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Pat Traina with her thoughts after studying cap situation

Vin_Cuccs : 1/27/2013 4:29 pm
I personally have very high regard for Pat and her opinions because she has a very good handle on the team, the cap and the personnel. So here are some of her thoughts on the roster and salary cap situation. Some are very interesting.

All of this is via Twitter.

Thanks Pat!

Let the conversation begin!

Quote:
I do not think Ahmad Bradshaw is going to be cut. Might they restructure him? Possibly, though I donít see it being a huge restructuring even if David Wilson moves ahead of him on the depth chart. There's simply no way to where they can drop AB's base salary below that of DW's, even if DW starts.


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I think Michael Boley could become a cap casualty. I could see Jacquian Williams taking over at WLB next year.


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I donít think Corey Webster will be cut. While I would think his base salary would be in line for restructuring, this is the final year of his contract, and they might leave it as is just until they know for sure if Jayron Hosley is their future starter at that spot.


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I donít know if David Diehl will be cut at least right away because right now, they donít have any experienced depth at tackle on that roster. If James Brewer moves into the starting lineup, Diehl could be a reserve, though obviously not at such a high base salary. If, however, Diehl is cut before the start of the new league year, that is a sure sign that a veteran OL is high on their FA list.


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I have a strong suspicion that Will Beatty will be franchised, unless of course they reach a long-term deal with him. I could also see Victor Cruz getting the highest possible RFA tender if his contract isnít resolved before the start of FA on March 12.


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I think Stevie Brown will get at least a second-round tender, though if the team gives him an original round tender, that is likely an indication about how they feel about Will Hill and his chances of starting sooner than later. I do not think Kenny Phillips returns.


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I have a strong hunch that Lawrence Tynes might not be back. Tynes is coming off a banner year, despite his little hiccups later in the season, and heís certainly going to be an attractive free agent when he hits the market. Remember, this could be his final NFL contract, so I'm sure he'll want to make it really count.


Quote:
I wouldnít be shocked if they re-sign Keith Rivers and maybe look at him as their middle linebacker next year. Yes, Rivers has been injury-prone, but when heís been on the field, heís often looked very, very good and they might give him another shot.


Quote:
If we're talking candidates for contract restructurings, I wonder if perhaps Chris Canty + Chris Snee might be asked to re-structure to lower their base salaries. I know Eli + Antrel Rolle are two guys most would like to see restructured, but Eli restructured last year while Rolle has played very well. While Canty and Snee both dealt with injury issues this year, and Snee is coming off a Pro Bowl season, I think those will be two contracts to keep an eye on.


Quote:
If I have to guess right now on the highest area of needs, Iíd say in no particular order: cornerback, offensive tackle, and defensive tackle are right up there. I know some of you think linebacker should be in there as well, and that area will probably get some new depth, but I think the three positions I listed earlier in this post are probably of a higher priority given the current depth situation.
I don't see any way  
PEEJ : 1/27/2013 4:36 pm : link
that Webster stays at $7M. He either gets an extension at a lower rate or he's gone.
I was under the impression that Snee is not a candidate for restructur  
David in LA : 1/27/2013 4:38 pm : link
because he did so earlier in September, don't you have to wait a full 12 months before you can approach him about a restructure?
David is correct  
pjcas18 : 1/27/2013 4:41 pm : link
Snee restructured in September, so he can't restructure until September again.

Maybe they'll agree to that in advance of the season though or something like that.
No Extension for Webster  
Samiam : 1/27/2013 4:45 pm : link
Webster will be lucky to make the team next year unless he was playing hurt at the end of this year or the called defenses were completely not compatible with his talents (in which case Fewell should be let go). Why would Webster be extended if he's lost it?
I am not close to an avid follower of the money aspects of the Giants  
montanagiant : 1/27/2013 4:52 pm : link
So excuse me if this might be silly, but wouldn't Eli be a candidate for restructuring?
because you can only restructure a deal  
WeatherMan : 1/27/2013 4:56 pm : link
once every 12 months, and Eli had his re-done last year.
I think Webster can be a decent player  
PEEJ : 1/27/2013 4:57 pm : link
just not a $7M player.
Eli restructured  
PEEJ : 1/27/2013 4:58 pm : link
early March 2012.
It might be unrealistic but....  
Vin_Cuccs : 1/27/2013 5:00 pm : link
....I'd really like to see Webster, Diehl and Boley all cut. I'd keep Bradshaw but only at reduced in a smaller roll.
I think Eli restructured  
pjcas18 : 1/27/2013 5:00 pm : link
last March though, so he'd be a more realistic candidate than Snee IMO if it's necessary to create room for FA's.

restructuring isn't risk free though. For the players, it's almost irrelevant, since they're not getting less money, but it usually involves the team guaranteeing more of the salary or adding years in order to get the player to agree to restructure. in general it's just moving money around, but not quite.
Eli is as close to a 100% safe bet to not hurt us down the  
Big Blue '56 : 1/27/2013 5:10 pm : link
road because of re-structuring as is possible to be
BB '56  
pjcas18 : 1/27/2013 5:12 pm : link
I agree, just mentioning it.
I know pj,  
Big Blue '56 : 1/27/2013 5:17 pm : link
I just wish Eli could re-structure very year for the next 10 yrs if we need room. He'd be worth every penny coming to him
every year  
Big Blue '56 : 1/27/2013 5:18 pm : link
..
Please, please, pleeeeeeease franchise me.  
shepherdsam : 1/27/2013 5:22 pm : link


-Will Beatty
I'd be very surprised if the Giants  
pjcas18 : 1/27/2013 5:28 pm : link
franchise Beatty and kept the tag on him for the season.

The FT for OL is almost 10M, the Giants could prob sign Beatty to a 3 or 4 year deal with only slightly more guaranteed than that. Front load a deal, and then if he's unhealthy of regresses they can cut him fairly painlessly, I doubt he remains on the FT tag if it's even applied.
Snee, Diehl, Webster, Canty, Boley, Tuck  
Boy Cord : 1/27/2013 5:35 pm : link
All paid more than their production last season. The Gmen need to reconcile this to be competitive in 2013. This is all about business, and the Giants need to shed a lot of cap dollars. These are the targets.
Agree with Pat..  
prdave73 : 1/27/2013 5:52 pm : link
As I stated in my post My thoughts about FA/Draft.
Webster  
stretch234 : 1/27/2013 6:27 pm : link
For those who want to get rid of Webster. who is coming in to replace him. Do you really think this team will go into the season with Prince and Holsey as 1 & 2. Come on. You are nkt finding starting CB on the cheap

The advantage of not restructuring is zero cap hit next year
..  
Named Later : 1/27/2013 6:44 pm : link
I agree with most of Patty's cuts & keeps. But I don't think Bradshaw will worry about base salary being higher or lower than Wilson's. If he restructures.....he gets his bonus up front.

I believe David Diehl has to be cut before 3/12 if we're going to have any room to be a player in FA. He may still be around to re-sign before Camp starts.

I don't know about Kieth Rivers as a MLB. At 235-240 lbs he may not have the heft to play the middle. We're too soft there as it is.

The way Webster played last year  
pjcas18 : 1/27/2013 6:44 pm : link
how much worse (if at all) is Prince and Hosley vs. Webster and Ross?

Giants won two SBs with Webster and Ross (technically Madison started XLII) and spare parts at CB, sometimes people forget how much an improved pass rush/DL improves a secondary.

I'd cut Webster if it meant freeing up cash for improving the team in other places.
Mostly agree with Pat  
DavidinBMNY : 1/27/2013 7:06 pm : link
I can see Diehl accepting a big pay cut to stay as a reserve. I think Webster will either take less or be cut. The player I am concerned with is Tuck, if he is unwilling to undergo surgery, it is a huge risk he can contribute for the majority of the season and the gamble is he is so motivated in a contract year he returns close to form. I wouldn't take that gamble because of t2 consecutive years of Decline. Therefore, I'd pressure Tuck to take less base pay and go to incentives unless he wen under the knife.
pjcas  
Vin_Cuccs : 1/27/2013 7:09 pm : link
I'm with you on Webster.

Could Hosley possibly be any worse? I don't think so. At this point (or at least they way he played at the end of the year) anyone would be better than Webster.

There are plenty of potential free agent CB's capable of starting that come cheaper than Webster's $7 million salary.

On a separate note, not having a healthy Terrell Thomas is really hurting this team.
I think that's on target by Pat  
BillT : 1/27/2013 7:10 pm : link
The Giants are going to stay the course more likely than not. It's the way they do business. Webster will not be cut or reduced because he is still the starter. I think they'll draft a CB early and by next year they'll be ready to replace him. Same with Snee. Hard to ask starters to take pay cuts. Deihl might be a candidate if Brewer is taking over.
Boley  
AcidTest : 1/27/2013 7:18 pm : link
looks like the most likely cut. I agree that Bradshaw almost certainly won't be cut. I still think Diehl could be cut. We could still get a vet FA to be a reserve. Webster is going to have to take a cut IMO. Restructure Canty, and if possible, Eli and Rolle. I would let Rivers go.
Snee coming off a pro bowl season?  
nyynyg : 1/27/2013 7:20 pm : link
That is rich. Kind of like the Giants are coming off a season.
Wasn't  
Torn Tendon : 1/27/2013 7:43 pm : link
there a thread the past week with Pat's twitter conversation with an NFL agent where he explained a player's contract can be restructured more often as long as it wasn't a paycut or to a certain part of the salary.

The agent used Steven Jackson as an example of someone that restructured twice last summer.

Searched for it but didn't find it.
What does Bradshaw count on the cap?  
HomerJones45 : 1/27/2013 7:58 pm : link
I can't believe he is only 27. Seems like he has been here forever.
Torn Tendon  
New22 : 1/27/2013 8:03 pm : link
From a few days ago
Link - ( New Window )
Counting on Keith Rivers to be anything  
Bino5 : 1/27/2013 8:04 pm : link
would be a huge mistake.
I agree with a lot of what Pat discussed with a couple exceptions...  
Torrag : 1/27/2013 8:08 pm : link
Rivers at middle backer? The guy missed most of the season. If he was a younger man I'd say the term PUP was invented just for him. Could he be retained on a team friendly deal sure. Are the Giants going to give this guy a substantial contract offer? I just don't see it. Even if he stays putting him at MIKE, the most physically rugged linebacker slot, seems like a bad idea.

I'm in the camp that sees linebacker as a huge need area for this defense. Boley is slipping. Williams didn't prove anything in his second year except he doesn't come back from injury quickly. Kiwi is probably going back to DE full time leaving a gaping hole at SAM. There is no credible MIKE on this roster. So how isn't this a high priority? Paysinger was underwhelming.
Pedro Feliciano  
hilary f : 1/27/2013 8:13 pm : link
The Giants threw out Bradshaw's arm.I can't see paying 3 million dollars to a back who at best can't practice and is high risk to miss a lot of games.I would not be shocked to see the Giants cut Bradshaw and take the back from Alabama,Lacey if he is available.
Bradshaw  
stretch234 : 1/27/2013 8:22 pm : link
The Giants will not go into a season with Wilson and an injured Brown as the 2 RB's. When have the Giants ever had critical positions not manned by a veteran. It is not happening.

I would take a chance on Rivers - he is cheap and can play. As always the question mark is health. 1 of these years he has to be healthy.

I find a different vet T than Deihl, especially if Brewer is the RT. They have done very well finding a guy for RT. Right now any guy is better than Deihl
So many assumptions in this statement....  
Torrag : 1/27/2013 8:39 pm : link
I would take a chance on Rivers - he is cheap and can play. As always the question mark is health. 1 of these years he has to be healthy.

He is cheap...he isn't signed so how cheap will he be? You know his agent wants to get him paid.

1 of these years he has to be healthy...why? His track record proves he isn't durable. How is he suddenly going to reverse this?



The problem with the CBs this year  
JohnB : 1/27/2013 8:47 pm : link
was that there wasn't a pass rush. Give QBs a truck load of time and almost any CB is going to be exposed.
I want us to  
George : 1/27/2013 8:51 pm : link
cut Diehl and Boley.

restructure Webster, Bradshaw, and Canty.

sign a vet OL.

Find ways to retain Beatty, Brown, Rolle, Cruz, and Bennett.

Great points by Pat  
Geeman : 1/27/2013 10:44 pm : link
keep in mind, the Giants traded a pick for Rivers and when healthy played well. As long as the price is right, they'll bring him back for a position of need like LBer. Not like we have great options there anyway. I'm not thrilled with him in the middle though.
Beatty the Giants have to find a way to keep him, they have enough problems along the line. Dont want to have to look at that spot too.
Webster, they need the Vet for one more season, hopefully they can cut his salary a bit.
Posted this on the 23rd...know Pat was working on her analysis then  
Defenderdawg : 1/27/2013 11:08 pm : link
Code:

Salary Cap
Giants 9.1 million over? Twitter conversation between Pat Inside Football and Joel Corry agent, National Football Post writer

Code:

Patricia TrainaĢ@Patricia_Traina
Will Reese make a "splash" this year the way he did a few years ago with Rolle? ..Ē& lt;& gt;have to see how much $$ is available.

JanJoel CorryĢ@corryjoel
The Giants are approximately $9.1M over the cap. Eli Manning's $20.85M cap # makes him a restructure candidate.

Patricia TrainaĢ@Patricia_Traina
Except he just redid his del last year -- they'd have to wait to do it again.

Joel CorryĢ@corryjoel
The 1 year wait applies to salary increases. Eli converted base salary into signing bonus w/o increasing salary.

Patricia TrainaĢ@Patricia_Traina
that would make sense then.

Joel CorryĢ@corryjoel
As an agent, I had a team force a pay cut on a client twice during the same off-season.

Patricia TrainaĢ@Patricia_Traina
I thought that wasn't allowed to occur within a 12-month period?

Joel CorryĢ@corryjoel
The one year wait is for increases only. Steven Jackson made changes to his deal twice during this season.

Patricia TrainaĢ@Patricia_Traina
Makes sense. But I sure would like to know if the projected cap numbers being reported include projected tenders.

Joel CorryĢ@corryjoel
Players haven't been tendered. I'm assuming Victor Cruz will get the $2.879M 1st round tender but franchising is an option.

Patricia TrainaĢ@Patricia_Traina
My guess is Beatty gets the franchise tag. Doesn't make sense to tender a RFA IMHO.

Patricia TrainaĢ@Patricia_Traina
And if players not tendered, how can they be over the cap with 22 contracts expiring and less than 51 under contract?

Joel CorryĢ@corryjoel
They are right at 51 players. Futures contracts count for the top 51.

Joel CorryĢ@corryjoel
I agree about franchising a RFA. It's overkill since RFAs hardly ever sign offer sheets with another club.

Patricia TrainaĢ@Patricia_Traina
Plus LTs harder to come by unless you have a top 10 pick or a ton of cap space.

I suspect Boley, Philips, Bradshaw, Webster are all candidates for restructure/cuts

Patricia TrainaĢ@Patricia_Traina
Phillips a UFA. And of the others, maybe one in serious danger.

Joel CorryĢ@corryjoel
Corey Webster has the 2nd highest cap number on the Giants. 2013 is also his contract year.

Patricia TrainaĢ@Patricia_Traina
He'll likely get a reduction, but I don't see him being cut
The most over paid/ underperforming units  
WideRight : 1/28/2013 11:15 am : link
1. OL
2. DL
Webster has played some great football for this team...  
Mark C : 1/28/2013 11:21 am : link
a fact that is easy to forget after his numerous failures this past season. Still, I think he's worth keeping and would not be easy to replace immediately.
This is certainly going to be an interesting  
Sneakers O'toole : 1/28/2013 11:31 am : link
few months coming up in Giant land.
With 22 FA's and a bunch of aging vets this offseason will be critical  
jel0514 : 1/28/2013 9:55 pm : link
Defensively, there are a few players who just did not play up to their salaries for one reason or another. Most glaring in the secondary, was Corey Webster. He has been a solid piece of the two superbowl teams and at times looked like a very capable number one corner for most teams. This past year, around week three or four, I remember an interview that Carl Banks did where he mentioned that Webster was playing on a hurt hamstring. He seemed to believe that Webster would attempt to battle it out for the year, but his exact words were at any time it could give out on him and he would certainly be done for the year. The injury left him with a huge bullseye on his back and he was abused week after week, look no further than Baltimore to see a quarterback single him out and take advantage with whoever he was lined up across. The team needs to find out if it was something that with rehab he can bounce back from or if he is no longer an option for even a 3rd corner. He can either come back for less money and attempt to regain his position or the team can part ways. Its not an easy decision but one that has to be made.

Kenny Phillips is another player in the secondary who seemed to be a complete shell of himself after returning from his injury vs NO. From the point on he looked nothing like he had during the first 4 weeks, where in a 243 attempted passes vs his zone coverage he had allowed a mere 2 completions. I think the fact that Stevie Brown played so well in his absence and the team clearly holding Will Hill in high regard makes it possible for them to hopefully bring him back to a team friendly deal. When healthy, KP is one of the most underrated safeties in the NFL. He excels in both man and zone coverage and plays the deep center better than anyone. His career has been plagued with injuries, but he has flashed brilliance often when he has been able to maintain health. In a perfect world, he would be able to accept a contract as the teams 3rd safety. When Grant was inserted as the Heavy Safety/Light LB the team seemed to really play well against the spread offenses that are becoming more and more prevalent through out the NFL. Teams stressing TE's as weapons down the middle only puts more emphasis on someone like KP to return. I would be very disappointed if he doesn't return next year, I do see that injuries have taken a toll on him, but he is on one of my favorites and most underrated players year after year.

Justin Tuck, largely regarded as a leader on the team and the heart of the defense looked like he was a beaten and broken man throughout most of the season. As hard as it would be to see him go, especially with the likelihood of Osi returning seeming to be an impossibility at this time, I think this year has left him open to possibly facing a restructuring of his deal or being cut, unfortunately. Moves like this are never popular with the fans, but if there wasn't an injury or mental reason for his diminished play these are the type of moves where franchises suffer from holding onto a name for just a bit too long. I love Tuck for all he has done wearing the Blue 91, but it was sad to watch someone who had been so dominant for periods seem to have nothing left. Luckily, the decisions are left up people who have far more knowledge of his inner workings and possible injuries leading to his decline than I, but it wasn't easy to watch. As tough as it would be to see him elsewhere it seems possible.

I think its pretty safe to say that Boley will not return. He gave added speed needed when the team went for an influx of athleticism a few years ago, but unless he returns in a diminished roll, I think its time to see if J Williams and the rest of the younger more recent draft picks can take over full time there.

Canty is a very interesting player to watch this coming off season. The man is clearly a monster and the defense gained an immediate boost upon his returning form the PUP. Slowly he and the rest of the DL went on the decline. I think it was more of the collective group failing than squarely on any individuals shoulders, but he wasn't the same dominant force in the middle he had been when he and Linval were absolutely tossing interior lineman aside through out the playoff run. I hope to see that he would be willing to return on a restructured deal, because I don't think he is in anyway finished. His lack of a proper off season seemed to leave much desired when it came to the stretch run that he did not seem to have.


I think its much easier offensively to see who will not be returning. Diehl was replaced by a veteran in Locklear who had just joined the team and his absence was an upgrade. He was awful at guard and left something to be desired at RT. Its possible his off season transgressions took something away from him on the field, but he has seemed to be on the decline for a couple of years now. Hopefully, Brewer is ready to step in at RT and Beatty can continue to improve at LT.

If Brown can make another return from an ACL injury, I think he added what this offense had lacked for many years when it came to the hard tough yards. Time after time on 3rd and short he stuck his nose in there and picked up the slack. Wilson showed he can explode on any given play, Bradshaw is still the heart of the team, and Brown found a niche and played very well in it. If all goes well it would be nice to see him return.
Beatty franchised would be a collasal  
LauderdaleMatty : 1/28/2013 10:07 pm : link
waste of cap space. Last year he was solid but hardly anywhere near that value. Even if they go OL heavy this draft the depth is suspect so I can see the Giants over paying him a bit but franchise level?

The OL really needs a youth and depth infusion. Lets face it, there isn't one starter other than a healthy Snee who is really above average. And at this point Snee seems to be fighting injuries as much as DTs.
I'll take Rivers for $200, Alex......  
Doomster : 1/28/2013 10:41 pm : link
Name one play he made all year.....
Matty  
stretch234 : 1/29/2013 6:29 am : link
Who was really better at LT in the NFC than Beatty. Can you definitively say Okung and Williams were better. There is no way Staley played better.

You have to resign him
River  
The Original G Man : 1/29/2013 7:12 am : link
One big factor in Rivers' favor is his speed. Having to face RG III and the Philly Quack Attack multiple times per year, fast linebackers are going to be at a premium.
Beatty being franchised would shock  
mrvax : 1/29/2013 8:30 am : link
me also. That would probably pay him 10M!
Beatty has the team over a barrel  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/29/2013 8:31 am : link
Who plays in his place if we let him walk?

Gonna put Diehl back there?

Boothe is up for renewal too. Do we let the entire left side walk away?
While I agree with a lot of what Pat says, she uses the word  
jlukes : 1/29/2013 8:48 am : link
"restructure" incorrectly pretty much every time. You do not "restructure" a player in the last year of is deal. You can extend the guy, but you can't restructure him. You can ask him to take a pay cut, but you can't restructure him.
Link - ( New Window )
Jlukes  
Pat from Inside Football : 1/29/2013 8:59 am : link
There is actually a way to restructure a contract of a player in the final year of his deal. It involves adding a voidable or club option year, and depending on the money involved, the dead money vs. the cap savings cancels each other out. That's sort of what they did with Osi, as I recall. So no, I didn't use "restructure" incorrectly. :)
You guys were really all that impressed with Rivers?  
NYDCBlue : 1/30/2013 3:50 pm : link
He clearly has nice speed and all, and doesn't miss many tackles, however I don't think I remember him ever hitting an opposing player and that player not falling forward for an additional 3 or more yards.

Rivers as our Mike? Hell no! Maybe if he hit the weight room hard first....
Stretch I easily think the 3 guys  
LauderdaleMatty : 1/30/2013 6:04 pm : link
you mentioned are better all around. Plus I just don't see him as a guy you want to commit huge dollars to long term.

I certainly think he's solid but not anywhere near worth 10 mil for 1 year, and a long term deal where he costs the Giants 8 mil or more per scares the shit out of me. Back issues added to the fact that I don't think he will get any better at this point. I think his value is more that there's no one else on the team or in FA ,not that he's that good.

I honestly for the first time in a long time think the Giants are in deep shit as far as the OL goes. Huge depth issues and IMO there isn't one guy who if they can draft right can't be replaced without me thinking it is for the best in the long run. I'd like to see a CB, a DL, and two OLs in the first 4 rounds.

If I were Eli I would be a bit concerned. I pray Brewer steps up.
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