3rd and 5...2:20 Left in the Game...Perry Fewell Has...

You are putting words in my mouth. Stick to the argument. I never compared Fewell and Spags. You did. I never said the Jets have a good pass rush. I said they are able to get guys coming free.

I fnt have all day to explain defense to you. A good pass rush doesn't have to equate to sacks. Designing a blitz that is easily picked up kills your secondary even if you have a bunch of Bevis' out there. Getting a guy COOng free will force the QB into a quicker decision and leads to more mistakes.


My point that you twisted was very simple. He sucks at designing blitzes. The OL never has to adjust. We don't have the talent on our second levels to expect them to beat a guy. That is why the DC needs to figure that out.

for anything on just on just one play.

Problem I have with our blitzes is they seem to rarely get there.

Has anyone seen a corner/safety blitz from around the corner?

the following players have missed time/on ir/been playing injured/rookies who had no offseason

goff
thomas
witherspoon
johnson
tryon
herzlich
jacquain
paysinger
jones
amukamara
osi
tuck
austin
phillips
boley


ffs we're on our 4th mlb of the year, a guy who was chilling at home 2 weeks ago

question is false equivalence. what he does with their personnel does not necessarily dictate what he'd be capable of with our personnel.

right now, it'd be hard to imagine Spags doing any worse with what we've got. we're #27 in the league in team defense. we've allowed the 6th most points in the entire league and we've played games against Rex Grossman, Tarvaris Jackson, Matt Moore, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Kevin Kolb, Vince Young and Alex Smith.

there is something drastically wrong, here.

this d even with the injuries has above average talent. if the DC was doing even an average job we should be roughly middle of the pack in pts allowed (maybe slighly worse due to stenght of schedule) but nowhere near as bad as we have been

Have the most injuries in the league and the hardest schedule, being 7 and 6 is a damn blessing.

they have enough out there? tell me if this is enough

1 defensive end and 1 defensive end that cant move

2 dt that although are good at stuffing the run they are not pass rushers...canty and joseph have played well

1 lb and then a bunch of no name rookies..one bright spot has been williams but he still makes mistakes

1 corner in webster, 1 rookie who is still coming back from a broken foot and one corner who cant cover anything 1 on 1

you have two safeties who are good when playing their natural position but 1 safety has to play corner teh otehr who is slow has to play deep and another safety who has played good but is basiclaly playing deep by himself

does that sound like a lot of talent?

we have the worst LBs in the NFL. It's reached comedic status at this point.

People either think it's the injuries or Fewell.

Why can't it be both? Maybe Fewell is an average DC running a below average defense because of the limitations the injuries are creating with what he can and cannot effectively do.

the giants are playing prevent defense for the entire game - and its not working

the way to protect a supposed weak secondary is with a fierce pass rush - as parcells did with the giants in the 1980s...fewell is doing the opposite and it hasnt worked

prince had his man covered for at least 3.5 seconds...it was the last 1.5 seconds where his man got open...you cant cover forever...same thing happened on GBs second TD from inside the 10 (the one where the WR almost stepped on the backline of the endzone) - he was covered for 4 seconds (in an 8 man zone), then got free

Austin lost it in the lights. Watching the game again last night, you can see him looking in the air and complaining. If he sees the ball, he adjusts, and the game is over.

Romo was not rushed. How could he have been? Austin got a relatively clean break off the line. Ross totally missed the press, and Austin ran right by him.

On a blitz like that, the defense has to have someone come free and pressure the QB immediately. Romo knows its coming, and has too many options to go with the ball.

So, in my opinion, two bad things: Ross' coverage and the fact that even bringing a house blitz, no one came free. We're just lucky that Jerrah's house is built the way it is.

The Giants do not have "the most injuries in the league". Stop stating opinions as fact.

It's not 100% on him and certainly injuries play an important part.

But regardless of what scheme they run, it is the coach's job to effectively communicate to his players and put them in the best position to succeed. I think it is silly to argue man to man versus zone at this point... however I think there is ample evidence to suggest there is a disconnect between PF and his players.

Busted coverage, players looking confused, inability to stop drives, players playing worse than they have previously... these are signs of a broken system and for that I look squarely at the coach.

PF may be playing with less than full deck this year but he has not shown any ability to rise above it and get the most out of the players who are available to him (as Spags did in 2007).

name them ,their draft position and level of play under Spagnuolo if applicable. THEN compare that list to the rest of the D's in the NFL.

Surprise surprise...not NEARLY as bad as you think

because to compare to the jets is stupid because they have a shut down corner and a very good corner on the other side...it gives ryan the freedom to send everyone..

i agree that when he does call a blitz it doesnt come home but was his defense good last year? it seems so...the difference between this year and last is the injuries

again agree to disagree i blame the injuries more than anything this year

poor blitz designs and the confusion that we often see from players on the field. Complaints about his "gameplans" and "playcalling" are ridiculous. He's tried EVERYTHING... man, zone, combo man and zone. There simply aren't enough dependable players in the back 7 to cover if the pass rush doesn't get the job done.

it's because that conclusion doesn't lend itself to much debate. wouldn't be interesting if we all just said:

"yep, i agree."

I am glad we have a young core of LB's on the roster. I really feel Williams, Herzlich, Paysinger and even Jones will be either really good or serviceable they just need time. These guys were drafted in later rounds or were undrafted for a reason they need be taught and brought along. In our case they have been thrown into the fire and have flashed some. Are they getting killed on some plays? Yeah but what rookie in the history of the league hasn't? I see a bright future with these guys.

Quote:

id rather give up 3 80yd td passes than 3 80yd drives for TDs

I couldn't possibly disagree with this more. The more plays it takes for the opposition to score the more likely they are to make a mistake.

The Giants are tied for 7th in the NFL in turnovers forced, and are 8th in sacks (remarkable considering the injuries to Tuck and Osi).

At some point we're talking about blood from a stone. We're nearing it now with the personnel on defense, particularly when it takes an LT-type effort from a second year player to make any sort of defensive impact on the whole.

This team, this year, is going as far as Eli takes it. Just like Green Bay is with Rodgers.

That's the league today, for better or (IMO) worse.

Much easier said than done. A lot of our pressure isn't getting home quick enough on blitzes. You're risking giving up big TD plays by doing that.. which is exactly what would have happened on that Dallas 3rd down play if not for Romo overthrowing Austin.

that Spags had during 2007..A healthy Strahan Osi, Tuck, Cofield and Robbins..

very well said

So we should just take extreme and inaccurate stances for the sake of debate? Sure.. makes sense.

Osi (in his prime)
Tuck (healthy)
Cofield (I think it was him)
Strahan

vs.

JPP
Joseph
Canty
Tuck (banged up)

I don't think the drop off in the pass rush can be blamed on Fewell.

a 3rd and 5 and going cover 0 with Ross in the slot just is not a smart play. Injuries and inexperience is forcing Ross to play the slot corner but he does not have the quickness/recovery speed for it. Im assuming he is in the slot because its too complicated for Prince to pick up right now so Prince is learning the outside and focusing on that.

With it being only 5 yds to the first down the CB has to respect the short route as well as the deeper route. If you go single high then at least the CB knows he has more help so he can go for a stronger jam and then trail the WR. if its 3rd and 10+ you can bring the cover 0 blitz where the CB knows his main focus is taking away the deep route and if the receiver makes an underneath catch he has a chance to make the tackle before the first down.

I know a lot of people are just throwing out the terms man and zone but thats way too general. Even when we are playing man sometimes the type of man defense that it is doesn't make much sense with the down/distance. We do have defenders that need help in man especially in the middle of the field like with Ross in the slot or our LBs on athletic TEs. Use a safety to help those guys and keep one up top. Our outside corners have not been getting beat on vertical routes in man but they need safety help on deep posts etc over the middle. the long play on Prince was another example of that.

I will say this...Fewell hasn't inspired on during his media Q&As on Thursday. In a game where Frank Gore was hurt coming into the game, Fewell said he was surprised the 49ers passed more. A week or two ago, he seemed at a loss (at least publicly) in saying what the problems are.

Go look at our defensive backfield during the 2007 playoff run... it was pretty suspect. Yet the defense dazzled.

romo overthrew BECAUSE OF THE BLITZ...fewell's problem is that he cant design blitzes...spags, jim johnson, buddy ryan - those guys know/knew how to get a blitz home...fewell doesnt have a clue

go terps - fewell has been doing what you want (80yd TD drives), and it isnt working...so you need to do something else

Quote:

Q: What’s been going on with the defense the last two weeks? A: I thought Monday we just didn’t play well. We were outplayed, outhustled. They’ve played with more effort, more energy. We got outcoached. We just didn’t play well last week. So for whatever reason, I can’t explain that, I don’t think any of those guys can explain that either. We prepared well. We didn’t perform well – bottom line.

Quote:

Q: If all of your defensive linemen are being double-teamed how do you beat a max protection? A: Sometimes you have to will yourself to win. You can’t always scheme an opportunity for them to come free. Sometimes you do, sometimes you don’t. Sometimes you just have to beat a double team. I’ve seen that many times. Some of our guys are able to beat double teams and we just haven’t been doing tha

I don't think you can say Romo overthrew because of the blitz. He wasn't pressured on the play. You're changing reality to fit your argument.

"extreme and inaccurate stances for the sake of debate"

pretty sure you just defined every message board on the web.

on IR for the Rams?? Everything i've seen shows 5 cbs and 1 safety.

which is about the same as the giants.

But it is pretty simple to understand. If everybody matches up man for man (I'm making this very very simple) then you have one guy that will take care of the QB. That is without even taking into consideration overloading a side to get a guy coming free. I don't know why this is so hard to understand. Let's take a very simple play that doesn't always work but it gets the point across. Second two guys off the edge. You are putting the OT in a tough spot. If there is no back there then it is a free run at the QB. I'm not even getting into DL stunts, bring guys from the secondary, etc.

That was a throw Romo probably makes 9 out of 10 times. We got extremely lucky and dodged a huge bullet there.. the pressure was not overwhelming at all.

that should be an easy catch/throw for a NFL QB.......

If I'm not mistaken, it was in the playoff game against Dallas during the SB run that Ross made a big tackle of Marion Barber despite having a dislocated or separated shoulder. I remember thinking then that Ross was really endearing himself to Giants fans. Quite a contrast with this performance in Dallas.

it'll be even more interesting too compare the spags yrs vs the non spags yrs. wonder what the coaching apologists will come with then if the D magically improves again with mostly the same personell

think Spagnuolo is far more likely to end up in Philadelphia than with the Giants if he is fired.

and someone mentioned it above...

I haven't seen a blitzer come free at all this year...at least I can't remember it. You literally see it in every NFL game you watch.

Every sack we've gotten is either from a DT/DE or if it's from another player, due to coverage.

the ball was out of Romo's hand way before the blitzer got anywhere near him.

just a bad throw or a bad route. in either case, our season should be over today. thankfully there's a team in our division that's even more inept than we are. and even more thankfully, we play them again.

Hopefully not.. but it makes too much sense.

The S get repeatedly bashed on this site, but Philips, by most accounts from media people watching the games, gets pretty good praise for the season he was having. Rolle, for the most part was not playing S for more than half the year - he was playing slot CB.

Fewell is playing his safeties so deep so they don't give up a big play. By doing that, they also don't make any plays. i continue to think he is misusing Webster - he can cover - but clearly not in zone. Utilize him in bump and run more than zone

Ross - I throw my hands up - he is complete feast or famine. He has zero middle ground. For a guy given a huge chance to play for a big contract, he hasn't capitalized

There are 2 LB who can run and be assets in Boley & Williams. There are injuries to DE - let Kiwi rush the passer, and bring in the nickel back.

Having any DL drop off of rushing the passer into coverage is useless

Yes there are injuries, but there is no way that this D should be this bad

Has to dial up a blitz in that spot on 3rd and 5. If Dallas converts a 1st down, which is likely considering how our pass defense has been carved up in zone, then the game is probably over. If Romo beats the blitz the game is over as well, but I'd much rather lose being aggressive and applying pressure than dropping a bunch of guys and hoping the opposing offense makes a mistake.

Well please show me a team with more injuries.

let's see how the season ends.

The Giants just gave up 49, 38, and 34 points.

If that continues, it would be hard to see Fewell coming back.

It's amazing we went 1-2, and almost 2-1.

Also, the Giants would be smart to realize TC's age, and Spag's connection to this organization, also realzing Spag's connection w/ Reid.

is all 3 CB's tried to play Cov. 0 up in the WR's face and then didn't lay a hand on them. It doesn't work. If they're being taught that then they're set up to fail and if they're being taught otherwise it isn't sinking in. There isn't a CB in the NFL that is going to be successful playing up in man coverage giving a free release, opening up and chasing.

since we arent aggressive going out to get coaches for the most part. but one can hope...the giants do still like spags and maybe more aggressive going after a guy who they know and like

I great pass rush will make a secondary better..The secondary was not as suspect as you think..I would take that secondary over what we have right now..Not including the injury to TT of course..

The Rams have NINE corners on IR. They also have 3 defensive lineman on IR. And that's just their defense. Bradford has been banged up all year and missed some time, SJax has also missed time.

It's not always about numbers, either. I'm sure the Colts would rather have 10 players on IR than just Peyton Manning. Certain positions carry far more magnitude than others.

to recover - a guy with 4.35 speed? He's the fastest DB they have. Unless he's got bad hammies, he should have plenty of make up speed. I'm at a loss at to why he was 5 yds behind Austin on that play; whiffed on the jam?

I'm really at a loss as to how week after week experienced DBs are confused in coverage. It has to be the coaching.

Cannot understand why Joseph, Canty and the other DTs are having trouble with the inside runs - those guys are not below average DTs or are they.

And yes the blitz designs are putrid - every one comes up the middle of the guard gap - no corner, no safety.