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3rd and 5...2:20 Left in the Game...Perry Fewell Has...

Eric from BBI : Admin : 12/13/2011 3:16 pm
Giants in man-to-man defense and calls a blitz...just like we want him to do...

And Aaron Ross gets beat as badly as you can get beat on what should have been a 75-yard touchdown, ending the Giants season.

But the ball is overthrown and the Giants comeback to survive.

I've given Fewell grief as have others, but perhaps that play is an indication of why he's been more conservative.
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robbie its hard to get a guy free  
nygiants16 : 12/13/2011 3:34 pm : link
when we have no one on our line besides jpp that can rush the passer

i hate to say it but spagnuolo wouldnt be good with this defense either...

people forget our defense was pretty good last year, the reason? we had 3 healthy defensive ends who could get to the qb
I can't figure Ross out...  
hyadoin : 12/13/2011 3:34 pm : link
Has had some really good games... and been awful in others...
Eric....there are so many of those small things....  
Jacobs27 : 12/13/2011 3:35 pm : link
that can change a game it's mind blowing.

Here's one: if Dallas runs on 3rd and 5 with 2:20 left we have to use our final time-out (assuming we stop them). Which means no T.O'.s left to "ice" the kicker at the end of the game and we go to O.T.
in general, the upper half the qb in the league  
jintz4life : 12/13/2011 3:35 pm : link
have better numbers against the blitz
Ross....  
damdevs : 12/13/2011 3:35 pm : link
completely whiffed on the jam!

If I remember correctly it looked like he wasn't even ready for the play.
if we  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 12/13/2011 3:35 pm : link
had more experience at LB, I would move Kiwanuka to end now.

Moving forward, the good news is Jacquian Williams is getting extremely valuable experience. Boley is OK.

But Blackburn was cut for a reason and it showed on Sunday night. He comes out for a play, Jones comes in and botches the tackle in a big gain up the middle.
Ross is terrible  
Adam XLII : 12/13/2011 3:35 pm : link
and his good games are only because his terrible technique occasionally works. He gets beat pretty much every play, and sometimes makes a nice recovery.
zog they also have an all pro linebacker and their secondary is  
nygiants16 : 12/13/2011 3:35 pm : link
MUCH improved...there is a big difference there..

no, it really isnt hard to come up with a blitz to get a guy coming  
robbieballs2003 : 12/13/2011 3:36 pm : link
free.
Herzlich better end up being pretty good  
Adam XLII : 12/13/2011 3:36 pm : link
and Williams definitely will need to improve. He's simply not good enough right now.
or Fewell has changed things up  
HomerJones45 : 12/13/2011 3:36 pm : link
mid-year, and guys don't have it down yet.

or guys are simply trying to cover for the very weak links and the whole thing is breaking down. On the long pass to Robinson down the sideline, Grant went to cover the tight end and didn't get over to help out Prince.

The safeties may very well look bad because they are continually faced with a Hobson's choice of who to cover or which zone is being flooded.

And Rob Ryan sucks. A healthy Ware and some decent linebackers made Ryan look good.
Yea...  
Jon in NYC : 12/13/2011 3:36 pm : link
I don't care if it's a 4-3. If your linebackers suck you aren't going to stop the run, and our MLB especially is atrocious. Goff was a huge loss.
The first quarter of last season  
JW : 12/13/2011 3:37 pm : link
Kiwi looked like a pass-rushing force.

It seems like we haven't seen that--even in glimpses--in a long time. With Tuck and Osi injured, he has to pick up some slack when he plays end and/or joker.
Can we also talk about  
Exit 172 : 12/13/2011 3:37 pm : link
how the interior of the front 7 is getting gashed by the run? Felix Jones came on in relief and dropped 100+.

This defense just does not stop a damned thing. Sure, we have guys missing. But we have a lot of talented players healthy and suited up. This isn't a defense with a bunch of no-name young guys. Canty, Boley, Rolle, Kiwanuka, and Webster are on the field along with JPP. Do all these veterans just stink all of a sudden?

And, yeah, Ross blew it against Austin on that play. Yet the Cowboys still got into field goal range after we took the lead... a week after our 35-35 score against the Packers couldn't hold for shit.

I don't think coaching scared helps anyone. It gets everyone thinking about screwing up instead of succeeding. And that makes people screw up.
The way see it,  
Karma : 12/13/2011 3:37 pm : link
if we play a soft zone, especially 3 man rush, we're going to definitely give up a td, there's no reason why any offense should be stopped by that.
If we play a 4 man rush, with man to man, zone mixed in whenever, at least there's a chance that we'll cop a turnover out of it.
With the way the D has been hit, everyone knows it's not going to be a world-beater, but it doesn't have to be. All it has to do is create an occasional turnover, and stop someone now and then, and the O will do it for us.

That's why the 3 man rush from zone is so frustrating, it leaves us no chance of winning.
It looked like  
Mister O : 12/13/2011 3:37 pm : link
the cowboys' game plan in the fourth quarter was simply to pick on aaron ross. and they did so with great success.
the reason romo overthrew  
snablats : 12/13/2011 3:38 pm : link
was because we blitzed

or we can let him sit back there for 5 full seconds, as he had on that long TD pass, and find someone...and if he didnt have 5 seconds, he would not have thrown that TD pass

today's nfl is about pressure - why fewell refuses to do it is mindboggling...clearly what he is doing isnt working, yet he continues to do it
yes it is robbie  
nygiants16 : 12/13/2011 3:38 pm : link
you know why spags blitzes worked?

becuase he had a hall fame defensive end and two very good young defensive ends...osi was a beast that year off the edge and tuck couldnt be blocked on the inside and guess what that frees up linebackers to rush the passer...

now fast forward to this year we have jpp and then we have tuck who can barely move...so guess what that leaves lineman free to block the blitzers they dont have to worry about doubling guys
I think a year  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 12/13/2011 3:38 pm : link
from now, we'll be singing Jacquian Williams' praises. It's amazing they have to count on him so much given his limited experience both in college and the pros. He's an athlete and I think he wants it.

I had higher hopes for Greg Jones, but he hasn't demonstrated he can do it. I don't know why, but I just have a good feeling about Paysinger (athlete). I'm just not sure Herzlich is athletic enough for a 4-3 linebacker. We'll have to see.
Fatman  
BT4554 : 12/13/2011 3:39 pm : link
said it perfectly. We have blitzed with some frequency and have gotten beat. We have also played a mix of man and zone coverage and have got beat with both. I think some of our coverage problems are stemming from our lack of pass rush upfront. The secondary can't cover forever. How many seconds is it expected for a DB to cover a receiver? On the long pass Amukumara gave up he was in coverage for almost 5 seconds before the ball was thrown. Tom Coughlin even said on the Amukumara play Romo had way to much time back in the pocket. On some plays when our pass rush doesn't get home the quarterback is never hurried and has all day to survey the field. I think the Cowboys simply failed to execute on the Austin pass. I'd have to rewatch it but I don't remember Romo looking particularly hurried on that play, nor do I remember his throw being effective by our pass rush/ blitz
Hmmm...  
rnargi : 12/13/2011 3:39 pm : link
Quote:
Canty, Boley, Rolle, Kiwanuka, and Webster are on the field along with JPP. Do all these veterans just stink all of a sudden?


No, they're still good...you just attack the other 6 who aren't.
Blitzing this year has not been very effective  
cnuke : 12/13/2011 3:39 pm : link
I'm not sure if it's been because it isn't well disguised, like on the 3rd and 5, or if they are poorly designed, or if our blitzers aren't very good. But, it seems like our blitzers rarely get home.
I wonder  
Jon in NYC : 12/13/2011 3:39 pm : link
if Herzlich starts over Blackburn if he's healthy.
I don't  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 12/13/2011 3:41 pm : link
think we blitz a lot. We blitz some. For instance there was on blitz up the middle by Blackburn who got to Romo right away, but Webster was called for interference on the play.
cnuke its because the offensive line doesnt have to double anyone  
nygiants16 : 12/13/2011 3:41 pm : link
the reason spags blitzs worked was because he had THREE GREAT DEFENSIVE ENDS who took double teams and freed up rushing lanes for the linebackers...

this year we dont have that so lineman are free to pick up blitzers
that's a  
JeHatke : 12/13/2011 3:41 pm : link
misconception about the Patriots defense. they're the quintessential bend-don't-break defense. they give up a ton of yards, but they're middle of the pack in points against.

i would kill for middle of the pack in points against.

Giants have allowed 349 points, Patriots have allowed 273.

give us their defense and we're 9-4 right now or better.

we are getting torched routinely. and this is not a recent thing, either. we let Rex Grossman and Tarvaris Jackson do this to us as well.
leading the NFL in sacks in the first half  
JerseyJoe : 12/13/2011 3:41 pm : link
and then the patented disappearing act in the second half. Look at all these talented teams who won Super Bowls when they got a legitimate DC in their 1st or 2nd year with the team. Saints with Gregg Williams,Pittsburgh with Dick LeBeau,Giants with Spagnuolo,Packers with Dom Capers the list goes on.
Jersey  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 12/13/2011 3:42 pm : link
Dom Capers' defense is ranked below ours right now.
Continue  
Jon in NYC : 12/13/2011 3:42 pm : link
with the list then.
jersey you realized spagnuolo had 3 incredible defensive ends  
nygiants16 : 12/13/2011 3:43 pm : link
its easy to dial up a blitz when you have 3 guys who can beat their man almost every time...the reason his defense worked was because he had 3 guys who took on double teams..

why is it that his defense doesnt work in stl?
nygiants  
robbieballs2003 : 12/13/2011 3:45 pm : link
So the Jets can free up guys because their DL is so impressive? Does having guys like Tuck and Strahan help? Yes but it doesn't mean it is impossible without those guys. I guess I don't know how to get my kids running free at a QB on my defense because I don't have great lineman. Your point doesn't make sense considering that very few teams in history have had the talent that our DL had so designing blitzers to come free must be an extremely rare feat.
Blackburn knows  
Arcanum : 12/13/2011 3:46 pm : link
The system so he has that in his favor. I honestly feel like the Giants may have to consider bringing in Bullock, I know it's only 3 games left but they need bodies and he knows the system.
the jets have a good pass rush?  
nygiants16 : 12/13/2011 3:47 pm : link
you realize when the jets get to teh passer its because they blitz EVERYONE and leave their corners on islands...

teh giants CANT blitz because they cant leave their corners one on one!

its very hard to blitz when your corners cant cover anyone and the reason the jets get to the qb is because they send everyone but the kitchen sink...notice the jets defense has been gashed this year
It's not just the other night  
Go Terps : 12/13/2011 3:47 pm : link
Look around the league. I watch the Pats a lot...they blitz plenty and they NEVER get home. Same thing with the Jets...never get home.

Being ultra aggressive sounds sexy and effective, but against a smart QB it's a great way to get destroyed. I mean come on who among us wasn't getting a hardon when Eli would audible after spotting the Dallas blitz before the snap?
eric that wasnt the point  
JerseyJoe : 12/13/2011 3:48 pm : link
their d was very good last year. if our d was playing anything like they were last year we'd probably be 10-3 right now or better
if spagnuolo is this great defensive coordinator  
nygiants16 : 12/13/2011 3:48 pm : link
why doesnt his defense work in st louis? answer that please
joe are you slow?  
nygiants16 : 12/13/2011 3:49 pm : link
the reason their defense was good last year was because they werent missing half their defense...

ever think he is being conservative because half the starters are hurt?
Further,  
Go Terps : 12/13/2011 3:49 pm : link
if the linebackers are weak then why do we want them blitzing?

Williams has actually done a pretty good job on opposing tight ends. I'm not sure why we'd want to take him out of that role.

nygiants16 - give it a rest, already  
snablats : 12/13/2011 3:49 pm : link
its not the talent, its the scheme...spags had players coming from every angle, including corners and safeties...fewell has no imagination and no clue how to scheme blitzes

id rather give up 3 80yd td passes than 3 80yd drives for TDs...his bend-but-dont-break aint workin, and is the wrong use of personnel for this team

but ive been saying that since august...too bad none of you agreed then
16  
Jon in NYC : 12/13/2011 3:49 pm : link
the answer to your question is yes.
Because he has 9 CB's on IR..  
arcarsenal : 12/13/2011 3:50 pm : link
...along with 3 defensive lineman.

You have to withstand injuries to a degree but that's just an impossible situation.
and i still dont  
nygiants16 : 12/13/2011 3:50 pm : link
was teh defense good last year?
Jersey  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 12/13/2011 3:50 pm : link
sure, but it's not just the coaching. I'm not a big fan of Fewell, but we've been buying into this "blitz more and play man more" philosophy. Giants haven't demonstrated they can do that either.

As said above...we have one DE who is playing well. The LBs - because of injury and experience - have been a mess. We have had injury issues at CB all year.
giantssweet16  
JerseyJoe : 12/13/2011 3:50 pm : link
talent difference is huge
Jehatke ( sorry for the misspell)  
Arcanum : 12/13/2011 3:51 pm : link
The Giants have played a harder schedule then the Pats so you can't say that.
to say this is all on fewell is stupid  
nygiants16 : 12/13/2011 3:51 pm : link
its hard to dial up a blitz when you cant trust your secondary to cover or you just dont have the personel to do it...

this defense is not talented at the moment
We did  
Delgursh : 12/13/2011 3:52 pm : link
look more aggressive on D last year, didnt we?

Last year I feel like I remember seeing more blitzes than this year (of course). Like everyone says, must be personnel. Its not like he never was aggrssive. Im not imagining that, am I? ha
jersey thats my point  
nygiants16 : 12/13/2011 3:52 pm : link
and guess what this defense right now doesnt have talent
injuries play a role no doubt  
JerseyJoe : 12/13/2011 3:52 pm : link
but lets not overstate that either. this team has enough out there to not be flat out hemorrhaging points the way they have.
Eric, FMiC, GT  
GMANinDC : 12/13/2011 3:54 pm : link
You guys make good points. The blitizng would be alot more effective if TT was not hurt and you had Ross and Rolle blizting..That's where it was very effective..Losing TT hurts alot in the blitz plan.

Also the fact that, Tuck is inuured (boy, I am tired of hearing from him how injured he is), Ois is hurt and out and that leaves JPP and Tolly. The pressure is just not getting there..Even the run stopping has been spotty. At one point, Grant had to call the defensive signals becuase Boley was out..

People can bitch all they want about the lack of blizting, but i'd rather take Fewells' approach of limiting the blitz and playing conseravative and hopefully get a turnover then sending a LB or CB and having the WR and TE's have a field day..

It's a pick your poison decision, considering the personnel..Th confusion part of who should be where is the troubling thing..This is week 14 and those problems should have been cleared in week 2..
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