Without getting too in depth here, this defense has no faith in its coordinator. We are in week 12 of the season and players have no idea where to lineup. I realize Boley is out, on top of the other losses, Osi is dinged, Tuck is halfway to IR, Rolle is playing CB and we have rookies littering the middle of the field with missed assignments but this defense is 100% lost 3/4 of the way through the season. I hate to be the coordinator hater, but Perry Fewell has absolutely lost this team on defense and its evident in their body language and confusion play in and play out. WHen you don't have faith in your game plan, you play tentatively, almost afraid that what your coach saw may not be what you saw. His plan is most likely too complicated and overwrought with complications when professionals paid to do a job cannot figure out where to lineup on workday #7 of a week.
This is mostly a gut thing I see in the guys, and I know quantifying mood or emotion is foolhardy but I've played under people who seemed overmatched and you don't buy into their philosophy when you what you see on tape is NOT what you are told on the field. His overthinking and timid approach to pressure (please please please read a book on A and B gap pressures and stop trying to blitz off the edge all day when you have 3 pro bowl caliber DEs) is killing this defense. When you see guys not lining up properly and looking confused it is 100% on the man in charge of the defense. As a player you trust what you see and you execute as asked but when you see something that the opponent does that you KNOW will beat you, it just deflates you and you play with that listless look the Giants have had for weeks now. Leaders like Justin Tuck and Corey Webster are looking lost, completely lost and that speaks to their lack of confidence in what they are being asked to do.
I won't sit here and claim to know the scheme we should run or what our talent dictates, but I know full well that trying to pressure a 6-0 QB with a rocket release and speed to burn at WR/RB on the edges is just sheer stupidity. You put your 6-7 and 6-5 DTs in his face and you fire in the A gaps all night long and keep him off balance. You don't blitz Kenny Phillips in the 7 or 8 hole, you don't delay blitz a LB on a loop or a stunt with a DE going wide, you force the issue and you force the offense to contend with you. Fewell is a timid DC who plays on the edges trying like hell to contain everything and not give up the big play but he does not have the LBs or Safeties to pull that off. What he has is a front four and speed at LB that can make a QBs life hell between the center and guard and he chooses to run wide and pressure from the edge which almost never gets home. Don't start your best DE at DT as a gimmick, let him come in later in a drive, fresh like Tuck did in his early years and wear down the interior OL. You don't bang a DE into 330lb guards all day and assume it will work.
Fewell is quite simply overmatched and over thinking his defense to the point that players are not only confused but seemingly without faith in their play calls and without faith in each other. Players are smarter than we want to give credit for, they have a clue what will work and it is clear that this group no longer trusts Fewell to select a sound game plan and it is woefully evident in their play. Go find 10 DCs in teh NFL and lend them Tuck, Osi, JPP, Canty, Joseph, Bernard, Webster, Ross, Rolle, Kiwi, Phillips and see how happy you'd make them. You wouldn't rush 3 and drop 8, you wouldn't start DEs at DT, you'd find a base that works and you punish the offense from guard to guard until they were forced to max protect or their QB flubbed the game away. Perry Fewell is coaching scared and over thinking and despite our injuries he has plenty of talent and no fucking idea what to do with it.
I think the Colts game last year was the first major glimpse that Fewell had some issues game-planning.
it used to be our offense took forever to get a play called and communicated, now it's the defense that is still running around when the ball is snapped.
The disparity is tremendous - belichick can get a WR coached up, trained on his responsibility on the field and in position to make plays in a couple weeks, we still have guys out of position after a couple years.
I really believe with someone like Spags, Rob Ryan, Greg Williams, Wade Phillips, etc. this defense could be very competitive
Its Tampa 2 even thought many here deny it
I know we've had key injuries, and I know we have some underachievers. But we have seen what guys like Tuck, Umenyiora, Kiwanuka, Webster, and even Rolle and Canty can do in this league. Getting obliterated every now and then by the likes of the Colts, Packers, Saints, et al with this particular group of players is, frankly, inexcusable.
Fewell is the latest in a long line of failures at defensive coordinator, which was oh so briefly broken by Spags.
It really upsets me that we are wasting Eli's golden years because of Perry F'ing Fewell
A vanilla gameplan against the Saints isn't going to work...So, you try to win and when you try to win you are forced to make complex formation adjustments...lining up is going to be an issue...there is a lot of youth out there right now for the Giants....what did you hear the commentators on MFL say about the Saint offense (if you can't line up you can't be out there)...well, now you have Prince in the nickel..jones/paysicher/williams/Herz at LB, Kiwi who was a DE, now an OLB and now at MLB at times...Joseph and JPP at DL taking too many snaps...things aren't going to go well when you can't just line up and play ball. Yes, vanilla would be the answer, but would it win?
There are many more blitzes being run than you are acknowledging...but they aren't hitting home. And I think they aren't hitting home because of the lack of timing, experience.
I don't know. I am not giving up on Fewell...
Was disappointed in CWeb tonight...didn't force the edge at all..did a lot of dancing. Canty got tired. Osi = an ankle??? reallY????
Giants will beat Dallas twice and win the division...not sure they can handle NO or GB...Not sure if anyone can.
We get our hands on a great defensive coordinator, and -- poof! -- he's gone.
I had a bad feeling about this game after I read Fewell's comments on Friday(I think it was Friday). He almost sounded like there was no way the Giants could hang with the Saints. It certainly wasn't very inspiring.
Exactly! Just take a good look at the game and how the defense played. They all looked confused through out the game?? WTF? I mean look at the difference between the Giants defense and most oppsoing defenses we have faced, the Giants defense just looks sloppy & unorganized compared to other teams.. It's just embarrassing at this point.
The second most yards allowed in franchise history? You have to be kidding. For one minute I am not buying that this is top ten worst talent in franchise history.
The strength of this team is pass rush. Why the hell does he insist on DL dropping into coverages. It does nothing but weaken the rush and the coverage. Yet we continue to see this.
Webster was playing at a very high level in man to man coverage. Playing zone does nothing to utilize his skills. Ross is clearly not a zone corner.
If his strategy is use Rolle & Philips to just not get beat by the long pass, it is working. However, by doing so it is letting neither of them make any type of plays.
Why, last night do you just not play Rolle to cover Graham, and Williams shadow Sproles. All is see is Grant trailing Graham or the ridiculous zone.
This game is about attacking on both sides of the ball, and unfortunately our D coordinator does not believe in that concept.
its really sad this puss bag has ruined our season, not the injuries. We have enough players, they just are lost.
We all know that Coughlin is a good man and he did bring us a SB but is that truly attributable to him or Spags and player leadership?
I refuse to believe that Plax was solely responsible for our season ending the way it did. The Eagles beat us fair and square like they usually do in that playoff loss but I digress....
My point is that up until we went on that playoff run, it looked like TC was on his way out and I'm afraid that the SB victory untimately gave us the wrong coach. What have we done since 2007?
NFL Sirius is killing the Giants D from top to bottom today. Just ripping Grant and others for no having a clue what to do.
pjcas18 : 1:20 am
QB and coordinator/coach heavy you are at such a disadvantage if either your QB stinks/has a bad day or your coaches are un-prepared.
I think the Colts game last year was the first major glimpse that Fewell had some issues game-planning.
it used to be our offense took forever to get a play called and communicated, now it's the defense that is still running around when the ball is snapped.
The disparity is tremendous - belichick can get a WR coached up, trained on his responsibility on the field and in position to make plays in a couple weeks, we still have guys out of position after a couple years.
I really believe with someone like Spags, Rob Ryan, Greg Williams, Wade Phillips, etc. this defense could be very competitive
This league is a qb league, you have a qb who has played like ELI has played the last three years, you should make the playoffs. Defense can be coached. Look at the difference between the Texans last year and this year. I know they brought in Jonathan Joseph, but one player does not make the difference. Wade Phillips is a great DC. Defense can be coached and schemed right. Every play our guys are constantly running around, they look disorganized, and it shows in results and production.
Comically frustrating.
We really miss guys like Strahan and Pierce, Seubert and ...at least they had fire and gave effort. I saw no effort whatsoever from the defense last night. I don't like Tuck's subdued leadership style...get in somebody's face.
I agree that Fewell has lost the team.
With the lack of effort, lack of accountability, the stupidity of the dancing Brandon "Tip Toe" Jacobs, the team just doesn't appear to care.
I watch alot of football on Sunday's. I see teams flying around trying to make plays. Bad teams with less talent giving great effort... We may be injured but our lack of intensity and accountability is disheartening and makes me want to scream.
I wrote this on an earlier blurb but it is along the lines of one of your points.
The Giants got too cute again..
They played 4 DEs a bunch of times in the first half, which really hurt against the run. It was really dumb against a team that has one of the best Guards combos in the league. Tolly played too many snaps and should NEVER play at DT.
It was only last week that Rolle, who is actually inside the locker room unlike any of us, began to question the team's toughness. Those same questions are still there.
Pick a big play, any big play and it's a result of a botched assignment. The VD catch and run against the Niners comes to mind as a perfect example. The zone wasn't working last night, he switched to man. Webster started getting killed by Colston so near the end zone went zone, Lance Moore TD. Rushed four, blitzed, nothing worked. Nobody got home.
The three safety scheme sucks? We don't even have enough competent linebackers to lineup, and we also don't have enough CB depth. Rolle in the slot is terrible, we all saw that coming. Grant on TEs is a bad mismatch but what else are we going to do?
There are some deep seeded issues with the team, and Fewell is one of them, but he is not the major cause of the meltdown last night.
If we give up 49 to the Saints, how much will GB score? We have shown no ability to defend 4 and 5 WR spreads, and GB lives on that. Another bad loss on Sunday, and the wheels may come off.
Injuries have futher reduced the defense's abilities, and the overall talent level of this team has been reduced by injuries, including a few veterans released before the season.
The LB unit needs more talent, as does the OL, RB, and TE. This falls on Jerry Reese. Reese needs a big offseason to infuse LIFE into this team, which is becoming increasingly more apparent an overhaul of the coaching staff could be included. Graziano's article is solid, in this regard.
This is what happens when u cheap out on dc's. Theyve wanted both gregg williams and dom capers in the last few years and got neither
Of corse this is also what happens when u dont have a mlb leading your defense
They suck so bad, and they r so pathetic to watch, and really its been the same way for 3 years now
I have never seen an nfl d so easy to beat
It's not the NYG style to do this, it probably wouldn't help anyway. Do you do it, to just do it and hope for the best, a spark, a simplification, of sorts, etc.
The injuries are one thing, the lack of effort and the look on the Defensive player of sheer resignation is another.
If I'm Coughlin I'm in every defensive meeting. Period. Leave the offense to Killbride and be hands on with the Defense even though he's an offensive coach and player by trade and background.
At this point you trade Osi for whatever you can get. Let Ross walk. Send Grant to IR to get the huge fucking fork out of his back and draft some God Damn linebackers.
Funny how both the Eagles and Giants are getting killed this year due to horrific LB depth and play.
Look at all the athletic TEs now. Pretending that position didn't matter is killing both teams.
Reminded me of bill sheridan interviews....sounds completely over his head and almost in awe of the opponent
lack of a workable game plan against the Saints
They had plenty of rest after coming off a loss .
Breese was on fire last night he made throws that
many QB's only wish they could make . Even when we got
pressure he avoided sacks and stood always looking
downfield . I highly doubt anyone would have beat them
last night . With Boley out it not only took our
best LB in terms of speed and smarts that was having
really a probowl type year . The Saints knew exactly
how to beat us and they have too many playmakers
for us to account for . But we still have good
players on defense who are lost in this so called
gameplan . It was painfully obvious when Vince
young orchestrated that final drive last week .
Some of the blame falls on Reece for not making a move
when Goff went down . I like TC but he is getting outcoached by younger coaches IMO and the fact that San Fran changed so dramatically is proof enough that we can
too . I like the young LB's and as much heat that
Grant takes is more about playing a Vet than having
another rookie get toasted .Grant is past his prime
but its management that dropped the ball on personal
decisions . I have never seen a Giants defense look so
clueless in a long while .
It was a stark contrast with the look of the Saints defense. They have similar talent to what we have based on our level of injury. But look at the pressure they were generating. If they played defense the way the Giants did, the score would have been 50 to 50. They did what they needed to do. I'm done with Fewell.
the League wants offense at any price, and it wants qb's protected. Putting pressure on the passer is not something a D can rely on. Yet, our draft, player acquisition and D philosophy have all centered on d linemen who can get to the passer. Unfortunately, they aren't getting there and the back 7 is getting burnt.
Perhaps it is time to reverse that: draft the back seven and if you happen to find a pass rusher in later rounds, great, but at least you've got some guys in the back 7 who can hang with the opposition.
When I saw Antrell Rolle run in a circle in the flats as Jimmy Graham ran down the seam I almost pitched the remote control. That's a LB drop zone and NO ONE was in the area but Rolle dropped anyway and Graham zipped by untouched down the seam. Even if your OLB is dropping you pick up who crosses your face and funnel them inside to your deep help and Rolle did the complete opposite as Corey Webster covered the deep third on the outside where no one was. It was sheer confusion and most likely on overwrought scheme that didn't challenge the Saints but hoped they wouldn't beat us over the head. The same recipe we used to slow down the high flying Rams of 10 years ago is the one you used for this offense too. IT's a timing offense and the only way to defend it is to disrupt it and the few times we did apply A gap pressure it worked but it was way way too few.
Great write-up, Joey...thanks.
this is a PRESS MAN team and the few games they've played well in the last 3 years they've been in man w c-web on the other's teams #1.
just like it was an odd fit when coughlin hired tim lewis from pitt, who was running a 34 zone. then we drafted cweb and madison (press-man CBs) and put them in this scheme. and it was odd when they said sheridan was gonna keep Spags scheme, then he changed to a base cover 2 zone.
it is beyond crystal clear man is what works best for this personnel group. why not continue to put c-web on the #1 and let Ross and Prince man up the other guys? stay in a 2 deep-man.
but u can't really blame fewell. they employed him to bring in his system with the personnel they decided to give him and then required to keep all the old position coaches in place (w exception of waufle who they didn't want anymore).
it's hard to believe a guy as smart as coughlin keeps willingly making that mistake. this whole thing (w the exception of the 2 spags years) reeks of having no bird-eye view which is so unlike tom
Link - ( New Window )
I think Sheridan stunk but I believe Fewell is an average coordinator. Maybe the players would get on board with a superstar coordinator but that shouldn't have to be the case. Most teams don't have that guy
One, his propensity for everything coming wide from the edge. Two, his timid approach to rushing 3 or 4, with one those and out of position DE. Three, the sheer talent, even with injuries, this D does possess. They should not be anywhere near as bad as they are playing.
Under Spags, undrafted DBs were playing well against top caliber opposition. Under Sheridan, it was a out-and-out disaster. Under Fewell, we see persistent zone assignment confusion.
What is Giunta doing exactly?
In the last 15 seasons, the Giants have enjoyed 6 seasons where the DC was either Spags or Fox. In those 6 seasons the team won 3 division titles, 2 NFC Championships and 1 super bowl title. Sandwiched around those 6 seasons was a team that had similiar talents and roster makeup but a team that struggled defensively.
This team has wasted some talented teams over the past 15 seasons and the primary reason is due to the DC. We went from Fox to Lynn. Fail. We went from Tim Lewis to Spags. Win. We went from Spags to Sheridan. Vomit. We went from Sheridan to Fewell. More vomit.
It's. All. About. The Coaching. The Cowboys had absolute SHIT in the secondary for a month or two and they held it together this season. They have question marks to this day and yet they are holding things together. The Jets have one great player and a couple of solid players and they play better D than the Giants.
The Giants have more talent than some of you want to believe and if you think Michael Boley is saving this defense, think again. If he plays last night the Saints still score too many points.
Let's not forget the unforgivable collapse last year to the eagles.
We saw this happen in 2009 against US, let alone other teams, and the disastrous results. Mind boggling that we couldn't devise a different means of attack.
Fewell is terrible. Webster, Ross, Phillips, Rolle, Kiwi, Canty, Osi, Joseph, Tuck, Boley, etc. I know it's not the '85 Bears defense, but how much talent do you need to field a competitive defense?? Spags had James Butler, Gibril Wilson, and graybeards like Madison and McQuarters in his defensive backfield, and still managed to slow down high-powered offenses in big spots. It was an incredible coaching achievement.
I am going to go to a voodoo shaman and try to get Spags fired in St L tomorrow and hired as DC back in NY. ASAFP.
I just don't get it, and frankly I don't think he does either.
JPP is most effective coming from the edge, and has shown it time and time again but since everyone has been "healthy" he is rarely there on passing downs. They instead have him running into the center since he "can disrupt the passing lanes"
Now that I think of it, I don't know what's more embarrassing- the amount of time he plays over the nose or the amount of 3 man pass rushes we use. You think Fewell would have learned his lesson against Philly with the 3 man rushes but nope, instead continues to drop players into this zone that has not worked all year. But lets keep doing that considering the strength of our defense is the pass rush and our CBs playing press man coverage.
Every game we come out in zone and let up early scores and every game he then has to adjust to man to man but most of the time its to late and we are digging ourselves out of a hole.
He is coaching scared, and I much rather this team go down swinging then with mental and communication erros.
Lastly- its obvious Grant is DONE, and Rolle should not be in the slot. Let Prince play in all nickel situations and HAVE 3 CORNERBACKS ON THE FIELD LIKE EVERY OTHE TEAM IN THE NFL does in Nickel and let Rolle go back to Safety instead of this nonsense 3 safety set.
Everyone wants to complain about injuries and the hand we were dealt but that is one obvious move that could only help, it can't get any worse.
I don't know I am coming to terms that our defense is just not that good, and I am being kind right now.... Everyone had talked about how ELi has been carrying the team on his shoulders. and he has, but let's face it..if the defense could hold a lead then we wouldn't ahve to rely on Eli for heroics... Gruden kept alluding to a game plan, if the GIants can stick around, in the 4th Eli will win the game...I know Chucky was talking out of his ass, but if he wasn't then that is one of the dumbest game plans I have ever heard...
Eli came to play, Cruz, JPP and Herzlich and Nicks, hell I will give an honorable mention to Jacobs up until his bonehead dance that could have been 15 yds...Osi seemed to be walking fine to the lockeroom (but I am no doctor), Tuck, I get it! he is not even close to 100% but know it not only shows it hurts the team. Canty, was he even on the field last night??? OUR LBs are ....well....after Boley is there any LBs with any experience on the team?? Jerry, you fucked up there and BAllard and Cruz bailed your ass out, but Jones, Williams have NOT!!! Goff goes down and you don't comb the waiver wires for some veteran presence for LB????
The future looks birght on more than a few fronts. We have Eli!!! Nicks, Cruz, Barden (we will see about Mario)Ballard had a bad game against the Iggles, but he was more than effective last night. With the return of T2 with CWeb and the Prince (We will see about ROss in the nickel) are solid and may very well be more shut down than we have had in a while. Our DEs are still beasts, JPP and Kiwi are the future and Tuck when healthy is still Tuck. Canty is well, a disappearing act. Joseph gets man handled..
SO my glaring weaknesses!!! Linebackers.... we dont have any...Fewell plays this zone and our LBs are just not good enough or experienced enough to play leaving the hole the size of my mother in laws ass right over the middle. TEs like Graham, Celek, Witten, Cooley must look at us on the schedule and lick thier chops. Baas, our center, jury is still out, but how does a center draw a false start penalty stalling a drive at midfield???? never mind he is getting assraped at the line..we are lucky Eli is durable and still standing nevermind having a career year. Runningback, what can we say? Jacobs is NOT the battering ram he was a few years agao, Bradshaw is ALWAYS have ankle and foot problems, Ware??? no comment.... De'Rel Scott( I am one of those idiots that wanted him in a few snaps, got my wish).
I am not even going into coaching other than to say I am a huge Coughlin guy, BUT....... Perry Fewell just doesn't get that his personnel just doesn't fit his system or schemes....square pegs in round holes. there is some serious talent on the 1st and 3rd level of Defense.....
Thanks for letting vent guys!!!!
Also - outside of the Packers, who doesn't have a 'swoon'. This team has been patchwork, Ballard is the TE, Cruz is the top receiver, the line is dismantled and not performing, the LBs are rookies - it's a transition year, and the team is competing. This was the first blowout, done by a rested, surgical offense at home. Everyone recognzied that this was a brutal stretch, and yet, no one can stomach the 'brutal' part. There's always the call for blood, or call for coaches who if you compare - probably would NOT do a better job, it's just that they have that new coach smell. Having the team be a consistent competitor in what is ultimately a crap shoot should make for less blood-thirsty fans.
This year Fred and Vernon Davis,NE's 2 TEs and Graham have had success with whatever you want to call Fewell's defense. But, with Kiwi at LB and no MLB, if we go back to man coverage, then expect Finley and Witten to have big games.I'm not opposed to doing so, but it exposes the very position(MLB) that I think Fewell is trying to compensate for.
I don't think there is enough imagination or ability to change things up. I'd never sit back and let a team pick me apart. I'd go down swinging. I don't see that here.
We need a new philosophy, and quite frankly, new energy on that side of the ball.
I think it comes in the form of a head coaching change, unfortunately. But TC did hire the guy, so he's accountable.
We've now seen similar issues of "intensity", confusion and the like under two different coordinators. Do we just keep running through coordinators or do we acknowledge that perhaps the personnel on defense isn't as good as we think or at least, does not match up well with very fast teams like the Eagles and the Saints.
They played hard for most of the game - probably need to work on pass rush but they got some hits and should have had two sacks. When the Saints won it all - they beat teh Pats during the regular season pretty easily.
Tuck is injured. He just can't do anything.
Kiwi IS NOT a LB. But he has to play LB because of the injuries.
We have second tier guys, that are slow, playing starting LB for us. You can scheme all you want, you can't hide a lack of talent.
How many of us said "ohhh sh*t, now Ross has to start" when TT went down. Now all of a sudden it's Fewell's fault that Ross gets beat constantly. We knew Ross was 2nd tier before the season.
For those that have played football, you know that you have to play zone when you're corners can't cover that great and your front 4 don't get pressure.
That Coughlin/Reese brought him back shows they are clueless.
Coughlin/Fewell should have been let go after the epic collapse and failed season, but instead, Mara claimed 10-6 is a good season (so what if you miss the playoffs?) and would not be goaded into a coaching change.
Ownership is not committed to winning, this is clear. I wish they would sell the team.
good defensive call...vick doing what he does best
I can't fault the calls, the player needs to execute (and the plays were right there there to be made).
Second, if PF had sat back, and the Eagles still came back, we'd be saying the opposite. Not sure if playing it safe was the option either, since our safties let Brent Celeck go 70 yards after we had just scored. On the very next play!!!
The onside kick, and other things like the stars being aligned right, had a lot to do with that debacle.
Vanilla gets you killed. These aren't the 1980's New York Football Giants defense.
by DL players and LBers,and our Db's are tackling the
RB's close to line...
That play was the one that convinced me he has not a clue
Rolle takes a lot of heat here but as a safety he was one of our most effective defenders last year and this year he's been invisible because he's played CB and LB in these ridiculous formations Fewell is coming up with. This huge talent gap does not exist either. I never expected a win last night, in fact I told my wife I expected a 50 point outburst after reading Fewell's scared comments all week.
BTW the injuries we face are nothing unique to us. All teams go through it. The really good DC's find work-arounds that keep their D's competitive.
players are drilled every week to put hands up, stay in your gaps, don't hold, don't jump offsides, no stupid penalties, no taunting, hold on to the ball, etc...
but every week (hell, every year) we see offsides penalties, fights, holding, fumbles
it's not all coaching. players just don't execute week in and week out
fans blame the lack of energy on coaching. that's dumb in my opinion as well.
the motivation for a player is....if i play hard, i get paid well, i win games, i'm not frustrated all week, my life outside of football is better because i'm happy, i have a chance to win a ring and have ultimate bragging rights among my peers. you walk around your city and random people tell you how great you are 24/7. that's big for a male ego. i mean...if a player can't get up 14 weeks out of 16, then shame on them. it's the ultimate "get out what you put in" sport.
SHO'NUFF : 5:30 am
Coughlin has to sign off on Pussy Fuel's game plan. He hired the guy. TC should be the one under fire.
you guys want to act like Fewell has somehow lost his mind. Let's assume he's a logical professional.
Why would he rush three? Maybe to confuse the opposition, maybe to double team receivers, maybe to help out a cover man who is struggling.
Why would he invent a position for Rolle? Maybe to spy Sproles, maybe to get more speed in Prince on the field? Maybe to try and take away the quick pass.
Why would he use JPP at DT? Maybe to get the very inside rush Joey mentioned. Maybe to get as many pass rushers on the field at the same time.
It's tough to play with attitude when the opposition is running right by you and you know mo matter what you do, you can't keep up. There is mo scheme or gameplan that is going to make your guys faster.
Reminds me of the story of the 2 envelopes. Ever hear of it? It's an old one. Coach gets canned. He leaves 2 envelopes in his office for the next guy. In this scenario I would have Coughlin leaving them for Reese. First sign of trouble open Envelope 1. Says simply: "Blame me." Second sign of trouble, open 2. This one says "Prepare 2 new envelopes."
The primary failure in this program lies with Reese. He has sucked for 3 years. He could have, for example, gone after Sproules instead of Bradshaw and the weirdness of his running style. Sproules would have been a significant upgrade for this team.
As for how Coughlin and his staff can develop talent: Cruz and Ballard? Cmon who is doing a better job with nonentities like these guys? Reese will get to make his move at the end of this year. But he better choose wisely because the next time around, they might be coming for him.
That display last night was an utter embarassment, yet again. Not unlike what we suffered against GB last year (and most likely will suffer AGAIN next week).
We have enough horses that a better gameplan could have at least limited the damage. I fully believe that. I don't find NO to have "Better horses" than we do on defense. But they stopped us when they needed to. Mostly because their DC made our QB uncomfortable. Yes they gave up plays and yards, but they didn't play so scared to make it so ridiculously easy.
I'm not saying whether yesterday was the coaches fault, the players fault, the Saints being really good, or all three of those things (which is likely the answer), but does anyone really believe the personnel in 2007 on defense was better than today? That team also had a lot of injuries. It started James Butler and Gibril Wilson at safety (Rolle and Phillips are better than them by quite a bit)...Kiwi was out for the season...our LB unit started Pierce, Mitchell, and Torbor.
Does this look anything even remotely like Spags's defense at all ?? No it doesnt..
Fewell is severely overmatched. He should not be a DC... Secondary coach.. fine.. DC. no.. never..
They would have all the spring to get the basics of the scheme Fewell was planning before hit the practice in the training camp.
With the lockout they had to learn it on the fly and to complicate things the team suffered a ton of injuries.
I still have hope on Fewell (and Coughlin).
Retro, good post. I would disagree somewhat on Reese. I thimk he is trying to upgrade defensive team speed, but it's slow going when you can''t keep those guys on the field.
When Reese took over, one of the actions they took was to get rid of players who were talented but constantly hurt. May be time for that again.
In my opinion, the Giants are absolutely afraid of being aggressive on defense and it is simply making things worse and worse instead of covering up weaknesses.
Spy on Sproles???? That's your rationale for your best run supporting safety to be dropping into the flats where NO ONE was? Why not use your tools to your advantage and put your best SS at his best spot instead of weakening two areas? These guys want to line up and go get it, and last night they didn't ant it was clear as day they were confused. That's on the coordinator 100% of the time. You have a week to drill your team and if what you're concocting slows them down every week with new fancy assignments you're missing the point of playing football.
If you can tackle, run, cover, hit, you can play defense and we have guys still who can do that. I put plenty on the players, but when the defense can't even line up, that is on your coordinator, no matter how you and your "coaching doesn't matter" ilk want to spin it and sit on high in judgement of us little folks who just might know what the hell we're talking about. When this same bunch is playing fast and going forward it's a totally different group and don't think for once second that confidence doesn't come from feeling prepared for your opponent and we had none of it last night. When your coach tells you what to expect and it doesn't happen you instantly doubt your coaching and it has a terrible ripple effect on all around you. I've seen it, I've done it, I've been there and sure it wasn't the NFL but people are people and football players are football players and it doesn't take a PhD to see that our troops were lacking confidence in their play calls and preparation. Once that confidence is gone and you are guessing form play to play, you can have 11 All Pros and they will be beaten like a drum if they don't have confidence in their scheme and what they see.
Spare your talking down for someone who can't run circles around 99% of the people here football wise. I know precisely what I saw last night and I am 100% sure that Fewell game planned scared, coached scared and his players knew it. He is over complicating everything and it's paralyzing a team that stopped a 20+ game Patriot home win streak just 3 weeks ago. Those guys aren't gone, the players don't suddenly stink but you can bet your ass the game plan did.
The only way I can describe how stupid it is to deploy Antrell Rolle differently each week is with the spork. It doesn't work as a spoon or a fork and in fact sucks at both because someone thinks its a cure all when in fact it's just a complete waste. Let your fork be a fork, let your spoon be a spoon and don't try to get too fancy with how to deploy your utensils. Silly sounding I know, but Spork Rolle needs to do what he is good at and that is playing SS, supporting the run and being a ball hawk, not a hybrid OLB in some half baked big nickel that gets your team gashed every time its out there. You can stick a spork in Perry Fewell, unless he decides to let his safeties be safeties, start JPP at END, and let his young LBs go play, cover, blitz and worry about the rest later.
Yes. The Giants, forever, have made personnel decisions for the good of the league and the good of the game (as well as, as best as they can, for the good of the Giants). The INTENT of the Rooney rule is that all those minority interviews are supposed to lead to minority hires.
All teams are under increasing pressure to hire minority coaches. The Giants saw this as a win-win-win (Giants, league, and game). They were wrong about #1, but I'm sure they feel good (still) about #2 and #3.
This is also why "character" plays such a big role in their drafting. They don't DO "thug" in an increasingly thuggish league.
Over-scheming to stop Manning last year
Over-scheming to stop San Fran running game
Over-scheming to stop Darren Sproles
I get you want to take away what your opponent does best, but when you are playing short handed like we are, why not concentrate on what we do well and letting players make plays rather than gettin so friggen cute with the personnel and coverages
I think a lot of that had to do with Boley being out.. Fewell has often said that he's the signal caller and that he's important in being able to get guys into position so I think not having him on the field these past 2 weeks was painfully obvious as opposed to the Pats game and the 49ers game prior to him getting injured. There has been a noticeable difference since he's been out.
Whatever's going on, though.. something needs to change and it needs to change quick. It was pretty clear that not a lot of guys knew what they were supposed to be doing.. and even worse, was that eventually it looked like a lot of them flat out quit.
Fewell's insistence on using Grant all the time is mystifyingly stupid. I can't comprehend his logic.
fewell's got 5 games to unfuck himself from these worse-than-sheridan gameplans.
And if we blow the first dallas game I say fire him then.
Something needs to get figured out this week or it'll be a bloodbath against GB.
The Big Nickel exposes us against the run as a tradeoff for purported strength against the pass. Well, in that package, we're certainly struggling against the run and, wouldn't you know it, we're also struggling against the pass out of that formation as well.
And LTS, it's maddening isn't it? The Deon Grant overuse. Prince Amukamara is healthy and on the active gameday roster. Might be worth a shot at a regular nickel package, eh? Or at the very fucking least against the Packers, if you're petrified of them spreading the field, roll out a Big Dime instead of a Big Nickel.
--this post not stolen from Joey--
Another example of Perry trying to fit the player in his system instead of playing the skill sets of the players in the system......
Rolle as a hybrid OLB?? Tuck as a DT?? Jones/Herzlich playing zone as MLBs???? with your best safety playing OLB???? Kiwi at OLB and not blitzing him??? Cweb and Ross better man to man cover corners and your put them in a cover 2 or cover 3 with 10 yd cushions and no jamming to disrupt timing when you know that the Saints routes are all based on timing???? what part do you guys and I get as die hard fans that a professional NFL DC doesn't???? SMH!!
Coaching matters. It is everything and at fault 100% for every loss, certainly not. But the same people who insisted Tim Lewis was not at fault for anything are now back in full force as the team implodes again.
but NO, we like to read and react on both sides of the ball...it's no wonder we look like shit as a team.
but no matter. Let's accept your premise that we have these wonderfully swift db's. Why would Fewell "coach scared"? lost his mind? Attempting to cover deficiencies that exist solely in his imagination? Bribed? If you are going to accuse an experienced professional football coach of "coaching scared" then it is incumbent on you to explain what he is afraid of.
similarly, why would Fewell move the Spork around when it is so obvious to an authority like yourself that he should be playing the run? Serendipity? Indulging some whim? Punish Rolle for his last interview?
All you have is a case of confirmation bias. You are no different than most of the other fools on here despite your posturing.
And he's infinitely more qualified to pass judgment on a player by evaluating game tape than any of us.
Nice ad hominem
This is the classic coaching vs talent debate that was so prevalent on BBI in the late 90's. This thread is classic BBI.
It's clear to me that the talent is being misused by the DC. The players are better than giving up 50 points to anyone. A job of a coach is to put the players in the best position for them to succeed and playing someone out of position like PF has done is counter to that. If he was OC I'm sure he would be playing Jacobs as fullback.
And then in the blink of a eye four more talented starters go down: Bradshaw, Beatty, Boley (a critical loss) and Tuck, whose head seems to be in a very bad place right now.
If that isn't enough to justify the horrible defense, then add in the ridiculous sight of these rookie linebackers, none of them even worth a middle draft choice, running around in confusion. The front office really screwed the pooch when they didn't sign a veteran linebacker after Goff and Sintim went down.
So I'm no fan of Fewell but stick Thomas, Boley and healthy Tuck back in the lineup and you have a pretty talented defense.
They might have even played hard.
I don't think we will win any game when the objective will be outscoring them.
The Saints couldn't be stopped on offense and their defense is actualy pretty good. Solid D-line. Decent LB's and some good DB's.
On offense the only players I have faith in are Eli, Nicks, and Cruz. Ballard had it 2 weeks ago. Snee hasn't played like we expect a pro-bowl guard to play. Diehl is looking terrible. I guess when we moved him back to Guard he gave up. Beatty is weak, Cole did whatever he wanted. Baas has actually looked decent, havent seen him pass block much but he gets movement on run blocking. Mckenzie has the physical strength still but no speed to pass block.
JPP looks good but he doesn't play DE like I like a DE to. He is a better overall DE than Osi but a lot of plays he is just putting his hands on the tackle and not really rushing. That could be what he is suppose to do so I wont say anything. Tuck when healthy is still good. Osi isn't as good as he was but can still rush the pass decently. DT's are about average. Canty has made some good plays and Joseph is athletic for a DT. Too many injuries at LB to expect much. Williams has looked good, he is a legit every down LB. Herzlich is a 2 down LB, Cant cover the pass to save his life but has great bulk for a run stopping LB. Not having Boley hurts. He was having a great season. Really impressed me.
Ross has 4 int's but gets beat too much, Amukamara has been pretty good. he has made some plays but VS the eagles had Young not been the QB he would have given up a big TD instead of getting the interception. Webster looks like he is declining, he is average at best and cant cover anybody with speed. Phillips and Rolle are decent. Grant has been a big part of our defense.
and you are a guy who generally does not bail on a coaches. so, this post says a lot
Dallas, NO, GB, Chicago. Was there anything that NO did that stood out in their secondary. Dallas is awful. Everyone has thrown on GB this year.
I totally think Webster is miscast playing zone. He was playing at a high level playing man coverage. This defense has him looking like pre SB Webster. Let him play.
Ross is clearly lost in zone, yet Fewell still goes out there in zone. This, in my opinion, and I may be wrong, is what is killing the S play. He has Philips doing nothing but playing to not get beat deep. As a result, he is never close enough to make plays. Is anyone here happy at what Rolle is being asked to do.
You need fast LB's in todays NFL - Boley is that and so is Williams - he just happens to be rookie. If you have LB's who can run, utilize them.
Someone explain to me the benefit of dropping Tuck or JPP in coverage. You weaken the pass rush and they can't cover. Yet we see this game after game after game.
The Ravens have not had a good corner since McCallister, yet they still play man and let their S make plays - same for Pittsburgh.
How many 80 yd drives has this defense given up? If my defense is giving up 25 ppg, I would rather see them attack than not.
The play calls that drive me crazy on offense are the ones that seem to scream "A run is the obvious thing to do here, so let's pass" - when the run is obvious because it's most likely to work. You also hear about TC's offense being at least somewhat harder to learn than other systems. Then, likewise, you see these overly clever packages on defense.
You put it together and it looks like a team mentality - which is all about TC.
That was quite an awesome evisceration.
Not to too our horn here, but the popular opinion on BBI has been right far more than it's been wrong. If most of the people think a coach is in over his head....it's probably the truth.
Fassel was a polarizing figure but more fans thought he was average at best and guess what, he hasn't gotten a job in the NFL and probably never will. All of Fassel's DCs, save for Fox, were bashed around here and they are all out of the NFL. All the guys under Coughlin from Huffnagel to Lewis and Sheridan...same deal.
When we start to panic week after week and have a large sample size to go on concerning an asstistant coach, it's always warranted.
Even with coughlin in 2006, we all felt like he probably needed to change things up, hire some new coaches and maybe even endear himself to today's athlete...some wanted him gone...others were willing to give him another shot. BBI Pretty much nailed it.
If Perry Fewell makes us all eat crow it will be a first. More often than not, we have been dead on accurate with regards to under performing DCs. Sad but true. I trust the overall judgement of this place save for a few looneys. Scary I know.
I didn't read the whole thread.
I've been buried at work since Monday morning and haven't had a chance to spend any time mulling this over.
Joey made a few very good points. The first being the lack of inside pressure.
We were playing against a vertically challenged QB.
You need to get after him up the middle.
DTs aren't getting home? There's a solution.
Use the DTs to pinch the guards, create a gap and send the Mike.
Hell, our Mike can't cover for shit anyway, so you might as well send him. The Mike can't get home in this scenario?
No problem, move Kiwi to middle when you call an A gap blitz and let that freak of nature extend that enormous wingspan upwards and block the midget's passes.
That doesn't work, run the inside scissors with a DT and a LBer. Running the loop stunt with the DL is just too fucking slow with a QB like Brees.
The point is, we need to have back up plans and we need to trust these guys to pull them off.
Perry is a good guy, but has a real problem with trust. He doesn't trust his guys to make a play so he plays it safe.
Won't cut it in HS, won't cut it in college and it damn sure don't cut it in the NFL. You've gotta have answers, and you've got to have balls to call a defense.
You want those guys to trust you, you have to trust them.
It's simple.
He's done this before.
He's also bounced back a few times and followed up a stinker with a good game plan that shows his worth.
He knows the game so it's possible that other nut will drop and he'll improve. But, we're out of time and it's time to get it, or go home.
Any Giant fan worth his salt is pulling for him to rebound and make this work. You might doubt he can do it, but you're still pulling for him.
Back to the salt mines. I'm knee deep in alligators and the fuckers are hungry.
I am in total agree with posters who espose the up the middle on Breese, which is why I so hate the "3 rushers" defense. Against GB, we never got any where close to the QB,and he just stood there for what seemed like a lifetime to pick out a receiver, and if he did scramble it was always to his right, where he threw to a WR who was able to finally break coverage and come back to him due to the time along the sideline. So I just don't understand rushing only three. I also agree that blitzing from the edge didn't do the job either.
Thank You,
SteveMD