through some of my old tapes from the late 1980s, the Inside the NFL highlight shows with Len and Nick. And on each show, there were several highlights of hard hits to the head, either with a helmet or forearm, etc. Each time I saw it, you realize that a hit just like that today would result in a penalty/fine/ and/or suspension. Back then, most of the time it wasn't called at all.
I question whether the NFL will survive. I see a ton of lawsuits coming down the road as more and more info comes out regarding the danger of playing and continually getting blows to the head.
to some military suicides as well. Only one or a few traumatic events can cause the same kind of scarring if the level of violence to the brain is severe enough, apparently. Link - ( New Window )
guys making the hit hits having a greater impact, maybe?
There's been the argument for awhile that the safety improvements (helmets, pads, etc) have encouraged "harder" hits (legal or otherwise doesn't really matter in this context, I assume), which may be causing greater damage than in the past when defenders had to be careful to not hurt themselves on these hits.
Kurt Cobain must have played a lot of backyard football.
RIP Jr., sad... but sometimes people are just crazy. It's a long fast drop from the top, there was a reason he stayed in the league so long, I'm sure it had nothing to do with his "love" of the game.
I'm sure that plays a role. Barring some kind of technological breakthrough in helmet design, I don't see how football as we know it survives in the long run. It's not going away any time soon, but with each year that passes fewer and fewer people will allow their sons to play high school football, leading to fewer playing college football, finally leading to a decline in talent in the NFL. Seems inevitable at this point.
my uninformed guess is that former players (and famous people, and anyone with access) are taking a lot more prescription pills for their pains and depressions, etc.
While I think prescription drugs can do a lot of good, the cocktails that people will access are taking, are incredibly dangerous.
I have no idea if Seau had been taking pills, but he wouldn't be the first former athlete with a lot of recurring pain from his playing days to do so.
the NFL and NFLPA are working to reach out to all ex-players to assess their condition and offer some assistance to those in need of it. This is horrific.
11:33 AM PDT -- Sources tell us ... Seau died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the chest.
Back in 2011, former NFL star Dave Duerson shot himself in the chest ... and explained in his suicide note that he wanted his brain donated to a research center because he believed the blows he took to the head during his football career caused him to become mentally impaired.
I think it is definetly an issue. Thing is that as a NFL player, especially linemen, you are getting big head shots 60+ times a game...plus practice, college and high school.
Two brothers in my building are fabulous multi-sport athletes. The older one is a junior. He had two football concussions, and is now barred from contact sports for the rest of his time in HS. He is becoming a tennis player.
up through high school - or even the deaths and catastrophic injuries tied directly to football at this point isnt enough to reduce participation in football -- I cant see this having an effect since he is at such an elite level that it would not seem relevant to Mom and Dad signing up their youngster.
I doubt my son would have been a football player anyway
ex-players shooting themselves in the chest because their brains still function well enough to know it's fucked up, but not well enough to stop them from doing it.
This is a huge fucking deal. Here's hoping that in his tragic death Seau becomes the poster boy for reforms that exceed the lip service the issue is being given now by the NFL and the NFLPA.
I love football, loved playing it, love watching it but it is sad to see the damage it can cause. Whether or not Seau's death relates to football through CTE, it definitely is another blaring signal about the physical toll the sport takes.
All that said, I still think allowing a youngster to play football is a good idea. What this should do though is make anyone with kids who play that much more aware of concussions. I definitely got dinged when I was younger, and probably should not have gone back out there when I did. Everyone has to be more vigilant.
Far from it - they've had guys die in a car wreck, a plane crash, getting hit by lightning, drug overdose, heart attacks and complications from diabetes. Just a horrible coincidence that they all played for the same team.
If Seau's brain is studied and found to have the same issues as Duerson's, then yeah I'd say Duerson's death should be a watershed event in the history of the sport.
diminish or pooh pooh "CTE" but have all active players and ex players been checked for this?
I mean is it only possible to test DEAD people? if so then there is that whole causation/correlation that people love to use.
while still a tragedy and I feel for anyone who know him, i can't help but wonder if they could just test all NFL players right now and see the statistics on that.
Currently there are no distinct biomarkers for CTE diagnosis thus there is no definitive way of diagnosing CTE, except with a brain biopsy post-mortem. Neuroimaging advancement only goes as far as being able to detect subtle changes in axonal integrity of CTE and structural lesions of advanced CTE.
Figure he played 4 years of high school, 4 years of college, then 20 years in the NFL. So at least 28 years of his 43 year life, he played football. 24 of them in D-1 and the NFL. And that doesn't include youth football, which he probably played.
That kind of time in the league will take a toll. I was shocked to see just now that he was drafted in 1990, in the same round as Rodney Hampton. I feel like Hampton played a million years ago, and Seau just retired a couple years back.
CTE can only be conclusively diagnosed by cutting open the brain. That is why Duerson, specifically, shot himself in the chest. He wanted his brain examined.
Now, it is possible to do a better job of monitoring for certain symptoms--depression, loss of mental acuity, etc. But, even then, it is impossible to know whether CTE caused the symptoms without a brain examination.
It must be terrifying for a lot of ex-football players (and other former pro athletes in violent sports) to walk around wondering whether some day soon their brain is going to start to rebel.
so many of these head injuries happen because the rules heavily favor explosive offenses and dont allow the defenses to slow down offenses at all. Instead of being able to by physical with receivers, defenders have to play off and let the receivers run through the secondary. The only way defenses can react is by playing more zone, and thus having a bunch of guys standing around waiting to deliver kill shots.
Combine that with the fact that you have more and more rookie and 2nd year QBs playing who cannot properly read these complex coverages, and thus are leading their WRs right into the jaws of these big safeties and linebackers.
are suicides becoming more common ? Care over head injuries was certain less sophisticated 50 yrs ago. This begs to be researched in depth. Some possibilities:
1. It is not more common it just seems that way. i.e. suicide underreported in the past or just more public now.
2. Something in the game has changed i.e. faster, stronger, etc. Seems unlikely to me given the rules changes that Greg noted.
3. Other football factors - this could be a big one especially the use of drugs, both legal and steroids. My anecdotal experience is that consistent use of pain medication totally messes you up physically and phsycologically. Steroids also seem to have serious psychological side effects.
4. Other cultural factors - I think this may be a big one. Suicide seems more "accepted" now than it was 50 yrs ago. Whether it was fear of hell or just a stronger sense of being a man, my impression is that people are willing to turn to suicide much more easily. Thus suicide seems much less common among WW II vets than modern vets. This is simply my perception. No idea if the facts back it up.
I hope the lawsuits push the league and outside council to really get at this issue.
but what about padding on the outside of helmets (while keeping the inside padding as well)....It would look horrendous yes but It would most definitely decrease the impact of collisions
I do give Goodell credit - though the league itself stymied the research for years. In addition, any talk of a longer regular season needs to be put to bed forever.
Actually, that's already been around for a long time - the Pro Cap, as worn by Mark Kelso and Steve Wallace. But it looked funny, so no one else ever wore it
I don't know if anyone here listens to Ron & Fez on Sirius
They were discussing this topic a couple weeks ago and who calls in out of the blue but Frank Wychek.
He said he suffered many concussions over the course of his career...that was actually the cause of his retirement. He said that as a 40 year old now he's worried about what will happen to him over the next decade, as that is the period when victims usually start to really break down.
He said the funny thing was that the concussion that ended his career wasn't caused by a big hit. He said he was blocking and his own running back's knee grazed his helmet as he went over the pile. He was unconscious on the field for 40 seconds and never played again having never gotten over the post-concussion symptoms.
His NFL health insurance expired 4 years after he was out of the league. He sounded like a scared guy.
but that will not stop them from targeting the heads of others. A lot of the problem is just the speed of the game, athletes are bigger and faster and stronger than they have ever been and when they collide bad things happen.
the rules favor reckless QB play, it's not just a result of people who can't read the field. If I lead a guy across the middle he's going to either make a play, or increase the chance of getting us a 15 yard penalty.
Has been saying for years that outside padding would help and the only thing keeping that from happening is how it looks. If the NFL mandated it, it wouldn't matter.
Sadly he ended up shooting himself after leaving the league. In his case - although never proven completely since no one wanted to look too deep - it was a combination of genetics and steroids more than anything else. Steroids - more specifically coming off of steroids - creates severe depression issues that can be fatal when the person involved is predisposed toward depression already.
Another friend who played in the NFL for a decade died of a rare cancer and another former NFL player has a kid with a very rare disease. All three made the NFL in large part due to steroids (all three came into college without fanfare) and sadly all three paid the price as I am convinced the depression and diseases that ravaged all three are directly related to steroids.
I don't recall if it was an issue during his career
but besides being an awesome LB, was Seau known for spearing or leading with his head much, before it became illegal or punishable to the degree it is now?
I think they also need to expand active rosters by five or six...
to allow for more rotation and rest in-game and ensure that if you do have a couple injuries the guy who is a little woozy doesn't have to go out there just because of numbers.
padding would help) but more with the violent movement of the head causing the brain slam against the skull?
I'm not sure how extra padding would help that. Seems the bigger thing to work on would be shock absorption to limit the movement of the brain inside the skull.
If that makes any sense at all. I am no neurologist.
The link doesn't mention it, but IIRC Steve Wallace's career was in danger from repeated concussions which is why he used it, and I'm pretty sure he never got one after using it. Link - ( New Window )
As I understand it, the concussion is caused by the brain bouncing up against the inside of the skull. If you're wearing a helmet with more padding, you're making the head heavier, and, in effect, more unwieldy. So you get hit in the head and you have a harder time controlling your head's movement in the instant after.
about the relationship of CTE to ALS and stated that American Football players and International Soccer players have the most cases of ALS per capita than any other sport and/or social group.
Football players obviously from hitting - soccer players from heading the ball. I wonder how far ahead or behind the European medical community is compared to us in terms of research.
yup which is why I don't understand. They better do something or they are going to be in deep shit with these lawsuits (which is probably inevitable at this point anyway)
"Mark Kelso (Bills) and Steve Wallace (49ers) were the only two NFL players known to have worn the "Procap Eliminator" during actual league games. When it was suggested that Steve Young try this cap to help reduce the chance of future concussions he remarked that he would first retire before wearing the unusual looking device. Apparently there is less vanity in the high school and college ranks where this product is worn by many players who have suffered previous head injuries while wearing only the conventional protective helmet. This product is not endorsed by Riddell and Schutt has not taken an official position regarding its use. NFL trainers are reluctant to recommend its use without endorsement from the helmet industry.
So, yeah, if a bright guy like Steve Young said that....
but I wonder if CTE and for example the way they dissected Chris Henry's brain and found signs of trauma/damage has anything to do with why Seau shot himself in the chest instead of the head.
I figured multiple concussions was a symptom of CTE and they were referring to the condition as such. Either way, if you haven't seen the documentary it is really eye-opening.
I don't know how many concussions Seau had, but if his suicide was a result of symptoms of CTE then the NFL really, really needs to do something about the hits.
I'm all for changing the design of the helmets and having strict enforcement about tackling if it means preserving the life and health of an NFL player.
suicides have always been prevalent and were just covered up in the past. Sometimes they still are. I had a friend who was severely depressed and then one day was "killed after being hit by a car." I don't buy it, and if it is true, he ran into traffic on purpose. Suicide comes with a bad connotation and although more accepted now, people still can't face the truth sometimes.
If the sport changes to stop things like this from happening
Get rid of the common helmet. The newer helmets that were created for Peyton Manning after he broke his jaw are the highest rates helmet. Virginia Tech did concision studies using sensors in the helmet and after finding out that the traditional Riddel helmet was the worst rated, they got rid of all of them and switched to jaw style helmet. Here is the ESPN article on their research. Concussion Study - ( New Window )
Seau played way too long. He should have retired with chargers
I feel like helmets aren't the solution. These guys aren't getting skull fractures or anything, the helmets work, but they can't stop the sudden change of direction that moves the brain around inside the skull. You could wear the greatest helmet on earth, but as long as you're changing direction forcefully/suddenly, your brain has the potential to move and impact the inside of the skull, causing a concussion.
I've said this before, and maybe it won't help, and it's certainly a pipedream/will never happen, but they should think about putting weight limits in the game. Make these players smaller. Mandate it. Smaller, slower, less muscle, less forceful impact.
I also think the changes in the passing game - restrictions on checking receivers at the line, or clutching/grabbing receivers, is a problem too. These guys are FLYING down the field or across the field, and when they make a catch and get smoked by a defensive player, the impact is that much more violent.
Smaller players, slower players, maybe even reduced padding to make these guys less inclined to go for the kill.
You only need 300 pound lineman because the other team has 300 pound lineman. 250-275 pound players could do all the same things if their counterparts were the same size.
I don't know, I think the sport has major changes coming. Just thinking of changes that wouldn't turn it into flag football, but could also help long term problems. Smaller players would reduce stress on the heart, reduce impact, reduce PED use, etc.
By a tom of players in the league. That article came out last summer and I thought for sure that TE league was going to switch all helmets over especially now that there I statistical evidence that the traditional helmets are baby doing what they should.
if you play organized football for 20 years at a high level, lessening the totality of the abuse by x% isn't going to do anything other than slightly reduce the problem.
bottom line is these guys need to go away. I don't know if they should be baselining every single player in the league, but when people start showing the signs of this, they need to go away. if you start losing people quickly, that would probably be the best motivation to make changes, and from the player perspective to MAKE them make changes.
with concussions, depression and thoughts of suicide:
Quote:
NFL Hall of Famer and former NY Giants Linebacker Harry Carson was the special guest speaker at Thursdays annual Head Injury Association forum on Long Island and for good reason. Carson shared more personal revelations about his struggles with post concussion syndrome, revealing that at one time he was so depressed that he considered suicide. The depression got so bad that when I would drive over the Tappan Zee Bridge, I would think let me just drive off the bridge!
Where he blamed steroids for his brain cancer when steroids didn't cause his brain cancer (lyle, not seau). There are tons of people who commit suicide every day, much more than many people realize. With Junior's letter he needs an explanation to why he did what he did.
I am not saying football didn't contribute or cause anything, I just hope we don't jump to conclusions on the matter without scientific proof. I am glad he requested his brain be researched, since many suicides won't get a full autopsy.
if you want a good explanation for why guys do this
go read about Mike Richter's story about PCS. and keep in mind that being a hockey goalie, his experiences are probably exponentially better than what happens to a seriously tenured football player.
Saying what Michael Vick did was a "mistake" implies that he messed up. He killed/tortured dogs, multiple times. The only "mistake" he made was getting caught
and doesn't even warrant a response from anyone here. The only thing I will say is that I hope this guy suffers multiple concussions at one point in his life
These boards need better moderation to delete some garbage being
You do understand that CTE is a severe brain disease, two of the symptoms of which are severe depression and a very sharp increase in suicidal tendencies, right?
Are you really stupid enough to think of this as a lifestyle choice?
I bet you think of "The Gay" as a lifestyle choice, too, huh?
He had 3 kids and a family to raise and support but he killed himself!
That is called being SELFISH!!!!
I dont care what kind of problems you have in life. Everyone has issues point blank. So dont tell me I need to feel sorry for Seau because he committed suicide.
He's a starting QB in the NFL making millions of dollars. Boo fucking hoo. And you know what, he IS a fucking criminal and he has no one to blame but himself.
Always enjoy your posts because they have truth to them. This guy clearly has the comprehension level of a child and probably can't even understand what you are saying
We all realize suicide is a selfish act. It doesnt mean that one can't feel sadness that an individual was so depressed they felt suicide was the only way. It also doesn't make the loss of the individual any less significant.
it's not a suicide in the truest sense. what you're dealing with is a disease. 30-40 year old people with damaged, withered brains of elderly people. it's an unnatural form of dementia.
and the way these are being carried out is creepy.
I have watched football weekly for well over forty years. IMO the evolution of better helmets and face guards has seem to have the opposite effect and only worsen the problem. Defenders now appear to feel so "protected" they use their helmet as a weapon and launch themselves into the opposition. years ago players were taught tackling technique and you would wrap up and use your shoulder (think old fashion tackling dummy). Players now mostly just lead with their helmets (heads).
I don't know if it would work, but it seems like if they would reduced the face mask to a minimum, it might make a player think twice about leading with his head as often as he now does and go back to using the padded shoulder. I guarantee it they all would be given an old leather helmet you would see a different approach to tackling on the field (not suggesting this literally)
i remember a group of NE lb's were laughing it up piror to Eli's 4th qtr drive. Junior played so long in the NFL, it was bittersweet he did not win the SB. He was one great LB and deserves to be in the HOF.
It was bittersweet when the Giants beat the Pats..
family and take his own life. That is a horrifying illness i wish on nobody. really sad for his family. The saturday night poster is a complete idiot for those comments.
Truly sad news. I always thought he was a great ambassador for the sport when he played. I hope he finally found himself some peace after he's been living with so much pain.
Awesome player in his prime, great guy by all accounts. I'll always remember him as a Charger, but two memories of him from SB 42 that will stay in my mind forever. The embrace between he and Bruschi after Brady hit Moss with 2:42 left, the high of football high's, followed by this picture, the low of football lows. Mort mentioned this photo on nfl live today
I remember saying to myself that the only consolation I could take in Giants loss in SB42 would be to see Junior Seau finally win one... I was rooting for him in '94 but they were just so badly outmatched...
The biggest issue hear isn't about the NFL figuring out
how to protect these guys more. It is about the NFL and former players getting current players to learn to protect themselves. Stop leading with the head, longer suspensions for repeat offenders, and more control over players that appear to suffer head injuries.
but I think it's ironic that this sad news comes on the heels of the NFL coming down hard on the Saints players who were involved in bounty-gate! Seau may have been a victim of multiple concussions, leading to this tragic end. I hope that with an autopsy this link may be revealed.
comparing Leather Helmets vs Modern Helmets. Not a whole lot of difference in the study, and in some cases the Leather Helmet posed less of a risk for concussions (though there was a higher risk of skull fracture).
I think there's a whole lot of good suggestions here, including going back to the pre 1978 rules for passing. I'd add a shorter season, more byes during the season (more time to recover), age limit for players, and weight limits for positions (No OT's over 300lbs, for example).
We also need to go back to the 14 (or even 12 game) schedule, IMO...there are just too many games for the human body to endure the punishment the players are getting.
I had a close friend who committed suicide 7 years ago. It bothers the hell out of me every single day of my life. If I had any sign of him doing something like that, I would have done everything I could to get him help and stop it. I still have a million questions about what exactly happened that I'll never get answered.
Actually its not. If you've ever volunteered for one of the suicide hotlines. The one thing you learn is that, if you have a friend or family member that stays close to you during times like this. Or is there to show you tough love when you're thinking like this. These situations can be avoided.
When there is no one there to turn to. Or no one sees the signs. This is usually the end game.
Saying that he had asked Seau after hearing about him driving off a cliff... He assured Wiley that he had just fallen asleep... Sounds like Seau was just the kind of guy who never wanted anyone to see him down...
As for "slapping him around" and comparing Seau to a weak self pitying character from a movie, just an incredibly ignorant statement...
I've volunteered on these hotlines. And friends and family members are in fact the best ones to reach these individuals. Often times with tough love. Now no one actually knows the circumstances with him. Or if the signs were ignored.
But like I said. The question always needs to asked, where were your friends? Whether they want to hear that or not. After this is done, they're usually the ones asking, why didn't I do more?
do yourself a favor and go read the assholes comments earlier in the thread about how we are all hypocrites for having sympathy for Seau...that is something to argue about. Right now Rflairr's comments are not AND were not meant to be unsympathetic
The question always needs to asked, where were your friends? Whether you want to hear that or not. After this is done, they're usually the ones asking, why didn't I do more to stop Rflairr from digging the hole deeper with every post.
See how easy it is to be sanctimonious after the fact?
People offered you an out, you refused it, so take your medicine.
kill themselves inside of a couple weeks. From the same company (typically 120-140, but it might have been beefed up). Didn't have a particularly trying mission, probably not PTSD, but so many unanswered questions.
the point is each case is different and we have no way of knowing what truly went on here. The way you went about expressing it is where you went wrong. You acted like the blame is at the feet of his friends and then said some more dumb shit after that. You have no idea so it's just dumb to basically say his friends should have stepped in to help without knowing anything about the specific case.
Part of great LB corps at USC. He was loved in San Diego and consider a great ambassador of the NFL. Truly a great player both on and off the field. This is a tragedy on many levels.
Please. Depression isn't just feeling bad for yourself for a while, you can't just slap somebody out of it. It's a serious illness. Seau's condition may have been related to football, or maybe not, we'll find out eventually. But the idea that he just needed a friend to tell him to wake up is absurd.
Medication, serious clinical help, sure. But tough love isn't changing anything.
see Shelley Smith outside of Seau's home and she was talking about Seau's dog and that his best friend who took care of the dog when Seau was out of town came to get the dog and Smith asked him how he was feeling.
Is she fucking serious with that question? What the hell is wrong with her?
talking to the media. Brought tears to my eyes. He was obviously very ill, and likely has had difficulties for a long time. Prayers for him and his family. Just unreal guys.
Sad day in sports , Something needs to be done
about the way the game is played and the equipment
that is used . Jlukes great point about slowing the game back down . I think they will have to look down every avenue
to protect these men from ending up ill or dead
from the violence that is football .
Some of these comments are really disheartening .
Referencing Kurt Kobain and "over reacting" also
RFlair make a mistake just bow out would ya .
Its an easy mistake to say the wrong thing .
Game is rough enough with out Idiots like Greg Williams
involved . Lifetime ban is in order .
over 20 years ago, we lost a good friend to illness. Her husband was taking it hard. My dad went to visit him one Sunday and everything seemed to be ok. Three hours later the guy hung himself in the basement leaving his three kids now with no parents.
What pushes someone to the brink? I have no idea. In this instance, you really could not tell he was thinking suicide. He also had planned it because he emptied bank accounts and had all of the cash in his pockets so the kids would get it I guess..
So, to the guy who said where were his friends... dude he could have easily sheltered them from what he was feeling inside.
He does a show with Max Kellerman, 710 ESPN in LA. The show is available as a podcast on iTunes, the news comes out about 10 minutes in to hour 2 of the show.
Wiley was a teammate/friend of Seau's, and does a very good job of portraying him as a great, great person/teammate. It's hard because he's obviously upset and breaks down a few times, but the stories and the stuff about who Seau was is really worth listening to. I admit, I didn't know much about the guy off the field or what type of person he was. He played out west most of his career so I guess I never paid too much attention to him other than knowing he was a great LBer.
Not sure what the reason was; that is very difficult to ever determine. It is always a tragedy though that one would think could be prevented.
As to changing the game, I don't think an equipment change will help with head injuries. Perhaps a rules change or better treatments should be considered further.
never being listed on an injury report with a concussion......that may be true but how many times during his career did he "get his bell rung" as announcers & other used to often say when the word concussion was still tabboo.
I'm incredibly shocked. He was one of the "good guys", he was a role model, he was such an easy guy to root for; the first non-Giant football player I became a fan of.
or Duerson's passing. It is crazy to me to know that they have helmets that offer better protection, but no one wants to wear them because "They don't look good". They should at least start requiring them in college. That way by the time the player gets to the pros - it won't seem so odd. Then in another 3-5 years make them required equipment in the NFL (I don't think the pros will take to them overnight). And, besides if everyone is wearing them how would it look funny?
I feel like these helmets cause concussions easier
then no helmets. I mean, the MM concussion early in the season looked harmless. His head hit the turf and that was it, if I recall correctly. I remember being surprised that that light contact shook him up.
Shouldn't a helmet be able to stop a concussion from contact with soft grass? Anyone know a bit more about the durability and mechanics of NFL helmets?
I remember when I played, the worst part about the helmets was sound that would reverberate in the helmet when making contact with hard objects.
And what happened to the old neck braces that Linebackers used to wear? I'd imagine the neck support could help with head injuries because the neck is better supported and the head doesn't whip around as much. I'm probably way off though.
I just had one when I was in a car accident. The doctor said it's when you stop suddenly, your brain is still moving inside your skull and even if you don't hit your head, the brain bounces back and forth within the skull and that causes the concussion.
Mine was a mild concussion. Two weeks later I was walking down the stairs and my cat ran in front of me. I tried to stop and wound up sitting down hard on the steps. I didn't hit my head, but it jostled my brain. That felt worse than what happened during the car accident. These guys are probably getting mild concussions every game.
We as fans often question athletes toughness, tolerance to pain, contract negotiations, etc. Sitting in front of a TV or on the internet is easy to do when your playing with someone else's life. These guys through so much in their lives that no one else see..That T-Shirt that Tuck wore and many ripped him for "My pain, your excitement" or something like that is real..Which is why i never question these guys ability..We have no idea what they go through..It may seem like they got it made because of the money, but money doesn't not buy happiness or tranquility..
They do not buckle their chin straps tight, so the helmet is not as protective as it could be. Half of them do not wear mouthpieces. These are contributing factors.
Players no the risks they are taking. Its a tragedy that Seau took his life, but the true tragedy is his three children who now no longer have a father. The tragedy is there were thousands of people who were there for Junior wo he could have reached out to.
Don't blame football. Don't blame the NFL. Football did not put a gun in his hands. There are plenty of players, 99.5% of them who do not committ suicide.
What changed? I guess there were some rule changes, but were they prompted by Duerson? -- not sure, they appeared to be directed against exceptional hits vs. the grinding everyday hits of lineman, LBs and running backs.
I hate to think this, but the reality is that as time passes, this will become another news item from last year.
This isnt the first evidence of depression/illness from a concussion and if history is a gauge, it won't be the last.
Unless the players association steps in and protects their players proactively rather than after they retire.
Wowww
Link - ( New Window )
RIP
I wouldn't be surprised if that was true Greg.
Have to wonder if this sport will even be around in a few decades.
RIP Junior ... a real warrior.
Link - ( New Window )
There's been the argument for awhile that the safety improvements (helmets, pads, etc) have encouraged "harder" hits (legal or otherwise doesn't really matter in this context, I assume), which may be causing greater damage than in the past when defenders had to be careful to not hurt themselves on these hits.
RIP Jr., sad... but sometimes people are just crazy. It's a long fast drop from the top, there was a reason he stayed in the league so long, I'm sure it had nothing to do with his "love" of the game.
It's such a cash cow at the NCAA/NFL level it'll never die from the top down. But if kids stop playing it's going to be a big issue.
Eight members of a 53-man roster are dead from a team less than 20 years ago. The odds of that have to be astronomical.
I might be wrong, though.
While I think prescription drugs can do a lot of good, the cocktails that people will access are taking, are incredibly dangerous.
I have no idea if Seau had been taking pills, but he wouldn't be the first former athlete with a lot of recurring pain from his playing days to do so.
Sucks - ( New Window )
Is that an issue for them?
Link - ( New Window )
Back in 2011, former NFL star Dave Duerson shot himself in the chest ... and explained in his suicide note that he wanted his brain donated to a research center because he believed the blows he took to the head during his football career caused him to become mentally impaired.
This is a huge fucking deal. Here's hoping that in his tragic death Seau becomes the poster boy for reforms that exceed the lip service the issue is being given now by the NFL and the NFLPA.
you get 8 guys out of one team dead already, it doesn't sound like CTE.
All that said, I still think allowing a youngster to play football is a good idea. What this should do though is make anyone with kids who play that much more aware of concussions. I definitely got dinged when I was younger, and probably should not have gone back out there when I did. Everyone has to be more vigilant.
I mean is it only possible to test DEAD people? if so then there is that whole causation/correlation that people love to use.
while still a tragedy and I feel for anyone who know him, i can't help but wonder if they could just test all NFL players right now and see the statistics on that.
From Wikipedia
That kind of time in the league will take a toll. I was shocked to see just now that he was drafted in 1990, in the same round as Rodney Hampton. I feel like Hampton played a million years ago, and Seau just retired a couple years back.
Now, it is possible to do a better job of monitoring for certain symptoms--depression, loss of mental acuity, etc. But, even then, it is impossible to know whether CTE caused the symptoms without a brain examination.
It must be terrifying for a lot of ex-football players (and other former pro athletes in violent sports) to walk around wondering whether some day soon their brain is going to start to rebel.
Now.
Combine that with the fact that you have more and more rookie and 2nd year QBs playing who cannot properly read these complex coverages, and thus are leading their WRs right into the jaws of these big safeties and linebackers.
Drug overdose, drunk driving and being 456 lbs. are pretty easy ways to find yourself dead.
1. It is not more common it just seems that way. i.e. suicide underreported in the past or just more public now.
2. Something in the game has changed i.e. faster, stronger, etc. Seems unlikely to me given the rules changes that Greg noted.
3. Other football factors - this could be a big one especially the use of drugs, both legal and steroids. My anecdotal experience is that consistent use of pain medication totally messes you up physically and phsycologically. Steroids also seem to have serious psychological side effects.
4. Other cultural factors - I think this may be a big one. Suicide seems more "accepted" now than it was 50 yrs ago. Whether it was fear of hell or just a stronger sense of being a man, my impression is that people are willing to turn to suicide much more easily. Thus suicide seems much less common among WW II vets than modern vets. This is simply my perception. No idea if the facts back it up.
I hope the lawsuits push the league and outside council to really get at this issue.
Money and glory ain't worth it.
He said he suffered many concussions over the course of his career...that was actually the cause of his retirement. He said that as a 40 year old now he's worried about what will happen to him over the next decade, as that is the period when victims usually start to really break down.
He said the funny thing was that the concussion that ended his career wasn't caused by a big hit. He said he was blocking and his own running back's knee grazed his helmet as he went over the pile. He was unconscious on the field for 40 seconds and never played again having never gotten over the post-concussion symptoms.
His NFL health insurance expired 4 years after he was out of the league. He sounded like a scared guy.
When it reached a certain level, either it prompted aggressive testing, or they reached a sort of "you're finished" level.
But of course that puts the player safety completely at the top and raises secondary questions about contracts, roster spots, etc.
Another friend who played in the NFL for a decade died of a rare cancer and another former NFL player has a kid with a very rare disease. All three made the NFL in large part due to steroids (all three came into college without fanfare) and sadly all three paid the price as I am convinced the depression and diseases that ravaged all three are directly related to steroids.
Deterioration in attention, concentration, memory
Disorientation
Confusion
Dizziness
Headaches
Lack of insight
Poor judgment
Overt dementia
Slowed muscular movements
Staggered gait
Impeded speech
Tremors
Vertigo
Deafness
could lead one to think: "I'm only going to get worse," and want out.
Btw, not on this list but known to be an indirect effect of CTE is abuse of prescription drugs as the symptoms increase.
I'm not sure how extra padding would help that. Seems the bigger thing to work on would be shock absorption to limit the movement of the brain inside the skull.
If that makes any sense at all. I am no neurologist.
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Football players obviously from hitting - soccer players from heading the ball. I wonder how far ahead or behind the European medical community is compared to us in terms of research.
So, yeah, if a bright guy like Steve Young said that....
Wow.
It is now believed that Lou Gehrig may not have had Lou Gehrig's disease, but CTE instead.
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I'm all for changing the design of the helmets and having strict enforcement about tackling if it means preserving the life and health of an NFL player.
Something has to change!
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I've said this before, and maybe it won't help, and it's certainly a pipedream/will never happen, but they should think about putting weight limits in the game. Make these players smaller. Mandate it. Smaller, slower, less muscle, less forceful impact.
I also think the changes in the passing game - restrictions on checking receivers at the line, or clutching/grabbing receivers, is a problem too. These guys are FLYING down the field or across the field, and when they make a catch and get smoked by a defensive player, the impact is that much more violent.
Smaller players, slower players, maybe even reduced padding to make these guys less inclined to go for the kill.
You only need 300 pound lineman because the other team has 300 pound lineman. 250-275 pound players could do all the same things if their counterparts were the same size.
I don't know, I think the sport has major changes coming. Just thinking of changes that wouldn't turn it into flag football, but could also help long term problems. Smaller players would reduce stress on the heart, reduce impact, reduce PED use, etc.
if you play organized football for 20 years at a high level, lessening the totality of the abuse by x% isn't going to do anything other than slightly reduce the problem.
bottom line is these guys need to go away. I don't know if they should be baselining every single player in the league, but when people start showing the signs of this, they need to go away. if you start losing people quickly, that would probably be the best motivation to make changes, and from the player perspective to MAKE them make changes.
and not a punter, QB or kicker, you're doing something wrong.
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I am not saying football didn't contribute or cause anything, I just hope we don't jump to conclusions on the matter without scientific proof. I am glad he requested his brain be researched, since many suicides won't get a full autopsy.
go read about Mike Richter's story about PCS. and keep in mind that being a hockey goalie, his experiences are probably exponentially better than what happens to a seriously tenured football player.
Ignorance and backwards views about suicide are too disheartening to argue with.
is a fucking moron.
It's not worth our time, he doesn't deserve our thoughts.
Are you really stupid enough to think of this as a lifestyle choice?
I bet you think of "The Gay" as a lifestyle choice, too, huh?
That is called being SELFISH!!!!
I dont care what kind of problems you have in life. Everyone has issues point blank. So dont tell me I need to feel sorry for Seau because he committed suicide.
Self inflicted DEATH doesnt give you a pass.
Let the man rest in peace, bashing him is disgusting.
Go troll elsewhere.
it's not a suicide in the truest sense. what you're dealing with is a disease. 30-40 year old people with damaged, withered brains of elderly people. it's an unnatural form of dementia.
and the way these are being carried out is creepy.
I don't know if it would work, but it seems like if they would reduced the face mask to a minimum, it might make a player think twice about leading with his head as often as he now does and go back to using the padded shoulder. I guarantee it they all would be given an old leather helmet you would see a different approach to tackling on the field (not suggesting this literally)
It doesn€™t mean he didn€™t have any, but the late, great Junior Seau never was listed on an NFL Injury report as having a concussion.
Seeing this happen time and again to a popular and/or wealthy person is a real head scratcher. I wish the best for his family & friends.
Makes you think of the Don Corleone and Johnny Fontane scene in Godfather.
I think there's a whole lot of good suggestions here, including going back to the pre 1978 rules for passing. I'd add a shorter season, more byes during the season (more time to recover), age limit for players, and weight limits for positions (No OT's over 300lbs, for example).
We also need to go back to the 14 (or even 12 game) schedule, IMO...there are just too many games for the human body to endure the punishment the players are getting.
I had a close friend who committed suicide 7 years ago. It bothers the hell out of me every single day of my life. If I had any sign of him doing something like that, I would have done everything I could to get him help and stop it. I still have a million questions about what exactly happened that I'll never get answered.
When there is no one there to turn to. Or no one sees the signs. This is usually the end game.
ESPN's got the clips of Momma Seau & Wiley up.. I dunno if those people should've had cameras in front of their face.
As for "slapping him around" and comparing Seau to a weak self pitying character from a movie, just an incredibly ignorant statement...
from personal experience, i can tell you it's very hard to reach someone fighting these demons and completely wipe them away
Makes you think of the Billy Madison oral exam scene in "Billy Madison".
But like I said. The question always needs to asked, where were your friends? Whether they want to hear that or not. After this is done, they're usually the ones asking, why didn't I do more?
See how easy it is to be sanctimonious after the fact?
People offered you an out, you refused it, so take your medicine.
Maybe that's what he was suggesting be done for Seau by his apparently crappy friends.
People need to be not only more self-aware, but more mindful. Wowzers!
Medication, serious clinical help, sure. But tough love isn't changing anything.
Is she fucking serious with that question? What the hell is wrong with her?
about the way the game is played and the equipment
that is used . Jlukes great point about slowing the game back down . I think they will have to look down every avenue
to protect these men from ending up ill or dead
from the violence that is football .
Some of these comments are really disheartening .
Referencing Kurt Kobain and "over reacting" also
RFlair make a mistake just bow out would ya .
Its an easy mistake to say the wrong thing .
Game is rough enough with out Idiots like Greg Williams
involved . Lifetime ban is in order .
What pushes someone to the brink? I have no idea. In this instance, you really could not tell he was thinking suicide. He also had planned it because he emptied bank accounts and had all of the cash in his pockets so the kids would get it I guess..
So, to the guy who said where were his friends... dude he could have easily sheltered them from what he was feeling inside.
Wiley was a teammate/friend of Seau's, and does a very good job of portraying him as a great, great person/teammate. It's hard because he's obviously upset and breaks down a few times, but the stories and the stuff about who Seau was is really worth listening to. I admit, I didn't know much about the guy off the field or what type of person he was. He played out west most of his career so I guess I never paid too much attention to him other than knowing he was a great LBer.
As to changing the game, I don't think an equipment change will help with head injuries. Perhaps a rules change or better treatments should be considered further.
Shouldn't a helmet be able to stop a concussion from contact with soft grass? Anyone know a bit more about the durability and mechanics of NFL helmets?
I remember when I played, the worst part about the helmets was sound that would reverberate in the helmet when making contact with hard objects.
And what happened to the old neck braces that Linebackers used to wear? I'd imagine the neck support could help with head injuries because the neck is better supported and the head doesn't whip around as much. I'm probably way off though.
But the other way helmets make it worse is that players use them as weapons. How many concussions happen in professional rugby compared to the NFL?
Mine was a mild concussion. Two weeks later I was walking down the stairs and my cat ran in front of me. I tried to stop and wound up sitting down hard on the steps. I didn't hit my head, but it jostled my brain. That felt worse than what happened during the car accident. These guys are probably getting mild concussions every game.
R.I.P Junior..
Players no the risks they are taking. Its a tragedy that Seau took his life, but the true tragedy is his three children who now no longer have a father. The tragedy is there were thousands of people who were there for Junior wo he could have reached out to.
Don't blame football. Don't blame the NFL. Football did not put a gun in his hands. There are plenty of players, 99.5% of them who do not committ suicide.
What changed? I guess there were some rule changes, but were they prompted by Duerson? -- not sure, they appeared to be directed against exceptional hits vs. the grinding everyday hits of lineman, LBs and running backs.
I hate to think this, but the reality is that as time passes, this will become another news item from last year.
This isnt the first evidence of depression/illness from a concussion and if history is a gauge, it won't be the last.
Unless the players association steps in and protects their players proactively rather than after they retire.