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Forget the Cruz Stuff, that Crew Sucked All Game!

FatMan in Charlotte : 10/3/2011 8:37 am
Jerome Boger's crew is consistently an embarassment to the NFL. I know there will be a lot of discussion about the Cruz play and I'll keep my comments pretty short on that - it is probably the one call they actually got right! Cruz made no effort to advance the ball and I'm surprised the Cards are going to bitch so loudly on that - they didn't make a play - they are hoping to just be rewarded by another player's carelessness. That aside, the officiating was a joke.

- Opening kickoff, there is a scuffle after the play and a Cardinal player throws a punch. Giant who was punched runs off the field clapping, thinking a penalty is coming. None does.

- Second half kickoff - Cards return to the 27. Maybe this is where the wonders of TV make Boger look worse, but it is said that the Cards get a delay of game call. Ball is at the 22 now, BUT it is still 1st and 10. First down is a fumble, that I thought the Giants recovered (I might be wrong). Boger's crew rules the runner down, but spots the ball where the Giants recovered, giving them 3 extra yards.

- Coughlin is charged with a time-out even though he makes the call while the Cards throw a challenge flag. You are only supposed to be given a timeout if a challenge is made DURING a timeout. Otherwise, you are supposed to be give the timeout back.

- Snee was getting away with holding all game long, yet the one they chose to call looked like he actually erred by releasing the guy without holding, giving the defender a clear path to Eli.

- Bernard is called for roughing because it LOOKED like his helmet was going to strike the QB.

- We had a series where Snee and Hynoski were called for holds on back to back plays and on the ensuing drive the Cards visibly hold the jerseys of Joseph and Osi on back to back plays as they are releasing to rush the QB and yet neither is called. Both non-holds affect the play since the defenders were delayed just enough to miss a sack.

- Ball spots for both teams were poor, consistently being spotted almost a yeard from where they should have been. Even though it was a moot point, even on the review of Ballard's first possible TD, he is clearly at the 1/2 yard line or closer and they rule he was down at the 1.

Boger's crew needs to seriously be looked at by the NFL. Unfortunately, they will probably draw the most fire for making the right call on the most visible play - but if that's what it will take to get them out, I'd take it.

A bad, bad game where calls afffected both teams adversely.
I agree on all points  
cjac : 10/3/2011 8:39 am : link
they were awful.
when a DL is running at the QB  
cjac : 10/3/2011 8:40 am : link
and his shirt is being stretched out behind him like that, i have no idea how that is not called.
The Bernard call  
Porkins : 10/3/2011 8:42 am : link
was one of the worst calls I had seen in a long, long time against the Giants
Coughlin  
pjcas18 : 10/3/2011 8:43 am : link
called time out before Wisenhunt threw the challenge flag. It was pretty clear on the replays. Why should Coughlin get the time out back or are you saying the Cards can no longer challenge the play?
Wait,  
Peter in Atlanta : 10/3/2011 8:43 am : link
you're only supposed to start these threads after a loss so people can misinterpret them.

I agree on all counts. I screamed that he threw a punch. I rewound it for my wife to see. How does the official not see his head snap to the side.
They were bad  
Motley Blue : 10/3/2011 8:46 am : link
and no call for spinning Eli & slamming him to the turf after the ball was gone.

I don't really care about those being called, but I do if it's not being called both ways.
There  
PaulN : 10/3/2011 8:49 am : link
Were some bad calls yesterday, but come on already, acting like this was an all time offcials nightmare is ridiculous. You want to watch horrendous refereeing, watch a Steeler game, and yesterday was not any different, they get every call under the sun, its a miracle they did not win with all the help they got yesterday. The Giants game was no big deal. Plus the Giants did get the big call at the end, jusy be happy and shut up about it, that is what the Giants are doing, even Eli said they caught a break. i thought he fell on purpose, but Cruz said he thought he was touched down. That means he did not go down on purpose and it was a bad call, so lets just cut the crap with the refs.
I was going to start a thread on this today....  
Britt in VA : 10/3/2011 8:49 am : link
glad you did.
Agree  
Some Fan : 10/3/2011 8:50 am : link
Ironic that the Cruz call is most controversial but a correct call amidst abysmal calls or non-calls that get no mention.
Incredibly lousy officiating...  
silverfox : 10/3/2011 8:52 am : link
...around the league this season, generally speaking. I think the Cruz call was the correct interpretation of the rule. I know when I saw him catch the ball I was thinking to myself..."get down, don't try to advance the ball". It sure looked to me like that is exactly what he did.

Hopefully he will be coached to "stay down" once he is on the ground in a situation like that so others can't interpret that he was trying to continue to advance the ball, or risk having the ball stripped out.
How many calls and yards against the Giants....  
Britt in VA : 10/3/2011 8:55 am : link
compared to the Cards. I felt it was lopsided. Anybody got the numbers?
Paul  
Giants11 : 10/3/2011 8:56 am : link
a lot of people are going to make the mistake of only listening to the first part of Cruz's answer when asked about the play. Yes he said that, but if you listen to the follow up question when the reporter asked him to elaborate on the play he said something to the affect of he saw the 2 guys closing in on him and went down on purpose. I agree the officiating was "curious" at times, especially seeing as we were getting flagged(mostly legit) for holding a tomn and it seems like our DE/DT's have been getting mauled all year with few calls...
Britt, when they showed the stat  
Randy in CT : 10/3/2011 8:57 am : link
later in the game, the Cards had way more penalties and yards which surprised me.
cjac..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/3/2011 9:00 am : link
I could see that being let go if they let all the holds go, but they had just called two on us for less offenses. You have to be consistent.
It was hard to tell from the camera angle  
AikoAiko : 10/3/2011 9:01 am : link
but it sure looked like Eli got hit in the head while he was scrambling before the Cruz play. His head got jerked around pretty good I just couldn't tell if it was the Cardinal or the Giant who was blocking him. They never showed a close shot to see who was involved or even mentioned it.
I'm sure Cardinals fans were bitching  
jgambrosio : 10/3/2011 9:02 am : link
I only caught the second half of the game since I was in class, but there was one PI call that benefited us on Cruz in the second to last or last drive that didn't really look like it warranted PI and kept our drive alive.
pjcas  
moze1021 : 10/3/2011 9:03 am : link
Fox showed the Coughlin TO and the Wisenhut flag throw on a replay...they were pretty much simultaneous... within 1-2 seconds of each other..
I started this thread because...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/3/2011 9:03 am : link
Boger's team is bad week in and week out. I don't care if the Giants won or lost when it comes to officiating eing poor. It was poor against BOTH teams.

As for TC's timeout and the challenge, FOX had a replay that showed TC calling timeout as the flag was being thrown. You are only supposed to be charged with a timeout if the challenge is made after the play is stopped due to a timeout. If they happen at or near the same time, the challenge supercedes the timeout.
that  
Steve in Greenwich : 10/3/2011 9:06 am : link
Coughlin time out was just plain bad on the Giants end. The Cardinals had 2 seconds on the play clock and Kolb wasn't ready behind center. Coughlin should have never even called for the time out. I believe Wisenhunt only challenged the play because he knew he was going to get a delay of game if he didn't burn a time out; might as well get a long timeout with the challenge. They made the right call charging the Giants the timeout, something that they should have never even called for.
could be wrong but it looked to  
oghwga : 10/3/2011 9:08 am : link
me like TC was calling the timeout but our defense was also calling TO on the field which is what the referee saw when he stopped the action. I didn't DVR it but it looked pretty clear to me like the TO was called on the field.

Hard to tell but you can't argue that TC wanted a TO there and he asked for it AND he didn't see the red flag so charging us for it hardly seems unreasonable.
That crew should be embarrassed.  
kmed : 10/3/2011 9:10 am : link
That was an awful game for them. So many awful calls on both sides.
Steve  
MetsAreBack : 10/3/2011 9:11 am : link
your theory makes no sense on any level. If Whisenhunt was worried about a delay of game, he would have just used one of his 3 timeouts at the time. Not waste a challenge.
That challenge  
MetsAreBack : 10/3/2011 9:12 am : link
another reminder of how good we have it with Coughlin and his staff. We dont see braindead challenges like that from our guys.
The TO by Coughlin and the challenge  
kmed : 10/3/2011 9:12 am : link
were made at the exact same time. We should have gotten the TO back.
Oh man,  
kmed : 10/3/2011 9:13 am : link
one of the dumbest challenges ever. Why did they challenge that?
sorry Mets  
Steve in Greenwich : 10/3/2011 9:14 am : link
I guess I am wrong on every level then. You clearly have vast football knowledge. No coach would benefit from the extra minute and a half of time to game plan a goal line stand. It's preposterous to think with 5 minutes left in the game and 2 challenges that a coach would use one to extend his time. I bow before your football knowledge. He clearly challenged it because he knew he would despite every angle clearly showing he was wrong.
Not sure what game you watched Kmed  
pjcas18 : 10/3/2011 9:14 am : link
they showed split-screen and half the Giants D were signaling TO before the challenge flag left Wisenhunts pocket.
* knew he would win  
Steve in Greenwich : 10/3/2011 9:15 am : link
-
Coughlin TO  
stretch234 : 10/3/2011 9:15 am : link
On the replay they looked close. However, Coughlin is running toward an official to call the TO. The red flag just gets tossed. To the officials, it probably seemed that the TO was called first.

Steve - no reason to be stubborn  
MetsAreBack : 10/3/2011 9:19 am : link
your theory lacks common sense. Nothing to do with "vast football knowledge" whatever that means.

Greenwich is a nice place though - congrats on being from there.
Maybe a different channel?  
kmed : 10/3/2011 9:20 am : link
The split screen they showed on tv showed them calling it at the exact same time.
I wonder how much the positioning  
SwirlingEddie : 10/3/2011 9:25 am : link
of the officials is contributing to these missed calls on jersey grabs by the OL. It feels like I've seen a bunch of these plays not called this year and I wonder if the positioning of the umpire behind the line is contributing to this as no one can see the backs of the DL clearly and consistently now.
It is somewhat irrelevant..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/3/2011 9:26 am : link
on if it happened simulaneously or a few seconds apart. Unless they've changed the rule, a team that has called a timeout gets it back if a challange is made before the timeout is announced. At the very least, the refs should have realized that whistles were blowing for both events and that time had not yet been called.

In a game just last year, Belichick got a timeout back when Ryan challenged a play during the timeout. The explanation given on the field was that the challenge flag was thrown before the timeout had been officially recorded. How a timeout can be recorded and written down in a split second is hard for me to comprehend, but is further instance of how Boger's team cannot control a game.
yep  
Steve in Greenwich : 10/3/2011 9:26 am : link
stubborn to think a coach with 2 challenges and only 3 minutes left to use prior to all booth reviews them would use one of them to garner some extra game planning time. But as you said, I lack common sense so I must be wrong. And yes, Greenwich is a nice place, thank you.
If that game had been officiated properly, the cardinals would have  
Mellowmood92 : 10/3/2011 9:33 am : link
been close to 200 yards in penalties, easily. They got away with A LOT (however, so did the giants)

I also don't know if I can deal with another game called by Daryl Johnston.
No only was the officiating sucky...  
okiegiant : 10/3/2011 9:40 am : link
and it has been league wide for awhile, the officiating guru dude(can't spell his name)comes across as clueless most of the time.

Johnston made me laugh...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/3/2011 9:40 am : link
when instead of criticizing the poor calls on Hynoski and Bernard called Bernard's a "teaching moment" where he can't give the appearance of leading with his helmet (even when you don't hit anything with it) and Hynoski can't "put himself in a position" to be called for a hold.

Those are two of the most asinine statements I have ever heard.
No = Not...  
okiegiant : 10/3/2011 9:40 am : link
.
One of the worst start to finish  
Giant Mike : 10/3/2011 9:42 am : link
officiated games I have ever seen, ever, on any level.

Before Eli's heroics we were about to lose a game that should have been someting like a 24-6 Giants win. And we would have been listening to a good portion of the BBI tell us that officials don't decide outcomes of football games.

Jerome Boger and his crew are always bad... I cringed the first time I saw him yesterday and it got worse from there.
Can't stand Boger  
NNJ Tom : 10/3/2011 9:44 am : link
his voice is like Truman Capote. Drives me nuts.

Also, he seems to lack any common sense. Why would the Giants take 3 points of the board and re-kick a field goal with a kicker who is on the ground in pain?

They truly sucked yesterday, but the calls tended to even out.
I Agree That Crew Was Really Bad  
Trainmaster : 10/3/2011 9:44 am : link
both in the number of penalties called and the bad calls themselves. I had watching a game when you expect most big plays (both for or against your team) to be called back.

Worst officiating game since a 2003 game I attended in Washington (15 penalties against the Giants and 17 against the Redskins).
Screamed at the television after this coment.  
Beez : 10/3/2011 9:47 am : link
WTF?

Quote:
Hynoski can't "put himself in a position" to be called for a hold.


Another, on the intentional grounding call (which was a good call)  
Andy in Halifax : 10/3/2011 9:48 am : link
they spotted the ball around the 38 when the ball was clearly released at the 35. That wasn't one of the more egregious ones though.

I thought that was one of the poorest officiated games I've seen in a long time. So many calls they missed and so many call they did make were poor calls. Not one sided particularly, just inept.
Not sure if someone else mentioned it  
cnuke : 10/3/2011 9:49 am : link
but, I think the Cards recovered the fumble you mentioned.
NNJ Tom...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/3/2011 9:51 am : link
I wasn't just this:
Quote:
Also, he seems to lack any common sense. Why would the Giants take 3 points of the board and re-kick a field goal with a kicker who is on the ground in pain?


Why would the Giants take 3 points of the board with no time left on the clock before the half!! Unless they were trailing at the end of teh game, they'd almost always take the 3 and head to the locker room.
cnuke...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/3/2011 9:52 am : link
I meant to go back and rewind that play, but it looked like 2 Giants were on the ball.

I think I was still trying to figure out how the Cards had a 1st and 10 after being called for delay of game.
Agreed, it was awful all around,  
barens : 10/3/2011 9:54 am : link
there was just a point where I wanted them to pocket their flags the rest of the game. Some of the calls, against Arizona too, were terrible. Really just ruins the flow of the game, though I won't complain about the outcome.
I couldn't see who recovered it,  
Andy in Halifax : 10/3/2011 9:55 am : link
but I saw one ref signal a fumble and then spotted the ball where it looked to be recovered. Camera angles were poor though so I couldn't tell for sure who recovered it. My initial thought was that a Giant fell on it but I really couldn't tell.
Fatman  
Fred in Atlanta : 10/3/2011 9:56 am : link
I was wondering the same thing, unless the penalty was on the kickoff, but I don't see how a receiving team could be called for delay of game.
Jerome Boger talks as if he has no teeth  
Mike in NY : 10/3/2011 9:57 am : link
but that does not excuse the fact that the officials were downright atrocious all game. Never thought I would say that I think Alberto Riveron or even Ron Winter could have done a better job
Fred  
Mike in NY : 10/3/2011 9:58 am : link
I think the Delay of Game was for spiking the football (a.k.a. the Jeremy Shockey penalty)
The spike  
Fred in Atlanta : 10/3/2011 9:59 am : link
may explain it.
I had an internet feed and may have missed some things  
cnuke : 10/3/2011 10:01 am : link
The delay of game penalty was very strange. I never saw where it happened. If it was a because of a spike like Mike said, that would explain it.

It was strange that they didn't really show much of a replay on the fumbled ball after that. I can't remember if I saw a Cardinal recover it, or just assumed they did because of the spot of the ball.
I believe  
Fred in Atlanta : 10/3/2011 10:02 am : link
the Cardinals did recover it.
one of my favorite officiating moments  
fkap : 10/3/2011 10:02 am : link
in light of the ref helping Vick to his feet repeatedly last week, was when Nicks was on the ground at the 1 yard line and reached to the official for a hand up, and the official just looks at him and keeps walking.

The problem with the Cruz call is that he did advance it several yards and then had the appearance of tripping, not giving himself up. It was a borderline call, and I'm glad it went our way, especially since it was obvious that Cruz thought the play was over, so it would be a sucky way to lose on a technicality.
Here's the delay  
cnuke : 10/3/2011 10:02 am : link
L.Tynes kicks 67 yards from NYG 35 to ARZ -2. A.Jefferson to ARZ 27 for 29 yards (M.Herzlich). PENALTY on ARZ-A.Jefferson, Delay of Game, 5 yards, enforced at ARZ 27.

So, I think the 1st and 10 was the right call. It must have been that Jefferson spiked it at the end of the play.
the Cards did fall on that fumble  
YAJ2112 : 10/3/2011 10:04 am : link
I think the Delay penalty was for spiking the ball after the return. Dead ball foul, so not sure that should have made it 1st and 15. That crew did suck though, couldn't believe some of the holds that the Cards were getting away with compared to the ones they called on us.
I thought...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/3/2011 10:07 am : link
you can only be called for a delay for spiking the ball if the clock is running?
Yes, officials were spotty yesterday.  
Vin_Cuccs : 10/3/2011 10:13 am : link
But when it counted in the 4th quarter, they swallowed the whistles.

--Cruz "fumble"

--Webster pass break-up on Fitzgerald to end the game

--Rolle pass break-up on Fitzgerald.
Bernard penalty  
Mark from Jersey : 10/3/2011 10:26 am : link
worst call on the D since the infamus "Tackled by Helmet" penalty IMO.
I know  
bobstevensbob : 10/3/2011 10:47 am : link
this isn't the right place to bitch about this but talking about calls that affect games, what about ball and strike calls in baseball. And what really irks me is the announcers claiming "this is a good ump at calling balls & strikes" when K-Zone shows that the call was a mistake. This affects the game in so many ways. Outcome, lenght, etc. Until that jerk Selig is gone, this debacle will continue ruining the game.
This is a constant issue for the NFL  
RB^2 : 10/3/2011 10:54 am : link
I remember a few years ago when the refs lost track of downs near the end of the 1st half and Coughlin had to correct them.
A few thoughts  
Matt M. : 10/3/2011 11:36 am : link
1) I think the TO should have been charged to the Giants. While the replays showed Coughlin calling for the TO and the red flag being thrown within a second or two of each other, I believe a few players were already calling for the TO and it was acknowledged.

2) On the Bernard hit, I think Johnson and Goose at least acknowledged it was clean. His point about leading with the helmet was not that off base. However, the comment about Hynoski was just plain stupid.

3) There was a holding call against Arizona that Goose questioned what the refs saw, when the replay clearly showed the OL with one hand in front and the other wrapped around the back. This alone often gets a hold. The replay also showed, though, a handful of jersey in the back. It was a hold. At least they were inconsistent on holds for both teams.

4) The Cruz play was not obvious either way. In live action, it certainly appeared he gave himself up. In the replays, it depended on which angle you saw. But, that judgement is made in live action, so the replay is moot. Either way, Cruz was stupid for doing that, unless he really thought he was touched down.

5) FatMan brings up a good point about the spike. That delay is only supposed to be called when the clock is running, as I understand it.

6) That challenge was absolutely stupid by Wisenhunt. Then again, his coaching in the entire 4th Quarter was brutal.
Also  
Matt M. : 10/3/2011 11:39 am : link
Manning not only was losing the ball on the way to the turf, but he was hit by at least one defender.
Did anyone else catch what I thought was a horse collar  
Matt M. : 10/3/2011 11:44 am : link
early in the second quarter on a Bradshaw run? He was strung out running wide right and the defender had one arm in front and the other appeared to pull the collar on the back of Bradshaw's jersey.
......  
JBGiants : 10/3/2011 11:52 am : link
Agree, it was awful both ways. Joseph was getting held all game, and Snee was basically holding on every play.
I completely agree.  
BigBlueBuff : 10/3/2011 11:56 am : link
It was a rough game for the officials.
Matt M  
cnuke : 10/3/2011 11:56 am : link
I saw one, but I thought it was Jacobs.
Snee had an uncharacteristically  
PEEJ : 10/3/2011 12:08 pm : link
bad game
That was one of the reasons...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/3/2011 1:47 pm : link
I was pissed at the call they actually made on Snee which wiped out a good gain. He'd been holding all day long and the time he gets flagged, he released the guy without holding and lets him have a direct line to Eli.

He probably should have held better!!
That was one of the reasons...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/3/2011 1:47 pm : link
I was pissed at the call they actually made on Snee which wiped out a good gain. He'd been holding all day long and the time he gets flagged, he released the guy without holding and lets him have a direct line to Eli.

He probably should have held better!!
They missed another big call in the game...  
SIMMSTOBAVARO : 10/3/2011 9:43 pm : link
Dockett horsecollared Jacobs on a tackle in the 2nd half. Not a mention of it from the announcers. They actually said it was a great tackle..
At least they got the Cruz "surrender" right.  
mjt832 : 10/3/2011 9:54 pm : link
If we turn the ball over right there- it could have been disastrous.
I was complaining about those officials all game  
gidiefor : Mod : 10/3/2011 10:09 pm : link
they treated both teams equally badly
Agreed.  
SIMMSTOBAVARO : 10/3/2011 11:04 pm : link
But how do you pull down a 265 pound Brandon Jacobs from behind by his shoulder pads...and it is not called by the referees? It was pretty blatant.
terrible officiating  
Dylan fan : 10/3/2011 11:28 pm : link
Agree that the officiating was hideous for both teams on all the plays mentioned & even some more. Amazingly the only poster on the thread to disagree - rather unsurprisingly PaulN - is the one who wrote that FMIC should shut the hell up about mentioning it. Would be nice if Paul would shut the hell up on every thread.
Fat Man  
FJ : 10/6/2011 10:29 am : link
The delay of game penalty was for the spike at the end of the kickoff return. The TV announcers should have explained that (but they probably didn't understand it). Here is the rule, which does not mention anything about whether the clock is running or not.

Quote:
Article 5 Other examples of action or inaction that are to be construed as delay of the game include, but are not limited to, the following:
...
(e) spiking or throwing the ball in the field of play after a down has ended, except after a score;


I think they got that one right.
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