Report: Giants unlikely to retain Webster and Diehl

may be cut, and even if he isn't he's in a training camp battle with at least one other player and likely more.

If he's penciled in I hope it comes with a good eraser.

Think about the number of positions where vets may have been placeholders:
OT: Diehl/Locklear --> Brewer
OG: Boothe --> Mosley/???
RB: Bradshaw --> Wilson/Brown
TE: Bennett --> Robinson
WR3: Hixon --> Randle

DT: Canty --> Austin/???
DE: Umenyiora --> ???
LB: Boley --> Williams
LB: Blackburn/Rivers/Kiwanuka --> ???/???
FS: Phillips --> Hill/Brown
CB: Webster --> Hosley

If the young vets are actually ready to play, we might look back on 2012 as the year we overpaid some older guys to keep seats warm.

Every year is a transition year in some sense. As long as Eli is around, the goal will be to manage change while winning.

the year prior it better fuckin be a transition year. A transition to better things in 2013.

I have no problems showing optimism with this group. Temper your expectations all you want but you can bet your ass that Reese and Mara and Coughlin have lofty expectations for 2013. And they should.

You guys were killing Webster, Osi, Diehl and others all season long. Now all of a sudden their departures will doom this 2013 season?

It's March. Let this off season play out. Odds are the Giants line up a lethal offense and a lethal pass rush in 2013. That kind of team can go places.

nonsense. Don't you know that the young unproven players on NY will never emerge in their 2nd and 3rd season?

Hosley was a rookie last year. The young OTs were all drafted with the knowledge that they'd be a work in progress. True projects.

Young Guys can go from zero to hero in a year's time.

I dont see them getting rid of him off 1 bad year unless there is zero financial sgreement.

There is no replacement on the market who covers opponents no 1 receivers. There is also nlt a guy in thd draft stepping right in.

While i have no doubt Prince could be the no 1, Holsey may even be the 2. Where is the rest of thd CB. You need at least 3 real good CB in todays game.

spotrac.com:

•The total cap savings for releasing both now would be $12,075,000.
•Releasing Diehl would result in a cap saving total of $4,825,000.
•Releasing Webster would save $7,250,000 against the 2013 cap.
•Each player has one year left on his deal.

I. Here are Webster's numbers:





II. Here are the links to Diehl's numbers:

Optimus

Nothing wrong with a transition year.

we gotta do this

i admit i am less understanding and forgiving than some others about our terrible defensively play for almost 4 years straight now (since the '09 season). that is a long time to be playing bad football. it's about more than coaching.

I'm tired of watching rookie QBs and inept offenses have field days against our D.

thank god for the magical 6-game run ... that is exactly how they should've been playing (more or less) the entire time. But they just don't. call it heart, call it desire. call it character. whatever.

Statistically been ranked as one of the worst defenses in several categories thru the last 4 years. it slowly started when we lost strahan and then A.P. no balls, no swagger, no intensity.

it's just time to go in a completely different direction on defense, with the players. and I'm glad they're doing that.
canty, boley, webster, osi - it's time for these guys to go. these are the guys who've been on the field the last 4 years while our defense has sucked.

i'm also glad they are trying to keep the 1 guy - kenny phillips - who has played consistently excellent football for us on D. altho i doubt he'll stick around unless his knee scares everyone else away.

like the dead money between the two would be $4.5 million...So would we net saving $8.5 on the cap?? ($12.07 original total savings - dead money)

but given the loyalty the Giants have do you think they'll bring Diehl in to a situation where he needs to fight for a job to only then potentially lose and get cut at the end of camp? The Giants seem like traditionally they don't do that to vets, they cut them early and give them time to find jobs. Unless I'm missing someone.

I don't see Diehl as a backup at his salary, and unless the FO knows something we don't (which is entirely possible) I don't think he's starting material any longer.

that's the only thing I see against it being Diehl vs. Brewer for RT. Arguing against myself (but not necessarily for Diehl - at his current salary) I also don't see them handing the job to Brewer. I think most likely situation is Diehl takes a pay cut or another veteran low $$ RT (like Locklear) is brought in to compete for the job and provide depth should he lose.

"The pay's the thing."

You don't cut Webster if he agrees to a paycut. You also don't cut him without a plan for a suitable FA replacement in place. You don't count on a rookie to replace him this year, but you do draft one anyway, because there's always a need for them, you'll have a shot at a good one, and the draft isn't just about 2013.

to bbi poster klaatu, i think if webster is cut it's a pretty safe bet CB would be their #1 priority in free agency.

NYG usually throw big $ at their biggest perceived need in free agency. and they usually get "their guy". they will have a plan in place when webster is cut

and it says here its a good opportunity to bring in a Tampa 2/zone CB who fits our scheme better. also have T2 as a wild card!

I think Diehl expects to win the gig, and I think the brass expects Diehl to win the gig. Between he and Brewer, it's probably the most likely outcome too.

It appears the wildcard would be if they sign a RT via UFA, perhaps at that point they outright release DD. They'll try to not let a veteran go at a "bad time" in terms of finding another job, but it's not always feasible, ie a training camp release.

A lot of people have been writing stuff that suggests that the Giants are going to attempt to re-load on talent to compete in future years. I don't believe it's the case as I believe the Giants are looking to win next year. If this is the case, Jon's view that Diehl is penciled in at starter makes the most sense, particularly if they believe he was injured last year.

Even if they don't sign Cruz to a long term deal, he's going to be playing for his next contract.

it further suggests they expect him to win the gig, as starting RTs get paid well enough where his earning the gig warrants the price tag, in theory.

I'm looking at the UFA RTs that on the market next week if I'm Reese, and try to grab a player I want. Diehl would then either accept a paycut, or be cut loose in favor of a Locklear-type signing to be the swing tackle, etc.

•The Cap Savings for releasing both players would be $12,075,000.
•Releasing Diehl would result in a cap saving total of $4,825,000.
•Releasing Webster would save $7,250,000 against the 2013 cap.
•The total Dead Money for releasing both players in 2013 would be $4,673,000.
•According to overthecap.com, the Giants are $3,832,113 under the cap.
Source: http://www.overthecap.com/nfl-cap-space.php?Year=2013

•If the Giants were to cuts both players, they'd be under the cap by $15,907,113.
•After getting under the cap by $15,907,113 the Giants will have to use $6,225,000 to sign their 3 key Restricted Free Agents (RFAs): Cruz, S. Brown, and A. Brown.



•After setting aside the money that they need under the cap to sign their RFAs, the Giants would be $9,682,113 under the salary cap.

to their upcoming draft picks?

Even with cuts, the Giants won't have a lot of money to throw around in free agency. I don't expect them to sign any FA CB to a pricey, multi-year deal. What I do expect (if they cut Webster) is a stop-gap, someone on a one-year "prove it" deal, a la Martellus Bennett's at TE last year. Maybe a two-year deal, but that's it.

$4.6M and change.

I posted this the other day,

I agree that they will target a Right Tackle in FA, cap wise it may not look like it will work but when it comes to signing players entering their prime that will be part of the core, Abrahms and Reese make it work, just as they did with Rolle, Canty, Baas.

There is no middle ground with Reese, it's either swing for the fence FA signings with young players in their prime to fill a need or veteran depth for 1 year min. Contracts

I cant see Reese going into the draft with Diehl at his current number which is just irresponsible versus Brewer.

I think Reese knows the oline is a huge issue going forward, and signing a RT with Beatty in the fold will solidify it for the rest of Eli's prime. It allows him not to rely on Brewer and though I'm not comparing him to CC Brown, the potential is there and I can't see him ever letting that happen

Andre Smith is my target but if Smith commands more money on the open market then we just paid Beatty, it won't happen as they won't want to upset the locker room structure of paying an outsider at a less premium position. A guy like Cherlius in that case makes a ton of sense. Keep an eye on Eric Winston if he's released from the Chiefs.

Personally im greedy and want Smtih first or Vollmer (even more of a pipe dream because he can play LT- Pats are reportedly not budging off their offer of 6 mil per year)

I can't see Reese allowing the Giants going into draft with a bullseye or no choice but to take Fluker. It hamstrings them and that's not his MO

Just curious, have you heard they are targeting a RT in FA?

thanks.

even more room under the cap beginning on March 8th, since that's the 12 month anniversary of his announced re-structuring from last year. You have to 12 months to restructure a deal in which a player makes more money up front, but you don't have to wait at all to restructure a player who'll make less money than before (this is sometimes called "restructuring down"). In this case, a player's contract can be restructured multiple times, as per agent Joel Corey from the National Football Post.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Joel-Corry.html

Last I heard, he was going to Europe for treatment. The Chiefs can't cut Winston even if they wanted to, and why would they, anyway?

have at it...
Giants cap analysis - ( New Window )

Daniel Jeremiah on NFL Network mentioned it was a possibilty as well las night.

They have Albert, #1 pick where they still most likey will take a tackle if they hold the pick, and drafted Donald Stephenson high last year

Nothing yet. I'd be pleased if we signed Cherilus or Winston. Vollmer would be a big addition, I wanted to draft him.

they haven't cut Diehl yet. That's some serious cap savings and you should be able to get Diehl-level performance from somebody who's a lot cheaper.

Webster is a tougher call. He's just a really odd player. You don't think of CBs as "streaky" but he is. If we get him on a hot streak, he's probably worth keeping. If he plays badly, then he's killing us with that cap #.

Bottom line, if it comes down to a young guy vs. and older guy, we've got to cut the older guy. Keeping Cruz, Nicks, JPP, Linval, etc is the priority.

This money doesn't have to be made room for though until it's time to sign those players, so the Giants are in no rush to take care of making room for the rookie draft picks yet.

If Eli's deal is restructured on Monday, March 10th, let's say, then the Giants will have a lot of money to work with entering free agency. They'll probably sign cheap Linebackers and depth. They possibly may spend money on a guy like a Gosder Cherilus to fill the RT position, but that's about as out there as they'll get. I'm betting they use the draft to fill that slot, along with possibly re-signing Diehl to a vet. minimum type deal with incentives if he hasn't found a home later this offseason.

allocations (designated pick-by-pick).

Click below.


New York Giants 2013 Rookie Pool Estimates courtesy of overthecap.com - ( New Window )

I was told we're looking at Fasano, that's it so far.

is the starting RT while a guy like Cruz is plucked by another team because the Giants couldn't afford him.

Even the f'ing Jets caught on quicker to Wayne Hunter and moved on from him than this.

acting like losing Webster and Diehl means we're rebuilding on the fly?

Both players were a huge negative for the Giants last year.

Replacing them would be a positive for the 2013 squad vs the 2012 squad

February 18th. At least he cited where he got it. Here's my original link with the work that I did for it.

Rookie Pool Estimates for all 32 teams in 2013 | Optimus-NY: 2/18/2013 12:01 pm

I read somewhere that cutting Winston wouldn't make cap sense for the Chiefs. I could be wrong, I don't have a link or anything. I know they tagged Albert, and, reportedly, they're not opposed to trading him, but I don't know if they'll get many takers.

Personally, I think Andy Reid won't take Joeckel (or any other OT) with the #1 pick (assuming he can't trade out of it). I think he'll go D-Line...Sharif Floyd, most likely.

Makes sense since he is a decent two way player, a Parcells tight end which is pretty much is the same type of player Pope looks for.

I just hope thats not the only thing they are going to be active with early. In Reese's tenure if they don't go after someone early, it means they will be waiting for the 1 year vet min type players later on in FA.

I truly believe if we get RT shored up, Reese can go all-in on BPA (defensively) in the draft and get an infusion of youth and talent on that side of the ball which is needed.

the Chiefs are moving to a 3-4, and Floyd makes no sense there as a protypical 3 Tech.

If they stay put and don't take the tackle, I think there is a better chance they take Millner.

I think RT is the key in free agency. Other signings figure to be veteran depth spare parts. But, shore up RT and they're in a much stronger position for the draft, as you said.

**See source below.

•Cutting Winston now, who has 3 years left on his deal would result in $3,500,000 of Cap Savings.
•By cutting Winston now, the Chiefs would have $3,000,000 of Dead Money counting against their 2013 Salary Cap.


Eric Winston's contract information from overthecap.com - ( New Window )

And they could, but Reid took D-Linemen in the first round in six out of twelve drafts with Philly, and they might do with Floyd what the Chargers did with Corey Liuget. Anyway, we'll find out on April 25.

As for Fasano...after what Reese said abut Adrien Robinson, and after they already re-signed Bear Pascoe...and after what Pope said about one particular TE prospect that he liked in the draft...I don't know why they'd spend any money on a FA TE? Not with the needs they have to fill at other spots, with limited FA money.

if Bennett leaves, we'll sign one. Pascoe is more of a move TE, the rest are relative unknowns. We need the TE who can block inline, block on the edge and in space, and get downfield to provide another option for Eli.

Beginning with this thread from 12/31, where I first mentioned Cherilus.

Quote:

Gosder Cherilus might be available without breaking the bank. Klaatu : 12/31/2012 11:45 am I think he'd thrive under Coughlin and Flaherty, and anchor the right side for the next five or six years.

Of course, it all depends on the money, as well as how the Giants feel about Diehl and Brewer, and, to a lesser extent, Mosley and McCants. As long as they don't go into the draft having to find a right tackle, I'll be happy.

may be indicative of how the staff feels about Brewer starting at RT. If they were confident in him taking over, I can't imagine Diehl would still be hanging around.

And with questions at LG as well as RT, I don't think they'd cut him until those questions were answered, one way or another. He's like "mad money," lol.

If we signed Fasano and drafted a TE, would Pascoe be a goner?

Sign James Casey from Houston and draft Michael Williams in the latter part of the draft.

lets hope that its realistic and not just wishful thinking regarding RT.

The positive, Reese normally fixes the biggest hole on the roster in Free Agency when they don't have an in house candidate waiting. I think its safe to assume Brewer is not that guy or Diehl would be out of here.

The negative, cap space.

Winston, confirms my thought that they would save a nice chunk against the cap, but also remember from a cash flow standpoint a $4.9 million salary is a lot for a player when there could be a logjam at the position.

It depends on cost, I don't think we'll spend much on a TE. I'd actually be looking at a more athletic TE in earlier rounds, like Escobar.

1) The Giants should not be rebuilding this year of all years...they need to if anything sell out and go for it with NY hosting the Super Bowl.

2) Cutting Canty, Boley, Amhad, Diehl, and Webster is not rebuilding. It's taking out old, washed up guys who are past their prime to free up money to get younger, improving talent.

Canty in 12-sucked
Boley=sucked
Amhad=inhured again
Diehl=sucked
Wenster=sucked


So I don't know how that is a rebuild to get rid of players who sucked last season.