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TC not buying JPP's weight gain as "muscle."

Big Blue '56 : 3/21/2013 10:29 am
Quote:
Speaking at the NFL’s annual meetings, Coughlin revealed that Pierre-Paul reported to training camp overweight last summer and struggled much of the year to get rid of the extra pounds.

The surplus weight may have played a role in the back issues that hindered Pierre-Paul in 2012, not to mention a stunning dropoff in sack production that prompted Coughlin to do what few in the Giants’ organization have done publicly — express disappointment in the former first-round pick.

“He didn’t play as well as the year before,” Coughlin said glumly before shrugging his shoulders when asked why he thought Pierre-Paul plummeted from 16.5 sacks during the Giants’ 2011 Super Bowl run to 6.5 sacks last season.

Coughlin admitted Pierre-Paul’s weight was an issue much of the year. Coughlin wouldn’t specify how overweight Pierre-Paul was when he reported to camp, but the coach said it took well into the second half of the schedule to get him back to his ideal weight of 275 pounds.

“He was big when he came to camp,” Coughlin said.

Coughlin also doesn’t appear to be buying Pierre-Paul’s excuse that the extra weight was acceptable because it was more muscle than body fat.

“There’s not a lot of body fat [with Pierre-Paul], yes, but still ...” Coughlin said, the frustration obvious in his voice.
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haha I was such a damn homer  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 3/21/2013 11:52 am : link
on that JPP thread. Sigh... still think JPP has legend potential but last year was a let down.
It's now public  
Phil in LA : 3/21/2013 11:53 am : link
So it won't be a surprise when they bring it up should they engage JPP I'm new contract talks...
It's not the weight - it's the lack of conditioning  
old timer : 3/21/2013 11:56 am : link
Adding weight - even if its muscle - is not the same as being in condition. One of the biggest factors is recovery time. How fast do you recover after sprinting thirty yards?

If you add muscle that is not transferable, that is to say not useful in the acts of your occupation, it can be detriment to performance and conditioning.

This is common in younger players. They think they are getting stronger but they are just getting bigger without benefit.
I think JPP  
Brandon Walsh : 3/21/2013 11:58 am : link
is not surronded by the best crowd
.  
Big Blue '56 : 3/21/2013 11:59 am : link
Quote:
JPP is 23 years old.

old timer : 6/18/2012 9:43 am

It is a natural to get a little bigger as you get older. A person just fills out.

Nothing to see here. Move on. Move on.

BB56 throwin' daggers  
AnotherGiantsFan : 3/21/2013 12:02 pm : link
.
Surrounded*  
Brandon Walsh : 3/21/2013 12:02 pm : link
.
Brandon Walsh  
Ace718 : 3/21/2013 12:03 pm : link
Care to elaborate?
Let's face it,  
Doomster : 3/21/2013 12:05 pm : link
when the whole DL is clicking, teams can't concentrate on JPP......maybe he thought more weight would make him more of an enforcer....it didn't work out.....but NO ONE on the DL distinguished themselves last year.....Sacks? JPP 23rd...Osi 33rd....Joseph and Tuck 58th......Canty 74th.....Bernard 137th.....

This was the strength of this defense....pressure the QB.....with the present ensemble of linebackers, and a new direction in the defensive backfield(KP A.D.), and the present state of this DL, it could get worse before it gets better......we don't have cap space for difference makers in free agency.....when was the last time we drafted a stud defensive performer that produced in his first year?

The defensive philosophy seems to be, take a chance on projects and hope they work out....how has that worked out?
JPP  
stretch234 : 3/21/2013 12:05 pm : link
Didn't the Giants say he played at 290lbs in 2011. How much heavier was he. Everything I saw was he weighed 295

He was 275 lbs coming out of college
Fatty was grounded last year  
dcgiantsfan : 3/21/2013 12:05 pm : link
His dunk after the pick six at Flatscreen Stadium showed that the belly fat was keeping him more grounded:) There's no way JPP could have pulled off all of those backflips last year!

I hope he does get back to his rookie season form.
Doomy, pressures would have helped a great deal as well.  
Big Blue '56 : 3/21/2013 12:06 pm : link
Curious what the drop off was in pressures from 2012 compared to 2011
JPP played some of his best ball in 2011  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 3/21/2013 12:06 pm : link
when Tuck was sucking and Osi was hurt. Sure having the other DEs play better lifts his game up even more, but in 2011 he was a one man wrecking crew.
Kyle  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/21/2013 12:24 pm : link
JPP didn't have a sack in the last SEVEN games of the season. That's pretty mediocre.
He wasn't the only DL to come to training camp  
ZogZerg : 3/21/2013 12:26 pm : link
"fat and happy" ....
I bet he  
spike : 3/21/2013 12:39 pm : link
cant do those backflips with that extra weight!
So JPP comes in 10 whole pounds  
phil in arizona : 3/21/2013 12:40 pm : link
overweight and perhaps not in prime condition. Does training camp, preseason, and practice not get him in football shape? People are talking about a lull he had in the 2nd half of the season. I'm pretty sure he is in darn good shape by then.

You have to remember, we had suboptimal play at defensive tackle. This allowed teams to run the ball against us AND which kept our defense on the field longer. Of course he's eventually going to look winded at the end of a 60 yard drive if that keeps happening. Also, when the defensive tackle play is poor, it's easier to scheme around him.

here r some pics of him at camp last year  
Neverend : 3/21/2013 12:46 pm : link
http://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=447931

AKA TC  
natefit : 3/21/2013 12:49 pm : link
firing a warning shot to JPP: Come into camp in shape this time. As to "Useless Muscle", you can be damn sure JPP's every workout is being run by the top trainers in the biz who are doing ONLY sports specific stuff.
Ok, great.  
phil in arizona : 3/21/2013 12:50 pm : link
He doesn't look like he's in prime condition. Does anyone have a shot of what he looked like when he started to slump, months later?
My head scratcher was Jerry Reese recruiting Strahan....  
Emlen'sGremlins : 3/21/2013 12:57 pm : link
....at the beginning of this offseason to work with JPP. I understand there's probably nobody better to learn from than a future Hall of Famer at your position, but what does this say about our veterans on the D-Line and our position coach?
emlen  
Neverend : 3/21/2013 1:02 pm : link
my thoughts exactly. what cud strahan teach that tuck hasnt
Gotta be kidding me  
ghost718 : 3/21/2013 1:07 pm : link
I was expecting a little worse than what is in those pics.
Maybe Strahan has more  
spike : 3/21/2013 1:14 pm : link
Subways coupons than Tuck.
he was fat all season  
lalalalala : 3/21/2013 1:16 pm : link

when he ran hard, he jiggled. I am not exaggerating for effect
JPP whined about not having fun  
Larry in Pencilvania : 3/21/2013 1:16 pm : link
his head wasn't in the game last year either
JPP  
AcidTest : 3/21/2013 1:33 pm : link
needs to commit to the game, and realize that he can't just get by on athletic ability like he could in college.
His pre-training camp physical evaluation  
River Mike : 3/21/2013 1:42 pm : link
should include the requirement to do the same number of backflips he did as a rookie.
BB56  
old timer : 3/21/2013 2:20 pm : link
As I said, it's not the weight. It's the conditioning.

There is nothing contradictory about a guy getting naturally bigger and guys not understanding muscle versus fitness.

Sorry it went over you head.
nate  
old timer : 3/21/2013 2:24 pm : link
Unfortunately, many trainers just are not very good. Every NFL player is not working with an Olympic trainer. And, of course, there are many different theories on muscle and fitness.

Something like this happened to Tiki. He thought he needed to get stronger to play in the NFL. Instead he got bigger and lost quickness. He eventually dropped back down and became an pro bowl player.
That's not what you said last year.  
Big Blue '56 : 3/21/2013 2:28 pm : link
You said it's natural for a young man to get bigger. Implicit in that is that they are expected to fill out. You then said, nothing to see here. Obviously there was as the man you have despised from the get-go, said he was overweight..So you were wrong and JPP's play last year disproves your let's move on, nothing to see declaration..

Not my head it flew over
What's weird is that TC says he eventually did get down to 275.  
arcarsenal : 3/21/2013 3:06 pm : link
It never seemed to make a difference. He just really struggled. Especially in the 2nd half and down the stretch when he had supposedly lost the weight that was a concern to begin with.
phil  
JonC : 3/21/2013 3:15 pm : link
I was at camp, JPP was easily 300 lbs. That's ~20 lbs or more gained over the end of the prior season.

Look, for those defending him, just stop.

He is a young man, but he is also a professional athlete that needs to mature, and part of the process is learning how to eat, not get fat, and improve year after year. JPP didn't do those things as a whole in '12.
Again, I think there are a lot of other  
phil in arizona : 3/21/2013 3:15 pm : link
factors that have nothing to do with his conditioning, like having really shitty defensive tackle play next to him. I'm sure his conditioning was fine by the time he started slumping.
Emlen  
GMANinDC : 3/21/2013 3:16 pm : link
I had that same thought as you did..If you have to get a Strahan to teach him, it says alot about Osi and Tuck..

This is way I cringe every time i hear "we need to get younger"..Younger means inexperience..and it means growing pains..
The players around him slumped too  
JonC : 3/21/2013 3:17 pm : link
it certainly wasn't only JPP. Most of the team failed to show up to play last season.

But the players around him didn't open his mouth, stuff it with food, and force him to sit around and pack the extra lbs on him during the offseason.
Nope..  
BurberryManning : 3/21/2013 3:18 pm : link
I read on BBI that JPP was the best defensive player in the league and that there is no player in the NFL as valuable as him. He couldn't have had a disappointing season or poor body transformation.
I'm not saying that  
phil in arizona : 3/21/2013 3:19 pm : link
he shouldn't show up to camp in decent shape. There's no excuse to not be in shape but I think blaming his diminished stats on that is retarded considering he was most likely in better condition when he started "slumping".
Just a lesson to be learned  
mrvax : 3/21/2013 3:20 pm : link
for a young player. I think he'll do the right thing. It's very important that he has a great 2013 to "leverage" (I hate the phoney bastids using this word) his play making ability for his next contract.
Issue wasn't  
muhajir : 3/21/2013 3:21 pm : link
wait gain with JPP. It was lack of hustle and drive... the kind he had tons of in 2011
phil  
JonC : 3/21/2013 3:23 pm : link
JPP faced alot of schemes designed to slow him down, especially after teams realized how diminished Tuck and Osi were, no doubt about it. I think fans here have over-estimated the double teams he faced, as an excuse, but there was plenty of chipping and going low with blocks, etc.
muhajir  
JonC : 3/21/2013 3:23 pm : link
it was all the above.
muhajir,  
Big Blue '56 : 3/21/2013 3:24 pm : link
If you're overweight and have played a certain way at a lower weight, the things that were second nature to you get bogged down. With that comes frustration perhaps
Reese's comments from after the season  
area junc : 3/21/2013 3:26 pm : link
Quote:
"Count general manager Jerry Reese among those who took note of the "off" year that defensive end Jason Pierre-Paul had.

Speaking to Mike Francesa of WFAN radio, Reese noted that Pierre-Paul saw a lot more double-team and chip blocks than he did a year ago, and seemed to have trouble adjusting.
To help Pierre-Paul moving forward, Reese revealed that he was planning to reach out to a former Giants defensive great in hopes that Pierre-Paul might pick up some useful pointers that will help him moving forward.

"It's frustrating for a young player, but to be a superstar defensive end or pass rusher in this league, you have to beat those double-team blocks," Reese said of Pierre-Paul.
"I'm going to reach out to (defensive end) Michael Strahan this offseason to see if we can have him have some conversations with JPP and just tell him, look, it's inside your chest a lot of it, you've got to have the heart to do it. And I think he does. But I think if he hears it from somebody like Michael Strahan that will really encourage him."

Reese noted that Strahan, who in addition to being part of FOX's Sunday pregame show is also the co-host of the popular daytime program "Live with Michael and Kelly" found a way to adjust to what opponents were throwing at him and that if he can share some of that wisdom with Pierre-Paul, it might keep the young defensive end from becoming frustrated.
"After Michael became the superstar defensive end, he was getting double teamed, he was getting chipped, but he was still getting sacks," Reese noted. "So the great ones still get through there and still make plays. And (Pierre-Paul) has to do that. He can't give up, like, 'Wow, they're double teaming, they're triple teaming me, I'm getting chipped, they're high-low'ing me, they're doing everything to me.'"
Maybe the Giants should get Bloomberg to lay down a conditioning plan  
ghost718 : 3/21/2013 3:30 pm : link
They all have to be able to fit into a pair of skinny jeans, along with a v-neck t-shirt by May 10th.

Any man caught with a 20 ounce soda will have to take dancing lessons from Perry Fewell.


I think it's fair to criticize  
phil in arizona : 3/21/2013 3:30 pm : link
determination and heart to an extent.
Perfect quote are junc  
muhajir : 3/21/2013 3:39 pm : link
A 15 lb gain spread out over a 6' 6" body isn't the same as if it occurred with a standard height and body framed person... certainly could have contributed as JonC said but I suspect that was far from the issues with JPP wouldn't have led to the dramatic drop off in production and hussle.

In otherwords if he hadnt put those 15 pounds on I still think he would have had close to the same average/below average year. Reese hit it on the head with that quote. I also think as a young guy learning from the veterans around him, he was taking negative cues from Tuck and maybe a little of osi who had one foot out of the door all season.
With that,  
muhajir : 3/21/2013 3:50 pm : link
question is why did he come in over weight? It ties into his whole mind set as a player on and off the field. Hopefully he wakes up this season.
...  
SanFranGiantsFan : 3/21/2013 7:40 pm : link
He was horrible last season; a total & complete disappointment. He better get his ass in gear.
I'm not buying it either  
giantsfan227B : 3/21/2013 9:53 pm : link
From the beginning of the season he looked heavier and not muscular. Longer hair. Just looked like he was in post super-bowl hangover. Then they said back issues. Well if he was heavier that would be the case.

He needs to slim down and come with more intensity. He definitely was a disappointment.
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