Report: Giants unlikely to retain Webster and Diehl

Coughlin will start him anytime he's healthy enough to play.

webster was terrible last year and hasn't had to desire to tackle in the last 3-4 years.

diehl was also terrible last year and was outperformed by locklear a journeyman free agent.

canty was OK last year but it's not like the run defense became good when he came back. he missed half the year. the half year that he missed the team went 6-2.

bradshaw was fine, but he wasn't significantly better than brown. in fact it appeared that brown played better than bradshaw last year and we have wilson waiting in the wings ready to break out.

and boley just flat out sucked last year and was benched late in the season once williams became healthy.

what this shows me though about webster is CB just jumped to the top of the wish list and i would not be surprised at all to see them go CB in round 1 or 2.

but losing him isn't going to hurt much, if at all. He's a decent reserve at this point in his career.

Now Webster....I think he can still play and play well in the league, but at that salary, you have to re-evaluate.

Perhaps cutting both those guys allows the Giants to persue someone in FA at corner.

And while I know everyone wants to lock up Cruz, I have a feeling the Giants are looking to improve the roster elsewhere first. They have Cruz for this season, and plenty of time to negotiate.

compete a transition year.

They have Eli, good weapons, and some good pieces on defense.

Important thing is to fill in those holes in the draft......it's imperative they have a good draft.

an infusion of new players and leaders on this team. They did not look motivated or hungry at the end of last season. We need to get HEALTHY and younger.

your mock quote about Cruz has some merit.

I have absolutely no desire to see Webster go anywhere, although his base salary obviously needs to be reduced. His release would add yet another question mark to the several that confront the 2013 Giants. Absent the salary cap, Webster would be on the team no questions asked.

has a ways to go before I have confidence to say he's the "real deal".

Hopefully the jump from year 1 to year 2 will be huge for him, but corner needs to always be on an NFL team's radar in this pass first league.

The thing that scares me is we become painfully thin at corner, LB, and DT with our moves this offeason.

I'd have to think we go for something big in FA after clearing all that cap room.

people look at Webster as the scapegoat for last season....

Glaringly bad? Yes, there were plays where he let the receiver go, and they made long gains or tds....but this has gone on for the last 3 seasons, and I think that is part of Fewell's system, where everyone is not on the same page....

And yes, he had some good coverage where receivers made plays on him.....there is no doubt that Webster had a bad year, but thinking that this guy is one of the worst CB's out there would be a huge mistake....he had a bad year.....based on that, he is not worth 7 mil, because his ability is in question.....I still think he is a good CB....this being a contract year for him, he could have a huge season.... thinking that Hosley is the answer, would be a huge mistake....and Prince has yet to stay on the field for a full season....who else do we have?

We already have 5.6 mil in "dead" money from our first three cuts, and have lost 3 starters....cutting Diehl and Webster creates another 5 mil in "dead" money......so that would mean 4 starters gone, and 10 mil off the top of the cap, so if the cap is 121 mil, you only have 111 mil to work with plus replacing 4 starters....

We have the "potential" of losing 10 starters to FAcy....that is a REBUILD.....

We are not privy to what the players are asking, if they will take cuts, and whether the Giants are looking to next year as a patchwork attempt to get to the SB or whether they are thinking more in terms of two or three years down the road....I hope they are not in the same "fairy tale" dream Jerruh was, thinking his team would be in the SB because it was played there the next season....

Hard decisions have to be made, and it would be crazy to focus on next season just because the SB is in the Medowlands.....Reese would have to pull a rabbit out of his ass to accomplish something like that.....

You also "seem" to have a difference of opinion between Reese and Coughlin, as far as use of the personnel Reese has drafted.....I think Coughlin really tried to repeat, and the only way he felt he could do that was with his vets, rather than trust rookies or free agents....

All of these scenarios are factors in the decisions that have to be made not for just the upcoming season, but for future years also.....the next few seasons will show us not only what kind of a team we have, but what kind of a front office we have....

..

Maybe because Webster was beat like a redheaded step child continuously

why again would we be rebuilding? Because we are letting go of an aged corner who's more interested in how flat his flat brims are than covering anyone? Or is it because we're cutting an aged LT/RT/G who was a gap fill from the beginning and hasn't performed well at all in the past 2 years? Remember when we all sat here during his injury and said they were better w/o him and Coughlin was a fool for his loyalty?

This team still has a top 4-5 QB, a ton of young skill talent (DWils, AndreBrown, Nicks, Cruz, Randle, etc), and one of the top 3 staff/organization mixes in the league. Give me a break on this "rebuilding" fodder. The team is just as talented as any other in the league. Reese will do his work in the draft, pick up a few veteran FA's at justifiable deals, and we'll be competing for the NFC East and a playoff spot again (get in an see what happens worked twice)

Calm the hysteria of March football talk

They're two very strong examples of last-year contracts, 30+ vets who are coming off poor seasons, and have no leverage other than to refuse a paycut and take a shot at UFA.

Once free agency begins, we'll see if NYG pursues a RT to replace Diehl. Webster is a much more useful player to us, but they really should adjust his pay.

Neither will be back at their current salary, but both could very well be back via pay cuts. DD will get no more than the vet minimum from another team so his motivation to restructure is high. Webster is in a bit of a different category but obviously ripe for restructure as well.

As to 2013 potentially being a down year, I would argue that due to under-performance and injuries to veterans, 2012 WAS the down year, and we are likely to see improvement in '13 despite new faces. I.e. new, young and/or inexperienced guys will probably play "as well", and likely better, as some of the departing vets did in 2012.

I mean....is there another team that would give him a shot as a backup, rather than develop a young player?

I think DD comes back here at a pay cut due to familiarity..him with NYG, and NYG with him.

Webster.....now he would have interest on the market IMO.

As much as his detractors here don't want to hear it, he's essentially penciled in to start at RT, at the moment.

I doubt the Giants want to extend him for the 2 to 4 years it would take to get a new deal and we don't have much proven talent behind him

That's terrifying unfortunately.

have a hard time believing that.

re:8.36 post "only the shadow knows"

The key word is "penciled."

for whatever reason. There have been times when players have had an off year and come back strong the next. Since there is no guarantee, though, I doubt the Giants take the risk and keep him at his current salary.

Diehl, well, proof is in the puddin'.

It's utterly bizarre, but this team is blindly loyal to Diehl. He may have a fake competition with Brewer in TC, but if he's on this team -- and I have no doubt he will, perhaps even on his current cap number -- he's going to end up starting somewhere on the line.

Make your peace with it now, folks.

That's a fact. A fluid situation, but that's where it stands right now.

Perhaps we make a move in UFA to secure a RT, and then release Diehl. If not, it is what is is and we see if we procure a RT prospect via the draft who can challenge for the gig in camp.

as severely hampering the performance of Diehl, Snee, and Baas last season.

They're going to be given every opportunity to prove themselves before being cut or benched. In DD's case, I don't agree with it either, but it is what it is.

This FO is overly forgiving.

for a very long time now, as mentioned countless times by myself and other posters. I think there is better at a cheaper rate out there.

I figure if Reese is going to make a move to sign a FA RT, it'll happen pretty quickly. We'll see.

but I think he can still perform well. He's just simply making too much money. Would love to see him back with the team at a lower price. Diehl is a liability, and is probably best that he go and make space for a young guy to come up.

But I agree than Webster may still have something in the tank... Just overpaid at this point...

then that shit's official.

Just about every team is in transition from one year to the next. The one's that aren't have the QB and coaching staff in place.

This team has a boat load of star power and quality starter talent. If this is a rebuilding year then far too many players didn't step up in 2013.

Giants have been treading water for the past 2 seasons with 18 wins combined. They were able to turn up the heat in January/Feb of 2012 but the signs of an older team were everywhere.

I like that we are getting younger. Hungrier. We have seen countless young players step up for the older incumbents time and time again over the past 8 seasons. We need to transition from the old to the new and based on history this will be a positive. Reese and Coughlin are as good as any in the business when it comes to identifying and coaching up talent.

also gets a lighter schedule in 2013 and they are coming off a failed season. Odds are in our favor that this team turns things around and wins 10-11 games.

with rookie draft picks. They are replacing the older guard with the 1-2-3rd year players.

The toughest positions to find and the most important commodity to maintain are in place. The QB. The WRs. The DL, for the most part and the LT are all in place. The coaching staff is in place.

Finding a #2 corner if Web is released and a new RT which both may be on the roster is not that difficult to find. Especially when you factor in that 2nd and 3rd year players like Hosley, Brewer and others have been sharpening their teeth under this staff.

I like where this team is at. They need a fresh face or two in the starting lineup and it seems that the majority of times this team asked a relative unknown player to emerge after releasing a house hold name, that unknown steps up.

It's an exciting time for the Giants. I love seeing the younger guys emerge.

But if I'm Jerry Reese, I don't want to go into the draft looking for an OT. I think it's more important to find an interior lineman with some versatility...a C/OG-type like Brian Schwenke, Travis Frederick, or BBI-fave Barrett Jones.

As for Webster, I'd like to keep him, but at a much-reduced salary. If he doesn't agree to a severe paycut, I'd cut him outright and look to sign a reasonably-priced vet, along with drafting a top-tier CB. I like Webster. I'd be sorry to see him go, especially if he was replaced by an underacheiver like Chris Houston, but his price doesn't justify his play.

Now, it could be that injuries really did hamper his play last year. I can buy that. But he's 31, and I doubt he's in the Giants' long-term plans. Better to cut him a year early than a year late. Short-term pain vs. long-term gain.

.

may be cut, and even if he isn't he's in a training camp battle with at least one other player and likely more.

If he's penciled in I hope it comes with a good eraser.

Think about the number of positions where vets may have been placeholders:
OT: Diehl/Locklear --> Brewer
OG: Boothe --> Mosley/???
RB: Bradshaw --> Wilson/Brown
TE: Bennett --> Robinson
WR3: Hixon --> Randle

DT: Canty --> Austin/???
DE: Umenyiora --> ???
LB: Boley --> Williams
LB: Blackburn/Rivers/Kiwanuka --> ???/???
FS: Phillips --> Hill/Brown
CB: Webster --> Hosley

If the young vets are actually ready to play, we might look back on 2012 as the year we overpaid some older guys to keep seats warm.

Every year is a transition year in some sense. As long as Eli is around, the goal will be to manage change while winning.

the year prior it better fuckin be a transition year. A transition to better things in 2013.

I have no problems showing optimism with this group. Temper your expectations all you want but you can bet your ass that Reese and Mara and Coughlin have lofty expectations for 2013. And they should.

You guys were killing Webster, Osi, Diehl and others all season long. Now all of a sudden their departures will doom this 2013 season?

It's March. Let this off season play out. Odds are the Giants line up a lethal offense and a lethal pass rush in 2013. That kind of team can go places.

nonsense. Don't you know that the young unproven players on NY will never emerge in their 2nd and 3rd season?

Hosley was a rookie last year. The young OTs were all drafted with the knowledge that they'd be a work in progress. True projects.

Young Guys can go from zero to hero in a year's time.

I dont see them getting rid of him off 1 bad year unless there is zero financial sgreement.

There is no replacement on the market who covers opponents no 1 receivers. There is also nlt a guy in thd draft stepping right in.

While i have no doubt Prince could be the no 1, Holsey may even be the 2. Where is the rest of thd CB. You need at least 3 real good CB in todays game.

spotrac.com:

•The total cap savings for releasing both now would be $12,075,000.
•Releasing Diehl would result in a cap saving total of $4,825,000.
•Releasing Webster would save $7,250,000 against the 2013 cap.
•Each player has one year left on his deal.

I. Here are Webster's numbers:





II. Here are the links to Diehl's numbers:

Optimus

Nothing wrong with a transition year.

we gotta do this

i admit i am less understanding and forgiving than some others about our terrible defensively play for almost 4 years straight now (since the '09 season). that is a long time to be playing bad football. it's about more than coaching.

I'm tired of watching rookie QBs and inept offenses have field days against our D.

thank god for the magical 6-game run ... that is exactly how they should've been playing (more or less) the entire time. But they just don't. call it heart, call it desire. call it character. whatever.

Statistically been ranked as one of the worst defenses in several categories thru the last 4 years. it slowly started when we lost strahan and then A.P. no balls, no swagger, no intensity.

it's just time to go in a completely different direction on defense, with the players. and I'm glad they're doing that.
canty, boley, webster, osi - it's time for these guys to go. these are the guys who've been on the field the last 4 years while our defense has sucked.

i'm also glad they are trying to keep the 1 guy - kenny phillips - who has played consistently excellent football for us on D. altho i doubt he'll stick around unless his knee scares everyone else away.

like the dead money between the two would be $4.5 million...So would we net saving $8.5 on the cap?? ($12.07 original total savings - dead money)

but given the loyalty the Giants have do you think they'll bring Diehl in to a situation where he needs to fight for a job to only then potentially lose and get cut at the end of camp? The Giants seem like traditionally they don't do that to vets, they cut them early and give them time to find jobs. Unless I'm missing someone.

I don't see Diehl as a backup at his salary, and unless the FO knows something we don't (which is entirely possible) I don't think he's starting material any longer.

that's the only thing I see against it being Diehl vs. Brewer for RT. Arguing against myself (but not necessarily for Diehl - at his current salary) I also don't see them handing the job to Brewer. I think most likely situation is Diehl takes a pay cut or another veteran low $$ RT (like Locklear) is brought in to compete for the job and provide depth should he lose.

"The pay's the thing."

You don't cut Webster if he agrees to a paycut. You also don't cut him without a plan for a suitable FA replacement in place. You don't count on a rookie to replace him this year, but you do draft one anyway, because there's always a need for them, you'll have a shot at a good one, and the draft isn't just about 2013.

to bbi poster klaatu, i think if webster is cut it's a pretty safe bet CB would be their #1 priority in free agency.

NYG usually throw big $ at their biggest perceived need in free agency. and they usually get "their guy". they will have a plan in place when webster is cut

and it says here its a good opportunity to bring in a Tampa 2/zone CB who fits our scheme better. also have T2 as a wild card!

I think Diehl expects to win the gig, and I think the brass expects Diehl to win the gig. Between he and Brewer, it's probably the most likely outcome too.

It appears the wildcard would be if they sign a RT via UFA, perhaps at that point they outright release DD. They'll try to not let a veteran go at a "bad time" in terms of finding another job, but it's not always feasible, ie a training camp release.

A lot of people have been writing stuff that suggests that the Giants are going to attempt to re-load on talent to compete in future years. I don't believe it's the case as I believe the Giants are looking to win next year. If this is the case, Jon's view that Diehl is penciled in at starter makes the most sense, particularly if they believe he was injured last year.

Even if they don't sign Cruz to a long term deal, he's going to be playing for his next contract.

it further suggests they expect him to win the gig, as starting RTs get paid well enough where his earning the gig warrants the price tag, in theory.

I'm looking at the UFA RTs that on the market next week if I'm Reese, and try to grab a player I want. Diehl would then either accept a paycut, or be cut loose in favor of a Locklear-type signing to be the swing tackle, etc.