Mike Shanahan lied when he said RG3 was cleared to return...

or too young to know. And if that's the case then it was a bad decision by Parcells, results notwithstanding.

I judge decisions not by how they turn out, but by the reasoning that goes into them. The world has too many damned variables to think that we can just justify decisions by pointing to the results after the fact. Responsibility and decision making entail proper judgment.

to justify putting him back in, essentially deflecting the blame to someone else (like a doctor, who didn't approve anything). That would be a key difference there, chief.

this isn't a matter of the Giants being a "classy organization". This is just you trying to play devil's advocate and relish whatever intellectual high you get from it.

Take the Nats with Strasburg this year. I thought their decision was terrific. I thought the White Sox were irresponsible with Chris Sale.

I've thought Andy Reid has been incredibly irresponsible with Vick, as much as I hate the scumbag. I've already made my thoughts clear about the Nick's situation.

...only two thoughts come to mind:

(1) They are a better football team than the New York Giants;

(2) The teaming of two very young studs -- RG3 and Alfred Morris -- bodes extremely well for this team over the next decade.

Non story here, haha. Nothing to see here, folks, move along.

again, making up the conversation is weird. I don't know what it accomplishes.

Review the facts that we know are true.

1. RG3 gets hurt.
2. Doesn't let anyone examine him and re-enters the game after one play.
3. Exits the game for good after 3 more plays.
4. Is "shut-down" by Andrews for the game the next week
5. Is Active the next week (apparently Andrews agreed for him to be active, since it was Andrews who shut him down the week before)


So, what did Shanahan do that was so awful or detrminental to the player? I can't think of anything.

The making up of a conversation that didn't happen is awful, and makes Shanahan a liar, but I'm not sure the motive or what it accomplishes.

That's all, I hope the Redskins lose today by 20 points, and I don't like the Keebler elf, but I don't share some of your outrage over this incident.

Assuming we know all the facts.

if for example Shanahan prevented anyone from looking at RG3 that would be different, but this sounds to me like a player being anxious to enter a game and did so, and was then removed.

thats what I think of

professional reputation at stake here, not just the perks of being a sideline doctor. As arguably being one of the world foremost orthopedic experts, the sideline gig is small potatoes and the Skins and their players may need him more than he needs them. So good for him.

When people cannot decipher between right & wrong

we'll agree to disagree on this, but if I'm a coach and I see my franchise QB get his knee twisted by 350 lbs of Samoan might, limp and hop and try to get back into the game and my doctors show tremendous concern, then I hop and stop Bob or call a damn TO (don't know if they had any TO's so this might be a moot point).

The lying part is terrible because it shows a coach who is not willing to take responsibility for the things he does and instead tries to CYA. Yes, it's a human flaw, but if you're the leader of my team, I worry about what constitutes that "leadership".

recklessly puts Dr. Andrew's reputation and career at risk, without regard for any kind of professional integrity or honesty, whatsoever. That is the main thing wrong with this story. Dr. Andrews obviously recognized that and felt obligated to speak out because of it. The fact that Bob went back into the game without being examined and/or cleared as a result is another thing, not without its own questions and issues.

There was very little if any caution taken in the Parcells days. If you could walk and your arms haven't fallen off, you played. Stupid, but the prevailing mindset of the times, unfortunately. Now, they're implementing many safeguards with some perhaps being too reactive, imo. We'll see how that unfolds...

who took RG3 out after 3 plays? I assume it was Shanahan.

Sounds like this was the scenario to me.

RG3 was injured, Cousins entered the game. Shanahan is probably concerning himself with the game, and what plays to run, how to adjust the offense with Cousins.

After 1 play RG3 re-entered the game (sounds like from what Andrews says on his own), after 3 plays Rg3 is removed from the game.

Shanahan lied about it, but from the sounds of it, RG3 did it on his own, so what I think Shanahan is guilty of is letting a player dictate if he can go back in the game and seems like he didn't want to admit that so lied about it.

Either way, I don't care to argue it anymore, so yeah we can agree to disagree even though I don't feel strongly. If people want to crush the Redskins and Shanahan for this and prop up the Giants - go ahead.

Ronnie Lott would still have his finger in today's NFL, back then, cutting it off because it was broken was a valid solution.

Ummm, BBI wasn't around in 1987. Other than that, nice try. You sound fucking stupid bro. Every single time a coach or player does something stupid, you call out Parcells and LT from 20 fucking years ago to try to tell Giants fans that we aren't allowed to have discussions about anything or anyone because Parcells and LT had some issues. Just stop. Because LT played with a separated shoulder, or because Hostetler only sat out one play with a banged up knee 20 years ago doesn't have a thing to do with a damn thing. No matter how many times you bring it up.

and I rarely play that card.

I have an issue with Shanahan because he was reckless and irresponsible and displayed terrible leadership. You disagree, and that's fine.

Nevertheless, I hate Bob with a passion, but I think duty is duty and when someone doesn't discharge their duties appropriately, then that's a serious problem.

what's to prop up about the Giants?

gerbil.

to injuries than other staffs are..

that too.

not to mention his exophthalmic-like eyes

Holy crap, if that happened today?

People would be losing jobs over it.

nothing, but some people use this as a way to say the Giants care more about player safety than other teams and exercise more caution than others.

I think it's pretty much the same everywhere. Normally when doctors clear a guy to play he plays.

practically every coach and GM realize this is a what have you done for me lately business and wins are hard to come by, so when the medical staff doesn't say this guy absolutely can't play they play them.

Especially more now that concussions are so much in the media and the NFL handling of them in the past is so scrutinized and proven to be so widespread among retired player health issues.

here.

Who specifically used this to prop up the Giants?

like apples and oranges. It's more like comparing apples and neutron stars.

yummy.

Shanahan completely fabricated a story and a medical opinion of a professional doctor...Doctor James Andrews. How is that not comprehensible to some?...That is the problem. If anything that is the number one underlying problem to me. If you were a highly respected Doctor would that be okay? No it would never be okay. You can't just make shit up about what someone said and not worry about repercussions or people questioning your methods.



But, does anyone wonder why this is a story three weeks later? That is what I am curious about...

I feel like this is sort of carry over from all of the Eagles stuff.

He does look like he just crawled out of Richard Gere's ass.

blame this on John Mara..

section of PFT and on the thread on this over at Extremeskins, some of them do just that.

I'm shocked ! Shocked, I say !

If Shanahan's veneers are moving he's lying.

I never once mentioned those scenarios here before...ever. My point still remains. Shanahan may be an asshole for lots of reasons, but to get on him for sending his QB back into the game? Really? My point is that the Giants have also done that for generations. I reached back that far because that particular situation (LT) was tied to the best Giant ever.

If you dont like me going back that far, then how about Bradshaw? We will never know how many times he played on a knee or foot when he shouldn't have...because a doctor is not calling out Coughlin right now.

This is the NFL and it happens on every team. If you dont think it does then...you sound stupid "bro".

and Coughlin at Jacksonville.
Link - ( New Window )

on here better not read that link

You are COMPLETELY missing the entire point of this thread. It is about Shanahan lying about Dr. Andrews and making up a conversation that didn't exist. It's not about putting a player in a game when he's banged up. Now, keep googling and I'm sure you'll be able to find an instance where Ray Perkins lied to the media, and threw the team doctor under the bus in the process. Then, you can make your own thread and well discuss that instance. But this thread is about Shanahan and him lying about a well respected doctor. Not the Giants.

after going completely silent when his strawman argument about propping the Giants up was shot down.

and this story is that Coughlin did not blatantly lie, and make up a conversation with the doctor in regards to the player that did not exist.

But again, contrary to the strawman argument that this thread is about the Giants, it's not.

I decided people formed their opinions and no facts would change their opinions. So it wasn't worth my time.

the 4th or 5th post of the thread:

Quote:

....if a Giants playoff berth were at stake and a doctor said don't put Eli in because he's not healthy enough to play and it's injurious to him and TC disregarded that recommendation, I would be furious with TC. Football's a game. This a person's health.....

lie is weird at best (since it looks like in the quote it's being relayed by someone else) and inexcusable. I don't understand it.

But from what I read, Shanahan didn't ask or encourage RG3 to go back in the game and didn't undermine any doctors recommendations about sitting him.

Here's the full quote:

Quote:

And before someone from the "shall cast the first stone" Ash : 12:04 pm chimes in; if a Giants playoff berth were at stake and a doctor said don't put Eli in because he's not healthy enough to play and it's injurious to him and TC disregarded that recommendation, I would be furious with TC. Football's a game. This a person's health. How we react to this situation is one of life's IQ tests.

That is the poster's personal opinion, not what he think the Giants would or would not do. Secondly It was also posted to be pre-emptive before the inevitable devil's advocate poster joined the thread, which of course you did a few posts later.

irrelevant at this point.

It is what it is.

I read the entire linked article and never seen where Coughlin lied about a doctor and/or any medical clearance to play. And that is what this thread is about. A coach lying about a team doctor.

enjoy your outrage. I have no idea why Shanahan lied. It's strange and Andrews was right to come forward.

My point about everyone else's outrage on here remains the same, when a doctor says a player can play they'll be on the field. any franchise.

.