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3rd and 5...2:20 Left in the Game...Perry Fewell Has...

Eric from BBI : Admin : 12/13/2011 3:16 pm
Giants in man-to-man defense and calls a blitz...just like we want him to do...

And Aaron Ross gets beat as badly as you can get beat on what should have been a 75-yard touchdown, ending the Giants season.

But the ball is overthrown and the Giants comeback to survive.

I've given Fewell grief as have others, but perhaps that play is an indication of why he's been more conservative.
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GMan  
LG in NYC : 12/13/2011 4:53 pm : link
The other thing I'd mention is that - without looking - I wonder if those teams you mentioned give up yards, etc b/c they usually are in a big lead.

Whereas we play close games and give up our yards/points in key situations.
my point to my last post  
robbieballs2003 : 12/13/2011 4:53 pm : link
Is basically it seems like we should be taking more chances.
When you watch the Giants defense  
ghost718 : 12/13/2011 4:53 pm : link
and you see things like

3 man rushes with your best end lined up at DT,taking on triple teams at times
4 man rushes in which just about every player is watching the qb,not coming forward
Dave Tolefson at DT

Than you take a look in the secondary,and 90% of the time your safeties only show up when they are making a tackle.

That tells you all you need to know about Fewell.All he cares about is turnovers and not giving up the big play.Getting after the quarterback...that's not him.

Right now the Giants have to live with it and see how far they can get,but part of me says not to get my hopes up.



lets not forget that we have played 3 top skill teams  
CGiants07 : 12/13/2011 4:55 pm : link
the last 3 weeks. when we played patriots we seemed to play pretty well.If we give up the yards and points this week vs low skill washington team(especially with fred davis suspended) then ill be more concerned.The numbers were a bit skewed on how we played the run sunday and during the yr.Early in the yr we just gave up 1 or 2 big runs every game. On sunday we gave up some runs in the 1st half but in the second half we did a good job. I give no blaim to prince on that long pass to robinson since the only reason he was open is we had zero pressure or anything so he was able to sit and wait.One thing that gets overlooked in the dallas game is how good of a job we did on witten and bryant(save the blown coverage td)
One point I would like to make is this  
Semipro Lineman : 12/13/2011 4:55 pm : link
At what point do the players take the blame for their confusion and mis-communications? I'm sorry but I'm looking at the replay of the Dez Bryant blown coverage TD and I can't help but feel that was on the Safety. How much blame can you assign the DC when the safety jumps a short route?
people need to re-watch games  
ITaLiRiCaN : 12/13/2011 4:57 pm : link
and count how many times we blitz. We blitz at a normal rate, it just never, ever works. That itself is more frustrating than our subpar coverage. We can't get consistent pressure with our front 4, and we can't get pressure when we blitz. Our talent just isn't as good as we think.
robbie - I'm in no way, shape or form  
section125 : 12/13/2011 4:58 pm : link
in favor of the 3 man rush - I loathe it. I think the OT fell must have falllen sleep there on JPPs sack.
I just cannot believe that this D cannot get one or two blitzes a game to work. At least chase the QB a little. They are futile. How many 3rd and longs have they given up the 1st downs on in the past 6 weeks? It has become a surprise when they do stop somebody rather than a surprise when they give up the 1st down. Its infuriating, even with the injuries they should get some pressure a few times per week.
semipro  
robbieballs2003 : 12/13/2011 4:58 pm : link
Rolex said he was where he was supposed to be. That means one of two things. One, Webster doesn't know what was going on or he didn't hear the call. If he didn't hear the call that is on Rolle. If a corner doesn't hear the coverage that is on the safety. If he did then it is on Webster.
i think bino's point  
Room814 : 12/13/2011 4:58 pm : link
at 4:15 is one of the keys. whether it is man or zone, it doesn't seem that fewell is particularly good at teaching guys what to do. they seem lost way too much. and we really haven't seen much improvement from anyone. is there a defender who anyone thinks has shown dramatic improvement since the season began? even without training camp, you'd think that some of these young players would be getting better as a result of all the reps and work. compare it to the breakout guys we have on offense - ballard and cruz, or even hynoski. they are young, inexperienced, and seem to have improved pretty dramatically as the season has gone on. we haven't seen that at all on D.
In some respects this goes back to Joey's post a few weeks ago  
LG in NYC : 12/13/2011 4:59 pm : link
IMO.

If the players are playing scared or confused - then you're likely to see the breakdowns/missed assignments/confusion that we've seen with some regularity this season.

While that is, of course, the players responsibility - I am inclined to also point the finger at the coaching.
jesus..  
BillKo : 12/13/2011 4:59 pm : link
we are on our way to giving up 400 points?

That's excuse enough for a change......injuries aside.
LG  
GMANinDC : 12/13/2011 4:59 pm : link
Almost every game we won has been in the 4th quarter..So, no it's not like we have big leads and give up points..my point is, not really to you but to others who keep pointing out fewell, Wiliams suppose to be this guru defesnive coordinator and his Saints are not that good defensiviely..Belichik is also the defensive guru..

I don't think fewell is the greatest, but i think he's playing with far inferior talent right now with the injuries and if you look at cetain losses they had this year, 49'ers, Eagles, Seahawks, they were held to very low scores at times during the games and the offense gave them no help at all..
Under no circumstance should the players  
tito wooten : 12/13/2011 5:02 pm : link
not know where to be 2 years into having a DC. If it wasn't for the offense, I can't imagine what our record would be.
what about  
giantfanboy : 12/13/2011 5:02 pm : link
a 3 man rush and then a delayed blitz???
section i hear you  
robbieballs2003 : 12/13/2011 5:02 pm : link
When I saw I don't mind it I mean very rarely. Here is a good time for it. If we have consistently blitzed on second and short then most likely the opposing offense might try a quick slant or something like that. If we drop 8 into coverage then maybe we get someone jumping the route for a pick six.

Like I said, I'm not a fan of it often but once a game doesn't bother me.
what is blitzing at a "normal" rate?  
uberpwnage : 12/13/2011 5:05 pm : link
?
section  
Mighty : 12/13/2011 5:09 pm : link
its not a big deal but here is what im talking about. Lets look at the 40 times vs 3 cone drills from the combine.

Jacobs ran a 4.56 40 time and a 7.5 3 cone
Bradshaw ran a 4.55 40 and a 6.7 3 cone
Ross ran a 4.4 40 and a 6.7 3 cone.

Jacobs ran as fast a 40 yd dash as Bradshaw but a much worse 3 cone. Thats because Jacobs has much less quickness and acceleration than Bradshaw. And Ross even though he ran a faster 40 than Bradshaw they ran the exact same 3 cone. you would expect that with that big a difference in 40 time that he would have a better 3 cone number. Thats because although Ross is fast he doesnt have the quickness and acceleration you would expect from someone with that 40 time.
I think there's a missing personality element  
HBart : 12/13/2011 5:11 pm : link
I can't think of a great defense that doesn't have at least one player who's also a larger than life guy like a Strahan or Armstead or Pierce. If you recall when Strahan was playing our record without him on the field was abysmal. I get the sense if Strahan, or a guy like him, was on this team he'd go a long way to keeping guys like Ross's head in the game - both on field and during the week.
Iam friends with Kevin Ogeltree who is on Dallas  
BIG FRED : 12/13/2011 5:13 pm : link
and when i was asking him about the game last friday he said your # 31 is gonna have a long night .lol ..So Dallas defenitly was looking to throw on Ross ..
Every looks at each play separately  
WideRight : 12/13/2011 5:14 pm : link
But plays influence each other. QB hits accumulate. We beat Romo mercilessly in '07, and knocked him out altogether with Boley blitz last year....

Sometimes even a failed blitz can be a very important part of winning a game. Who thinks that Romo would have missed that pass if he wasn't afraid of the blitz?
HBart  
robbieballs2003 : 12/13/2011 5:15 pm : link
Wait until JPP starts to become the outspoken leader of our D. When a guy of his talent level never stops hustling and he calls you out then you listen. Players with immense talent that bust their ass all the time hold a lot of weight. It becomes contagious.i
wideright  
robbieballs2003 : 12/13/2011 5:17 pm : link
Great point. Lose the battle, win the war.
Agreed  
Semipro Lineman : 12/13/2011 5:22 pm : link
Quote:
Under no circumstance should the players
tito wooten : 5:02 pm
not know where to be 2 years into having a DC.


Which is why I blame the players. (Provided that the player was here for two years) Dudes in Buffalo seemed to be able to get it. Of course, the fact that some players are playing out of position and there is a new first year guy next to them....

Oh frack it. I'll just blame the DC
These same players  
tito wooten : 12/13/2011 5:24 pm : link
who were here for the Spags years didn;t have trouble back then, and they were younger and less experienced. Guys like Rolle and Webster shouln't be having problems. It's on Fewell. He's terrible.
semipro  
robbieballs2003 : 12/13/2011 5:28 pm : link
The players are at fault but this has been going on all year. It's Fewell's job to eliminate it. Why are veteran players having trouble? We aren't talking just rookies here.
HBart  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 12/13/2011 5:31 pm : link
I said the same thing in a recent preview. We're missing a personality on defense.
BIG FRED  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 12/13/2011 5:32 pm : link
thanks for the scoop.
I loved the call there  
Kyle : 12/13/2011 5:57 pm : link
and if we had lost, it was Miles Austin getting a clean release against Aaron Ross that would have done it, not the decision to blitz in-and-of itself.

I said on another thread the following:
Quote:
Ryan and Fewell are taking two opposite approaches to the same problem
Kyle : 1:41 am
Your defense can't cover for shit, and it seems to get worse as the game goes on, presumably as the pass rushers wear down some.

Ryan says "fuck it, send ALL the blitzers!"

Fewell says "fuck it, three man rush and drop ALL the defenders!"


Based on my own likes and dislikes for defensive philosophy, when it comes to having a team that can't cover, I prefer the "go down swinging" method versus the "sit back and play the odds" method.
Fewell never learns  
frets : 12/13/2011 5:58 pm : link
Ross is best on the outside and terrible in the slot for the most part. He doesn't have a good feel for covering in space without getting a bump at the line. He needs to press and use the sideline. I think we are poorly coordinated and guys are not on the same page.
off man trail coverage  
frets : 12/13/2011 6:04 pm : link
& read and react schemes. Aggressive on 1st & 2nd down early in games and then coaching scared on 3rd down and late in a close game.
Tuck (on FAN) said DAL offense  
bluefin : 12/13/2011 6:15 pm : link
lined up in ways that threw off NYG defensive checkdowns - and that resulted in some confusion in the secondary.

Maybe NYG needs to devise some slick CB and safety blitzes.
I have always advocated getting agressive and creative with  
alligatorpie : 12/13/2011 6:16 pm : link
the DL gap assignments rather than lots of blitzing.

however, this would take lots of coodination with and training of the linebackers, as they would have the duties in minimizing the run defense risks associated with agressive DL gap assignment varieties.

Maybe with goff gone and blackburn back we can look for blackburn to know the system that must have gone along with such gap varieties during the spags days and can mitigate run defense risks that such a variety of gap reposnsibilties would entail?
one would imagine that an advantage of man cover is that  
alligatorpie : 12/13/2011 6:21 pm : link
with the DL getting aggressive with varieties of gap schemes...the neccessary adjustments would fall only on the linebackers...and not domino all the way back to the secondary.

"close man cover until the whistle blows."

conversly- with safety blitz and zone play on the other hand, the entire D would need 2 be on same page.

bluefin LOL  
JerseyJoe : 12/13/2011 6:30 pm : link
how many times are we going to hear how the opposing offense confused us or we weren't prepared or caught off guard LOL
The fact is that this defense  
The Turk : 12/13/2011 6:33 pm : link
is predicated on getting pressure with the down 4 and an occasional blitz. If the front 4 don't get there and with a one legged Tuck and no Osi that will happen often it leaves the back 7 with a solid CB (Webster), a solid LB who is just back from a fairly serious leg injury (Boley), a solid S who is often used as a slot CB where he is less than solid (Rolle), a solid FS who didn't play last week (Phillips), a rookie who likely will develop but isn't ready to cover top flight TEs (Williams), a converted DE who doesn't play well backing up (Kiwi), a 3rd CB who has to play as a #2 (Ross) and absolutely no NFL caliber MLB so that we need to use a slow over the hill S (Grant) in the base formation. There is no chance that this D will stop anyone if that is who is taking the field. Fortunately Dallas decided to never double JPP - I doubt that Washington throws a pass without there being a double team or a chip on JPP.
The danger of blitzing is always the same  
BlackLight : 12/13/2011 6:38 pm : link
If the blitz doesn't get home, you leave yourself open for the big play.

And the benefits are obvious. You can either get a sack or get the QB off his spot or force him to rush a throw.

To me, being bad at m2m isn't the reason you don't blitz. If you don't blitz well, or don't disguise them well (Romo caught us a couple of times), that's when you shouldn't blitz.
If the Giants can't stop Washington  
philbeam68 : 12/13/2011 6:45 pm : link
running the ball (who's 31st) in the league then it's really time to get worried. Our QB, few lucky plays, and a couple of drops made this team 7-6. I'm guilty and started Santana Moss in my spot in the playoffs in FF because Of Jennings being hurt, I knew he was playing the Giants D this week. Either way, at this point of the year we're always going to constantly hear about injuries. Since the Fewell era has dawned upon us, even with a healthy defense didn't the Giants get thwomped? <-- Not a real word.

Could it be it's a combination of both scheme and injuries? The Giants D did shut out Tom Brady and an entire half in Foxboro. I thought they played OK against Philly except for that final drive during a game which the offense was nonexistent. I'm hoping that defense vs Philly can came out against Washington and force Sexy Rexy into some turnovers.
Since John Fox  
Arnie D. : 12/13/2011 6:50 pm : link
left, we've had nothing but fair to mostly horrible defense except for the two years under Spags. Lynn, Lewis, Sheridan and now Fewell.

We've seen this movie far too many times. We know how it ends.
yea but  
philbeam68 : 12/13/2011 6:56 pm : link
Washington and NYJ are not exactly The Greatest Show on Turf. Yet again, I hope I don't bite my tongue saying that seeing Rex Grossman going for three straight games vs the Giants with 300 yards. Would be four but he had 296 with the Bears in 07, I should wash my filthy mouth out with soap now...
Since 2007 is the Gold Standard let's compare some stats.  
compton : 12/13/2011 7:56 pm : link
Letís compare 2007 stats to 2010 and 2011 stats.

In 2007, the Giants defense was ranked 17th in points allowed while giving up 21.9 points a game. Also, the defense ranked 7th in yards per game. The team had 53 sacks, 15 interceptions, 14 forced fumbles and 5 defensive touchdowns.

In 2010, the Giants defense ranked 17th in points allowed while giving up 21.7 points a game. Also, the defense ranked 7th in yards per game. The team had 46 sacks, 16 interceptions, 30 force fumbles and 0 defensive touchdowns.

2011, The Giants defense is ranked 30th in yards per game (ahead of both Green bay and New England). The defense is ranked 27th in points allowed at 26.8 points per game. Also, the team has 36 sacks, 15 interceptions, 9 force fumbles and one defensive touchdown.

We can see that with a relatively healthy squad the Giants defense under Fewell was statistically identical to the 2007 defense under the golden boy. So, why the drop off this year? We can see from 2010 that Fewell can put a competitive product on the field.
Rolle  
Reb8thVA : 12/13/2011 8:05 pm : link
Ross, Webster, and Grant are all vets. There should not be so many blown coverages this late in the season. Maybe it's coaching, or lack of execution but it's ridiculous to say it's all injury related. If it is on the players shouldn't Reese also shoulder some blame?
In 2007  
philbeam68 : 12/13/2011 8:17 pm : link
In the second half of the season, 3 of those 4 games the Giants won the opponent was held to ONE touchdown. They held teams to field goals and low points enough for a low scoring offense to walk away with wins. It seemed like that defense would always allow a touchdown early in the game (Chicago and AT Philly) and for some reason that would be it as far as touchdowns were concerned. Other than Buffalo jumping out to a 14-0 lead, we relied on the defense to get the Giants to the playoffs. Oh, and 2 of the last 3 TDs the Giants had were scored by the defense and that 88-yard scamper by Bradshaw. A good way to ice a playoff spot.
in 2007  
robbieballs2003 : 12/13/2011 8:27 pm : link
I remember a defense shutting down Tampa, getting a game clinching interception against Dallas, a pick by Webster in OT to basically win the game for us and holding one of the best offenses of all time to 14 points and a beat up Brady.

Do you have any confidence that this team is capable of one game like that let alone an entire post season run?
A big part of the problem is our blitzes don't get home  
chris r : 12/13/2011 8:30 pm : link
you can live with guys occassionally running free if odds are the QB is going to make an off balanced throw.
lol robbie not even close  
JerseyJoe : 12/13/2011 8:38 pm : link
this team has no personality or swagger. Fewell is less like Spags and more like Tim Lewis. We need a good DC here that will inspire this team to greatness like Spagnuolo did
In 2007  
Mason : 12/13/2011 8:49 pm : link
Giants led the league in sacks. I wouldn't use 2007 as a threshold. As someone pointed out, healthy Strahan, Osi, Robbins, Cofield with Tuck subbing. LOL, give PF that and he may get a call from the Redskins and Rams too. Get pressure up front and many of these secondary problems go away.
Eric  
Mike in Long Beach : 12/13/2011 9:08 pm : link
While I agree with you that going man-to-man and blitzing is what I would want the Giants to do there, I don't think it's fair to predicate an entire argument on one defensive call and one play where the DB got severely burned.

In fact, when analyzing one play, there shouldn't be any "go-to" defensive play call. If there was, then the Cowboys would just run a play that matches up well with it.
So does it say something  
oldutican : 12/13/2011 9:21 pm : link
that 3 of the best passing teams in the NFL (GB, NE & NYG) rank at the bottom in yards allowed per game. Obviously, they don't have great defenses. But their offenses are also quick strike, which leads to more possessions in a game. Is there a team stat for yards allowed per possession?
compton  
HBart : 12/13/2011 9:52 pm : link
That's a very good post. Thanks for that.

I'm re-watching the game now, through halftime, and the difference is pretty easy to see without even looking at the secondary. Eli usually has sufficient time to throw, but there's usually at least one guy in on the OL in the process of getting beat. Our DL - which is the supposed strength of the D - by and large is just stoned cold. No-one is beating the guy in front of them. In fact most of the time it doesn't look like the OL is even struggling with the guy coming at them.
My  
blue42 : 12/13/2011 9:57 pm : link
advice would be to blitz Rolle as often as possible since he can't cover anyway.
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