Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Observations from the first half of the Bengals game revised

NyquistX3 : 11/15/2012 12:01 am
I posted this in the thread, but it's buried and I wanted to make sure this was fixed. My brain had an inexplicable malfunction when I counted the second series of the game twice. Essentially, in an epic display of ineptitude, I observed the second drive twice, on two separate occasions, and labeled them as "second drive" and "third drive".

Since the drive did not go so well, this was a bad thing for Diehl, as he was "penalized" for four plays when in reality he only performed poorly on two. David Diehl has been an incredible player for the Giants for a long time, and I don't want him portrayed in a worse light than he's been portrayed in already in the media lately. Here's the entire thread, posted below, except now edited for proper information in the original post.

I'd also like to add that I am not an NFL level film evaluator and that this is just my observations from afar. It doesn't mean they're 100% correct. This is just what I saw on film.



I watched the entire offensive first half on the coaches tape and I'll try to shed light on what I saw from the offensive side.

Opening drive:

Eli threw two terrific passes that resulted in drops. He put the ball on Hixon's hands along the sideline on a play action rollout, and while it was a difficult catch, it bounced off Hixon's hands. It was an excellent throw as Hixon was well covered and Eli put the ball in a spot where only his receiver could get his hands on it. This would have been a first down. The ball was thrown on the move and got on Hixon quickly, showing to me that talk of Eli's arm being tired is not accurate.

On third down, Eli hit Nicks right in the chest on a crossing pattern that Nicks dropped. This would have been a first down. Eli executed well on this drive and the wideouts simply did not make plays. Three and out.


Second drive:

First play: Eli reads the blitz and hits Hixon in between a window on an in route. This is a perfect throw by Eli in between defenders. It wasn't a difficult throw but it was flawlessly executed. No problems from Eli on this play.

Second play: Diehl gets beat badly blocking the backside end, who makes the tackle after Bradshaw cuts back. If Diehl makes this block, Bradshaw is one on one with a defensive back, a favorable matchup and potential for much more than a 3 yard gain. The design of this play was excellent but the execution was poor. This could have been a huge play, there is a lot of open field past the defensive back if the end is blocked. Terrific play design by the coaches and terrific call by Eli at the line to run this play, but piss poor execution.

Third play: This is another well designed play that would have been a terrific gain if it was blocked properly. Diehl makes his block and passes the end to Bennett, who displays awful technique in blocking the end. Bennett, instead of putting his hat inside on the end, put his hat to the outside, allowing the end to penetrate down the line and make the tackle. If Bennett makes this block, the play is a 10 yard gain with potential for more instead of a 3 yard gain.

Do you see a pattern here? These are well designed plays with piss poor execution. It's convenient for fans to blame the offensive coordinator when plays don't work, but often it's not the coaches' fault. The players are being put in a position to succeed. The criticism of Gilbride is not valid through the first three drives of the game.

Eli has played flawlessly so far. Eli's receivers and line are not executing.

Third drive: this is after the Cinci muffed punt and is in the red zone

First play: Shotgun draw to Bradshaw, to the left side of the line, which gains 5 yards. This play is well blocked, but is ran away from Diehl.

Second play: Eli reads soft zone coverage on Nicks and takes advantage of the coverage by throwing to the hook route in front of the corner, who is responsible for deep third. Easy 10 yards. This is a quick three step drop, which negates the Cincinnati pass rush. Well designed play, perfect execution.

Third play: Eli reads a blitz and checks to Nicks to change his route, where Nicks catches the ball at the LOS and is one on one with the corner, who was playing off Nicks. The corner makes a good ankle tackle on this play to keep it to 3 yards. If Nicks beats the corner, the play may have gone for a touchdown, and at the very least would be near the goalline. This is a good audible from Eli, and if Nicks was 100% healthy the play may be a touchdown.

Fourth play: A shotgun draw to the right for 3 yards. Bradshaw really has no where to go. This isn't a poorly blocked play, it just didn't work. Cinci's linebackers had good pursuit. This play can be criticized as being too conservative inside the 10, but we don't know if Eli called it or if KG called it, so it's not fair to kill the OC here.

Last redzone play: The receivers aren't open in the end zone, and Eli is rushed so he has to check down to Bradshaw, which gains nothing. Snee got abused on this play by the tackle, who put Snee on roller skates. I don't know if the play would have been successful if Snee made his block, though, as the coverage was excellent. I think this is a play where you just tip your cap to the defense. They covered everybody well and didn't let Eli have the time for the receivers to work their way open. The other team has high paid professionals, too, so these type of plays happen.

Second Quarter:

Fourth drive:

First play: David Wilson is in the game. Cincinnati calls a run blitz and destroys any chance of this play having any success as the gaps are blown up and there is no where to go. This is why people screaming for Wilson to come into the game for just run plays are lost. Teams will counter this immediately with run blitzes and the play will not be effective. Wilson will not be an effective running back until the Giants begin to pass when he's in the game, and the Giants will not do that until they are convinced Wilson has a strong grasp of pass protection and audibles. This was a perfect call from the Cincinnati coaching staff.

Second play: Eli reads zone and hits Nicks on a short drag route for 5 yards. This is a good play to avoid third and long as it put the Giants in a very manageable third down. This is a well designed play.

Third play: Snee gets obliterated on this play by the tackle and Eli runs for his life. Snee is put on roller skates again, and makes a complaining gesture to the referee about something, but I didn't pick up on what he was complaining about. This is the second time during the game that Snee complains to the ref after being dominated by the tackle on a passing play.

Three and out.


Fifth drive:

First play: Eli is audibling at the line out of the shotgun empty set and Pascoe, in the slot, seems confused about what to do, as he shows this with his body language and hand gestures. Incomplete pass on a short out to Pascoe. Bad play.

Second play: Eli hits Nicks on a crossing pattern for 9 yards. It looked like Nicks cut his route a few yards short. Good execution from Eli.

Third play: Eli hits Hicks again, this time for 11 yards and a first down. This was an impressive play, as Eli had all day to throw and went through his progressions without any pressure. Nicks appeared to be his fourth read. Great job by the offensive line on this play. If they block like this, Eli will certainly play to an "elite" level consistently.

Fourth play: Eli completes to Cruz for 8 yards. This is another well blocked play by the offensive line as Eli had nobody in his face and did not have to throw the ball before he wanted to.

Fifth play: Eli, out of the shotgun, hits Nicks on a quick slant through a window for 9 yards. This is a perfectly executed and called play against the zone. Eli was right on target with his accuracy.

Sixth play: This is the first play in about 5 plays where the offensive line does a bad job. Diehl gets his ass kicked by the end, as the end bull rushes him up the field and drives Diehl into Eli. Eli recognizes the pressure and hits Randle on a short cross for a 5 yard gain. Good play from Eli to avoid the sack and take what the defense gave.

Seventh play: Eli, in a shotgun formation with trips to the right (two WR, one TE) reads blitz and checks to a quick screen to Randle out wide, to the trips side. However, the play is doomed from the snap as nobody blocks the corner covering the slot defender. This is either a missed assignment by Cruz/Bennett or just poor execution.

Eighth play: Cruz is being covered ONE ON ONE in press coverage in the slot with NO safety over the top. My eyes lit up after seeing this matchup, but Cruz gets abused by the physical corner and can't shake the defender before the clock goes off in Eli's head and he unloads the ball down the sideline to Nicks, who is running a 9 route. Eli wanted Cruz badly on this play but Cruz does a terrible job of getting open. He must do a better job of beating press coverage here. This is extremely, extremely poor. This type of matchup should be gold for the Giants and a huge play waiting to happen. If Cruz beats the defender, it's a probably a touchdown. The middle of the field is wide open.

Let me show you how good of a matchup this was:




This is a well designed play with poor execution.


Ninth play: Eli throws a perfect pass and hits Nicks for 16 yards. Excellent throw, good route, good execution. This is single coverage on Nicks and Nicks beats his defender.

Tenth play: Eli hits Bennett on an 11 yard choice route against man coverage. The linebacker is playing Bennett to the inside, so Bennett cuts to the outside, and since the WR has cleared the corner out, Bennett is very open. This is like stealing. Well designed, good execution. The Giants are now in the redzone.

eleventh play: This is a coverage sack. The line gives Eli enough time to throw, but the routes are slower developing (with no quick routes for checkdowns) and Eli takes the sack rather than risk an interception in the red zone. Smart play by Eli.

Twelfth play: Eli hits Brown on a 7 yard out from the backfield. Good play to make it a manageable third and short.

Thirteenth play: Eli has Cruz open for an easy first down but chooses Bennett in the end zone. He connects with Bennett, but Bennett is ruled out of bounds. This was a very well designed play as multiple receivers are open and was extremely close to being a touchdown. This is just bad luck as opposed to poor execution.



That's the end of the half. Final thoughts:

Eli looked terrific the entire half. I don't remember him having ANY bad throws. Every throw was exactly where it needed to be. Zero turnovers. Made good reads. I didn't watch the second half yet, but I suspect Eli was just getting frustrated and trying to do too much. Eli looked excellent in the first half.




thank you Nyquist!
Optimus-NY : 7:17 am
Excellent read and analysis
Good post.
Britt in VA : 7:27 am
Thanks for taking the time to do that. It definitely shows you that there's so much more going on than just simply "slumping" or being "figured out".
great stuff Nitro
oipolloi : 7:31 am
my only comment would be to add that as soon as the Giants went away from he run and started to pass the ball on the final drive, they moved right down the field. If not for the running play in the green zone--that basically wasted a down--they probably score a TD, which they should have scored anyway if Bennett does not needlessly jump in the air.

The Giants just can't run the ball consistently-especially in the green zone. They need to pass to open up he running game (instead of the other way around). Same as last year. They need to pass the ball more on "running downs" early in the game and then come back to the run after the passing attack is established. So, it is not really the run-pass ratio that needs adjustment. The Giants just have to be less obvious about when they run.

My 13 yr old nephew correctly predicted run/pass on 80% of the plays the last three weeks, his dad just told me. If a kid can do that, what are opposing DCs doing?


oi
NyquistX3 : 7:35 am
I agree with you about passing to set up the run if the run game is lacking. I don't think it's valid to criticize Gilbride for the amount of run plays, though, as Gilbride (to my understanding) calls both a run and pass play in the huddle, and Eli chooses the play at the LOS based on the read.
To add to that last post:
NyquistX3 : 7:40 am
It's important for the Giants to continue to run the ball, though. They cannot become one dimensional. You must keep the defense honest and honoring the run. If you abandon the run entirely, the passing game will become ineffective.
Wow nyquist
Rjanyg : 7:44 am
My fingers hurt and I didn't type that. Very detailed and informative thread.
From the sounds of the line play, it might be better to move Diehl to right guard and bring Locklear in at right tackle. Snee may be hurting badly. I know he was on the injury report and was held out of practice.

As for the receivers, that Cruz play hurts to look at. Looks like both outside receivers are doubled with about 35 yards of green, also looks like pressure on Eli from RDE.

No doubt the Giants have room for improvement. They can't freak out about it but need to start getting on the same page. I would like to see more screens and quicker passes on first down. Getting to 2nd and short is going to help Eli and Gilbride sustain drives and hopefully get into the end zone.
I agree they have to keep running the ball
oipolloi : 8:00 am
But they have to pick their spots better.

They tend to run the ball on too many obvious running downs to start the game.


Also, they run on first and second down in the green zone and then go into the shotgun on third and one.
Outstanding work, Nyquist.
Exit 172 : 8:05 am
I feel like starting a new thread telling everyone to read THIS thread.

That coaches film being available is pretty great, huh?
Great stuff
Moondwg : 8:12 am
thanks for this, man.
Looks like
SBlue46 : 8:15 am
80 and 88 are slot WR's w/ their pyhsical
abilities now. We need 87 , 13, 82 to go deep
and draw off Double coverage from them.
On O line you got Snee,Benn, and Diehl playing
injured so 35 and 22 in the backfield with
a little roll out or play action when Eli is getting
pressure w/ Benn, 80, and 88 playing short in a hurry
up O would get some momentum IMO
really great breakdown
Victor in CT : 8:31 am
THANKS!!
i think Snee has a recurring injury
oipolloi : 8:33 am
maybe a disc or lower back problem

it's been the same things for the last 3 years: he has a stretch in which he looks like the old Snee and then all of a sudden, he starts having major problems

Very, very well done,
sexymoves : 8:36 am
I agree that KG called a much better game than the last 2, this was all on the players poor exicution. I do recall a play where Cruz had a double move in a 1 on 1 situation and would have had a easy TD because he toasted his man, but Eli was zoned in on Bennet I think and didnt see it. Have about our defense ultimately this is the unit I am most concerned with. Keep up the great work.
how does an offense exploit a defense on a run blitz?
Dave : 8:47 am
if wilson goes in the game and the defense run blitzes, what is the weak spot that the offense can exploit?
Excellent breakdown
giant24 : 8:51 am
Snee was complaining because the DT had a handful of his face mask and was giving Snee a good neck stretch.

Where do you get coach's tape of the game?
"I thought David Diehl played...
M.S. : 9:21 am
...pretty well."

--Coach Tom Coughlin
NyquistX3
Eric from BBI : 9:31 am
One of the best posts of the year. Thank you.
Nyquist,
Simms11 : 9:31 am
nice job and great analysis. Very imformative read. It appears that it's not the fact that they are running on certain downs, but it seems to be poor execution and blocking moreso. If teh coaches are indeed still committed to Diehl, then they have to get him more help. In my mind, that limits teh offense in some ways.
oipolloi :
Eric from BBI : 9:32 am
Snee really injured his ankle. He missed two days of practice last week and was questionable for the game.
Nice job
Johnny5 : 9:34 am
NYQuist. What a great read.
Giants don't have
PEEJ : 9:34 am
a viable option at interior OL.
The common theme here lately is the thought process....
Britt in VA : 9:34 am
that somehow Coughlin or the other coaches want to somehow sabotage the season with their personel choices.

That somehow they are keeping Diehl, or Bradshaw, or Nicks in to spite somebody, or are not trying to win.

It's just not that simple. Each of those guys is one cog in the machine, where if one thing goes wrong, everything goes wrong. They are calculated decisions based on a TON of information and possibilities.

I am 100% sure the coaches are making decisions based on what they think gives them the best chance to win, bottom line. Whether we agree with them or not, they want to win, period.
thansk for that
Les in TO : 9:41 am
clearly, diehl is done...both in the running game and passing game, he is a huge liability. if you see that, then the coaches are seeing it too. snee also had a rough game as he does from time to time against fast tackles.

as green bay can tell you from the playoff game last year, drops are drive killers and there were quite a few of them especially in the second half.

Eli in retrospect had a solid first half, and then he started pressing in the second half when things didn't get going.

hopefully a combination of locklear, rest, recovery and renewed focused will put the Giants back on track.

giants need to start games sharper, it's been a consistent issue this season.
.
Danny Kanell : 9:43 am
Thanks for this post.
.
Danny Kanell : 9:46 am
And I know it's not Eli's style but I saw him get clearly frustrated at the lack of protection. He knows it's Diehl. This is where he needs to quietly go speak to his coach in private and give his input. Maybe he has but there is no possible way Diehl should be getting the majority of the snaps any longer.
Thanks for that Nyquist
Andy in Halifax : 9:46 am
I disagree with you on one point though. The pass to Bennett in the end zone was a poor play by Bennett. He didn't need to jump at all to make that catch. He's catching that ball below his shoulders, without a jump its probably eye level. Really poor play by Bennett there (and a rather big difference in the game really). Even if he does want to jump, he's got to jump vertical and not laterally.

But overall, tremendous effort to watch that again - not an easy task I'm sure. Thanks for the effort.
Where do I begin...
Joey in VA : 9:48 am
Nyquist...yours...

Quote:
Third play: This is another well designed play that would have been a terrific gain if it was blocked properly. This time, Diehl makes his block and passes the end to Bennett, who displays awful technique in blocking the end. Bennett, instead of putting his hat inside on the end, put his hat to the outside, allowing the end to penetrate down the line and make the tackle. If Bennett makes this block, the play is a 10 yard gain with potential for more instead of a 3 yard gain.


This is a prime example of a defense "figuring it out" on film. Poor execution isn't just a product of one person not doing the right thing, you are in one on one situations in football, and winning those battles usually results in quality play. If Bennett misses the block, why? Did he forget his technique, forget the play? Maybe, but he was lights out early in the year. So, a defender watches a play on tape, sees how its blocked and knows where Bennett wants to take him so he controls the gap the play is designed to go in and negates the play.

This is football, not golf or basketball where you can be alone with your target (the hole or the basket). Poor execution is a by product of good execution and film study on the other side. This is why you hear about "adjustments" at halftime or later in a game or a drive. Those little tiny things we don't see or notice on TV are what make plays work or not work. Sayiing someone is tired or doesn't play hard or seems hurt is fine but the reality is that you're facing an opponent who has studied you and what you do well.

When that opponent identifies WHAT works, they work to stop it from working further by countering your plan with one of their own. This is precisely why plays run from similar formations with different end results (run or pass form the same set for example) throw defense for such a loop. You want to know why guys are wildly out of position or completely bite on a fake? They see something, they are anticipating what it is and going to stop it. If it's NOT what they thought you get a big gain and it happens through out each game.

At this point what we do well has been scouted and solutions have worked so now we have to tweak a bit and we will. All of this talk of poor execution (Diehl aside, he sucks now) usually results from the other team having a counter to your plan and winning one on one battles. That's really all it is. If you want to put it plainly, it's teams adjusting and figuring us out....it really is and I'm sorry if that sounds too plain but the its the laymens answer to what's really going on.

Nyquist does a good job of identifying what failed but his why is only 50% there...the other side knows your gap, knows your play and has a plan to negate it, that's why a guy who Bennett rode inside in week 1 may leverage outside to prevent it in week 10.
Britt i dont think there is one person
sexymoves : 9:49 am
On this website who thinks the coaches are purposely trying sabotage the team. What a lot of us do feel is on a week to week basis they sometimes make bad tactical decisions that cost the team. Why do we continue to play a defense play in a soft zone/ read and react scheme that is getting gashed for more big plays than any other team in the league. Why are we the worst short yardage team, and one of the worst red zone teams. Why is David Dheil starting over Locklear? They need to do a much better job of putting this team in a better position to be successful. Period.
Nyquist
MD Giant Fan : 9:50 am
Great analysis! Is there a site where coaches tapes are able to be viewed?
Nice job.
Randy in CT : 9:52 am
Snee was complaining about a hands to the face which IIRC, was blatant.

Interesting observations which negate some of what I got out of the game first time around.
Thanks
GregN : 9:56 am
for the effort you took too put that together. Enjoyed reading it.
Hmm, really good points Joey
Johnny5 : 9:56 am
That seems logical enough. I have to say, my biggest problem with the offense, not knowing enough about scheming, who is missing blocks, were we out-schemed or figured out etc... is... Why are they not running Brown more. And why the PHUCQUE are they playing Diehl over Locklear. I have always been a Diehl fan, but it just seems insane to me that the staff would make the decision to start Diehl over Locklear at this point.
If teams expect run
Doomster : 9:57 am
with Wilson in there, then pass to Wilson....take pass blocking out of the equation for him.....he doesn't even have to run a pattern....he just breaks to an open area....

Somewhere along the line, you have to leave him in for a series.....all he has to do is give a chip block, and get out in space on a passing play.....if he's not capable of that, there's something very wrong here....

Great post Nyquist
BB2K5 : 9:59 am
I actually think that the Giants need to run the ball more. In the Giants best game this year vs San Fran, Eli threw 28 times & they ran the ball 34 times. When the Giants run the ball effectively their offense has been at their best. This will also loosen up the coverage on the Wr's

Also from that picture it sure looks like the defender is making contact on Cruz beyond 5 yards.
Nyquist.....
Doomster : 10:01 am
Obviously you are missing something, as far as Diehl is concerned....he can't be that bad, or Tom Coughlin would not have him out there.....would he?
good
AnishPatel : 10:01 am
Job. I always like seeing fans who take the time to create a comprehensive post like this. Good job! I like these types of posts are the best on BBI and I know personally I love reading posts of this quality. Props to you!
Nyquist,
Jim in Forest Hills : 10:01 am
terrific post, great observations.
Joey..
NyquistX3 : 10:04 am
your overall point is well taken. I don't think it's simply a matter of "they've adjusted to us, this is why player X failed on his block", though. To some degree, yeah, that is present but not on everything. Specifically, the Bennett play; I don't agree at all that this was just a case of the end being coached up about how to attack Bennett. Bennett has a very clear path to take inside leverage and he simply misses. It's not a brilliant adjustment by the defensive end. Diehl blocks the end, passes him to Bennett to slide down the line, and Bennett isn't aggressive enough in getting to the inside and gets beat inside. That's what happened on that play.
Great read.
Beez : 10:07 am
Thanks Nyquist.

So, I guess the coahces also see Diehl being abused out there.

How much evidence is necessary to make the change?
Specifically, this quote:
NyquistX3 : 10:08 am
Quote:
If Bennett misses the block, why? Did he forget his technique, forget the play?


I think he got complacent with his block and didn't attack inside leverage aggressively enough. He thought he had the leverage, but the end crashed down harder inside than Bennett anticipated.
Great job
noro9 : 10:09 am
Thanks
not to be redundant
JCin332 : 10:10 am
but that was an incredible post..I want to email to my family and friends who are not on BBI..thanks for putting in the time..
This quote..
NyquistX3 : 10:13 am
Quote:
All of this talk of poor execution (Diehl aside, he sucks now) usually results from the other team...winning one on one battles.


I agree 100%, and that's really all execution is. In order for a play to be executed properly, each player involved in the core of the play needs to do their job, their 1/11th of the play.
Great stuff, Ny...
rnargi : 10:14 am
And case to Joey's point:

When Cincy faked the pitch to Green-Ellis on 1st and 10 on the fifth play of the first drive, S Stevie Brown bit as hard as anyone can and drove down in the box leaving his commitment to help Webster over the top on A.J. Green. Result? Easiest touchdown possible. There was no doubt in my mind at the time that Brown was positive he'd seen that play on tape and was going to stop Ellis in the backfield for a loss.
well, if you want spread
alligatorpie : 10:25 am
Nicks...Barden(flex)

Beatty/Boothe/Baas/Snee/Lock/Bennet

...Cruz(slot) ......Wilson (wide)
Great read, Nyquist.
Riggies : 10:27 am
.
or go old school with Hynowski and Wilson
alligatorpie : 10:27 am
so Hyno can take blocking assigments as needed and wilson can move around if beneficial prior to snap to flex, wide, or just run it or help hyno block
or put wilson in the flex/slot/wide
alligatorpie : 10:29 am
and use brown as the lone setback.

but only 3 total on line 'rec's'
Wow.
vibe4giants : 10:32 am
That was awesome. Thank you.
Very well done
T-Bone : 10:41 am
NyquistX3!
I get that the coaches dont fully trust
SimpleMan : 10:54 am
Wilson in pass blocking, so that limits his playing time. But on the same token, why do they send Diehl out there to get abused every play? They somehow trust him? Anyone can see Diehl is nothing more than a liability at this point.
Doomster..
NyquistX3 : 10:56 am
Quote:
Nyquist.....
Doomster : 10:01 am
Obviously you are missing something, as far as Diehl is concerned....he can't be that bad, or Tom Coughlin would not have him out there.....would he?


I think TC has a strong degree of trust in Diehl because he knows Diehl will rarely, if ever, miss an assignment, while someone like Locklear has only been here for 7 months and TC doesn't have the same degree of trust. I think TC is hoping that Diehl's mental strengths can make up for whatever physical weaknesses he's displaying right now, and there is probably some degree of loyalty as well; Diehl helped TC win two Super Bowls, so TC is going to exhaust every avenue to get Diehl fixed before taking his job away.

I wouldn't worry about it long term. TC will not let loyalty interfere with wins and losses; if he deems that Locklear is superior to Diehl at this time, he'll make the change.
SimpleMan..
NyquistX3 : 11:02 am
Quote:
I get that the coaches dont fully trust
SimpleMan : 10:54 am
Wilson in pass blocking, so that limits his playing time. But on the same token, why do they send Diehl out there to get abused every play? They somehow trust him? Anyone can see Diehl is nothing more than a liability at this point.


That's a good point, but Diehl and Wilson are two different cases. Yes, they're both protection related, but Diehl's weakness has been physical, while Wilson's weakness is mental. TC is hoping that he can get Diehl going physically, but his time is running out.
ood. Next question,
chops : 11:04 am
where is the D Line?
Great job, Nyq and thanks.
Big Blue '56 : 11:04 am
Question i've had for awhile: Eli and TC are glued to the hip. Eli is clearly our franchise, no one else is even close and that includes JPP, imo.

Don't you think if Diehl is as bad as people say, Eli would go to TC and say, "Coach, DD is getting me killed. I'm getting more hits than normal from that side and it's contributing in part to my mechanics being off somewhat." You don't think TC, who eats, breathes and sleeps winning, wouldn't strongly consider a change? I'm sure Belichick, Fox and whomever is coaching the Saints would consider that as well..
Great Stuff
BIG FRED : 11:05 am
Thanks .These are the types of threads i love on this site
Great post.
NJGiantFan84 : 11:10 am
Thanks.
Not sure if this was mentioned but the play Snee
MikeN in Ottawa : 11:19 am
was complaining about was a rather obvious hands to the face from the Cincy DT. It should have been called. Even though the Fox guys did not comment on it, the replay clearly showed it. It may have happened on another play as well. I think this is the result of the umpire being in the offensive backfield. DTs are getting away with this stuff while we were called at least twice on this...on the O-line. I suspect because it is easy to see where as it used to be easy to see when the umpire was behind the MLB.
Mike..
NyquistX3 : 11:21 am
That makes sense. I did not see the TV feed, I had Papa on during the live feed.
Good stuff thanks
JOrthman : 11:22 am
.
Nyquist -
Exit 172 : 11:31 am
If you have the willingness and ability to do this kind of (time-consuming) Xs and Os breakdown on a regular basis, I would love to read it, and it would add a ton of value to BBI.

As far as Xs and Os are concerned, you are about as good as I've seen on BBI.
excellent stuff, thank you Nyquist
ColHowPepper : 11:38 am
And Mike in Ottawa - saw exactly what you saw on the Snee complaint, he was gesturing with his hand to his chin/throat that the DL was "hands to the face", but Snee's problems are beyond that. sad.

Nyquist, may have been covered above, but on your analysis of the play on which Cruz had one-on-one coverage in the slot and Eli was salivating before going to Nicks (Cruz not getting off the physical coverage), it looks as though in the accompanying still shot that pressure from Bengal RDE was just about to get to Eli forcing him to release, just as Cruz may have been gaining separation, but too late. Maybe Beatty?

All in all, a very enlightening, if sobering, analysis, and casts somewhat different light on Eli, at least 1H. Flaherty has his work cut out for him.

This goes back to the glaring issue of no OL depth that was so painfully exposed in the NEng exhibition game. This is a very significant roster issue (in addition to play of DL, some CBs) that can't any longer be foisted off on mid- or late-round developmental picks. Where is that tuba player with the "excellent feet"?
Exit,
AnishPatel : 11:40 am
Xs and Os threads are the best to read and its fun to break down. However the time it takes is a pain in the ass. It used to take me a week and that was recording the game on VHS. If this guy has the time, it would be nice to see someone continue a thread with an Xs and Os type thread. To me those arethe best threads to read.
Nyquist
Joey in VA : 11:41 am
But WHY did the end come harder inside? If he thinks the play is on the Bennett's outside and plays that gap the play works. If he's just lining up as the defense dictates out of a base formation and he's guessing that split second is enough for Bennett to make the block, but if he knows he can crash harder and throw Bennett off.

I don't buy players just getting complacent or lazy blocking, it's far too dangerous to half ass it in the trenches. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one because poor play on our side can look far far worse if its a play we've run 20 times and been successful 20 times, it becomes automatic but if the defense KNOWS it before hand they have the upper hand and you step trhough your paces assuming it will work and you get blown up. It may be poor preparation on Bennett's part or poor anticipation. Physical errors usually result from not being sure of what you're doing or being so sure the defender will react a certain way that you anticipate it and play accordingly.

It sounds like splitting hairs I guess and I'm not fundamentally disagreeing, I saw tons of poor execution but the question is why. Lazy or unmotivated isn't why, poorly prepared, poor recognition or being a victim of success and assuming it will work are the reasons why.

The reason I am beating on this point is because we have a problem to fix and how do you fix it? Tell Bennett to try harder? Tell Bradshaw to not fumble? No, that's understood, you study the film, see what broke down and make the mental adjustment next time. Seeing a DE only go outside your shoulder on a given play enough times, it becomes routine...until that player doesn't do what you anticipate. There is a constant guessing game from play to play and second to second and those who guess wrong usually lose.
BB '56..
NyquistX3 : 11:41 am
I'm sure TC is considering a change, but for the reasons I said above, is holding off for now. He's hoping Diehl straightens himself out physically, because Diehl's mental game is top notch. He's running out of time, though.
That was an excellent post.
Shockeyisthebest80 : 11:42 am
...
ColHow..
NyquistX3 : 11:48 am
That play was 100% on Cruz. He was stuck on the defensive back for a long time. I give no blame to the offensive line on that play. A top receiver like Cruz needs to do a much better job of getting a faster release.
Joey..
NyquistX3 : 11:53 am
I agree with most of what you said. The reason why I think Bennett's missed block was due to some degree of complacency was because he's displayed a lot of LOAFs so far in his Giant career and was labeled as "lazy" in Dallas. He has a track record. I've watched him give up on routes when he thinks he's not getting the ball, and if he thinks he's blocking the back side of a running play I wouldn't be stunned to hear that he gave less than 100%. Either way, he was in position to make the block and missed, for whatever reason.
Good job Nyquist
mrvax : 11:56 am
Summary:
Gilbride drew up mostly outstanding plays.
Eli had a terrific first half, almost flawless.
Cruz had better improve his blocking and separation skills.
Snee is struggling bigtime.
Diehl should be used only as an emergency backup.

Hope this gets cleared up fast. Swapping Locklear & Diehl will help a lot.
To poster
weaverpsu : 11:58 am
Snee was complaining because the defender had his hands underneath his facemask for way to long and didn't get called. Obvious penalty.
Oh yeah and Nyquist
mrvax : 11:58 am
That was a good job on X's and O's because even I could understand it.
gotcha,
ColHowPepper : 11:58 am
my comment on the OL generally was not meant to pertain to the Cruz play but to the play of DD (and, it seems, old #76), with no better options available.

As to Cruz, it's a bit hard to figure why he can't get free off the line: he's ripped, strong, athletic, and nimble, albeit only really a second year player (ignoring his year on IR). Is it coaching or is he not focused or just beaten by that DB? Another riddle that needs to be solved.
Colhow
mrvax : 12:03 pm
If I were Cruz, I'd learn from Nicks and Coughlin exactly how to create separation on each play he struggled with. If he can get open a bit, he is a destructive force.
Cruz just got beat on that play.
NyquistX3 : 12:04 pm
I haven't spent a ton of time watching coaches film on Cruz but you don't reach the level he's reached without knowing how to beat press coverage on a consistent basis. He's probably great at it on most plays. He just had a bad route. Sometimes you get locked up trying to out fake the defender and get murked. It happens.
mrvax
NyquistX3 : 12:06 pm
I don't know if I'd term it like that; Cruz is great, I just noticed one really bad play from him. It happens sometimes, those CBs are world class at what they do as well. Snee is playing injured, so he gets a pass.

Also, this post is just what I saw from my perspective; I'm not an NFL coach. My evaluation could be off on some plays, so don't take everything I wrote as absolute gospel. I'm pretty confident I'm right, though.
In the last few weeks....
Reb8thVA : 12:12 pm
Cruz has gone up against some physical corners in Dallas and Pittsburgh. I'm not sure how the Bengals secondary matches up.
Cruz's problem
Joey in VA : 12:20 pm
Is that despite his sturdy frame, he's not a physical player, he's 100% quickness and finesse. He doesn't respond well to physical play, unlike Nicks who thrives on it. If you keep bumping him enough he slows down a bit and braces for impact instead of fighting through it.

I am a huge fan of his ability but at times I question his toughness.
Reb
Joey in VA : 12:23 pm
Clements and Leon Hall are very very physical, it's the same animal.
and you know Locklear will help alot how?
HomerJones45 : 12:24 pm
Seems to me that on several of the plays where Diehl is getting blamed, it was Snee allowing inside pressure that didn't allow Eli to step up. And on running plays, it was Bennett not making his block.

Not saying he is playing great ball, but he has become the BBI WBOY.
Nyquist
Joey in VA : 12:33 pm
I think I can boil down what I'm saying here more easily. Are the plays solid? Yes. Are the play calls solid? Fundamentally, yes. Is the execution lacking? Yes...now why?

Bear with the overly simple example. For the sake of argument, imagine every morning your job is to shuffle a deck of cards after your boss says "Nyquist, please shuffle this deck, you have the best dexterity in the company". You stink at shuffling cards because you never have so you focus and practice and and after about 30 days it's routine and you don't think, you hear the command and you just do.

Now on day 31, someone sprays WD-40 on the cards and you shoot them all over the room. You have shuffled cards, you know you have to, you know its the right thing to do but a variable was introduced and you flubbed it. What do you do next time? Pick them more carefully, do what you know how but more conscientiously and you'll be fine. Your job hasn't changed, it's still fundamentally correct to shuffle the cards and your boss is right in having you do so but a new variable came in and forked up your operation.

Now think about 11 guys doing that for 65 plays a game and how many opportunities there are to stink. Your execution falters when conditions change, like rain when driving versus driving on dry pavement but you adjust and focus and you do the same job under different circumstances. It's having to pay closer attention and being more deliberate and football players are creatures of habit so to break it, you have to throw in little wrinkles to keep them engaged or they go on auto pilot physically.

And I am in NO WAY talking down to you or anyone with that example or trying to prove you wrong because you are correct in what you saw. It's solving why you saw it that confronts Coughlin and company now. He has to re-focus them and adjust in tiny places to what the opponents are throwing at us now.
Thanks
Simms : 12:35 pm
Thank you very much for your time and effort in sharing with your posts.

Its very enjoyable and helps update.

Thanks again and best regards.
Thanks for the clear and detailed analysis.
Ira : 12:39 pm
Threads like this make bbi great.
Great stuff
ZogZerg : 12:39 pm
Snee and turnstile Deihl not helping the offense. Or the drop passes. You really need to blame Coughlin for keeping Deihl in the game.

Very frustrating to watch this train wreck. If coughlin continues to be a stubborn mule it's going to be a long rest of the season.
Excellent Breakdown Nyquist and well written
nicky43 : 1:04 pm
I think we clearly see the problem on our line is on the right side where unfortunately we have two players playing injured in Diehl and Snee.

We had a lot of success earlier in the year when Gilbride was using what he called THE BIG TIGHT END with Locklear in and using Diehl in the TE position for added blocking protection. Just the fact that they would resort to such a play tells me they know they are weak on the right side. I say, go back to using that play then.
Thank you NyquistX3
gidiefor : 1:18 pm
even a Mook like me could understand that - you put a tremendous amount of work into that!

Totally excellent
Great and Thank you...BUT
gmen4ever : 1:22 pm
We lost, badly. Second half was awful. Eli was not good in the 2nd half either. I am still VERY disappointed with this team right now, O, D and STs. Can't get too excited about just the first half. We continue to play like this, we won't win another game. I know we are still in first and I certainly don't expect us to be 16-0. But with this team and coaches, I do expect us to play more consistently then we have the past 4 weeks.
One thing I felt watching the game live
Kevin_in_Pgh : 1:25 pm
and I think this backs it up (though correct me if I'm wrong) is that the Giants would be better off with more quick-hitting pass plays. I don't think we can count on Eli's protection holding up for slow-developing routes as often as those plays are called.

So, while Nyquist often concludes that execution is the problem, I would say that at least part of the problem is that the play-calling assumes execution that can't be counted on as often as is necessary.
Great job Nyquist thanks!
BlueLou : 1:29 pm
Thanks to the mods too or whoever stickyed this outstanding thread.
Wow
Mayo : 3:00 pm
that's amazing! I was at the game and all I saw were alot of three & outs, no protection and no running game. Plus the fact that this analysis is only on the offensive side of the ball. If you analyze our defense, it won't sound very promising.
Nyquist
Matt M. : 3:21 pm
Amazing job. Thank you for sharing this. This is truly on of the finest threads ever. The level of thought and detail and understanding of the plays made this an extremely interesting and useful read.
On the second drive
jmac13 : 3:23 pm
sack on 3rd down. The Giants had Bennett, Randle, Cruz to the right. It looked like Eli wanted to go to Randle but Randle didn't look back for the ball. Cruz and Bennet had already made their cuts and were looking for the ball. It just looked like Eli wanted to get rid of the ball quicker and Randle wasn't looking at him.
nyquist, did you email this to Paul Schwartz at the Post?
Victor in CT : 3:29 pm
if not please do, then maybe he'll have a clue as to what is going on with them because his column today was clueless.

Again, great job and thanks for taking the time to do it.
Joey..
NyquistX3 : 4:29 pm
I see nothing wrong with that post to argue with, they're sound points. Thanks for your contributions to the thread.
steve smith was very good
Neverend : 5:05 pm
at blocking the blitzing slot corner before going out on his route
OK, I just realized a fuck up on my part.
NyquistX3 : 5:12 pm
So before everyone keeps telling me how great this thread is, I made a pretty embarrassing error early in the thread.

Notice how I said "this looks like a carbon copy of the previous play"? That's because it IS! I'm such a shithead. The second and third drives were identical, I rewatched the same plays over again and mistook them for separate drives (except the Hixon play, which was included in the third drive, was excluded from the second drive).

How did this happen? I watched the second drive, paused for a few hours, came back and rewatched it again somehow thinking it was the third drive (and making brand new observations in the process the second time around that I missed the first time, such as Bennett's hat placement, as you can see in the descriptions).

This changes: Diehl has one less bad run block, and Diehl/Snee have one less bad pass block. That's it. Still an embarrassing error. I apologize.

Summary: take the entire "second drive" and throw it out. Re-label the "third drive" the "second drive" and so forth.

Sorry about this mistake. I watched this late last night. Give me a pass on this one.
Regardless,
shepherdsam : 5:22 pm
Great thread Nyquist, thanks for writing it up.
nah,
ColHowPepper : 5:24 pm
fail! (:& gt;.

No less appreciation, thanks, and wonder at your stellar effort. (and to err is human, right, which is what we're seeing on the OL, as well as over-the-hill-itis at RT (and maybe RG--I hope not)).
wish
dorgan : 6:21 pm
I could type better right now, but for now I'll just say,
"good job".

Had some hand surgery and can't elaborate without taking an hour or so.


dorgan...
NyquistX3 : 6:23 pm
Any errors that you noticed? (yes or no answer, don't want to hurt your hand!)
Dorgan better not comment on any dropped passes ------
Phil in Joisey : 6:36 pm
After all, he's the one with the bad hands.
don't know
dorgan : 6:37 pm
haven't had the time to rewatch game.

Been a bad two weeks for me and the Giants.
nfc east standings
davematt122 : 6:57 pm
http://gothamsports.blogspot.com/2012/11/the-changing-landscape-of-nfc-east.html
Thanks Nyq
ChathamMark : 6:59 pm
awesome stuff.
Va Tech's offense in college was very simple
BigBlueCane : 8:30 pm
and depended on a highly mobile QB. It had a very basic passing game.

-Dump to the RB.
-TE.
-WR who runs track in the offseason but can't catch, running the deep ball.

I know Wilson has a lot to grasp but they can still adjust and give him things he can do.
Ain't no bye week for Nyquist.
CT Charlie : 9:00 pm
GREAT post!
wow....nice
SGMen : 11:18 pm
Execution. That is football.


Snee wanted a hands to the face on the play you mention his complaint  
mort christenson : 11/15/2012 12:17 am : link
to the ref. Atkins clearly got his hands up high and jacked him up. That's why he was knocked back so easily.
disagree  
Neverend : 11/15/2012 12:24 am : link
about the wilson part

i highly doubt teams are so well scouted on the giants that when they see wilson come into the game, the linebackers on the team all simutaneously blitz knowing the giants wont pass. thats just silly

they probably filled the gaps aggressively more because of the formation and personnel package. that play screamed run 100%, not because of the number on the runners jersey
Nyq  
HomerJones45 : 11/15/2012 1:10 am : link
well done and thanks a million!
You just want another sticky! ;)  
Big Blue '56 : 11/15/2012 7:38 am : link
Once again, thanks a ton
attention whore!  
Moondwg : 11/15/2012 9:06 am : link
(jk)
In the fifth drive,  
Exit 172 : 11/15/2012 9:25 am : link
you refer to Nicks as Hicks.

Start the thread over! And apologize, dammit!
hopefully you have time to  
AnnapolisMike : 11/15/2012 10:14 am : link
analyze the second half. Excellent Job! Thanks.
Sad,  
Doomster : 11/15/2012 11:25 am : link
to see the KC Chiefs stop the Steeler running attack and contain their wr's.....
Big Ben missing the entire 2nd half  
MetsAreBack : 11/15/2012 11:28 am : link
had a little something to do with that. But rant away Doomster!
Back to the Corner