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Archived Thread
Last night on his radio show on NFL Radio, a caller asked about the Giants draft (of course the caller asked about Tight End in the 1st round- I still dont understand how Giants fans don't get this will not happen!!!! anyway) Brandt said the Giants would probably look to take a tight end in the 3rd or 4th round area and he talked to Pope. Pope had his eye on someone but Brandt "wouldn't give away any family secrets"
Brandt then said the Giants will draft BPA in the 1st as they normally do because they have a tendency to have someone fall to them while others reach. He gave Wilson as an example last year and someone who he thinks will be a "pretty good player in this league"
He then discussed Kevin Boothe and said its a player they want to re-sign but is already getting a lot of attention as a free agent. First I've heard of this in the media that Boothe will be a target of other teams, so we may want to temper our expectaions that Boothe is going to come back for a cheap contract after receieving little interest.
No link- it was on the radio.
but I would like to discuss your 90210 fandom.
Boothe is 30 and many olineman's play can start to decline over the next few year. Better to draft a guard or build with someone younger
TE is a position in football. We need a TE. Why won't it happen in round 1?
The problem for the Giants is that after they paid Beatty they have 4 OL with hefty contracts and really not much cap room for a 5th. Boothe might be worth more than DD - but he can't replace him at ORT. That's the rub.
Who could also play Center in a pinch. I'm not surprised that he's popping up on other teams' radar screens. He won't command Carl Nicks-type money on the open market, but it's a good bet that some team will offer him more than the Giants can afford to pay him.
Because there is not 1st round talent at the position
because he has shown that he can play C and Baas is always hurt. He may have value to others because of that as well. I think we've learned that the Giants won't overpay.
KWALL, they won't pick a TE in Rd 1 because TE is not a priority position for them in this offense. And Pope has proven that he can take low-round picks and UFAs and turn them into productive players. Even Bavaro was just a 4th round pick.
the same way RB wouldn't happen in the first last year?
The only constant in the Giants draft philosophy has been that they love to take DL, DB and WR in the first 3 rounds but they don't always take ALL THREE positions in the first 3 rds. Some years they take two of the three. Some years all three but never less than 2 of DL, DB and WR go in the first 3 picks. It's how the Giants roll.
With that said, they will add a random position into that mix just about every year. Sometimes they take the OL. Sometimes they take the RB. Sometimes they take the LB.
This year is no different. Expect to see the Giants draft 2 of DL, WR and DB in rounds 1-2-3 and then sprinkle in a random position. They have done this every single year since 2005 with ZERO exceptions.
And the Giants do in fact value the TE position as much as any team in football. They took Beckum in rd 3 one year. They took the kid last year in RD 4. They spent money on Shockey for a few years.
I think there is going to be so much value at the position later in the draft. You can probably get someone like Kelce, Kasa or even Williams from Alabama in the fourth round.
Yet Bennett had his best season as a pro in this offense and would have done more if he didn't drop a few passes. Ballard has a good season here in 2011. Boss never topped his NYG numbers anywhere else. Shockey with over 60 and 6 every year under Coughlin.
You don't think the Giants would taylor the offense towards the TE if they had a Jimmy Graham type on this team?
The Giants are no different than any other NFL team. They value positions based the talent at that position. This is not the run n shoot Oilers we are talking about. Not in the least.
And again, NY wasn't taking a RB last year until they did draft Wilson in RD 1.
If NY loves the TE at 19 they would draft him and adjust their offensive philosophy accordingly. Like they do every year.
what position the Giants won't draft in Round 1. Any position is a possibility. They proved this last year after so many people swore up and down they'd never pick a RB in round 1.
They don't "not" pick players because of their position in the first round. It depends on how the chips fall on draft day and no one has a clue what the Giants will do.
so why does it bother people so much if we don't draft o-line in the first round. It's not like he'll be the immediate answer to the problem
is not important position stuff is nonsense.
If there is an impact player at TE you draft him in round 1. Why? Because it works for ANY NFL offense.
but he's not the 19th best player in the draft. 30-40 is more like it.
call Eifert an impact player.
Giants have gotten plenty of impact from rookies in the past. But yes, the Giants are not drafting for this year as much as they are drafting for future years.
But 2007 was a HR in terms of rookie impact. And Nicks, Snee, Jacobs, Kiwi, Phillips, Thomas and others all played as rookies. Just because Wilson and Randle had to wait doesn't mean the future class will wait.
know it all's, said they would never take a RB in the 1st round too. You must all have inside info that we don't have.
Bring in all the evidence you want I, have examined the rosters and draft under JR as well. All the DE, WR and CB talk could have easily been BPA as well as filling needs. BPA is such a non-sense blanket statement from a bunch of talking heads.
if the Giants went with a guard in the first two rounds, you can best believe that he will probably start especially if Booth isn't re-signed. Maybe even if he is.
Also, I seem to remember the times that there were Tight-end talents worthly of a first round pick, they either went earlier than the Giants' pick or were the more one dimensional reciever type.
Jeff, DraftScout has Eifert listed at 23. That's pretty close.
but they mix need into the equation at the same time.
If a WR or DT is there at 19 that have equal value, you can bet that need will factor into things.
and who we feel is the 19th best player in the draft. It's a matter of systems used by teams and who fits in best in that system or scheme.
T. Efiert will be as a pro. In hindsight would you know it all's take Gronk or Graham or Gonzales or Witten in the 1st round?
If your answer is no, your just plain dumb.
Shockey was drafted in the 1st while Pope was the TE coach.
So if the the Giants happened to draft Gronk at pick 42. Are you saying they wouldn't use him similar to the way the Pats do? If you believe that again your clueless.
When I do my "Maximum Eifert" mock draft, I expect you to stick up for me.
I always loved listening to Gil. Always enjoyable. Its gonna fun which mid-round TE prospect that Pope has his eyes set on.
1. Teams always SAY they go BPA. But all teams (including the Giants) consider who they've got and what their system is when they decide who the BPA is. The BPA concept doesn't exist in a vacuum.
2. When people debate about whether the Giants will draft a certain player or a certain position, some folks get annoyed and respond by saying "They'll draft the BPA. Period." That's saying nothing. What fans like to discuss, even if it's speculation, is WHO the BPA will be.
It's a bit like responding to the question "who will win the game" by saying: "Dumb question. The team that plays better will win."
True enough most of the time, but where's the fun in that?
that Pope told Brandt that the Giants have their eyes on a TE in the "3rd-4th rounds"?
No one? I'll give it a go - Escobar. Yeah if he's there in the 4th...
Keep an eye on Colorado's Pro Day.
the Giants won't reach for a tight end because its "needed", especially with no tight ends worthy of being drafted at 19. Eifert is a late 1st round prospect.
I find it hard to envision a case where a tight end is in a tier (remember the Giants grade their players in tiers) above the other prospects left on the board when the Giants draft in the first round. In the case the tight end is in the same top tier as a DL, CB, WR or OL, the Giants will then apply THEIR positional importance on the above positions.
first round talents that deserved to go where they went.
Just because the Giants picked a RB that fell to them doesn't mean they're going to fall all over themselves to pick a TE in a class that quite frankly doesn't have the same talent level as the RBs who went last season.
I will. If Bennett isn't re-signed TE IMO, becomes just as important as all the other positions. In, fact I would say slightly more important, since they can fill the need as a two-way threat, since they Block and catch passes. Besides having a C. Johnson type of player, elite TE's provide an element to an offense that often cannot be matched in the passing game. Everyone knows they are too big for S's and too fast and athletic for most LB's.
Reese has stated numerous times that the Giants draft board has the players ranked in "Rows" not in a listed numerical order. Players in the same row have the same grade. If our pick comes up and the highest row has multiple players left, we will then address to fill an area of need, draft a premimum position (DE, WR, CB) or look to trade back (Kiwanuka in 2006).
An obvious case of a player being the only one left in his row unexpectley was Prince, he was the only one left in his row, hence the pure BPA pick.
With David Wilson last year, there have been reports there were four players in his row. Cordy Glenn, Reuben Randle were two of the three. Never heard the other. Its obvious the Giants at the time last year viewed running back as a higher need then WR and Oline, coupled with the face they saw an an opportunity to get a dynamic player at running back that they wouldnt have been able to get later in the draft.
Dion Simms? Big fella who can run.
DE's on this team. I'll eat crow if I have too after the draft, but anyone who thinks the G-Men are going DE in the 1st when their are more pressing needs, needs to get their head checked.
that guy really knows talent evaluation and how to build a football team. I think the issue is the Giants look at the draft as something to help them build for the next 3-4 years, not just next season. That's why they took Wilson last year. Sure we had Bradshaw and other options, but a year from then the whole landscape as we just found out can change dramatically. That's why the "draft mavens" don't get it when they pigeon-hole a position for the Giants based on current need. I'm sure if the BPA was a DE last year we would have grabbed him. Did we already have Osi/Tuck/JPP? Sure but look how the landscape there has changed in a year. It's tough to say who we'll take because picking at 19 there are an assortment of teams in front of us who go both ways-need/BPA.
they had higher than Wilson last year when they picked him and multiple sources knew very early on in that round who the Giants were going to pick.
He wasn't a reach, no, but it also wasn't BPA at a "premium" position like so many feel the Giants live and die by, in absolutes, either. If this year there was a TE that truly tickled them, they'd take him... it's just probably very unlikely that there's a TE in this draft that does that at #19.
obviously if they have a DE that falls into the Prince catagory as stated above it might happen. Otherwise there is zero chance, with some many other pressing needs.
I don't see any reason to fear DD at LG, where he has been serviceable. The matter is bringing him back for less and we may be able to do that. Just don't move him around anywhere else anymore. The guy can't handle it.
Although having a young guy come in would be best...
Diehl was more of a liability at left guard then he was at left tackle
draft a guard early (1st or 2nd rounder) for a potential starting LG job or even the future RG job.
Snee ain't gonna last much longer.
and I think the Giants do to. Solid veteran, plays every game, versatile, etc. However he will be offered more $$ than the number JR has placed on him. He's 30 and needs to cash in on value one last time. Hoping for Cooper in the 1st.
the Giants have taken DE in round 1 before when they had more depth at DE than they have at this moment in time.
IN other words, they just might take DE again this season. If they took DE in 2006 and 2010 why wouldn't they take DE this season? Osi is gone. Tuck is heading into the final yr of his contract...
DE is a distinct possibility.
Wouldn't be so sure re DE. We draft for positional value os well noted by djm but we also draft for years 2 to 3 in the future. Tuck is probably done after this year. Kiwi is sort of unknown at DE and not exactly young. So how does this premium postion look out 2 years. Not great IMHO. Ojomo, Broha, Tracy? Maybe a Victor Cruz story there but I highly doubt it.
And there are some really good DEs in this draft. I'd actually be surprised if a good one is there, which I expect in Rds 1 or 2, maybe 3, they DON'T take one. We'll see
love to get Boothe back, but am preparing for his loss. That really makes us thin at guard, so I assume we will sign a veteran.
Toilolo, Stanford. 6'8" and can run.
I never say never, but would be surprised, even if he is there @19. IMO, fielding a solid team for the upcoming season is always more important then the following season. It's like putting the cart before the horse. We could just as easily draft a DE in round 1 in 2014.
Most will be camp fodder, but I figure they're hoping that one or two will show some promise just in case they can't re-sign Boothe, and don't get any immediate help in the draft.
it seems like a great move to draft a G early. If Cooper is gone, can't see it in Rd 1. There should be some good ones in Rd 2 on and Snee is definitely tailing off. Just ask him. He'll admit it. Boothe may get priced out of our hands. Drafting a Snee like G to start and fill that position for 5 years or more would make a lot of sense. Cooper scares me a little even if available as he has never played near 300lbs and that seems like a minimum weight. Sure, everyone says "year in NFL weight room, blah, blah.." but to take a G at 19, I want Hutchinson, Iupati ready ...in a perfect world.
such a hot commodity why did he only command a 1 year, $1.5M contract last year, in his prime, coming off a Super Bowl win?
A capable backup, as he had been for most of his career, but not much more. In 2012, he showed that he could start and play well.
Are you talking about Boothe. He didn't sign for $1.5m last year. He signed a 2 year deal before the 2011 season. At that time, he was a servicable backup. Now, I would say that he is above average starter who can play multiple positions.
