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Cosell on the Evolution of the WR Position + Draft Thoughts

jlukes : 4/9/2012 7:05 pm
Quote:
A big wide receiver who I believe can align on the outside and run the complete route tree is LSU’s Rueben Randle (6-3, 210). The more games I watch, the more I like Randle. He is smooth and athletic, with better acceleration off the ball than either Jeffery or Sanu. In some ways, he reminds me of the New York Giants’ Hakeem Nicks, who was not drafted until the 29th pick in the first round in 2009. Nicks was the fifth wide receiver selected that year (after Darrius Heyward-Bey, Michael Crabtree, Jeremy Maclin and Percy Harvin), but he’s clearly been the most productive of the bunch. Where Nicks has been very effective — and I project Randle playing a similar role — is at “x iso”, the single receiver to one side of the formation. When you’re aligned at “x,” you must be able to win versus man coverage.


He compares Jeffery to Colston. Won't run all the routes, will struggle getting off the line some, but will be effective out of the slot with a clean release and the ability to run up the seem

Says Sanu is more of a slot receiver.
His main point is that Welker and Colston can't line-up outside  
jlukes : 4/9/2012 7:07 pm : link
the numbers and win vs. man coverage, but they thrive in the role they are put in.
forgot to link  
jlukes : 4/9/2012 7:07 pm : link
.
http://nflfilms.nfl.com/2012/04/09/cosell-talks-the-wide-receiver-transformation/ - ( New Window )
I didn't know much about Randle  
Jay on the Island : 4/9/2012 7:16 pm : link
therefore I did not want him to be our 1st round pick. However over the past week I have watched alot of highlights of him and I have to say I like him a lot more than Jeffery, Hill, Wright. I would not be surprised if he turned out to be better than Floyd either.
I'd say in terms of the way they catch the ball  
Neverend : 4/9/2012 7:17 pm : link
and get yards after the catch, Sanu and Jeffery are more comparable to Nicks

In terms of terms of savvy/route running, Randle is very comparable

All 3 aren't as good as Nicks obviously
Rueben Randle...  
2ndroundKO : 4/9/2012 8:03 pm : link
is the one WR I would love for the Giants to draft. Smooth, deceptive speed and easily gets behind defenders, smart, great hands, runs good routes, pro ready and hasn't hit his ceiling. I'm a fan of Kendall Wright as well. Jeffrey is too risky, Stephen Hill is a workout warrior and I see no reason to draft Sanu within the first two, maybe even three rounds. I don't know if Randle will still be there at 32 but if he's the BPA when the Gmen are on the clock, I'd love for them to pull the trigger.
I have recently fallen in love with Randle  
kelsto811 : 4/9/2012 8:13 pm : link
Who knows though I like Sanu too
I love the Nicks comparison...obviously it is not a perfect comparison  
BSIMatt : 4/9/2012 8:13 pm : link
But there are a lot of similarities....both have a smooth style, Randle evolved as a route runner, is very strong going after the ball and is a creative runner for a bigger WR. He's a real humble yet confident player in the style of Hakeem...and a hard worker. They are both very good at changing directions without losing speed.
Randle showing some agilty after the catch - ( New Window )
Also both had to suffer through sub par qb play  
BSIMatt : 4/9/2012 8:16 pm : link
I think Randle and Nicks would have been higher profile players leading up to the draft had they been paired with better quarterbacks during their careers.
BSIMatt  
jlukes : 4/9/2012 8:17 pm : link
absolutely
BSIMatt...  
2ndroundKO : 4/9/2012 8:19 pm : link
Completely agree. I'm baffled at all the other WR's being compared to Nicks because Randle is the only one who has done something on the field that make me think of Hakeem. No, I don't think he's in that stratosphere but what you describe (his demeaner, smooth route running and determination after the catch) are the qualities that remind of someone capable of making an impact his rookie year like Nicks did.
Nicks has far better hands than Randle  
chris r : 4/9/2012 8:48 pm : link
that's the big difference.
I'd love to know how the Giants rate  
CT Charlie : 4/9/2012 8:49 pm : link
hands, route running, 40 speed, blocking, red zone value, size, character... What's the balance between these qualities?
chris r...  
2ndroundKO : 4/9/2012 8:51 pm : link
Nicks has far better (and bigger) hands than 90% of the NFL. Randle has excellent hands.Catches with his body too often but also uses his size well when doing so.
Watch the clips  
JerseyJoe : 4/9/2012 8:53 pm : link
Of Jeffery's sophomore year and then compare
His combine numbers. Jeffery is the more special talent by quite a bit.
CT Charlie  
DelBlue91 : 4/9/2012 8:54 pm : link
I don't think the Giants look so much at 40 time, as they do the 3 cone drills and all the shuttles they run. There was a thread on here earlier this week, that highlighted the differences in players 40 times, and their 3 cone drills. A player with a much quicker 3 cone drill then 40, gets in and out of breaks, and gains separation off the line faster then a player with matching 40/3 cone drill times.
JerseyJoe - but does he FIT the offense the Giants runs  
jlukes : 4/9/2012 8:55 pm : link
Scouts say he doesn't have what it takes to be the 'x' (beat man coverage on the outside. Very similar to Marcus Colston in that he would thrive in a system where he could line up off of the LOS to get a clean release and run down the seem.

Jersey Joe...  
2ndroundKO : 4/9/2012 9:00 pm : link
I tend to agree with you. I do think Jeffery is more talented than Randle. But I also believe Randle is more of a sure thing. Too many x-factors with Jeffery and I'm always wary of that with WRs.
Disagree Luke's  
JerseyJoe : 4/9/2012 9:02 pm : link
A lot of the Criticism came from watching his tape from
This year where he was nursing an injury and playing at a higher than optimal weight. Watch his sophomore clips plenty of explosion and doesn't lose too much in and out of his brakes for a bigger receiver. His short shuttle and 40 are better than Randle too indicating better acceleration agility and all around explosion than Randle too.

Jeffery was more dominant his soph season than Randle was his JUNIOR Season. In potentially a worse offense.
KO yes there are questions  
JerseyJoe : 4/9/2012 9:04 pm : link
But the giants were intrigued enough by the talent that they brought him
On for a private Interview. If he checks out and
I trust our evaluators then we should be extremely excited if he is our pick.
Meh  
Dunedin81 : 4/9/2012 9:04 pm : link
Jeffrey is pretty athletic and explosive, even if the straight-ahead speed isn't mind-blowing. Guys with elite body control and good physical gifts make themselves a role in an offense, Manningham did and he wasn't as talented as Jeffrey is and had at least as many concerns about what was going on upstairs.

Randle has question marks too. He has a lot going for him, but he is still likely to have an adjustment period going from a run-happy attack with a shitty QB to an offense where passing is central.
Jersey...  
2ndroundKO : 4/9/2012 9:08 pm : link
Agreed. I trust the front office and they did bring him in, probably to take a closer look at those x-factors. They were also at Randle's pro day, I believe. I remember reading something about them being impressed but can't seem to find it anywhere. Maybe I was dreaming--or someone else on this site might recall. Either way, with Reese and Coughlin at the helm, we'll pick the right WR.
Not much  
OC : 4/9/2012 9:50 pm : link
To go on with Randle. Their passing game was horrible.
2roundKO  
chris r : 4/9/2012 9:54 pm : link
I like Randle but being a body catcher negates some of size advantage.

I don't think Nicks is good comparison because one of Nicks most distinguished traits his his hands, which are not a distinctively positive feature for RAndle.
Some reports have questioned  
bob in tx : 4/9/2012 10:00 pm : link
Randle's ability to get separation. If that opinion comes from watching film then they are confusing a lack of separation with a basic principle of all LSU WRs:they are told to give a run block look first and always.He is excellent on the deep pass( and it is Mario's role/ability to get deep that the Giants need to replace) and has very strong hands. If Reese goes WR then I want Randle.
For the receiving options who might make 32  
JerseyJoe : 4/9/2012 10:01 pm : link
1a. Wright
1b. Fleener
1c. Jeffery (if the private interview addressed concerns well)
4. Martin

Too much bust potential for Randle and Hill. And more development time to boot.
I like  
BBurns : 4/9/2012 10:02 pm : link
Sanu he seems to be able to do
everything and is tough as nails .
2nd would be Randle ....IMO
Randle averaged 19,3 yds  
bob in tx : 4/9/2012 10:06 pm : link
per catch this year with poor QBs in a run dominated offense.And,he played in the SEC. Anyone suggesting he has a high bust factor has an agenda to merely boost his own favorite WR.Please, go ahead and repeat the "interview" factor again.
What I like most about Randle  
chris r : 4/9/2012 10:09 pm : link
is that he seems really agile for a guy his size. Does look like your typical big, straight line, slow to get moving receiver.
Mmm hmmm that's why I list  
JerseyJoe : 4/9/2012 10:09 pm : link
Two other Wr as top options as well. Analysis fail.
You don't have to  
bob in tx : 4/9/2012 10:14 pm : link
pollute this thread with the same things you have said on the ones you start.You've made it clear that you like Jeffrey--fine. But don't start in with garbage about Randle being a high risk for being a bust. No credible report has suggested that but you throw that in simply to boost the player you like. That's childish.
does = doesn't  
chris r : 4/9/2012 10:22 pm : link
bizarro world
Once again blind and hasty judgement  
JerseyJoe : 4/9/2012 10:22 pm : link
I go by what i see combined with multiple scouting reports and lastly the combine numbers. Boylehart for another has him Listed as a round 4 value. other scouts have alluded to his long strides and lack of explosiveness as evidenced by his short shuttle times. But anyways keep your blind judgement spewing out.
The enema  
brian : 4/9/2012 10:24 pm : link
Of my enema
Is my friend
Joe--is amazes me that  
bob in tx : 4/9/2012 10:25 pm : link
when I read the thread about drafting Mike Adams at #32, you had a paragraph that is identical to one you added in the "Martin, Jeffrey or Adams" thread. Identical.Word for word. Talking about spewing the same garbage. Watch, I'll bump both for you so they will be on page 1.
Randle's hand are decent size...  
Dunedin81 : 4/9/2012 10:26 pm : link
(bigger than Hill's, considerably smaller than Jeffrey's) but his vert was actually the lowest of the major prospects at the position, 31", which negates some of his height advantage. Hill had a 39.5" jump and Sanu and Jeffrey were both in the 36" range (Jeffrey at his pro day, so factor that in). Randle's 3-cone wasn't spectacular at 6.99 (Hill at 6.88, Sanu at 6.93, Jeffrey hasn't run one to my knowledge). Jeffrey has a reputation as a hand catcher, Randle a little less so.

I'm fine with Randle as the pick, but it isn't just ignorance to prefer other prospects to him.
Preferring one prospect from another is one thing...  
Four Aces : 4/9/2012 10:36 pm : link
but where's the bust factor on Randle? His combine numbers and production are solid.
Relatively untested...  
Dunedin81 : 4/9/2012 10:42 pm : link
in a pro-style offense, debatable (on tape he looks plenty fast - at the Combine he did not, though of course he improved at his pro day) deep speed and a low vert suggesting that he might not be able to use his size to his advantage, there is SOME bust factor. Not as large as, say, Hill's or Jeffrey's, though for different reasons.
Dunedin  
Ira : 4/9/2012 10:58 pm : link
Jeffery ran the 3 Cone at 6.71 at his pro day.
Link - ( New Window )
Okay cool, thanks...  
Dunedin81 : 4/9/2012 11:03 pm : link
hadn't seen that.
19.3 yards per catch by Randle is very impressive  
Ira : 4/9/2012 11:03 pm : link
.
Randle  
Phil in LA : 4/9/2012 11:07 pm : link
Would be my WR pick at 32. Great feet.
I'm seeing 17.3 for Randle...  
Dunedin81 : 4/9/2012 11:20 pm : link
impressive, but compare it to Hill's obscene 29.3 (GT's offense is run-heavy on steroids but there is some analogy to be drawn there). And Wright's 15.4 and Jeffrey's 15.6 (17.2 during his soph campaign) are very impressive too. A glut of real quality receivers in the 20-45 range, good cases can be made for each fo them.
Jeffrey soph season is better than almost any WRs  
JerseyJoe : 4/9/2012 11:34 pm : link
Top season in this draft and his pro day numbers basically are superior to randles across the board. His hands and catching radius are obscene and his ball skills are fAr superior to Reuben's
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