In five games, Eli's lack of care for the football has spotted the other team 3 touchdowns. One against the Redskins, one against the Cardinals, and another one yesterday (and nearly two yesterday, but the defense came up with a turnover of its own despite being pinned back after an Eli fumble).
Despite what some say about yesterday's interception not being Eli's fault, I disagree completely. He threw that ball across his body, without stepping into it, to a receiver that had FOUR Seahawks all around him. And for what? A four yard gain? Meanwhile, Bradshaw was WIDE OPEN two feet in front of him and gains at least four yards (and maybe more because the closest defender was running away from him toward the back of the end zone). It was an awful decision. Yes, Cruz needs to catch that ball with two hands, but the throw should have never been made in the first place.
Two of the touchdowns Eli has spotted the other team were backbreakers (Redskins, Seahawks). Yesterday's loss is the type of loss we could be lamenting in December. Just an awful, awful loss. No two ways about it. You simply can't win many games when your quarterback is spotting the other team 7 points.
Maybe even more troubling to me was his last interception. It was right to the other team. To me, it looked like he quit, and I've never seen that from him before.
Changing topics, I thought the announcers had it backwards at halftime when they said that the Giants were lucky to be in the game considering how poorly they played. The Seahawks just came out on fire - sometimes that happens. They were executing incredibly well, throwing perfect passes, running away from the coverage, etc. So it was more like the Giants were lucky to still be in the game considering how well the Seahawks had played.
That said, it was Coughlin's job to get this team ready to come out and throttle the Seahawks. Any coach can get a team ready to play a good team. Coughlin has shown that he struggles with the bad teams, especially at home. Whatever he's doing, it's not working.
As soon as the game was over, we (my dad and I) named the game "Ugly in Pink." Just plain ugly.
I feel pretty confident that the Giants will bounce back this weekend and beat an upstart Bills team. But even so, I worry that this loss will come back to bite us in the butt and that our quarterback keeps making awful plays with the football that are leading directly to touchdowns for the other team...
If those are the two killers, I'm not worried.
I like how you are knocking Eli for such very particular plays. I feel it's important that you recognize all the good he is also doing, because we wouldn't have 3 wins if it wasn't for ol Eli.
Why again should all opinions be respected?
The OL was also brutal this past Sunday. There were a lot of breakdowns in protection, they couldn't open up anything in the running game and they just had a poor game in general. Being without Baas to start and then losing Snee to a concussion only complicated matters.
We have our issues this year.. but if you really think Eli is the main culprit or reason why we've lost 2 of our 5 games so far.. I just don't agree at all.
It's just freaking easy.
and I never said we should get rid of him. in fact, i'm on record as saying that i'm a big eli fan.
BUT, that doesn't mean he's perfect. The team is as good as he is - that we know. When he doesn't make big mistakes, we can beat anybody. When he does, we can lose to the Seahawks (who are terrible by the way).
And again, anyone who thinks that was a good pass to Cruz (whether Cruz slipped or not), doesn't know a thing about quarterbacking. It was an awful decision compounded by poor mechanics. Double-awful decision considering Bradshaw was wide open right in front of him.
In Was, the block was missed and the Defender made a great play - defenders do make plays.
The Giants are not close in that game yesterday without him
How can there be so little self-awareness in this world?
Cruz fell down.. I have no idea why you think that was some awful decision by Eli. Cruz stays on his feet and we're not even having this discussion. It's just silly.
Again.. I highly suggest you look at the OL play last week in particular. It was not good at all and it's not easy to have any success in the passing game under those circumstances.
gidiefor : 8:57 pm
or the week before? and then you waited for a crappy game to post these observations.
watch the play again. trips left, which means the coverage is rolled left. eli forces a long throw (about a 20 yard pass) for a 4 yard gain. four guys around the ball. your argument that cruz slipped is just another example of why NOT to throw that pass. bad decision. it's okay to admit it. i'm taking shots at eli's character, just saying it was a bad decision.
and no one seems to be saying Bradshaw was covered. because he wasn't. it was the safe play in that situation, which, when you're trailing, on first down no less, and about to score, is the smart decision.
you fellas can berate me all you want (which is weird - the ad hominem attacks are just silly), but i know several other fans whose opinions i highly respect who saw it the exact same way.
and for the record, i also agree that eli is a reason why we're off to a relatively good start, but that's a game he has to find a way to win.
Why isn't that surprising...
Eli pulls another rabbit out of the hat and we are saying how great Eli was.... 26-39 429 yards 3TDs (maybe 4) and 1 INT...
Unreal....
Eli was the only reason the Giants had a shot in that game.
You give Cruz some space to make a play.
Cruz slipped as he made his cut...which made the ball a little out of reach.
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/7378969/cruz_slipping_int/
he threw it to a receiver, in traffic, who had just slipped!! (the ball does not come out until after Cruz is getting back up)
please- now it's not even questionable that it was a horrible decision.
Eli is far from perfect and perhaps he could have checked down to bradshaw, but he's a proven winner and warrior and i'm not worried about him. this team will go as far as the running game and cohesion of the defense permit.
Obviously the Giants training staff needs to look at this and improve here. :-)
Get outta here people.
Eli should have waited until he had stopped his route, to ensure that he wasn't covered.
Most importantly, what's Eli's progression through the play? X, Z, Y/H and then RB?
Is it RB up to X?
was there sight adjustment based on Cb technique?
Eli shouldn't look to see if his receiver is still on his feet when he throws to him. He should just blindly throw it to where he THINKS the receiver will be because hey, it's a timing route!
this is funny.
Our OL is swiss cheese we cannot run the ball against the mighty seashawks at home.
Eli is trying to throw to fourth and fifth stringers.
Sometimes I get upset thinking these are professional football players yada yada yada. But if every GM was perfect his players would not fumble, drop a pass, or make other mistakes. This is the NFL not pleasantville. Many of us have rooted for far worse Giant teams over my years, but this team is truly in dire need of many things.
Eli's regression is not one of them. Perhaps many get confused with a lineman coming at you full speed trying to take your head off and reaching across your couch trying to grab the last potato chip.
Its not as easy as it looks from in front of your TV. That's Television for you folk suffering from arm chair quarterbacking regression.
We scored the pass D, oh hell the whole D made Charlie Whitehurst look like fucking Joe Montana....
PROTECT THE FCUKING LEAD!!!!
No slip... no tip.... no conversation. God damn Eli bashers were just waiting for a multi interception game to come out hollering. We arent 3-2 without Eli so GTFO.
Let's face it. The Giants have not played well all year and no matter how bad they get the tar kicked out of them, Eli can and does win games for them.
Eli has not regressed because of this play. HOw about the Defense that can stop NO ONE. Or the O-Line that can barely protect and not open running lanes. Eli is the least of the Giants problems.
1 Aaron Rodgers GB QB 129 180 71.7 36.0 1,721 9.6 344.2 14 2 72 40.0 84T 19 6 11 122.9
2 Tom Brady NE QB 133 196 67.9 39.2 1,874 9.6 374.8 14 6 90 45.9 99T 30 3 8 109.5
3 Alex Smith SF QB 83 126 65.9 25.2 965 7.7 193.0 7 1 43 34.1 44 16 1 14 104.1
4 Drew Brees NO QB 152 219 69.4 43.8 1,769 8.1 353.8 12 5 91 41.6 79T 20 3 11 102.3
4 Eli Manning NYG QB 104 164 63.4 32.8 1,486 9.1 297.2 11 5 58 35.4 74T 23 6 14 102.3
Yeah he is "regressing", dumbass
Never, ever will the Giants win a championship with this loser under center. Forget it, I'm going to pick a new favorite team.
That play is on Cruz and not Eli. If anything you can say that on the amazing Cruz TD, Eli made a terrible throw that should have been picked but Cruz saved him on that one.
Watch the clock - almost as soon as Eli gets the ball, it goes from 1.25 to 1.24. he releases between 1.23 & 1.22. 2 seconds at most.
Cruz does not slip and catch that, he is at worst on the 3
Cruz doesn't slip. he uses both hands to catch the ball and we are looking at 4-1 and Eli is 25-39 430yds (possibly) 4TDs and 1 INT...
this thread reeks of fucking stupidity.....the only reason we were even in this game is becuase of Easy E... how many times can a QB walk off the field to the sideline with the lead and have to come back on to get it back again???
I counted 3 times in this one....
Eli waits until it looks like Cruz is coming out of his break also.
It also looks like because the defender is coming hot from Elis right... There is no lane to throw to Bradshaw... I will have to look back at the broadcast to make sure.
We can probably delete this thread now or archive it so we can chuckle about it when Eli retires.
Cruz probably reaches with one hand because he is still off balance from the slip and used the right arm to counter his balance.
I hope the amateur hour continues for another 3 hours next Sunday. I'll settle for 8 catches, 161 yds and a TD any Sunday from the #3 receiver.
We could have moved the ball on the ground and with that much time left it would have been the safe call...
With all due respect to Carl Banks, no they shouldn't have run the ball. Why, because the O-line was in tattered pieces, that's the point - THEY COULDN'T BLOCK.
At least three shots to the BACK of the end zone, that's what was called for - NOT a high risk pass into the teeth of the defense.
Regressions ? No, not at all.
FMiC is probably rolling in his grave...
Bottom line is that Eli keeps the Giants in the game even if the defense isn't playing well. And up until that last play he was having a MONSTER game. 1 INT changes the games entire perspective.
in a two score game with half a minute left. really.
Second, I do wish we'd played it a bit more conservative on that play. Fucking sucks. That is two f'n pick 6's down that side of the field in the past year, both on slants, both backbreakers in crushing home defeats to really bad teams.
Add the fact that the defense seems to take half of the game off and lets Seattle drive right back down the field without resistance... and you have your loss.
Eli comes into that game with the third best QB rating and if Cruz doesn't slip, his stats would have been extremely impressive yet again. Eli is playing great football and you are not an intelligent person. Do you think that Eli can see the whole field like we can while watching it on TV? He has got a few seconds each play to make a decision while 4+ guys are trying to rip his head off and you rip him for throwing the ball to the guy that's been making plays, who catches it in stride if he doesn't slip??
Come on man! Wake up!
Also it appears his view was obstructed so he couldn't tell Cruz slipped even if he had "time" to check out of that option.
I can see a better argument for a bad play call. One could just as easily argue that the call was meant for hot hands (i.e. Cruz). Regardless, this was not Eli's fault. Eli is the reason we were still in that game.
Personally, if I had to pass judgement, it would be against the OL. However, I think I've already made that clear in the beginning of this post. Also for the play immediately before that one. The reason they were backed up in the first place.
Kent Graham, Danny Kanell, Dave Brown, and Tommy Maddox wouldn't have made that throw!!!
If there is no false start, we never run a quick timing route near the goal line. Cause and effect. I have a bigger problem with the false start since that shouldn't happen at home with the game on the line and is much more preventable. Slipping in the turf on a timing route is a physical error that Eli had no control over.
timing routes are out routes. you don't have timing routes across the middle. call me an idiot all you want (which is really silly and uncalled for), but calling that route a timing route shows your lack of understanding, not mine. that play was a good old fashioned "see who's open" play. and eli threw the ball to a receiver who was on the ground. that's on him.
also showing a huge misunderstanding are those who are suggesting that i'm saying that eli sucks and we should bench him, etc. no. you can be critical of a player (or a particular play) while still thinking that, overall, the player is a good player (which is how i feel about eli). my only point was, and still is, that that throw was a particularly bad decision, it cost us the game, and eli has been careless with the ball (and spotting the other team 7 points) rather consistently lately (including last year).
By the time Cruz even begins to make his cut, the ball should be in the air. It's a bang bang play. Split seconds. Do you know how hard it would be mid throwing motion, even if he did see him start to slip, to process that thought and stop the motion?
Serioiusly, think about it.
Learning new things everyday on BBI...mostly I learn to never, ever believe anything I read on BBI.
I'd like to get in some of these guys heads and watch the games they are watching...
If you want to blame Eli for the pick fine. Most people who know disagree, but that's your perogative. But you are not helping yourself arguing QBing technique because you are way off.
You have to think of the physics of the human body, here.
I haven't seen the full screen video of the play to see how open Bradshaw was, but a QB CAN'T see the entire field. He will immediately look to one side after the snap depending on what the defense is showing him. If you think anyone can scan the entire field, then set his feet and throw in 3 seconds, I don't know what to tell you.
One of the INT's is on Eli, the other 2, not so much.
Also, to the bradshaw wide open people who complain that Eli threw around 3 or 4 defenders. Would you rather him throw the ball across the field and have possibly a defender he doesnt see step in front of the ball?
Sometimes I wonder why I come here...........
That's top notch material right there
INT - McKenzie does not get a good enough cut block and Kerrigan makes a nice athletic play. Quick timing play, 99% of the time this ball is just batted down. This is about 75% great play by a defender, 20% bad play by McKenzie, 5% on Eli.
St. Louis:
INT - First drive of the game. Bad throw by Eli, baited by the safety. Eli needs to get this ball deeper and outside. Definatley on Eli, but not a disaster. They took a shot, the Cards get the ball on the NYG 14.
Philadelphia:
No Turnovers
Arizona:
FUMBLE - Carter comes untouched up the middle through Boothe and arrives at Eli about the same time as the ball.
Seattle:
FUMBLE - Can't really recall the specifics on this. I remember thinking that even though it happened quickly Eli needed to secure the ball better here. I could be wrong.
INT - Almost identical to the INT against the Rams. On Eli.
INT - Been discussed here. Looked like a good throw to a spot, Cruz slipped. Nice low ball in front of the defenders. Cruz tries to recover from slip and tips the ball to a defender. Just unlucky.
INT - Just trying to make something happen in a lost cause. Totally on Eli, of course, but who cares? Just goes down in the stat book as an INT... but no bearing on game.
It's amazing to me what NY Giant fans really think and feel after a loss. It's one thing to be irrate and play the blame game right after the game, but 3 days after?
Eli Manning regressed? Now that is just silly. I made this post yesterday and I stick by it.
Tim in Eternal Blue : 10/11/2011 11:29 am
Is if Victor Cruz doesn't slip and fall on that next to last interception... The Giants most likely score a TD and win the football game
E. Gremlin: I have to comment on your posts for a second. Two things stuck out too me... You blaming Gilbride for the play call and calling out Victor Cruz.
A. The playcall: There is no way that Gilbride is calling a run on that play. It's been well documented on how bad our running game was that game. Eli had been playing fantastic for the most part of the game and had driven his team down to inside the 5 (before the dumbass penalty), so why wouldn't you put the game in your franchise QB's hands? (Yes I wish our run game was better so that we could have ran it in that situation)
B. Why did Eli throw to Victor Cruz in that situation? When this season started, we all wanted to know who was going to fill in for Steve Smith as Eli's go-to receiver. Well I think we have the answer folks. Victor Cruz has made some mistakes, but he's also made some fantastic catches and has been on fire since that Philly game. Eli trusts Victor Cruz and the kid is only going to get better.
The OP commented that he thought that Eli Manning looked as if he had just "quit" when he threw his last interception. The Giants were down by 2 scores with less than a minute left in regulation. He had watched the lead that he created dissipate 3 different times during that game. Then he marches down field one last time to put his team in scoring position and win the football game for the 3rd week in a row... and a slip and tip-drill ruins that for a pick 6. What did you expect from the guy? To be jumping up and down? The game was over.
I said this yesterday and I'll reiterate again. The Giants without Eli Manning are a 3-13 maybe a 4-12 team (IMO). At least this year. With Eli has our starter for an entire season, we have never had a losing record and I usually never feel out of a game as long as we have #10 under center.
Fix the OL and fix our run defense, and this team has a chance to make the playoffs... and Eli Manning is the major reason why.
That's the problem here. People think that posters should be entitled to speak their opinion, no matter how bad or wrong it is, and be immune to criticism of it.
If you're going to dig your feet in, in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, you deserve what you get.
Natty, thanks for this thread and not understanding what you're looking at!
GiantNatty : 8:20 am
timing routes are out routes. you don't have timing routes across the middle. call me an idiot all you want (which is really silly and uncalled for), but calling that route a timing route shows your lack of understanding, not mine. that play was a good old fashioned "see who's open" play. and eli threw the ball to a receiver who was on the ground. that's
See who is open route?? Dude, they are ALL see how is open routes with a progression of recievers that Eli checks down too... thanks for helping me fire out the wife's last night's culinary disaster....for that I am indebted to you!!! So if you could...keep putting up gems like this on Tuesday/Wednedays to counter the wife's Taco Tusdays, that would be greatly appreciated!!!! Thanks Natty!!!
He does seem to be ignorant as there are pictures showing that Cruz was open and he seems to still somehow over look this. Also the ball may have come out after the slip but not the start of the throwing motion and not before the decision was already made. Lastly, who cares if his mechanics were off if the pass was where it was supposed to be? Your argument is moot.
Britt in VA, I have no problem with any of your posts. If you want examples of what I was referring to, look at some of the posts on the first page of this thread.
And perhaps you didn't see my second post.
These are split second decisions.
This is real time physics.
Now put yourself in Eli's shoes, with 21 dudes flying around all over the place, in real time, so about 3 seconds.
You think it's as simple as pulling down the throw?
I like the guy and as far as I can see, this wasn't on him. Jeez! some of you guys won't accept any observation other than Eli is perfect.