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Matt G : 7/18/2012 8:20 am
per Adam Schefter...

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Dam ....  
mjt832 : 7/18/2012 8:56 am : link
Ronnie C. : 7/18/2012 9:01 am : link
I'm not anointing him the next great QB. I'm just arguing against the notion that he won't be successful. I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt that we'll be facing a dangerous QB for years to come.

Mike...isn't that just semantics? Young was bar-none a great QB, period. However, he was extremely dangerous with his legs. Early in his career, he could be considered a running QB. Once he became a much better passer, he didn't have to run as much.

And how can anyone say that he can't read defenses right now? He'll be coached by NFL caliber coaches and will spend his days and nights learning and getting better. I am not going to say that he can or can't at this point. Wait and see is my approach.
Chef - I think your typo has some validity  
snumber6 : 7/18/2012 9:07 am : link



N., a person who lacks courage and valor, a wuss. V., to behave in the manner of a choach or do someting in a choachy way, (choaching, choached, et cetera...)
From the Spanish 'Chocha,' vulgar slang refering to a woman's genitals.
Skins fans talking shit?  
djm : 7/18/2012 9:10 am : link
give me a break. Skins fans can't say a word to Giants fans.
I certainly hope he is a bust...  
Matt G : 7/18/2012 9:17 am : link
As the Skins certainly bet the farm on him... No RD1 in each of the next two years could really devastate them if he doesn't turn out to be great...

I really don't know though... He has a fantastic arm and seems to be walking into the ideal situation under Shannahan...

Oh yeah, and... "NGT! NGT! Who cares?!?!?!?"
smirns : 7/18/2012 9:19 am : link
RGIII was not a running QB in college. Just because he is fast and black (its like the small white WR comparison to Welker) does not mean he is a running QB.
Does this  
BigBlueinSoFl : 7/18/2012 9:19 am : link
make them pass us in the odds to win the super bowl now?
Most likely...  
Matt G : 7/18/2012 9:21 am : link
Read somewhere that the Jets are 12-1 odds and the Giants are 15-1 odds... Not sure how that makes any sense...
Gee, I wonder  
Rob in NYC : 7/18/2012 9:53 am : link
What the difference between a "running QB" and a "QB that can run is"? Any guesses?
Where is it 'well known' that he has trouble reading defenses?  
steve in 'skins territory : 7/18/2012 9:53 am : link
1. I have not seen that written before; and
2. He has played zero professional games. How good was Eli his first few games?
Giants odds are what they are  
UConn4523 : 7/18/2012 9:54 am : link
because repeating is unbelievably difficult, especially now with how often players come/go.
Dubs : 7/18/2012 9:55 am : link
It's not made up. He'd very often go deep instead of looking at his routes underneath. It worked in college but the windows are much tighter in the NFL. It's something to work on.
T-Bone : 7/18/2012 11:19 am : link
Where you're least from what I've heard repeatedly about RG3 is that he's a 'run first' QB. I've heard nothing but the exact opposite from every single football analyst regarding him. Like smirns said earlier in the thread:

Just because he is fast and black (its like the small white WR comparison to Welker) does not mean he is a running QB.
That said...  
T-Bone : 7/18/2012 11:24 am : link
I recently watched a replay of his first game last year (against TCU I think) where they dropped 50 on one of the best defenses in the nation...and truth be told, I wasn't that impressed. Yeah he has nice touch on the deep ball but his WRs were really making some nice catches, particularly Kendall Wright, to make him (RG3) look better than he appears to least to me.

Also, unless he puts on some major weight, I'm not sure if he's going to be able to play 16 games a year. Not because he's a running QB...but because when he DOES run I'm not sure he'll be able to take the pounding he'll receive. Even in the game I watched against TCU, there were times when he'd take off...get tackled...and appear to be hurt on the play. Of course...he'd then get up and throw a 50 yard bomb to Wright...but we'll see if he'll keep getting up when NFL-caliber players are putting those hits on him.
RB^2 : 7/18/2012 11:30 am : link
Color me clueless, I don't know!
The deal is  
RB^2 : 7/18/2012 11:32 am : link
4 years $21 million with a TEAM option for year 5. For the 2nd pick in the draft who is a QB. That seems almost identical to JPP's deal at pick 15. The new CBA has really taken a machete to high draft pick salaries.
what kinda stinks is I liked him a lot in college  
TommytheElephant : 7/18/2012 11:32 am : link
Now...*AT MOST* I am "rooting" for him 4x a year, and hoping for 12 MISERABLE games out of him...weird what a jersey change can do to someone.
Blue Baller : 7/18/2012 11:34 am : link
that is a small contract
Mike from SI : 7/18/2012 11:34 am : link
Well done.

Dismissing Steve Young as not a running QB, because if he were considered a running QB, it would disprove your entire point? #BBIArgumentTechniques
dirtyjerz19 : 7/18/2012 12:21 pm : link
Michael Vick is a running QB
Aaron Rodgers is a QB that can run
Rookies have no representation at the CBA bargaining table  
Dubs : 7/18/2012 12:22 pm : link
Veterans were pissed that the top picks were making more before they even stepped foot on the field than some guys make in their whole careers, and owners didn't want to keep shelling out that kind of money to unproved players. It was one of the few things the two sides agreed upon from the beginning.
And Eli  
BigBlueinSoFl : 7/18/2012 12:23 pm : link
is a QB that can slow motion.
which of these QBs  
Blue Baller : 7/18/2012 12:25 pm : link
are running QBs and which are QBs that can run?


1. Randall Cunningham = 4,928 & 35 TDs

2. Michael Vick = 4,630 & 32 TDs

3. Steve Young [HOF] = 4,239 & 43 TDs
4. Fran Tarkenton [HOF] = 3,674 & 32 TDs

5. Steve McNair = 3,590 & 37 TDs
6. John Elway [HOF] = 3,407 & 33 TDs

RG3 can play  
Go Terps : 7/18/2012 12:31 pm : link
As for his size...6'2", 223 lbs. is the same size as or bigger than the following:

Matt Stafford
Drew Brees
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Mark Sanchez
Tony Romo
Andy Dalton
Aaron Rodgers
Michael Vick

And he's probably in better physical condition than any of those guys. I wouldn't worry about anything regarding RG3's physical ability to play QB in the NFL.
So not worried about this guy.  
Dave in Hoboken : 7/18/2012 12:35 pm : link
I'd worry about him  
an_idol_mind : 7/18/2012 12:43 pm : link
if he wasn't on the Redskins. Developing a quarterback requires patience, and the Skins don't have a lot of patience as an organization.
More important the contract RG3 signed is fully guaranteed  
Larry in Pencilvania : 7/18/2012 1:00 pm : link
and contains no offset language in case he is cut before the deal expires. That is why the top 8 picks have been holding out
For perspective  
RB^2 : 7/18/2012 1:05 pm : link
In 2008, Matt Ryan signed a 6-year $72 million deal with $34.75 million guaranteed as the 3rd pick in the draft.
Given how much smaller RG III's contract is  
RB^2 : 7/18/2012 1:11 pm : link
compared to Matt Ryan's 4 years ago and that this deal is now the new normal, I think more teams will move up for QB's going forward, which will make the draft more exciting to follow.
T-Bone : 7/18/2012 1:13 pm : link
I don't put much weight (no pun intended) into listed NFL measurements for the most part (and Stafford is actually 6'3"...which I was still surprised to see because he 'looks' taller to me).

But besides all of that, you've listed 8 QBs who I don't think many would classify as 'ironmen'. I'm not questioning RG3's ability to play the game...but take the beating associated with playing the game. Just like most do with many of the QBs on your list.
Go Terps : 7/18/2012 1:28 pm : link
Two of the guys I listed are among the very best in the game. My point is simply that RG3's size, while not a plus like Peyton or Newton, is also not a negative. And it should be repeated that he is in elite physical condition...there might not be a better athlete at QB in the NFL.

There isn't a QB in the NFL that can stand up to the repeated punishment defenses are capable of doling out. Griffin is going to have to have protection and be able to pick his spots in order to stay healthy. But that applies for any QB.

Taking those stats in isolation does present a proper picture  
McL : 7/18/2012 1:34 pm : link
Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate Sk Yds
Att Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G A/G

Randall Cunningham
2429 4289 56.6 29979 207 4.8 134 3.1 95 7.0 6.5 12.3 186.2 81.5 484 3537

775 4928 35 52 6.4 30.6 4.8

Michael Vick
1422 2538 56.0 17912 111 4.4 72 2.8 91 7.1 6.7 12.6 161.4 80.9 244 1489

729 5219 33 58 7.2 47.0 6.6

Steve Young
2667 4149 64.3 33124 232 5.6 107 2.6 97 8.0 7.9 12.4 196.0 96.8 358 2055

722 4239 43 49 5.9 25.1 4.3

Fran Tarkenton
3686 6467 57.0 47003 342 5.3 266 4.1 89 7.3 6.5 12.8 191.1 80.4 274 2337

675 3674 32 52 5.4 14.9 2.7

Steve McNair
2733 4544 60.1 31304 174 3.8 119 2.6 87 6.9 6.5 11.5 194.4 82.8 254 1567

669 3590 37 71 5.4 22.3 4.2

John Elway
4123 7250 56.9 51475 300 4.1 226 3.1 86 7.1 6.5 12.5 220.0 79.9 516 3785

774 3407 33 31 4.4 14.6 3.3

Rushes per pass attempted, Rushing Yards per overall yards
Randall Cunningham 0.153 0.1055
Michael Vick 0.1708 0.2256
Steve Young 0.1482 0.1135
Fran Tarkenton 0.0945 0.0725
Steve McNair 0.1283 0.1029
John Elway 0.0965 0.0685

Elway and Tarkenton ran less than 10% of the time and generated less than 7.5% of their yards on the ground. I think we can categorize them as QB (first) that could run.

Cunningham and Vick both ran more than 15% of the time. CCunningham generated over 10% of his yards on the ground and Vick a staggering 22.5%... I think we can classify them as running QBs.

Steve Young and Steve McNair are borderline both generating over 10% of their yards on the ground and running over 12.8% of the time (14.8 for Young). But Steve Young was such an efficient passer (96.8 QBR), that I am going to say that despite his running ability, that he was a QB that could run. I lean towards McNair in that category also, but both deserve some debate.
T-Bone : 7/18/2012 1:36 pm : link
And my point is that, IMO, RG3's size...just as with the case with Vick...will make him more susceptible to injury than most other QBs. That's all. With a majority of the QBs on your list most would tend to think of them as somewhat 'fragile' and more likely to get injured.

If RG3's size isn't a is not a negative?
Go Terps : 7/18/2012 2:33 pm : link
It's not a negative because it doesn't detract from his ability to do anything. His size is identical to some of the best quarterbacks in the league...clearly it hasn't hampered them any.

Doug Flutie...that's a guy whose size is a negative.
T-Bone : 7/18/2012 2:40 pm : link
It's not a negative because it doesn't detract from his ability to do anything.

Except, perhaps, for his ability to stay healthy relative to other, bigger QBs.

Look...all I'm saying is that based on what I've seen of the kid (including how he appeared to not respond well to some of the hits he received in that game against TCU) I'd be just as concerned about his ability to stay on the field because of his, IMO, slight build. This is purely my opinion and I don't have much to base that on except for what I've seen of him over the past several months. I could be COMPLETELY wrong about the guy and he winds up breaking Favre's streak. I wouldn't bet on it...but it's possible.
Slight build?  
Go Terps : 7/18/2012 2:44 pm : link

The guy is a beast.
I watched that TCU game too  
Go Terps : 7/18/2012 2:46 pm : link
In their last drive he actually caught a pass over the middle and got laid out. He bounced back up and finished a game winning drive.
I think he's the real deal  
Sneakers O'toole : 7/18/2012 2:48 pm : link
of course you never know until they start playing at that next level how a guy is really going to respond. But I think he's for real.
Dubs : 7/18/2012 2:48 pm : link
Hold on. RG3 has a pretty long injury history and is more susceptible to getting hurt because, while not a running QB, he will leave the pocket quite a bit and is not exactly known for sliding. By putting yourself in those situations, you open yourself up to more damage than, say, a pocket QB.

His past and his style was, by far, my biggest concern with him going into the draft.
Respectfully disagree as..  
T-Bone : 7/18/2012 2:51 pm : link
he looks slight to me.

I remember the play you're talking about and I don't remember him bouncing up like the hit was nothing. I never said the kid wasn't tough...but toughness will only get ya so far.
T-Bone : 7/18/2012 2:55 pm : link
Thank you for that because I really am not very familiar with RG3 or his injury history so I couldn't comment on it. All I was saying is that because of his build he looks like he could get hurt more easily than most. I also remember his build being one of the few reasons why some analyst would say they'd take Luck over RG3.

And one last time...I'm not saying dude can't ball (although I wasn't personally all that impressed with him in the one game I saw). I mean, dude won a Heisman! But that statue ain't gonna help him when he gets to the big boys league.
Three and a half months later...  
Matt G : 7/18/2012 2:57 pm : link
The Go Terps vs Dubs BBI Mock Draft debate continues ;o)
I think he's going to be great  
Dubs : 7/18/2012 2:59 pm : link
But I'd find a whole host of ways to protect him if I'm Washington. The pass rushers in the NFC East are nasty.
Like I said above,  
Go Terps : 7/18/2012 3:01 pm : link
like any other QB Griffin is going to need protection and he is going to have to be smart and pick his spots.
Dubs : 7/18/2012 3:02 pm : link
It's not really a debate I have any interest in rehashing, nor do I think that's starting here. His injury concerns are very, very real. This isn't opinion, it's fact. And his style of play opens him up to more opportunities to get clobbered in a division that features, among others: JPP, Tuck, Osi, Kiwi, Ware, Cole, Babin, etc.

Those two things can be a very bad combination. Can be. Not will be. Can be.

Which would be, again, my biggest concern if I'm a Redskins fan.
Matt G  
T-Bone : 7/18/2012 3:06 pm : link

I had to go back into the archives to see what you were talking about and lo and behold...who picked RG3 with the first pick in the BBI Mock Draft?! My man GoTerps!

Ok Terps...I've known you long enough to know that you're gonna defend your stance on the guy like a doberman so I guess we'll just have to both wait and see what happens. I truly have always respected your opinion so this is something I'll be keeping an eye on in the future to see how he holds up.
Ain't got nothin on GoTerps!  
Matt G : 7/18/2012 3:14 pm : link

Go Terps : 7/18/2012 3:23 pm : link
I had Griffin as a better thrower than Luck as well as a better athlete. The intangibles were a wash as both guys appear to be outstanding in that area.

The big plus that everyone had for Luck...his experience in a complex me is only a big plus if I have reason to believe Griffin is incapable of achieving that same level of mastery. I've seen nor read nothing to indicate that.

I'd be shocked if either guy flamed out though. Both appear to be the combination of superior talent and hard work.
Go Terps : 7/18/2012 3:24 pm : link
I've seen nor read nothing to indicate that.

Brutal sentence. Sorry about that.
Go Terps : 7/18/2012 3:33 pm : link
Greg Cosell on the two QBs - ( New Window )
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