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Draft Chat with Colin of the Great Blue North Draft Report

Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/21/2013 1:31 pm
Today's chat session will be conducted by Colin, editor of the Great Blue North Draft Report. Colin is a Giants fan and a long time friend and contributor of BBI.

Colin will be answering questions from 2:00 - 3:30 PM.

Colin will be cutting and pasting questions submitted by posters yesterday, and his answers to those questions, from 1:30 - 2:00 PM. Please do not post on this thread during that time! If you do, your question will be deleted.

At 2:00PM you can begin posting additional questions here for Colin to answer live.
General comment  
Colin@gbn : 3/21/2013 1:32 pm : link
Just a couple of general comments to kick things off. As I noted in an earlier thread commenting about the GBNís latest projection, right now one gets the sense there could be three general options how the draft evolves and by extension what the Giants options at #19 could look like. One is that the kind of consensus board out there which appears to have 20-21 blue-red chip type prospects is pretty accurate meaning the Giants would get a look at the 2-3 guys left in that group. The most likely possibilities in such a scenario are OG Cooper, DT Sheldon Richardson, CB Des Trufant, and maybe WR Keenan Allen. The second scenario are that the consensus board is pretty accurate but that 2-3 guys (Damontre Moore because of some really bad workouts, and Allen and Star Lotulelei drop because of injury, illness issues. Lotulelei did participate in his teamís pro day so maybe heís back in the top 10-15, but most teams likely will still be asking for more medical tests. In the latter scenario the Giants could looking at 3rd level guys which likely include DE Datone Jones, OT DJ Fluker, TE Tyler Eifert and FS Kenny Vaccaro. It also appears that LB is an emerging second-round strength, while CB is deep right thru the 3-5 rounds. The 3rd scenario is that the consensus type board isn't all that accurate and that NFL teams actually have first round grades on several under the radar types at least when it comes to the first round and guys who could actually be up in the 20-30 area might include are DEs Carradine and Hunt, DT Short, WRs Hunter, Woods and Hopkins, and OT Menelik Watson. Time will tell.

At the same time, my sense is that heading into the draft the Giants really want to add a DE in the first two rounds and the three guys they may be targeting are Jones, Carradine and Hunt. One of the problems is that if they don't get one in the first round they may have to trade up in the 2nd to ensure getting one of the three. And while LB has not been a prime draft position for years its not hard to figure they will probably want to come away with a 3-down LB with in rounds 2-3 with Khaseem Greene and Arthur Brown two of the most likely targets. One would also suspect that CB will also be a priority in rounds 2-3 with quality guys at the position likely to be available in both rounds.

The astute observe will notice a trend in the above that its defense, defense, defense which shouldnít surprise anyone given the fact that the Giants were a very un-Giants like 31st in total defense in the league last fall. With at least a couple of starting spots still very much up in the air, the offensive line also still needs some work. How the Giants resolve that situation may be the most interesting development this spring.

Bottom line is that the Giants drafting philosophy for more than a decade had been based on a couple of basic principles. First and foremost, impact players win championships. And because impact players are very difficult to find in free agency, as much as possible you use your premium draft picks to get those impact players. On the other hand, the blue-collar positions (including G/C and RT which also generally have a relatively long learning curve in the NFL) can usually be filled by functional - and often relatively cheap - veteran free agents.

As noted, how the Giants address the OL in the next 5-6 weeks will tell a lot about how the organization is going to go forward in a broader sense, but the thinking here is that the Giants will ultimately stick to their basic philosophy and will continue to address the OL through free agency. They have an offer on the table for Boothe and one would expect if he doesnít take it they slot that money to another free agent. At the same time, figure the Giants bring another vet OL or two like Sean Locklear last year later this spring once the free agent market goes flat.

At the same time, though, we would expect the Giants to use another mid-round pick in the 4-5 area to add a little more depth up front especially a young C/G. That said, one never wants to say never and one would not want to rule out the Giants taking an offensive lineman in the opening three rounds if presented with an opportunity to take a highly rated guy they feel has the potential to be a 5-10 starter and Pro Bowl candidate such as Jon Cooper in the opening round if he were to be available at #19. We just donít think the Giants head into the draft looking to take on OL all that early.
Qs 1-5  
Colin@gbn : 3/21/2013 1:35 pm : link
Klaatu: Stevie Brown will be a UFA. Ryan Mundy is a career back-up, and the same could be said about Tyler Sash. With that in mind, do you think the Giants should give Safety a higher priority in the upcoming draft, and if so, who do you think would be a good fit for them?

Good question about the safety situation Klaatu; I would expect the Giants to address the position at some point in the draft although they may feel that they have enough functional bodies to force a pick early. The one exception might be someone like Jon Cyprien in the second or Shamarko Thomas in the 3rd. Fresnoís Phillip Thomas isnít real fast, but is quick and instinctive and could get a look in the 4th while Earl Wolff and Keelan Johnson could be good value in later rounds. Whatever, if the Giants do take a S early on then I would expect it would be a guy who can run. That said, I donít see Kenny Vaccaro being a real option in the first; solid player with good instincts and ball skills, but not real quick or fast and will end up more as a SS. Nothing wrong with that, but probably not worth a top 20 pick.

Chris R: What are your thoughts on Arthur Brown at MLB in the 4-3? Where do you think he'll be drafted and is there any chance he could be the Giants pick at 19?

I think NFL teams think that Brown could play as 4-3 inside guy but just about everybody is going to work him as a WLB first. As per above I would expect him to be a mid-second rounder and I would not be surprised if the Giants have him and Khaseem Greene targeted as targets at #49 especially if they have gotten their DE at #19.

Big Blue: I see a lot of analysts stating that Ogletree is the #1 ILB in this class and projecting him to the Giants. They marvel at his athletic ability. His combine #'s were not overly impressive and after watching some highlights of him, I came away unimpressed with him. Arthur Brown is short, but he was much more impressive with his athleticism in my opinion. Brown seems short for a Giants type LB. What is the deal with Ogletree? I am just not seeing it.

We actually had the Giants taking him at #19 in a couple of our earlier mocks, but not so much now; heís a converted safety who isnít going to be that physical at the point of attack, but he is very quick, aggressive and explosive, although I really expected him to run in the 4.55 range, so that 4.7 at the combine was a disappointment; the big issue with Ogletree though is maturity or lack thereof; we have been told that he came across as one of the most immature kids teams have ever interviewed at the combine, which ainít good when you have a bunch of off-field issues on your docket. Bottom line kid is one of those Ďmillion dollar talents with a 5-cent brainí who could go almost anywhere in the first couple of days at this yearís draft and it wouldnít surprise me if the Giants took him off their board entirely.
Qs 6-10  
Colin@gbn : 3/21/2013 1:37 pm : link
Jlukes: Which positions will have quality players sitting there in the middle rounds while other positions have most of their talent gone after the 1st round or two?

Good question! The intriguing thing about this yearís draft is that while there are some questions at the top of the board, there appears to be a ton of depth pretty much right across the board. The deepest position this year may be at CB where it appears there will be quality prospects right through the 5th; there is also good depth at WR, OT, and the defensive line, especially DE and its not bad at safety and OG. Indeed, the only position without a lot of depth maybe the 4-3, OLBs and C. Probably donít need to make the point though at a position like DE that while there will some intriguing developmental types in from the third round on, you really have to get someone early if you want them to come in and contribute right away.

Bob/Chris et al Re Alabama OT RJ Fluker Ö intriguing guy because of his size and strength and given his experience at Alabama he is about as pro ready as anyone. However, there are real questions about his ability to consistently cut the edge at the next level that really wonĎt be answered until he gets to a pro camp, but a lot of teams are already figuring that he likely will have to move inside at the next level. In particular, Fluker just engulfs people when he gets his hands on them, but he becomes a bit of a fish out of water if he has to track anyone in space; there are also questions about his weight control down the road and the fact that he really didnít consistently play hard until the latter part of the 2012 season. Personally I donít see him as a prime target for the Giants although he is one of several third-tier guys who will be there at #19.

Semiprolineman: I believe with David Wilson becoming the starter, the Giants will pull their guards even more than they have in the past few seasons. The one thing I'm not sure that Booth does well are long pulls. (note: I did see a few examples of Booth pulling in the David Wilson highlight video so I might be dead wrong about this.) So my question is, which guards and tackles likely to be converted to guard prospects do you feel excel at both the point of attack and on the move in the manner that Snee and Seubert had for years?

Really interesting point re Wilson and LG however I have seen almost no evidence under TC that the Giants do much in the way of adapting their offense to particular playerís skills so I am not sure that will be a major factor. That said, there are a number of good second-tier OGs with nice quickness who will be available in the middle rounds including guys like Hugh Thornton of Illinois, JC Tretter of Cornell, and Alvin Bailey of Aransas and Cal C Brian Schwenke. Interesting later round prospect is Ohio OG Eric Herman.
More comments  
Colin@gbn : 3/21/2013 1:39 pm : link
Armstead: Biggest reach of the opening round:

Tough to call but how about Buffalo trades back up into the opening round to get Ryan Nassib

Optimus: What Offensive Tackles will be available in the 2nd round at pick #49 for the Giants to choose from that are system fits (Dallas Thomas perhaps)? What Guards will be there for the Giants to choose from in round #3 with the 81st pick that are system fits (Brian Winters perhaps)?

Certainly Thomas (although he has a bad shoulder which could drop him a round or two), along with Terron Armstead, Justin Pugh, and Kyle Long would be in the mix in the middle of the second round if one wanted to go that way, while Winters looks to one of very few OG options in the third.

Another Giants fan (and Jayg5): It seems like the guys who were first considered "blue chippers" just shy of the Combine have now fallen due to either medical/injury concerns or just meh Combine numbers. Now that guys like Jarvis Jones, Bjoern Werner, Star Lotulelei and Damontre Moore have fell down the draft board...which do you see the Giants actually having a chance of getting and which do you see as both great value and a good fit for this team?

To be honest guys like that make me (and I suspect the Giants) very nervous. You donít mind a guy who drops a bit simply because of the numbers game or other factors (like Prince in 2011) and this year the Giants would be very happy I suspect if a Jon Cooper or Sheldon Richardson were to drop to #19 because some blue/red chippers have to fall. Those other guys I refer to as Ďpyrrhic victoryí types in that you really didnít just get lucky but that other teams passed on them for good reason. In the group you mention I doubt Jones falls to the Giants and if he did it would be because there is indeed a serious medical issue; same for Lotulelei. And unless Moore was hurt when he ran at the combine not sure the Giants want a 4.95 DE with the 19th pick although its hard to argue with his productivity against SEC competition. And to be honest I really donít know what the Giants would make of Werner if he were to drop, which isnít out of the question. Again very productive guy, but the lack of quick-twitch explosion is worrisome.
More comments  
Colin@gbn : 3/21/2013 1:41 pm : link
Vegas Steve: With 2 holes on the OL (LG and RT) the giants seem intent on ingoring these in FA; while these are obvious needs how likely is it the giants draft one of the top CBs in round 1 while address the OL later in the draft; is Fluker worth #19 (My view is a plug and play potential Pro bowler is worth it what yours); LT Brian Winters seems to be under rate by my fellow giant fans. I believe he can move inside and play LG at a high level and step in (case of injuries) play LT; My question is what is your opinion on his ability to play RT?

Steve, as noted above I am not sure the Giants are ignoring the OL in free agency so much as they are a) waiting for the Boothe situation to work itself and b) for the FA market to cool down before making a move(s). Fluker is kind of a bubble guy when it comes to being a top 20 candidate. Heís not a blue/red chip guy, but is probably in the third tier and I suppose would be worth a top 20 pick if some of the actual blue/red chip guys like Jones and Lotulelei were indeed to slip if a team wanted to go that way. Winters is a good player who probably could play OT in a pinch but heís got very short arms and isnít all that strong.

Acid test: What do you think of Brandon Williams, the DT from Missouri Southern State? Would he still be available in the third round? He looks like a good run stuffer with surprising agility for such a large man.

Surprised there arenít more questions about DT. Williams seems to be rising and right now looks to be a late second, or early third prospect but mostly as a NT. Big guy who can take on blockers and is tough to move but isnít going to get much up field push. As such he likely wouldnít be a three-down type for the Giants and I donít see them using a top 100 pick on a 2-down guy.

Klaatu: Two guys that raised their stock at the Senior Bowl and Combine in Georgia DE Cornelius Washington (Played a lot of 5-tech in Georgia's 3-4 and did not rack up numbers like Jones and Ogletree, but at the Senior Bowl he showed what he could do as a DE in a 4-3, and was every bit as impressive as Ansah coming off the edge. Followed that up by absolultely blowing up the Combine) and UT-Martin DT Montori Hughes (A huge guy with surprising athleticism, good balance, and quick feet. He ran a 5.23 40 at 329 pounds and drew some comparsons to Dontari Poe.) My question is...has their stock risen enough to warrant consideration in the 2nd or 3rd rounds, or will their off-the-field concerns relegate them to the later rounds?

Klaatu - you again! Both guys appear to be early third day guys as of now but could go a little higher to a team that saw them as a good foot. CW is a whirling dervish type with good athletic skills who is very effective playing a wide-9 type DE where he gets a running start, but has been far less productive when he has to line up over an OT; as such I think he gets a 3rd round call from a 3-4 team as an pass rushing OLB; we actually had Hughes as the Giants 4th round pick in our last mock (the 4th round wasnít posted), but heís another 2-down who could get an earlier call as a pure NT.
And even more comments  
Colin@gbn : 3/21/2013 1:42 pm : link
Mark: Ownership has said they want both lines to improve this year. I anticipate them to draft some linemen in the first three rounds. My question to you is what linemen should be there in Rounds 4-7 that could help the Giants out this year (guys sliding in that range that you show having more value).

My general thoughts on the OL and the draft are documented above; too it is very rare to get an OL taken in the third day that can come in and contribute;

Tommy Boy; Milton; Torrag; JOMO; Island Jay et al who asked about DE Ö

As stated in the intro the gut feeling here is that the Giants would really like to come out of the first two rounds of this yearís draft with a quality DE. Their whole mantra on defense is rush the passer and they didnít get it last year. The further gut feeling here is that based on the kind of DEs the Giants like the guys they very well may be targeting in the first three rounds are Datone Jones, Margus Hunt and Tank Carradine. None of three is generally considered to be a top 20 prospect on the consensus draft gurus board, although Jones is close. However, last I heard the Giants actually use their own board, not the consensus board and a guy like Carradine, who likely would have been a top 10 prospect had he not hurt the knee and may have the most upside of any 4-3 DE in this yearís draft, could be a sleeper. The issue for the Giants is that if they donít get their DE in the first, they may have to trade up in the second because there is a better than even chance none of those three is on the board at #49.

At the same time, Werner and Damontre Moore are out there and are something of wild cards. Werner likely would have to be in the mix if he were there at #19, but again its worrisome because it means he would have fallen from #2 overall less than 6 weeks ago not because the Giants were lucky but because other teams have real concerns about his lack of prototype length and explosion for an edge rusher. Moore is even more of an enigma. On tape he looks like a top 5 guy; heís long, slippery and relentless, but thereís that 4.95 business and you wonder how a 250-pound guy with that kind of speed is going to beat quality NFL OTs on a consistent basis. Plus with Moore you wonder if he fits what the Giants are probably looking for in a DE - heís not very physical against the run and will never be able to slide inside on passing downs - such that one wonders that the Giants might actually have passed even if he ran a 4.60. Bottom line Iíd really like to be able to tell people where these guys are worth or where they are going to go, but Iíd be lying because I donít think anybody really knows at this point.
And more  
Colin@gbn : 3/21/2013 1:44 pm : link
Jay in TO Ö Who do you think are the three top players on the first line of the Giants' board that have a realistic chance of being there at #19?

Of the red chip guys who could fall to the Giants I suspect that Cooper and Trufant are 1 and 1a with Richardson at #3 on their short list.

ColHowPepper: Is there an OL projected to go in the first three rounds (and you believe he merits that ranking) whom the Giants might grab because of his versatility, i.e., ability to play C as well as G or G and T and because of that versatility, believe he moves up the Giants' board?

Usually when one talks about an OL with versatility itís a RT who might not make at that spot but could move inside and I donít thing generally teams draft a guy (at least early) because of his versatility; bottom line no matter how versatile he can still only play one position at a time. If there is a guy who maybe fits that bill in the middle rounds it might be Cal C Brian Schwenke who can also play OG. Smart, feisty kid with good strength agility and intensity.

YatQB ... What are your thoughts on David Amerson, and do you feel that he'll be there for us in the 2nd? Also, aside from Fluker, what players do you view as the top RT prospects in this year's draft who would fit the Giants' scheme?

Amerson is an interesting prospect as the Giants have often gone after guys like him who had disappointing final years of eligibility, but were much better in previous years; he certainly has great tools including excellent speed and ball skills as well as an aggressive demeanor, but he really lost focus last year trying to replicate what he did in 2011 when he had 13 picks. Have to figure he would be in the mix for the Giants at #49 at CB along with guys like Jamar Taylor and maybe Darius Slay of Mississippi State who could ultimately go earlier than his more heralded former teammate Jonathan Banks who lacks top-end recovery speed, although he has all the other tools. To be honest I donít expect the Giants to see Fluker as a prototype RT because of his lack of recovery ability in pass pro. I also expect that if they take an OT it will in the later rounds and there are actually a bunch that might fit the bill.

Island Jay Ö Where do you see Tyrann Mathieu going in the draft and do you believe the Giants would be interested if he were available in round 3? The Giants always seem to take a chance on player with character concerns after they have done their homework on them. It has worked out pretty well so far with Bradshaw, Will Hill, Jayron Hosley, etc.

I think the proverbial Honey Badger goes late third or early 4th but I doubt the Giants have a ton of interest simply because heís not going to do much more for you than what you want Hosley to do in that he is a pure slot corner.
Colin@gbn : 3/21/2013 1:47 pm : link
Vince: My Question are " "What do you think will be the change in the line play with you in there? "

Given the fact I weigh 132 pounds soaking wet I suspect thereĎd be a lot more praying going on, especially by #10! (True story I actually interviewed David Baas at the Senior Bowl who was the biggest guy I had ever stood next to - he literally blocked out the sun; I said to myself the guy has to be twice my size; then did the math and it was closer to three times!)

NY Giant Fan 84: Who is your projected Mr. Irrelevant for this year?

How about Harvard FB Kyle Juszcyzk - heíd at least give Luck someone he could have a decent conversation with!

Milton: Re: evaluating the prospects--what do you know now that you didn't know five or ten years ago? I do try and do some post-draft analysis to see where we went wrong and the more I learn the more I realize how much we donít know. The bottom line is the draft is a big huge lottery where even the teams are really just rolling the dice and hoping. Its kind of like analyzing Texas Holdíem and trying to predict which hand will win pre-flop!

What lessons have you learned from past surprises? Never say never!

When it comes to being a draftnik, who were your greatest influences? Of today's draftniks, who's work do you respect the most?

He doesnít get much love these days but getting stuff from Kiper back in the early 1980s made a huge difference in what I could do back then. Also met Joel Bushbaum a couple of times before he passed away and really admired his incredible knowledge and passion for the business. If I had to consult just one guy today I think it would be Rob Rang at CBS sports although I respect just about everyone out there for trying and doing something they obviously love.
PS I get paid by the word so ...  
Colin@gbn : 3/21/2013 1:49 pm : link
Mr. Nickels: DE Werner and DT Lotoleili are both available who do the Giants go with? Pipeline that DE to replace Tuck or grab the DT even though they just added Jenkins to guard against Joseph's free agency

As noted already if either guy is there at #19 its because there is some element of damaged goods so the Giants wouldnít necessarily take either. Lotulelei is the much better prospect but if heís still there at #19 it means other teams have real concerns about his health so youíd figure the Giants would too. Wernerís more of an enigma in thatís he was productive in college but lacks the length and explosion I suspect the Giants are looking for in a future LDE.

Danbury Joe: I like you have slated Datone Jones at 19 for us. Can you give a brief scouting report on him, his strong and weak points. I would also like to know what you think about Dallas Thomas with our 49th pick, he seems to be a versatile lineman who can play both G/T spots, reminds me a little of a younger Dave Dhiel. Thoughts? Thanks again for all your contributions.

Jones reminds me in many ways of a young Strahan; heís not super fast, but is quick, strong, and relentless, has some flexibility and can change direction, plus heís a good run defender and can slide inside on passing downs. If healthy Thomas might be worth a poke at #49, but heís rehabbing from a bad shoulder and likely wonít be ready until camp meaning he likely will drop a round or two because of the injury.

Real: The Giants have always had close ties with Pittsburgh (e.g. Rooney Mara). Do you think there is a better than usual chance that the Giants trade with the Steelers (17) to get pick 17 and move ahead of Dallas (Pick 18) and pick Warmack if he is still there at 17?

I doubt very much that Warmack is available anywhere near #17; however, you might have an interesting situation if Cooper of Trufant were still there at #17 in which the Giants just might be tempted to trump Jerry! On the other hand, seeing a deflated Jerry is one of the saddest sites in the NFL. (One more true story: I also got to talk to Mr Jones for a couple of minutes at a Senior Bowl; he was just sitting in the stands by himself and I introduced myself and asked if I could ask a couple of questions. To be honest he could not have been more accommodating, polite and respectful)

Rick in Dallas: (is that you lurking Rick Gosselin?) do you see Ryan Swope or Sean Porter as potential targets for the Giants in the third or fourth round? Watched alot of A&M football this past year and both of those players had excellent years.

Absolutely; two really good football players; Swope is an anomaly in thatís he a possession receiver with real jets, while Porter is also a good athlete who would be a nice addition if the Giants didnít get a WLB in Rds 2-3.
Colin@gbn : 3/21/2013 1:51 pm : link
Jbintherockies: In your opinion, who are the top-20 players in this year's draft?

The consensus blue/red chip guys at this time include QB Geno Smith, WRs Cordarelle Patterson, Tavon Austin and Keenan Allen, OTs Joeckel, Fisher and Lane Johnson, OGs Warmack and Cooper; DE Werner; hybrid DEs Ansah, Dion Jordan, Mingo, LB Jarvis Jones, DTs Floyd, Lotulelei and Richardson and CBs Milliner, Rhodes and Trufant. The wild cards are Jones, Lotulelei and Allen given their health concerns.

Imyrpc66: Do you see a scenario where the Giants would take a late-round flier on a quarterback they could develop? If so, who would you go with?

One never wants to say never and a kid like Brad Sorenson of S Utah who has a really nice arm might be too good to pass with a late pick, but you are talking about using a pick on a kid who is probably going to go on your practice squad.

BigBlueBluff (boatie too): What are your thoughts about where Kevin Bostic might end up in this draft? If the Giants don't take a middle linebacker earlier, in which round might he emerge as a BPA candidate at a position in need of an upgrade?

Good ? Bluff altho I am assuming you are referring to Jon Bostic heís an underrated guy who can run and is the kind of guy the Giants have drafted in the past in the 4-5 area; personally I donít see the Giants taking a MLB early - I think they really want a WLB guy who can make impact plays but there are several inside athletic inside guys who will be available in the third including Bostic, Jon Stewart of Texas A&M, and a bit of a sleeper in Brandon Hepburn of Fla A&M

Klattu: Sio Moore and Trevardo Williams. Where do you see them going, and would either (or both) be good fits for the Giants?

Very nice players who can run; I think Moore might actually be a bit of a sleeper in the second for the Giants; good athlete with decent instincts. Williams may actually be faster but heís more an up field 3-4 edge rusher although he did show decent range in the Senior Bowl playing as a regular OLB.
This is it promise!  
Colin@gbn : 3/21/2013 1:53 pm : link
BlueLou, Blueblood, Kwall and PeterS: various questions re TE

Interesting year at TE however since signing Brandon Myers, arguably the best receiving TE the Giants will have had since the early Shockey days I suspect they are pretty comfortable with their TE/FB rotation of Myers, Robinson, Pascoe and Hynoski and likely wonít be looking at the position early on anyway especially if they think Robinson has some potential. . What they might do is bring in a blocking specialist like UCLAís Joseph Fauria or Michael Williams of Alabama for depth with a late rounder or even in free agency but barring injury that would be another player likely headed for the PS.

Ed A: very thin at Defensive Tackle. Besides Joseph and Jenkins, Rogers is coming off the blood clot, Kuhn will start the season on PUP and Austin is unproven. Who do you see falling at DT? Is there a chance Richardson will be there?

Trying to figure out what the Giants will do at DT is hard because in their scheme DT is not really a three-down position. Plus with the addition of Jenkins who can play on third downs anybody they bring is only going to be a rotational guy for at least a year or two. That said they are thin behind Joseph and Jenkins and probably would like to add another body at least somewhere in the first 4-5 rounds of the draft. It would certainly be a possibility that Richardson could be there at #19, although I am not sure heís ideal for what they are looking. Heís quick, but not really all that big and probably doesnít bring to the table a lot more than Jenkins. Meanwhile, a number of DTs being mentioned on the BBI like the WilliamsĎ - Jesse, Sly and Brandon - John Jenkins, and Montari Hughes are big NT types who would help the run defense but arenít likely to play much in passing situations so I donĎt see the Giants forcing an early pick there. One guy we kind of like in the 4th round area is Jordan Hill of Penn State while there a couple of intriguing later round small school sleepers in Jared Smith of UNH and Nick Williams of Samford.

Kingblue et al re the secondary Ö

This is another tough area to get a real feel where the Giants they are at these days. At CB by bringing back Ross they probably have enough to win with next year, but its also an area they really could use better players. As such one would have to figure that Des Trufant and Xavier Rhodes would be in the mix if they were on the board at #19. Rhodes, though, is a pure press guy who isnít very good at all in zone so may not be a very good fit with the Giants. On the other hand Trufant isnít as big or physical but he is very quick and aggressive with good ball skills. He also has that íjust try and throw it my wayí cockiness that teams like in a CB (and Prince doesnít really have.) The good news for the Giants is that CB is probably the deepest position in the draft with guys like Amerson, Jamar Taylor of Boise and maybe Darius Slay of Miss State likely to be potential targets in the 2nd and Robert Alford, Dwayne Gratz and Logan Ryan in the 3rd. Plus you can probably gets guys in the 4-5 area that can come in and give you improved depth reasonably early on.

Similar story at safety where the Giants can live with Rolle, Brown, Hill and Mundy for now, but again could use a talent upgrade. S Kenny Vaccaro looks to be one of a handful of guys in the third tier that the Giants could look at if the blue-red chip guys are all gone; heís a physical guy with good instincts however he doesnít run all that well and is never likely going to be much help in man coverage and I really wonder if the Giants want to invest a top 20 pick in a safety that isnít fast. Like corner though there is some pretty good depth at safety (though not as much as at CB) with guys like Jon Cyprien and LSUĎs Eric Reid (2nd) and Shamarko Thomas and maybe Phillip Thomas (3rd) figuring in the second day mix. Plus there are a bunch of decent third-day safeties.

Finally there were also questions about several individuals worth a comment:

Barrett Jones - teams like his versatility and he could end up being a guy you can plug in at C or OG and youíll have a steady 10-year starter, but heís also a guy who may be way overrated because he played on 3 national champions. Jones is smart and technically solid, but he isnít all that big and he really isnít all that good an athlete; as such he is not going to a road grader and will actually be somewhat limited in space at the next level. And as such Iíd be surprised if the Giants used a second day pick on a guy whose skills set isnít a whole lot more than what they could get from a moderately priced vet free agent.

Menelik Watson - Former basketball player from England with very good body control and lateral agility but are the Giants really going to be willing to have a guy who has played 20 football games in his entire life protecting one of the Eliís edges??

Marquess Wilson - Plenty of options at the WR in the later rounds that one probably doesnít need to go looking for head cases.
That's all folks  
Colin@gbn : 3/21/2013 1:54 pm : link
Appreciate it everyone took a couple of minutes to read the above so we don't duplicate a lot and then we can start with the questions. Thanks cl
Awsome job...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/21/2013 2:03 pm : link
on all of those questions already Colin!
Are we seeing an evolution with Guards?  
Klaatu : 3/21/2013 2:03 pm : link
Rarely thought of as first-round picks, are kids like Warmack and Cooper anomolies, or will we see more Guards rising up draft boards in the future?
Thanks Colin.  
JWBlue : 3/21/2013 2:04 pm : link
Colin@gbn : 3/21/2013 2:06 pm : link
Klaatu: Time will tell but my sense is that they may be anomalies.
No question  
English Alaister : 3/21/2013 2:06 pm : link
But just wanted to say Colin you are a legend! So great for BBI that you share so much so freely with us. Big thanks.
hey Al  
Colin@gbn : 3/21/2013 2:07 pm : link
Nice to hear from you; no question I am a legend in my own mind!
Bubba Raybeen : 3/21/2013 2:09 pm : link
Colin -- do you think there are any interesting options at RB this year for the Giants in the later rounds? Or do you believe the Giants feel comfortable with what they have now?
Thanks Colin  
AnotherGiantsFan : 3/21/2013 2:11 pm : link
Appreciate you going through all of this.

The Giants have a lot of big contracts they are going to have to give out, which means in another year or so some of our expensive positions (Safety, OL) are gonna have to come cheap through the draft.

What do you think of Matt Elam as a Rolle replacement down the line? Do you think it's possible his height could have him fall to us in the 2nd?

A guy I feel like hasn't been talked about enough around here is UNC OT Brennan Williams. Has that athletic build with long arms and is a great run blocker for RT. What do you think of him as a prospect and where do you see him going in the draft?
Colin@gbn : 3/21/2013 2:12 pm : link
Bubba: I suspect the Giants are pretty comfortable with what they have but RBs take such a pounding that one can never have enough and I could see them adding one late or in FA. One guy I like is Zac Stacy from Vandy who is a tough inside runner who can block.
thanks again for doing this Colin  
WeatherMan : 3/21/2013 2:12 pm : link
any thoughts on kickers in the later rounds of this draft? We saw a couple rookies make an impact last year, and both Sturgis and Hopkins have been touted by some as draftable prospects.
Specific RBs  
njm : 3/21/2013 2:13 pm : link
Knile Davis, Rex Burkhead

Will Davis' combine performance get him into the 3rd? Burkhead in the 5th or 6th?
Colin-- any news re  
bob in tx : 3/21/2013 2:13 pm : link
whether Chris Faulk is improving?
AnishPatel : 3/21/2013 2:14 pm : link
I am just curious regarding your process of scouting for you or others that are involved. Do you get your tape for analysis from the schools directly? If not, do you record games and go off the tv telecast? I am curious because I did a lot of scouting but chose to focus more on the Xs and Os, however, the process of going about it and the forms used interests me. I have a lot of scouting stuff in binders collecting dust, but I do like to talk to people who scout, to understand their "process", if you will, on scouting and breaking down tape for analysis on players.

Another fan  
Colin@gbn : 3/21/2013 2:15 pm : link
Indeed, the Giants could use some young talent in the secondary but Elam is one of those tweener guys who'll be too rich for #19 but won't last much past the first few picks in the second. Good thing though is there are other options at the position later in the second day as noted.
Thanks so much Colin  
Jay on the Island : 3/21/2013 2:15 pm : link
I look forward to this all year. What are your thoughts on De Malliciah Goodman from Clemson? What round do you think he is going in and would the Giants be interested?
Weather man  
Colin@gbn : 3/21/2013 2:20 pm : link
Are you the guy to blame for this frigging winter we can't get rid of up here! Don't see the Giants taking a PK after signing Brown but could sign a FA to give him a break in camp ... Bob - sorry meant to answer that earlier; the simple answer is no but he is the kind of guy who the Giants had taken in the 3-4 range in the past as he was a top 15-20 guy heading into the season and might be worth the wait ... NJM Davis could be a steal in the later rounds though I don't see the Giants going any earlier than the 5th on him given his injury history; Burkhead is an honest back but ultimately just a guy.
Colin@gbn : 3/21/2013 2:23 pm : link
Goodman would be a potential 3rd round target if the Giants somehow didn't get a DE in the first two rounds. Has some potential to be a rotational guy but lacks the upside of guys like Jones, Hunt and Caradine.
Giantology : 3/21/2013 2:25 pm : link
Any thoughts on DE Mike Catapano (Princeton) or RB Miguel Maysonet (Stony Brook)?
Colin@gbn : 3/21/2013 2:25 pm : link
I watch a ton of tape but mostly of the TV; if there is a guy I really want to see who just doesn't get on TV I will try and get tape from the school but its usually a bother. And truth be told I don't much care what I think about a guy; what I really care about is what NFL people think about him so I spend almost as much time trying to talk to people and read as much as I can. Guess I am more a GM guy than a scout per se...
Thanks again Colin  
Jay on the Island : 3/21/2013 2:26 pm : link
I want the Giants to take Carradine in round 1.
AcidTest : 3/21/2013 2:26 pm : link
again for doing this Colin.

How much is Banks going to be hurt by his poor 40 times? Is he now a second round pick? Is #19 too high for him?
Colin@gbn : 3/21/2013 2:28 pm : link
Good call; like both those guys as developmental types in the later rounds or FA especially Catapano who I though was really impressive the all-star game. And Maysonet is a nice sized guy who outplayed the big-name D1A transfer (whose name escapes me for the moment)last year.
AnishPatel : 3/21/2013 2:30 pm : link
Yeah I head heard getting tape from colleges is a pain in the ass. That's another reason why i focused on Xs and Os. I feel like in order for me to be accurate as possible, I must have all the information. I couldn't do that so that was bothersome.

Thanks though and keep up the good work. I know that all this is very time consuming, which can be fun if you love it. Good luck to you man!
Giantology : 3/21/2013 2:30 pm : link
Agreed, I'd be willing to risk a pick in rounds 5-7 rather than battling other teams to sign them as UDFAs. Much appreciate your time today! The draft is my favorite part of the offseason.
Colin--might Tyler Wilson  
bob in tx : 3/21/2013 2:32 pm : link
drop into 4th round?
Colin@gbn : 3/21/2013 2:33 pm : link
There is this little voice in my head that keeps repeating 'don't be surprised if the Tank is the pick at 19'. Its still a longshot but as noted I think he has the most upside of any of the DEs in this year's draft. Acid, Banks is one of those guys that is hard to get a read on right now; he was another tweener guy who I don't he was ever going to be a factor at #19, but that speed could drop him significantly like into the early third although he was very productive in the SEC, but I would think even if he were there at #49 the Giants would lean more toward guys like Amerson, Taylor and his former teammate Slay.
Tyler Wilson  
Colin@gbn : 3/21/2013 2:35 pm : link
He's a wild card in that he could as early as the early second when you figure there'll be a run on QBs or slip into the latter part of the second day especially if there are lingering concerns about his health.
From what you gather...  
Dunedin81 : 3/21/2013 2:35 pm : link
is Tank likely to be ready to go come training camp? Thanks
Sorry to hijack this thread  
Jay on the Island : 3/21/2013 2:36 pm : link
But what is the status of Marcus Lattimore? Where do you see him going in the draft. I didn't see anyone ask about him thus far.
Colin@gbn : 3/21/2013 2:39 pm : link
Damn things! From what I hear Tank may not be ready for the opening of camp but has a chance to play early on next season. Hard to know about Lattimore who suffered a really gruesome injury but he's a tough kid and what we are hearing someone likely will take a flyer on him in the 4-5 area unless the med reports are really bad.
Mark from Jersey : 3/21/2013 2:40 pm : link
I am excited to read from your comments that the Giants may be high on Cooper. I've looked at him a little after his combine, where I thought he shined, and think he is a better fit for this OL than Warmack would be.

Can you give us some of your personal opinion regarding Cooper, what you see has his strengths and why he would be a solid fit to the OL.

P.S. Thanks for responding to my question earlier.
Would appreciate any insight/thoughts you may have on...  
M.S. : 3/21/2013 2:41 pm : link
...the Tar Heel team mates Kevin Reddick and Sylvester Williams.

Thanks so much.
Gavin Escobar or  
bob in tx : 3/21/2013 2:41 pm : link
Travis Kelce as better fit for NYG?
LaRoy Reynolds of UVA...  
Dunedin81 : 3/21/2013 2:42 pm : link
you had a nice blurb about him in your Pro Day Updates, still looking at him as a 6-7th rounder?
Colin@gbn : 3/21/2013 2:44 pm : link
Mark: As I said earlier I don't put a whole lot of stock in my own opinion but I think Warmack is a tad overrated; no question he's a roadgrader but he just doesn't move all that well and on most teams he is going to be locked in at RG; on the other hand, we really like Cooper who can move and make blocks in space and would be a much better fit at LG. Plus Cooper really bursts off the line of scrimmage and has excellent strength. Again I don't expect the Giants to go into the draft looking to add a rook along the OL but Cooper could be just too good a value to pass on.
Giantsfan79 : 3/21/2013 2:47 pm : link
if you had the say which player who likely will be gone by 19 would you trade up for if any?
TE Coach Mike Pope is rumored to be enamored with  
Jay on the Island : 3/21/2013 2:48 pm : link
TE Dion Sims. What can you tell us about Sims and is he expected to go in rounds 4-5 as rumored?
Colin@gbn : 3/21/2013 2:51 pm : link
M.S.... Sly Williams is an interesting guy in that he projects primarily to NT at the next level but has enough athleticism that he could also play in a 4-3 although in the Giants scheme likely only would be a 2-down type. Plus we're hearing he's another tweener who likely will go early in the second. Reddick on the other hand is the best MLB prospect other than the big name guys (te'o, Ogletree and Minter) and just might be an option for the Giants in the 3rd. He doesn't test all that well but is very instinctive. Texas Bob, I think Kelce would be a better fit as he can block whereas Escobar is really an H-back type; as noted earlier though I don't think the Giants take a TE anywhere near as early as those guys are going to go after signing Myers. Dunedin: Reynolds, who reminds me just a bit of J Williams likely won't be drafted but would be a nice FA.
AcidTest : 3/21/2013 2:54 pm : link
question, but what do you know about QB Peter Lalich? Booted from UVA and Oregon State for alcohol problems, but has done well at California University of Pennsylvania. 6-5, 235, and can throw 70+ yards. I admit I'm interested because he went to my high school, but is he a just a priority FA?
Trades and TEs  
Colin@gbn : 3/21/2013 2:58 pm : link
GFan: Doesn't matter who I'd trade up for, but the two guys that might be possibilities for the Giants are Cooper and Trufant. Cooper is just a rare talent that if he should somehow get past ST Louis at 16 then they just might be tempted to pull the trigger if nothing else to trump Dallas. Trufant is also a possibilty although he's something of a different case in that one can get a CB who can contribute in subsequent rounds. Jay ... heard that too but remember Pope really really liked Fleener last year and not much came of it; Sims is an intriguing guy though he can block, but is also a better than advertised athlete.
Crazy QBs  
Colin@gbn : 3/21/2013 3:03 pm : link
Acid: No question Lalich can throw the ball; probably could even handle the Hankensack winds; doesn't move all that well and throws a few too many picks when pressured but could be a prime FA as we hear he has kind of cleaned up his life a tad.
Hi Colin  
Modus Operandi : 3/21/2013 3:05 pm : link
Thanks for taking the time to answer our questions. Any thoughts on WR Josh Boyce out of TCU?
Hey Colin - Gio Bernard  
Spark Em Up 22 : 3/21/2013 3:07 pm : link
Where do you see him being drafted and would it be unreasonable for the NYG to target him on day 2? I know we don't really NEED a running back but this kid is lightning and a Sproles type that looks like he can be a game changer on special teams at the least.
Reb8thVA : 3/21/2013 3:08 pm : link
What is your take on Alvin Bailey? Would he be a good fit for the Giants? What round is he likely to go?
jayg5 : 3/21/2013 3:11 pm : link
Obviously this is just my opinion but I don't believe cb should be considered at 19. Do you think Trufant is that high on our board? We proved we can win with decent to above average cb's but great pass rush. Unless a player has skills like Deion Sanders or Revis cb then I take him round 1 but we need pass rushers
Colin@gbn : 3/21/2013 3:12 pm : link
Modus: Interesting who the Giants could look at in the 3-4 area if Victor doesn't resign; not real long, but has nice explosion coming off the line and the speed to accelerate away from coverage if he gets half a step, also catches the ball real well and is dangerous after the catch; still looks more like a slot guy who struggles at times to get off good press coverage.
I have a more general question about the draft itself  
Sneakers O'toole : 3/21/2013 3:13 pm : link
With what would appear to be a concerted effort this season for teams to bring FA salaries back down to earth, coupled with the salary wage scale system included in the current CBA, do you believe that the cost of trading up, both in and into, the first round will increase in this and coming years?
Friebe : 3/21/2013 3:17 pm : link
Thanks for this Q and A. My question, is just how good is Clowney from the Gamecocks? In my uneducated opinion, just from his hs/college days seems to suggest that he's the best defensive prospect we've seen in a while.
RBs, CBs and OGs  
Colin@gbn : 3/21/2013 3:18 pm : link
Spark: Figure that Gio Bernard is one of the first 4-5 backs off the board this year and probably goes sooner than the Giants want to use a pick on another back, especially one that has good but not great speed. Reb ... Bailey didn't have the year expected in 2012but is one of 3-4 OGs with athleticism who the Giants could look at in the 5th round area ... Jay, one thing you can take to the bank is that the Giants will stay true to their board. And if Trufant is in fact a blue chipper and no DE is then they'll take the corner everything else being equal. On the other hand if they had the same grade on Trufant and a DE then yes they take the end, again in part because you can get a quality CB who can cover in later rounds whereas that won't be the same case at other positions.
Colin@gbn : 3/21/2013 3:22 pm : link
Sneakers: Time will tell but I don't think so ... Friebe ... hile he's really just starting to scratch the surface Clowney would have been the #1 pick this year if he had been eligible for the draft. Let's just hope he doesn't get hurt next year.
Hi, Colin. Thanks so much for doing this.  
yatqb : 3/21/2013 3:23 pm : link
If this has been asked above, don't bother to repeat yourself. I have a few minutes between client so wanted to jump in.

Could you see Jesse Williams being a fit for us at DT, and might he be worth moving into the bottom of Rd. 1 to land him?
Colin@gbn : 3/21/2013 3:27 pm : link
Yat; The quick answer is no; Williams would help the round defense but I really don't see him as 3-down guy in the Giants rotation and I just don't think they use a #1 pick on a situational player.
run round  
Colin@gbn : 3/21/2013 3:29 pm : link
Thats the run defense although the way the Giants played it last year I guess it could be called the run-around D!
Thanks, Colin.  
yatqb : 3/21/2013 3:30 pm : link
How do you view Eddie Lacy? I see you have him rated in the mid-2nd. I see his as a better RB than that. hat's your thinking?
Colin: Who is the youngest player with the most home run  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 3/21/2013 3:31 pm : link
availability on offense and defense that might be available at #19?

It seems Reese loves players that are very young that can make an instant impact on either side of the ball, but have not yet reached there full potential yet.
Colin@gbn : 3/21/2013 3:32 pm : link
We actually rate our guys where we hear NFL teams have them and right now haven't come across any teams that appear to be thinking he is more than a #2 prospect; hard N-S runner who'll make some tough yards but he isn't a blazer and isn't going to make anyone miss in space.
That's all folks  
Colin@gbn : 3/21/2013 3:36 pm : link
Big Blue: Never really thought that much about; I suppose Tavon Austin (who just turned 22 might fit) ..

Gotta run guy but if there other questions I will try and get back a couple of times over the next few days.

Thanks Colin  
Franz69 : 3/21/2013 3:37 pm : link
Appreciate you taking the time. Wanted to get your thoughts on Vince Williams from Florida State.
Thanks Colin!  
Sneakers O'toole : 3/21/2013 3:38 pm : link
Anakim : 3/21/2013 3:40 pm : link
You really think Joe Fauria is a blocking specialist? That doesn't seem to be his game. He's more of a receiving threat than a blocking one.
Once again...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/21/2013 3:41 pm : link
Thank you very, very, very much Colin for an outstanding chat session!!!
Thanks again Colin...  
Dunedin81 : 3/21/2013 3:42 pm : link
good stuff as usual.
Thanks a lot, Colin!  
Anakim : 3/21/2013 3:51 pm : link
You're the best!
Always great...  
kevken60 : 3/21/2013 4:27 pm : link
...thanks, Colin!
Thank you Colin  
Optimus-NY : 3/21/2013 4:44 pm : link
As always, you were great. I really enjoyed this and appreciate you taking the time to answer my question and everyone else's around here. Take care.
Awesome job Colin  
Jay in Toronto : 3/21/2013 4:46 pm : link
have no idea what your hair situation is like, but you can certainly give the ESPN guy and some of the others a run for their money. :)
Thanks Colin!  
PeterS : 3/21/2013 4:54 pm : link
I agree with your opinions about the TE's 100%.
JonC : 3/21/2013 5:39 pm : link
Thank you again, always an oasis in the offseason leading up to the draft!

I think it could be Datone Jones.
Thanks Colin  
ctc in ftmyers : 3/21/2013 6:09 pm : link
Always appreciated.
Of all the draft scenarios  
Reb8thVA : 3/21/2013 7:05 pm : link
I''ve tried to game out the logical pick seems to come down to Datone Jones or Trufant.
Thanks Colin  
GiantsLaw : 3/21/2013 7:13 pm : link
always the best thread of the year
Thank you  
Semipro Lineman : 3/21/2013 8:09 pm : link
For taking the time to do this
such great information  
dd in Mass : 3/21/2013 9:11 pm : link
I appreciate all that you contribute here on BBI and your GBN website, always very informative. Thanks
That was great!  
George from PA : 3/22/2013 8:22 am : link
Colin...Thank you for taking the time. Great Blue North is my got to site for the draft!

Eric, Thank you for setting it up!
Just read this thread...  
2ndroundKO : 3/22/2013 4:49 pm : link
and thanks, Colin! Awesome stuff!
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