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Do you consider Peyton Manning a playoff choker?

Britt in VA : 1/13/2013 1:46 pm
Thought some of the Eli threads had this conversation as an undercurrent and I thought it would be interesting as it's own thread.

Playoff Record as Starting QB: 1999 (0-1), 2000 (0-1), 2002 (0-1), 2003 (2-1), 2004 (1-1), 2005 (0-1), 2006 (4-0), 2007 (0-1), 2008 (0-1), 2009 (2-1), 2010 (0-1), 2012 (0-1)

Playoff Comebacks: 2006 (1)

Playoff Game-Winning Drives: 2006 (1)

2 Superbowl appearances, 1 Championship, 1 MVP

Post any pertinent Peyton Manning playoff numbers or thoughts here.

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The knock on Peyton was that he never had a playoff caliber defense  
SHO'NUFF : 1/13/2013 2:55 pm : link
backing him up, thus the bad playoff record and only one ring...this year, he has one and now it doesn't matter? damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Scotty but in comparing playoff wins and losses  
Mason : 1/13/2013 2:57 pm : link
shouldn't WC games be removed why should the regular season achievements and rewards be dismissed?

The Colts often earned playoff byes while the Giants with Eli only earned one in his career.

It's not exactly apples and oranges but it is certainly a factor.

By the way this goes for all sports. Can't stand comparing homerun stats in a playoffs. Babe Ruth, Mickey Mantle and Reggie Jackson didn't even know what the hell a divisional series was when they played.
That's interesting...  
Britt in VA : 1/13/2013 3:01 pm : link
so perhaps a playoff bye should be counted as a win, or at least half a win? Interesting concept.
dep026 : 1/13/2013 3:02 pm : link
it was also
PaulBlakeTSU : 2:22 pm
9 degrees with a windchill of 0. I don't even know how either quarterback could throw the ball.

Eli was unimpressed with both.
Certainly not  
AnishPatel : 1/13/2013 3:05 pm : link
in proportion to his regular season career. The guy is an immortal QB, and will probably win his 5th MVP. Turn the page to the playoffs and he has a below .500 record.

The committed 3 turnovers yesterday and had a chance to bring his team even in the SB and got picked 6 to seal the game.

That's shit I expect from Tony Romo, not an immortal QB like Peyton Manning. He was my favorite player before Eli came into the league, and I'd take him always in the regular season, but come playoff time, no thanks.
Britt that is how I would look at it  
Mason : 1/13/2013 3:09 pm : link
either remove WC wins or credit byes as automatic wins in comparisons.
If you give partial credit  
Scotty9678 : 1/13/2013 3:10 pm : link

for byes, then his main rival "Brady" looks that much more dominant in comparison.

The only ones comparing Peyton to Eli are Giants fans and maybe Eli at Thanksgiving dinner
Not a dumb question  
bignygfan : 1/13/2013 3:10 pm : link
I don't like that word.

But I will echo what I have seen here - I'd rather have Eli as my QB now than Peyton after watching yesterday, career accomplishments aside.

I was disappointed in Denver's pass rush also. There is no way to be great at D unless you are the Niners. And they gave up some points too.
Great point about playoff byes.  
bceagle05 : 1/13/2013 3:12 pm : link
I've always felt they should count for something. Peyton could've easily padded his numbers and win total in the Wild Card round. That said, he's wasted too many opportunities. If he played in NY he'd get killed for his inconsistency in January.
As far as that final INT...  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/13/2013 3:15 pm : link
Does anyone think that a lot of the blame there should be on Stokely? I do. I've always thought that when a play breaks down, receivers are instructed to come back to the ball. Instead, Stokely broke away from the LOS and allowed the defender to get in between him and Peyton.
To me the Pats, Chargers and Colts used to expend a lot  
Mason : 1/13/2013 3:16 pm : link
just to get byes and it also seem to be in the negative. The year the Colts have to play a WC game, they win it all.
Brady had a BYE in all 5 of the their Super Bowl  
Scotty9678 : 1/13/2013 3:18 pm : link

Granted I know they lost some of the other byes, but the above statement is still valid.
yes yes yes  
grhein8008 : 1/13/2013 3:26 pm : link
How people can deny it is amazing to me. He did not do enough to win. Without the two returns they get trounced. I've always liked Peyton but come playoffs he comes up small. I'm sorry but if it looks like crap and smells like crap then it sure as hell isn't a bouquet of roses. If we are in crap divisions every year of bet my left nut that Deli wouldn't be 9-10 with 8 first round losses. If it was Promo he'd be the laughing stock kind of like he is now.
You're right about Brady,  
bceagle05 : 1/13/2013 3:26 pm : link
which makes his playoff record all the more impressive. To me, that's why Brady was, is and always will be a better QB than Peyton. Both great, but Brady has separated himself in January and February. I know he has Belichick, but players play.
I think Peyton's playoff career has been a combination  
Exit 172 : 1/13/2013 3:28 pm : link
of lower quality play from Peyton and some inexplicable bad luck out of his control.

For example, of course, the brutal safety play on the desperation bomb yesterday. Another example was Jim Caldwell's inexplicable timeout that saved the Jets in Peyton's last game as a Colt. Also, after Bettis fumbled at the goalline in 2005, the Colt defender who recovered the fumble inexplicably ran toward Roethlisberger, allowing the shoestring tackle.

Some weird shit happens in playoff games involving Peyton Manning's teams, I'll tell ya that.
Yeah those Pat teams seem to be the exception to the curse of the bye  
Mason : 1/13/2013 3:28 pm : link
But looking at some of their games, they are squeakers.
Exit the opposite applies to Brady other than against the Giants  
Mason : 1/13/2013 3:30 pm : link
define choker  
chris r : 1/13/2013 3:33 pm : link
otherwise everyone what we're arguing about is as much the definition as it is whether or not Manning meets that definition.
Eli will forever be known in the postseason  
grhein8008 : 1/13/2013 3:36 pm : link
For two of the greatest plays/throws in Superbowl history. Peyton will be remembered for two of the worst picks/decisions.
All QBs  
HBart : 1/13/2013 3:38 pm : link
Are playoff chokers except Eli.
I always counted a bye as a playoff win  
Big Blue '56 : 1/13/2013 3:40 pm : link
in my mind
OMG running QBs!!!  
Mason : 1/13/2013 3:59 pm : link
Brady or Peyton wouldn't consistently get byes in the first round  
SHO'NUFF : 1/13/2013 4:00 pm : link
playing in the NFC East the last 8 years...i would be surprised if they made the playoffs every year, had they played in the NFC East.
Opening round byes should theoretically  
JCin332 : 1/13/2013 4:21 pm : link
give a team the advantage..whether or not you count them as playoff "wins" or not..meaning should translate to more championships..

SanFranGiantsFan : 1/13/2013 4:29 pm : link
But I consider him a subpar playoff QB. The record speaks for itself: 9-11. The man is a legitimate machine September-December, but he's a mere mortal once the second season begins.
it's all relative  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 1/13/2013 4:40 pm : link
The media has been all over Peyton's balls for over a decade now. Ever since Michael Jordan retired, the sports world and media has been trying to find the next athlete of that caliber. Tiger Woods reached that level, got all of the commercials and attention but obviously we know what happened to him.

Outside of Tiger, no athlete has dominated in terms of marketing and media respect like Peyton Manning. He used to be on every other commercials on TV and he's still on a bunch of commercials now. Not only that, but ESPN and a ton of people have shoved down our throats that he's the best QB ever. People forget, but before that Saints Super Bowl game people were preparing to anoint Peyton the GOAT.

But then he choked against the Saints. And he choked yesterday. And he choked often early in his career.

If you go strictly by the regular season, Peyton Manning is arguably the Greatest NFL player of All-Time. He's the NFL's Jordan when it comes to the regular season. But in the post-season he comes up small way too often for such a legendary player.

If LeBron James got shit for being a loser despite only 3 really bad moments in his playoff career (Spurs Finals, Mavs Finals, Celtics series), Peyton Manning deserves that shit tenfold for all the choking he has done in the playoffs. But the media simply loves him too much ever to get on him like that.
SanFranGiantsFan : 1/13/2013 4:45 pm : link
Osi, not a bad comparison with Peyton & LBJ.

Going back to college, Peyton got a lot of heat prior to his first Super Bowl that he couldn't win the 'big one'.
He had a shitty defense his entire career in indy  
jlukes : 1/13/2013 4:53 pm : link
And they never had a running game after edge left.

Yesterday something was off. No attempts over 20 yards and no zip on throws to the sideline.
comparing NBA to NFL is apples and oranges  
Greg from LI : 1/13/2013 4:56 pm : link
One player can dominate a basketball game to a far greater extent than in a football game.
most of the time when he lost  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 1/13/2013 4:57 pm : link
in Indy it was the offense not the defense.

In his 11 playoff losses, his team scored less than 18 points in 9 of those games!
As much love as Brady deservedly gets, more people/"analysts" than  
Riggies : 1/13/2013 5:50 pm : link
not still try to put Peyton above him and it's one of the things I'll never understand, as I can't even see what the argument for it is at this point.

If Brady failed the ways Peyton has in the playoffs (which doesn't mean Peyton's a choker; I wouldn't claim that at all, even if he's not "himself" then), there'd be defenses, strong ones certainly, but no where near the amount of people tying themselves into knots trying to absolve Peyton of any wrong doing whatsoever.
No, not at all.  
barens : 1/13/2013 7:03 pm : link
Eli has had some really bad moments in the playoffs as well, so has just about every bonafide QB in the NFL.
no but  
mdc1 : 1/13/2013 7:09 pm : link
going into that game I felt the Ravens would win that game due to turnovers (interceptions). Both Mannings throw ill timed interceptions. This time it was Peytons turn.
mdc1 -  
Exit 172 : 1/13/2013 7:12 pm : link
What is a "well-timed" interception?

Eli rarely throws backbreaking interceptions. In the postseason, he barely throws any at all.
Wasn't Eli a 1/2 inch away from a Rodney Harrison  
Ralph.C : 1/13/2013 8:26 pm : link
. . . sideline interception in the 2008 Superbowl that would have changed history and the perception of Eli?

That 70-yard heave by Flacco was mind-boggling. It reminded me when Montana hit Rice for a 70-yarder that burned Mark Collins and ultimately cost the Giants the playoffs in 1988.

That being said, Peyton had a chance to make it right and did not.
Yes he is a choker  
MetsAreBack : 1/13/2013 8:30 pm : link
No denying it anymore

He wasn't even impressive in the one superbowl run.

It is what it is at this point. Yesterday might have been his worst performance yet. Against one of the worst defenses in football, he accounted for a net 14 points in almost 6 quarters (21 points less yet another postseason pick 6). 3 turnovers. He was lousy.

I'm a fan and he works his ass off - I feel bad for him at this point, but he is no Brady.
I think so...  
bw in dc : 1/13/2013 8:55 pm : link

The guy is a savant, especially during the regular season.

But in the playoffs he has a rough history that is hard to deny. That pick six in the SB to the Saints was "classic" Manning when the pressure was boiling. Total misread, catastrophic result.

If Brady doesn't throw that INT on the last drive in the 2006 AFC Championship, I'm convinced the Pats, who blew a huge lead in that game, would have scored.

And Manning would still be chasing the brass just like Marino...
Regular season Peyton...  
Dunedin81 : 1/13/2013 9:00 pm : link
making his adjustments at the line looks in control. Yesterday Peyton looked flustered and nervous. It's the way he has looked in a lot of his postseason one and dones. I can't tell you how much of it is teams doing things differently, but the confidence seems to leave him in the postseason.
He shoulders some of the blame  
weeg in the bronx : 1/13/2013 9:08 pm : link
If he played for Bellechik his record would be better though. Same wth Bill Walsh. Never liked Dungee, his replacement did a terrible job in the SB, Fox certainly didn't wow anyone yesterday. He's played for four coaches total.

And If he had a better kicker, he'd have on a few more.
Manning is certainly is not 100% culpable...  
bw in dc : 1/13/2013 9:19 pm : link
Look, we saw glimpses of this at Tennessee. He couldn't beat Florida - at the time when the rivalry was even bigger - and lost some bowl games, especially when he and the Vols got annihilated by Nebraska.

It's funny. I'm almost convinced if he played every game indoors, where the conditions are ideal, he may have some more hardware. When the elements aren't perfect something changes with Peyton...
It is fascinating to dissect his playoff losses  
Mike Nickeas : 1/13/2013 9:41 pm : link

Post-2005, it is interesting to see how he has lost.

2005 home vs. Steelers - Ended up trailing 21-3 at one point and got it to 21-18 and got Vanderjagt lined up for a game-tying FG and he missed it. 290 yards/1 TD/0 INT

2007 vs. SD - Played well, put up 24 points and had a 4th quarter lead and his defense let Billy Volek get a go-ahead TD with 4 mins left. Had 1st and goal at the SD 7 with 2 mins left and turned it over on downs. 402 yds/3 TDs/2 INTs

2008 - @ SD - Sluggish offensively, only scoring 17, but still had a lead with 30 seconds to go before allowing a game-tying FG and SD won in overtime on the 1st drive. 310 yards/2 TD/0 INT

2009 - Pick-6 in the SB, nothing else to be said

2010 - Only scored 16 points, did lead them down the field for a FG to put them ahead with 50 seconds left, but ended up losing anyway. 225 yards/1 TD/0 INT

2012 - Was very shaky, but still had a TD lead with under a minute left. 290/3 TDs/2 INTs

While Peyton deserves blame as well, Peyton's teams have lost in the playoffs in numerous ways. Overtime, missing a game-tying FG, Antonio Cromartie's 50 yard return with 30 seconds left after Peyton had given them the lead vs. NYJ, Billy Volek leading 4th quarter drives, 70 yard bombs from Flacco with under a minute left, etc.

If you look at it, the only reason 2006 ended up as a championship was because his defense did something that they have failed to do previously - close out games. They didn't even score a TD on the road in Baltimore and still won. In a normal Peyton year, that is a sure-fire loss. He had that godly second half against NE, but he was carried to a championship in 06.

Peyton still has arm problems.  
DP : 1/13/2013 10:01 pm : link
He has no feeling from his index finger down thru his thumb. He can barely throw a ball 50 yards, whewn most NFL QBs can throw 65-75 yards.
Peyton and A-Rod are basically the same guy  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 1/13/2013 10:25 pm : link
Except everybody hates A-Rod so they jump on him every chance they get, while the media and fans love Peyton and blow him even after he chokes again.

A-Rod, Peyton, LeBron are all very similar when it comes to having amazing regular season accomplishments and coming up short in the post-season. A-Rod gets destroyed for it. LeBron got destroyed for it. Peyton... gets a pass? Not only is it shocking that Peyton gets a pass, but in reality he has the weakest playoff resume of the 3. A-Rod's 2009 and LeBron's 2011 title runs were both significantly more impressive than Peyton's 2006 title run where he was carried by Bob Sanders.

He's amazing but when you are in the GOAT conversation, you need to play better in the playoffs.
I don't think this is the time for this thread  
Mike in Long Beach : 1/13/2013 11:30 pm : link
regardles of the answer. I think it's unfair to even ask this question after the performance he gave.

But I'll play. I don't think he's a playoff choke artist. I will say this though.. he doesn't scare me the way about a half dozen other current quarterbacks do doing the post season, and that says a lot when talking about a guy who is in the top half dozen of all time.
bw in dc : 1/13/2013 11:39 pm : link
Peyton gets the benefit of three things there...

1. The Manning's, starting with Archie, are football royalty.
2. Peyton is tremendous with the media.
3. He's crafted a very wholesome, clean image...

Consequently, he has been given this layer of teflon that provides some protection not afforded other athletes...
Peyton is football family  
MarshallOnMontana : 1/14/2013 3:08 am : link
so any criticism of him here generally doesn't go over well. Fact it his postseason career is massively spotty. Everyone kills Matt Ryan for not having a playoff win, he got his a year sooner than Peyton, who took until year 6.

6 times in Peyton's career his team has been sent home one and done after a bye week, that is totally unprecedented in the history of the NFL to happen to one QB in such a short span. People here go nuts over the 08 Giants, imagine that happening 6 times in an era. Years where his team was hyped to win SBs where they went out without a whimper. In 4 of those 6 games his high powered offense failed to score 20 points. In the two they did, the game was there to be won late and Peyton played a big role in them failing. 07 vs SD they had a 1st and goal at the 5 and 4 cracks to win the game, couldn't get it done. And then Sunday, throwing the big OT pick

Additionally, Peyton Manning didn't even play particularly well for the majority of the postseason where his team won their SB. He was brutal for over half that run before finally waking up in the 2nd half of the AFC title game

There is no other way to put it, the postseason track record is underwhelming
And that is not to solely blame him for Sunday's loss  
MarshallOnMontana : 1/14/2013 3:10 am : link
I'm speaking generally about his career. And as well as he played for points on Sunday, the overtime pick was the lasting image of the afternoon, and it was brutal
You have to be kidding me  
Mike in Boston : 1/14/2013 4:20 am : link
Payton brings the team from behind to take a 4th quarter lead,
his team is up by a TD with 30 seconds left and Baltimore 77 yards from the end zone, and people want to say the problem is Payton choking? Unless he was playing both CB and S on Jones's TD, I don't think it was Payton who choked.
Victor in CT : 1/14/2013 8:22 am : link
but it doesn't take away from his consistent excellence. Year in and year out he is a regular season dynamo. But if I had to have one drive or one game for all the money it would be Eli in the huddle, not Peyton.
Part of the blame goes to  
chops : 1/14/2013 9:45 am : link
the play calling at the end of game and strategy.

The interception clinched it,but Peyton;s comeback after 4 surgeries can't be overlooked.
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