Report: Giants unlikely to retain Webster and Diehl

Quote:

Coach Tom Coughlin says “I want ’em all’’ when asked about his own free agents but acknowledges that’s not going to happen. How much the Giants have to spend depends on their salary cap situation, which is directly tied to a pair of veterans, cornerback Corey Webster and offensive lineman David Diehl. Both players are coming off poor seasons entering the final year of their contracts. Both started in Super Bowl XLII and again in Super Bowl XLVI, but their returns to the Giants are not guaranteed. Webster’s salary for the upcoming season is $7 million and he’s scheduled to count $9.8 million against the cap. Diehl, 32, is scheduled to make $4.475 million in salary and his cap hit is around $6.9 million. It is virtually impossible for the Giants to bring Webster, 31, and Diehl back at their present salaries.

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says he wants Webster, Diehl, Carr and Cruz back

face it... the Giants CAN be good this year but this is going to be a rebuilding on the fly type of year. No other way to really look at it.

They have no business being on the roster anymore time to move on.

in a negative way. We are clearly transitioning to new players and it is overdue in my opinion. That doesn't mean necessarily we have a down year though. Spending huge dollars on Webster and Diehl makes zero sense.

It is time to fine players that are going to be given and a shot, and have to step up.

want to keep one of Diehl or Webster. How do they decide who to cut? Past production? Most likely future success? Available/affordable free agents? Potential rookies? Money saved? Available depth? There is a lot to factor in.

He's their coach. It would be pretty crappy for him to say otherwise.

that's textbook reporting in this day and age

speculate based on tom's quotes

didn't say anything about it being a "negative" but losing "proven" players and replacing them via the draft is a gamble (clearly one in a cap era teams need to make). But odds are that the rookie class you bring in is going to play at a lower level then the vets we will/have dropped. Lack of cap room + dumping vets = a rebuilding situation. It can happen right away if last years rookies step up and some of the guys they bring in do well but it's still a "gamble" betting on rookies/second year unproven guys to do better than your vets.

So was 2007 and 2011. We lost important vets before both of those seasons and many thought the same thing. In a way, it forced us to play young players in important spots (Bradshaw, Smith, Boss, Ross, Cruz, Ballard, Jaquan Williams, etc).

We have Eli, which is good for 8 wins no matter what. Now let's see some young players step up to the next level like Wilson, Randle, Prince and lets see what we draft. It forces us to give a bigger leash to the young talent and I like it, especially talent found by Reese.

the record I'm totally for moving on from Diehl, I understand moving on from Webster. But lets not act like anyone outside of Prince is an amazing bet to outperform Webster this year (fully understand how bad he was this past year).

That was to Dan's 8:12

is good for 8 wins? We won 9 with Bradshaw, Webster, Diehl, Bennett, Boothe, Cruz (who could be gone as well).

Eli is good for 8 wins, assuming its not the Jaguars around him.

why did we only win 9 with all of those guys still here? It could be argued Boothe was our best OL last year. If we lose Boothe and Cruz the Gians are a lock to win at least 8 because of Eli?

I'm pretty confident Eli will never have a losing season in his career as a starter. He hasn't yet and likely never will, assuming he's healthy.

was Curtis Painter I'd want Carr back too. I don't get that decision. I know teams that lose their starter are unlikely to be competitive and the '90 Giants or this years 49ers (who didn't lose their QB) were kind of unique in this regard that they won with a backup/2nd QB, but Painter is like throwing in the towel on the season.

I can see possibly considering Painter if he'd play below league minimum (if that were allowed) and maybe be an assistant coach or something too, but if there is another option out there, any other option, I'd strongly consider it.

And I know backup QB is the least of the worries right now, but it's a head-scratcher.

came into this year with Super Bowl aspirations (rightly so). Why don't we see that as much this year? Because of the blood letting, cap space and uncertainty of rookies/second year players. I don't think I'm saying anything outlandish.

C'mon. If Eli isn't our QB, this is a 4 win team the past few years.

Painter top 3 worst QB's ive seen in my life. I'd work out Jamarcus Russell over going with Painter.

wins? We won the Super Bowl 2 years ago, and lets be honest (and Eli is my favorite Giant ever) he didn't exactly have his finest season this year. Which year did we have 4 win talent with "League average qb" replacing Eli?

I would rather just go with a rookie behind Eli. I don't think Carr is an option, we don't need a great clipboard guy for him anymore. Eli is a vet. I don't buy Carr is a great practice QB, not buying it one bit. You just have to see him out there in preseason to know he cannot come close to mimicking QBs that are changeups.

Get a backup for the league minimum that can start learning from Eli. So goes Eli, goes our chances.

We don't even know if we're losing Webster yet.

Losing Diehl would make this team better .

article doesn't tell us anything we don't already know, namely that Diehl and Webster will have to take pay cuts to remain with the team. Diehl should just be cut outright.

Webster's best option is to return to the Giants at a reduced price. There won't be much of a market for a thirty year old CB coming off a bad season. The Giants could then offer a little more than his market value as a reward for his tenure and contributions. Maybe add in some incentives in case he really starts to play well again. He needs to understand that this happens to all athletes. He can probably still contribute, but is no longer in the prime of his career.

said anything about it being a lock we lose them both?

Quote:

We won 9 with Bradshaw, Webster, Diehl, Bennett, Boothe, Cruz (who COULD be gone as well).

CB on the roster are we confidently penciling in for "better than Webster was in 2012" other than Prince who is already one of the starters and thus not "replacing" Webster. Webster stunk but it's no great bet that Hosley is better than 2012 Webster this year.

to one degree or another but most of the guys who are now gone or seem to be on their way out were underperforming again, to one degree or another so you can look at it like we're upgrading at most of those positions.

So the talk about "losing 'proven' players and replacing them in the draft is a gamble" is premature. We don't know how many of those guys we will even be replacing yet. It could only be Bradshaw and Diehl. It might be more. It could be all of them. Who knows.

When you have a franchise QB and the weapons we have the playoffs should be the expectation. There are some holes but the cap situation isn't as dire as all that. Releasing Webster and Diehl would free up cap space to sign their replacements in free agency. That's addition by subtraction to begin with. They won't be released until new players are ready to ink their deals. Upgrading those two positions alone goes a long way to fixing what ailed the Giants last season. Need to get another quality player into the DT rotation as well. If JR&Co. can get these three things accomplished then head into the draft we're a contender. It's doable.

we are trying to get younger at certain positions while still being a contender. The Jets are in rebuilding mode. Huge difference.

Name a team not trying to swap aging vets for young guys? The Patriots have been dealing with the worst secondary in the league during their prime Brady years. They are constantly trying to draft at CB and reshuffle the secondary. That isn't rebuilding, its trying to get better.

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by Coughlin or Reese. They keep everything so close to the vest. If you do read what they say, you will end up trying desperately to weasel something out of their words in a vain attempt to read between the lines.

I'd like to see:
On Diehl & Webster:
"Both guys fucked the team up last year. Screwed the pooch. I can go back over film and count how many games they blew for their fans and teammates."

On Cruz:
"He's just a young ungrateful douche bag. If we didn't give him the chance to start here with the NY Giants, the bastard would be dancing for Chip & Dales for tips about now."

On David Carr
"He can eat shit for all I care. He took off for SF a few years ago and washed out there to. If he leaves again, the whining bitch has best not try our door again."

on this team I would prefer to keep C Webster and Cut DD.

Yes Webster, had a bad year, but he had a broken hand and some other injuries. Which FA CB, is going to replace him for less money and play better? I don't see any rookies coming in and out performing him. Besides the spanking by the Ravens, he seemed to be in position on many routes, he just didn't make the plays.

I don't disagree but the difference here is our internal options at most of these spots are pretty weak. I'm excited about Wilson starting but is James Brewer really a great bet to be as good as Diehl let alone better (and I FULLY realize Diehl might be close to done). Hosley over Webster? Hosley wasn't all that impressive to me as a rookie. We have nobody currently on the roster who can replace Boothe, Robinson replacing Bennett? Sure it's possible but to go from 0 snaps to replacing his production is probably a little bit unlikely. Replacing Phillips with..? Like I said they are rebuilding on the fly and they can be very good this year but it's going to be a tougher off-season for Reese than any I can remember.

The issue is his current salary is way too high.

you can do better for the money he's making. By far. And he was terrible last year before he had injuries to deal with.

He's currently one of the best CBs we have, even with the down year. If we can tweak his number, or cut and resign at a lower number, I hope we can do it. But tough decisions are being made right now.

exactly. And draft a rookie.

I know free agency starts March 12th, but I was reading somewhere there is only 3 days left to sign our own players.

Here is the quote I read " Although Welker wants to finish his career in New England and the Patriots want him back, we're less three days from the negotiating window for free agents."


Is this the case?

Looking at the current roster doesn't really say anything about who will be starting next season.

and yeah, Hosley seemd to be the real deal. Losing Webster at this point would be such a savings that I think we have to do it. And he was glaringly bad last season. So I don't see it as a step back to move on from him.

This is the worst time to really evaluate the roster. All that has happened so far are cuts and a couple of re-signings. After the draft and FA period, we'll have a much better idea what we're dealing with. The roster right now is still very incomplete.

Wow I didn't realize Webster and Diehl account for $17 Million against the cap. They have to cut them, their cap number is way too high.

I actually think we're going to be down a bit this year, but will be fine in 2014.

not a rebuilding season but what the Giants will do is add veterans at a cheaper price over guys like Webster at 9mill simple as that. That money will be used to keep players like Cruz.

when you have a hall of fame QB in his prime. The front office and the coaching staff need to figure out the pieces that have to go around him and it shouldn't take more than one off season.

if he agrees to a cut because he did not perform nearly up to his contract last year. The Giants may need to keep him even if he doesn't accept a cut because of the uncertainty at CB this year.

Diehl should be kept for emergency duty at veteran minimum if he wants to stay one more year.

they're talking about signing your players before free agency starts, after which you will be competing with other teams for the players. You can still negotiate with them after free agency starts, you'll just be in a weaker position.

What day is the last day to sign your own players before they hit the open market? Friday?

looked like the "real deal"? He showed some decent flashes but he also was awful at times. Not suggesting he won't be good but if he he looked like the "real deal" I don't think the Webster question would be looming as large as it is.