck made a huge difference being back out there and Canty played his ass off. I was listening to the Giants.com post show and just about fell out of my chair when someone called in and said Canty was a free agent bust - WTF? Did we overpay a bit for him? Maybe but when he got healthy, he's been a beast. Drawing holding calls, pushing through the line and allowing our D-Ends to get to the QB. Oh and he and the others can really play the run. Anyone else notice Bernard having his best game as a Giant?
There's reasons to be optimistic but Coughlin isn't wrong in saying the 2011 Giants are work in progress but that will improve with time, reps and football gods willing - HEALTH!
If Eli gets the throw deep enough to hit MM in stride, OR (more likely the error) Eli makes the read and react quicker and gets the ball out of his hand faster before MM is so far up field - that's an easy quick six. Eli has no business checking down on that play with MM free and clear up the sideline, IMO, regardless of how wide open Ballard was. As you wrote, Ballard was the check down option not the primary read.
It's a passing league but our QB may not be suited for the wide open passing game. Look at the young QB's then go look at Eli man it's night and day and not in Eli favor. Brady could throw to your grandmother and look good doing it Eli makes passing to our guys a major undertaking. The real scary thing for me is that each day he is getting older and not much better at all. We played two below average teams and our QB still seems lost in this offense.
( this is from memory at a bar after a few beers, so I could be wrong )
What struck me as odd was, why is the ball thrown inside MM and not outside ( even if underthrown )...
Am I remembering this correctly ? ( seems not but like to hear from someone who has seen the replay )
In 2008, we had an OLine, TE and FB that could all whip the guy in front of them even if the D knew what was coming.
Ain't happenin' in 2011 so far.
MM either...
Broke inside on a skinny post,
Came back on an inside curl
Or as he tracked the ball going outside along his original route... Tangled himself and went to the turf...
All I know is that the safety made the catch from the middle of the field... While mm was on the turf untouched looking on...
Then, if you really like doing this, break down all of our run plays and find where the issues are.
It will be interesting to see whether your analysis is aligned with what I saw last night.
One other thing: during the Superbowl run @ Dallas we had a guy off the practice squad come on in - very fast, never heard from him again. Played ok. Seemed like all year Spags had his men ready to play their positions. Just sayin.
On the pick, I agree with margi. Eli made the right choice there. He just under threw the ball. I know the announcers made a big deal about him not seeing Mickel or him baiting Eli or whatever, but the reality of it is Mickel a) was forked with a good throw and b) made a great play on the ball. I don't know if anyone asked Eli about this one (bad decision or bad throw) but I'd bet if they did he'd pick the latter.
I agree with the sentiment on Canty but frankly I don't think as a unit the DL had nearly the pressure we needed or I expected. I haven't watched the film but my recollection is no blitz, no pressure.
What about the idea of having several BBIers with Rewind do this on a regular basis?
This analysis was far better and more detailed than what you'll see anywhere else.
For example, one person could review OL only....another LBs, etc.
We'd need volunteers, but i'd be glad to get Rewind and contribute (although there are plenty of people here with a deeper understanding of the game).
We'd get more great threads like this, and collectively we'd all learn more about our team, players, and more importantly the action none of us see on tv.
Hopefully the OL will get better with Reps, people under estimate the OL changes we have made and its effect on the lines execution. Reps will make it get better and better, question is, will it be this year or next year? we really miss Richie..
These are the same guys that will call him a bust the first time he allows a deep completion.
As for Ross, it seems the biggest problem the other night (and it was visable during the replays) was his complete failure to get an effective jam at the LOS. He MUST get a good jam, especially with someone like Grant providing help who's sooooooo sloooooooow.
I'm not wanting to come off as though I have some hatred for Ross here. I would love for him to improve and show some of what he had in the 2007 season. I'm just calling what I see and he had a poor game on Monday and his game against Washington wasn't any better.
I'd actually like to take a look at some of the blocking on the run plays as well to see what the offensive line is doing. I usually watch the games again when avaiable so maybe I'll make this a semi-regular thing.
Thanks again for the kind words and the opposing viewpoints on the plays. I'm enjoying reading them.
I hate to say it but it looks to me like Ross is in physical decline. He's getting beat at the LOS because he's weak and he loses ground deep because he's slow. If you didn't know he was a 2007 #1 pick, you'd thing he was an aging vet scrub in there because we lost our starter and Fewell is grasping at straws.
Webster has not been great by any stretch given the level we've seen him play on in the past, but opposing QBs are completing less than 50% of their passes when targeting him. 10 for 21 on the season for 147 yards, 1 TD. He's actually been targeted more than Ross, it does not seem that way. But hes allowing completions on just 47.6% of the passes at him
Jacobs and Bradshaw are both among the league leaders in forced missed tackles, combining for 15 through 2 weeks. Yet we haven't run the ball all that well overall. Here is their preview
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