Without getting too in depth here, this defense has no faith in its coordinator. We are in week 12 of the season and players have no idea where to lineup. I realize Boley is out, on top of the other losses, Osi is dinged, Tuck is halfway to IR, Rolle is playing CB and we have rookies littering the middle of the field with missed assignments but this defense is 100% lost 3/4 of the way through the season. I hate to be the coordinator hater, but Perry Fewell has absolutely lost this team on defense and its evident in their body language and confusion play in and play out. WHen you don't have faith in your game plan, you play tentatively, almost afraid that what your coach saw may not be what you saw. His plan is most likely too complicated and overwrought with complications when professionals paid to do a job cannot figure out where to lineup on workday #7 of a week.
This is mostly a gut thing I see in the guys, and I know quantifying mood or emotion is foolhardy but I've played under people who seemed overmatched and you don't buy into their philosophy when you what you see on tape is NOT what you are told on the field. His overthinking and timid approach to pressure (please please please read a book on A and B gap pressures and stop trying to blitz off the edge all day when you have 3 pro bowl caliber DEs) is killing this defense. When you see guys not lining up properly and looking confused it is 100% on the man in charge of the defense. As a player you trust what you see and you execute as asked but when you see something that the opponent does that you KNOW will beat you, it just deflates you and you play with that listless look the Giants have had for weeks now. Leaders like Justin Tuck and Corey Webster are looking lost, completely lost and that speaks to their lack of confidence in what they are being asked to do.
I won't sit here and claim to know the scheme we should run or what our talent dictates, but I know full well that trying to pressure a 6-0 QB with a rocket release and speed to burn at WR/RB on the edges is just sheer stupidity. You put your 6-7 and 6-5 DTs in his face and you fire in the A gaps all night long and keep him off balance. You don't blitz Kenny Phillips in the 7 or 8 hole, you don't delay blitz a LB on a loop or a stunt with a DE going wide, you force the issue and you force the offense to contend with you. Fewell is a timid DC who plays on the edges trying like hell to contain everything and not give up the big play but he does not have the LBs or Safeties to pull that off. What he has is a front four and speed at LB that can make a QBs life hell between the center and guard and he chooses to run wide and pressure from the edge which almost never gets home. Don't start your best DE at DT as a gimmick, let him come in later in a drive, fresh like Tuck did in his early years and wear down the interior OL. You don't bang a DE into 330lb guards all day and assume it will work.
Fewell is quite simply overmatched and over thinking his defense to the point that players are not only confused but seemingly without faith in their play calls and without faith in each other. Players are smarter than we want to give credit for, they have a clue what will work and it is clear that this group no longer trusts Fewell to select a sound game plan and it is woefully evident in their play. Go find 10 DCs in teh NFL and lend them Tuck, Osi, JPP, Canty, Joseph, Bernard, Webster, Ross, Rolle, Kiwi, Phillips and see how happy you'd make them. You wouldn't rush 3 and drop 8, you wouldn't start DEs at DT, you'd find a base that works and you punish the offense from guard to guard until they were forced to max protect or their QB flubbed the game away. Perry Fewell is coaching scared and over thinking and despite our injuries he has plenty of talent and no fucking idea what to do with it.
sure you've seen these guys cover- just not new orleans under either Sheridan or Fewell. But fear not-coach joey has the plan he developed with a beer sitting in front of the tv. Check.
but no matter. Let's accept your premise that we have these wonderfully swift db's. Why would Fewell "coach scared"? lost his mind? Attempting to cover deficiencies that exist solely in his imagination? Bribed? If you are going to accuse an experienced professional football coach of "coaching scared" then it is incumbent on you to explain what he is afraid of.
similarly, why would Fewell move the Spork around when it is so obvious to an authority like yourself that he should be playing the run? Serendipity? Indulging some whim? Punish Rolle for his last interview?
All you have is a case of confirmation bias. You are no different than most of the other fools on here despite your posturing.
Joey nailed this thread, which is why I'm guessing it was stickied. Good to see pretty much everyone here has a clue as to what is going on, except for 1 or 2 folks.
... given up by the defense and seeing the Gmen DFL in rushing ypg.
has made the same point that Joey made re: Antrel Rolle, HJ45.
|similarly, why would Fewell move the Spork around when it is so obvious to an authority like yourself that he should be playing the run? Serendipity? Indulging some whim? Punish Rolle for his last interview?
And he's infinitely more qualified to pass judgment on a player by evaluating game tape than any of us.
|But fear not-coach joey has the plan he developed with a beer sitting in front of the tv. Check
Nice ad hominem
This is the classic coaching vs talent debate that was so prevalent on BBI in the late 90's. This thread is classic BBI.
It's clear to me that the talent is being misused by the DC. The players are better than giving up 50 points to anyone. A job of a coach is to put the players in the best position for them to succeed and playing someone out of position like PF has done is counter to that. If he was OC I'm sure he would be playing Jacobs as fullback.
After all those players going down pre-season, we get to the bye week and the newspaper headlines start saying "Giants Getting Healthy at Right Time"
And then in the blink of a eye four more talented starters go down: Bradshaw, Beatty, Boley (a critical loss) and Tuck, whose head seems to be in a very bad place right now.
If that isn't enough to justify the horrible defense, then add in the ridiculous sight of these rookie linebackers, none of them even worth a middle draft choice, running around in confusion. The front office really screwed the pooch when they didn't sign a veteran linebacker after Goff and Sintim went down.
So I'm no fan of Fewell but stick Thomas, Boley and healthy Tuck back in the lineup and you have a pretty talented defense.
They might have even played hard.
about playing the saints.
I don't think we will win any game when the objective will be outscoring them.
The Saints couldn't be stopped on offense and their defense is actualy pretty good. Solid D-line. Decent LB's and some good DB's.
On offense the only players I have faith in are Eli, Nicks, and Cruz. Ballard had it 2 weeks ago. Snee hasn't played like we expect a pro-bowl guard to play. Diehl is looking terrible. I guess when we moved him back to Guard he gave up. Beatty is weak, Cole did whatever he wanted. Baas has actually looked decent, havent seen him pass block much but he gets movement on run blocking. Mckenzie has the physical strength still but no speed to pass block.
JPP looks good but he doesn't play DE like I like a DE to. He is a better overall DE than Osi but a lot of plays he is just putting his hands on the tackle and not really rushing. That could be what he is suppose to do so I wont say anything. Tuck when healthy is still good. Osi isn't as good as he was but can still rush the pass decently. DT's are about average. Canty has made some good plays and Joseph is athletic for a DT. Too many injuries at LB to expect much. Williams has looked good, he is a legit every down LB. Herzlich is a 2 down LB, Cant cover the pass to save his life but has great bulk for a run stopping LB. Not having Boley hurts. He was having a great season. Really impressed me.
Ross has 4 int's but gets beat too much, Amukamara has been pretty good. he has made some plays but VS the eagles had Young not been the QB he would have given up a big TD instead of getting the interception. Webster looks like he is declining, he is average at best and cant cover anybody with speed. Phillips and Rolle are decent. Grant has been a big part of our defense.
good stuff and unfortunately i think you are right
and you are a guy who generally does not bail on a coaches. so, this post says a lot
Fewell is more concerned about giving up a big play than he is about playing overall defense. Who has better secondary players in the NFC.
Dallas, NO, GB, Chicago. Was there anything that NO did that stood out in their secondary. Dallas is awful. Everyone has thrown on GB this year.
I totally think Webster is miscast playing zone. He was playing at a high level playing man coverage. This defense has him looking like pre SB Webster. Let him play.
Ross is clearly lost in zone, yet Fewell still goes out there in zone. This, in my opinion, and I may be wrong, is what is killing the S play. He has Philips doing nothing but playing to not get beat deep. As a result, he is never close enough to make plays. Is anyone here happy at what Rolle is being asked to do.
You need fast LB's in todays NFL - Boley is that and so is Williams - he just happens to be rookie. If you have LB's who can run, utilize them.
Someone explain to me the benefit of dropping Tuck or JPP in coverage. You weaken the pass rush and they can't cover. Yet we see this game after game after game.
The Ravens have not had a good corner since McCallister, yet they still play man and let their S make plays - same for Pittsburgh.
How many 80 yd drives has this defense given up? If my defense is giving up 25 ppg, I would rather see them attack than not.
Great post Joey. Fewell seems to alternate the game plan so drastically from week to week. This past game against New Orleans reminded me of the one against Indy not too long ago. Just a game plan that went to shit. You can't have Drew Brees sit in the pocket all day and let him throw the ball, I don't care if you have 11 guys in the secondary, he'll pick you apart.
but the "over-thinking" issue appears to happen on offense too - so it makes me wonder how much of this is on TC.
The play calls that drive me crazy on offense are the ones that seem to scream "A run is the obvious thing to do here, so let's pass" - when the run is obvious because it's most likely to work. You also hear about TC's offense being at least somewhat harder to learn than other systems. Then, likewise, you see these overly clever packages on defense.
You put it together and it looks like a team mentality - which is all about TC.
Good stuff Joey.
That was quite an awesome evisceration.
that some are defending Fewell and claiming that we aren't qualified to judge this guy's scheme or point out his shortcomings.
Not to too our horn here, but the popular opinion on BBI has been right far more than it's been wrong. If most of the people think a coach is in over his head....it's probably the truth.
Fassel was a polarizing figure but more fans thought he was average at best and guess what, he hasn't gotten a job in the NFL and probably never will. All of Fassel's DCs, save for Fox, were bashed around here and they are all out of the NFL. All the guys under Coughlin from Huffnagel to Lewis and Sheridan...same deal.
When we start to panic week after week and have a large sample size to go on concerning an asstistant coach, it's always warranted.
Even with coughlin in 2006, we all felt like he probably needed to change things up, hire some new coaches and maybe even endear himself to today's athlete...some wanted him gone...others were willing to give him another shot. BBI Pretty much nailed it.
If Perry Fewell makes us all eat crow it will be a first. More often than not, we have been dead on accurate with regards to under performing DCs. Sad but true. I trust the overall judgement of this place save for a few looneys. Scary I know.
it's NY Giants defense. trust your gut....if you think the talent level is good enough to at least keep this team in games, it probably is good enough. I think there's talent on this D. I think guys are out there thinking too much and not just letting it fly. You can see it as clear as day. I don't know the schemes and what works and what doesn't but I know when a D is thinking too much and not being put in a position to succeed. And this D is doing just that.
I start this rant, a caveat.
I didn't read the whole thread.
I've been buried at work since Monday morning and haven't had a chance to spend any time mulling this over.
Joey made a few very good points. The first being the lack of inside pressure.
We were playing against a vertically challenged QB.
You need to get after him up the middle.
DTs aren't getting home? There's a solution.
Use the DTs to pinch the guards, create a gap and send the Mike.
Hell, our Mike can't cover for shit anyway, so you might as well send him. The Mike can't get home in this scenario?
No problem, move Kiwi to middle when you call an A gap blitz and let that freak of nature extend that enormous wingspan upwards and block the midget's passes.
That doesn't work, run the inside scissors with a DT and a LBer. Running the loop stunt with the DL is just too fucking slow with a QB like Brees.
The point is, we need to have back up plans and we need to trust these guys to pull them off.
Perry is a good guy, but has a real problem with trust. He doesn't trust his guys to make a play so he plays it safe.
Won't cut it in HS, won't cut it in college and it damn sure don't cut it in the NFL. You've gotta have answers, and you've got to have balls to call a defense.
You want those guys to trust you, you have to trust them.
He's done this before.
He's also bounced back a few times and followed up a stinker with a good game plan that shows his worth.
He knows the game so it's possible that other nut will drop and he'll improve. But, we're out of time and it's time to get it, or go home.
Any Giant fan worth his salt is pulling for him to rebound and make this work. You might doubt he can do it, but you're still pulling for him.
Back to the salt mines. I'm knee deep in alligators and the fuckers are hungry.
Another specific post with great examples.
If Fewell is so overmatched how did we beat Tom Brady and the Patriots on the road? (Last touchdown scored by the Pats was crap as it was blatant offensive pass interference) I don't know the X and O's as well as some people at BBI, but I don't think the solution is as simple as just play more man coverage. Ross in man coverage the whole game? That is scary. Wouldn't a team like Dew Brees and the Saints be able to run plays to beat man coverage if our defense was too predictable? That being said I do blame Fewell for their being such confusion in calling the defense against the Saints. I mean I understand that Boley is injured, but the team looked overly confused and lost which is saying something because giant fans have become used to our defense looking confused ! Also, the defense seemed to lack effort and intensity which I also partially blame on Fewell. That being said I think Fewell is playing more conservative due to injuries. Our defensive personnel right now is not as good as some people think. We just don't have the talent right now to be a great defense. Tuck and Osi (when they are on the field) are not playing at a Pro Bowl level. Deon Grant is taking a lot of snaps and he wasn't even on the roster until our secondary became ravaged with injuries. We all know our rookie line backers are not ready for the roles that they are playing right now. I give Fewell a partial break based upon the personnel he is working with, but the lack of effort and confusion vs the Saints was disturbing.
A breath of fresh air, someone said exactly what is wrong. Sure, we have holes in our defense, but when you have guys that can rush the passer, and you have guys that can play press coverage good, like Webster, how fucking complicated can it be what to do. Bill Walsh said it best, football coaches are not geniuses. But there are many idiots, that think they need to do something special to show how smart they are. And that is what we have, a fucking MORON running the defense. This guy reminds me of Rust, a word that sends shivers up the spine of Giant fans, but that is who he is. i am happy this is coming to an end. I can not stand, nor do I trust to hope for this defense with this moron running it. Even when things are going good he has the ability to fuck it up.
The Pats had a bad game, that is how. That also happens. Remember what the Redskins offense did to us, remember what the Seahawks offense did to us with thier backup QB? I think those two games more then make up for the one lucky game we had.
In reading through this thread I think some people on the forum our thinking our defensive personnel is better than it actually is right now and putting too much of the blame on Fewell. Osi played well for a couple games when he first came back from injury and has not made an impact since. Osi gets manhandled by the better offensive lineman in the game. Case in point our last game vs the Eagles when he was shut down by Peters. Tuck is clearly hampered by injuries and only has two sacks. The only player on the line playing at a pro bowl level is JPP. What other great pass rushers do we have? Kiwi is playing linebacker and probably is above average but not great. Osi and Tuck are not playing at a high level this year when then they are on the field. Fewell can't shoulder all of the blame. Yes, Webster can play man to man but who is going to cover the rest of the receivers? Ross got beat badly in the New Orleans game. Amukumara maybe can hold his own and the next corner behind Amukumara was picked up off the street. My thoughts are we don't have the personnel to have a great defense (i.e. Baltimore, Pittsburg) this year no matter who is our defensive coordinator. Maybe without the injuries it would be another story. So I'm going to give Fewell until the end of the season before I judge him too harshly. I do hold Fewell responsible for the confusion getting lined up against New Orleans and for defense putting up a lackluster effort. But Our defense doesn't have the personnel to be great right now so I'm not going to say Fewell is a complete moron and doesn't know what he is doing. They just don't have the personnel to be the suffocating defense that can crush the opposition.
As a Football Giants fan (also BB Giants fan since '37) since the late 1940's-early 1950. I watched Steve Owens'interesting TV show each week along with a player to discuss some aspect of the previous game with film and football in general.
I am in total agree with posters who espose the up the middle on Breese, which is why I so hate the "3 rushers" defense. Against GB, we never got any where close to the QB,and he just stood there for what seemed like a lifetime to pick out a receiver, and if he did scramble it was always to his right, where he threw to a WR who was able to finally break coverage and come back to him due to the time along the sideline. So I just don't understand rushing only three. I also agree that blitzing from the edge didn't do the job either.