Just said that Victor Cruz is being offered $21 million Guaranteed but wants more. I was wondering if that had been stated before or mentioned. Never heard of an exact number that we were offering till now.
In what world is Victor Cruz not classified as a slot receiver? It is not a negative term deemed for 3rd string receivers who only come in on 3rd and long.
The guy lines up inside and works the middle of the field. Very well. Let me ask you a question.
If the giants are in a formation with just 2 receivers on the field lining up on the same side, where is Cruz lined up? He is not outside, he is in the slot working the middle of the field.
Welker is a slot receiver too. They are both great players.
VC puts together record team statistics for receiving yards and you guys are marginalizing him to the point that he does not deserve over 20 mil. This is probably his only chance to strike big $$$.
Wake up and smell the dirty tampon. He is worth every penny and them some in comparison to other receivers making the same $$$.
The question is what do you pay Nicks if Cruz gets this deal.
I htink you're dead worn of the assessment of trading or not signing JPP..If you look at what you have on the DL, Osi gone, Tuck on last legs, JPP is your building blocK..
You don't trade assets away for hope and prayer that you land some cheap good stars..JPP is only scratching the surface..And i agree with Anish, Cruz can be replaced if need be..I would rather have Nicks than Cruz given the choice..
I have no desire for the Giants to become the 80's version of the Chargers with Air Coryell..scoring 35 PPG and giving up 40..
I think at this point you are just trying to argue just to argue. Welker and Cruz are the definition of Slot Receivers. They are both GREAT slot receivers.
As to the question of what to pay Nicks after Cruz, if Cruz gets 25 million guaranteed, there is no more Nicks after this year.
Nicks is the only receiver on this team that can routinely beat a double team. If Cruz gets his and Nicks has to walk the Giants will make do but do not expect Cruz to make the same Magic as the receiver on the outside getting doubled on every play.
detract from the overall question and topic.
calling someone a slot guy does not mean he cant be an elite player. there is NO DISPUTING he does the bulk of his damage over the middle using his quickness and route running out of the slot. does he line up outside? of course he does some times. But the stop fade, deep post/flag, 1 on 1 outside beat the #1 CB is not what he has made his name on. It doesnt mean he is any worse or better. its an is what it is.
and why some of you act like people are sh$tting on cruz because they dont want to pay a RFA ... yes RFA!!!!!!! wake up and smell the fcking coffee... top UFA money is just stupid... ur just nuts, blind, and lost. He is under the giants control. any offer of over 20mio guaranteed is a pretty great offer by the giants. he has to weight the downside of 2mio this year and a shredded ACL. what mike wallace made means nothing. what bowe made means nothing. to cruz maybe, to the giants, NOTHING. does it make cruz less valuable? hell no. but they will offer him a fair RFA deal. i hope he takes it. If he doesnt, we get a great year out of him, and move forward with money allocation next offseason.
our WR for first SB were ENTIRELY Different then for the 2nd. the common denominators are Gilbride and Eli.
I would prefer to have a stud RT then have 2 10mio WRs anyway.
He's better than Mario Williams and more teams would line up to throw the monster deal his way. Every 4-3 team will want him.
So Terps may have a point about the value of Cruz over JPP. You have to factor in the cash when determining value so maybe they let JPP walk because the price is going to be crazy high.
Both guys are unique talents. Not many like them. But JPP is going to get a record setting deal.
The problem with the term "slot WR" is what the term implies
On its face, the term means nothing more than a WR who lines up in the slot. The "Y" receiver.
What the term is used to mean, however, is a receiver who lines up in the slot and works underneath routes, a possession guy who moves the chains in short chunks. A smaller, shifty player without great speed, but with good hands and route running who operates within 10 yards of the LOS.
Against the Dolphins. My definition of slot receiver is not a negative thing. Welker and Cruz are amazing at working the middle of the field and finding open space. That does not mean that they cannot take it to the house.
The market for slot receivers has been set at 6 million per. Is Cruz worth more than that? Absolutely. The giants agree with me and are offering 7+ per year with 21 million guaranteed.
We should not be punished for the stupidity of the Dolphins giving Mike Wallace 12 million per year with 30 million guaranteed. If Cruz wants to walk after this year and rot in Jacksonville with more in his pocket then that is his decision. I do not think Nicks is worth the contract Wallace got either.
This contract offer from the Giants looks awfully similar to the one the Giants offered Steve Smith after his career year. With more guaranteed money of course.
That's what Wes Welker and Danny Amendola got paid.
Welker used to be great, but he's 32 and is clearly in physical decline.
Amendola's best season as an NFL WR totaled 689 yards and 3 TDs. And he has a troubling history of injuries.
Neither guy is a remotely fair comparison for a 26-year-old "slot WR" who has averaged over 1200 yards and 9 TDs in his only 2 seasons of regular-season NFL action. Wes and Danny getting $6M annually on the open market is evidence that Victor would be making significantly more than that.
Some of you may remember when I posted about the agent change before it went down; I do have a well-informed source close to the Cruz situation. I met with him today and asked about the movement or lack thereof on the contract. I was told he'll take it to the tender date (19th) and then sign a deal (not a tender). Said it'll be multiyear, but no knowledge of the length or dollars. Feels good that Condon will get it done, especially with his Giants dealings in the past.
Thanks for the update. I know you put yourself out for BBI ridicule, but I for one believe this is exactly what will happen. He is in a negotiation cycle but will be a Giant in the end. Thank you.
Great to hear, a lot of these people that are undervaluing Cruz on here will be the same ones overvaluing him once he's signed long term.
It is expected/smart of him to wait till the date of the tender to sign, it's just a nice relief to know that he plans on signing the deal in place. He's basically been getting ripped by some posters for him doing his due diligence.
You are talking like you're in the front office. Nobody knows what he was guaranteed on what the contract terms are.
Contrary to popular belief, Cruz can play out the tender and make the Giants pay the tender for next year which is going to be north of 10M or let him walk..Either way, he is going to get his money.
People keep pointing out Steve Smith like it's a sure thing Cruz is goingto get injured. That was just a sample. Flacco did te same thing, didn't sign his offer, played out the last year of his contract and got paid, big time..
I swear
The guy lines up inside and works the middle of the field. Very well. Let me ask you a question.
If the giants are in a formation with just 2 receivers on the field lining up on the same side, where is Cruz lined up? He is not outside, he is in the slot working the middle of the field.
Welker is a slot receiver too. They are both great players.
Wake up and smell the dirty tampon. He is worth every penny and them some in comparison to other receivers making the same $$$.
The question is what do you pay Nicks if Cruz gets this deal.
You don't trade assets away for hope and prayer that you land some cheap good stars..JPP is only scratching the surface..And i agree with Anish, Cruz can be replaced if need be..I would rather have Nicks than Cruz given the choice..
I have no desire for the Giants to become the 80's version of the Chargers with Air Coryell..scoring 35 PPG and giving up 40..
I dont what else to tell you.
As to the question of what to pay Nicks after Cruz, if Cruz gets 25 million guaranteed, there is no more Nicks after this year.
Nicks is the only receiver on this team that can routinely beat a double team. If Cruz gets his and Nicks has to walk the Giants will make do but do not expect Cruz to make the same Magic as the receiver on the outside getting doubled on every play.
calling someone a slot guy does not mean he cant be an elite player. there is NO DISPUTING he does the bulk of his damage over the middle using his quickness and route running out of the slot. does he line up outside? of course he does some times. But the stop fade, deep post/flag, 1 on 1 outside beat the #1 CB is not what he has made his name on. It doesnt mean he is any worse or better. its an is what it is.
and why some of you act like people are sh$tting on cruz because they dont want to pay a RFA ... yes RFA!!!!!!! wake up and smell the fcking coffee... top UFA money is just stupid... ur just nuts, blind, and lost. He is under the giants control. any offer of over 20mio guaranteed is a pretty great offer by the giants. he has to weight the downside of 2mio this year and a shredded ACL. what mike wallace made means nothing. what bowe made means nothing. to cruz maybe, to the giants, NOTHING. does it make cruz less valuable? hell no. but they will offer him a fair RFA deal. i hope he takes it. If he doesnt, we get a great year out of him, and move forward with money allocation next offseason.
our WR for first SB were ENTIRELY Different then for the 2nd. the common denominators are Gilbride and Eli.
I would prefer to have a stud RT then have 2 10mio WRs anyway.
So Terps may have a point about the value of Cruz over JPP. You have to factor in the cash when determining value so maybe they let JPP walk because the price is going to be crazy high.
Both guys are unique talents. Not many like them. But JPP is going to get a record setting deal.
What the term is used to mean, however, is a receiver who lines up in the slot and works underneath routes, a possession guy who moves the chains in short chunks. A smaller, shifty player without great speed, but with good hands and route running who operates within 10 yards of the LOS.
That last description ain't Victor Cruz.
We should not be punished for the stupidity of the Dolphins giving Mike Wallace 12 million per year with 30 million guaranteed. If Cruz wants to walk after this year and rot in Jacksonville with more in his pocket then that is his decision. I do not think Nicks is worth the contract Wallace got either.
Thats funny.
The patriots are unpredictable in their formation.
You're making things up.
Youre making things up, rumors as fact.
Welker used to be great, but he's 32 and is clearly in physical decline.
Amendola's best season as an NFL WR totaled 689 yards and 3 TDs. And he has a troubling history of injuries.
Neither guy is a remotely fair comparison for a 26-year-old "slot WR" who has averaged over 1200 yards and 9 TDs in his only 2 seasons of regular-season NFL action. Wes and Danny getting $6M annually on the open market is evidence that Victor would be making significantly more than that.
Or, sign the tender, take a huge chance of playing for that small amount and hope:
1-You stay healthy
2-Have the kind of year that would merit far more than you are passing up now(significant and guaranteed)
It is expected/smart of him to wait till the date of the tender to sign, it's just a nice relief to know that he plans on signing the deal in place. He's basically been getting ripped by some posters for him doing his due diligence.
You are talking like you're in the front office. Nobody knows what he was guaranteed on what the contract terms are.
Contrary to popular belief, Cruz can play out the tender and make the Giants pay the tender for next year which is going to be north of 10M or let him walk..Either way, he is going to get his money.
People keep pointing out Steve Smith like it's a sure thing Cruz is goingto get injured. That was just a sample. Flacco did te same thing, didn't sign his offer, played out the last year of his contract and got paid, big time..
Thanks for the update.
And I can vouch that he has a good contact.
And I can vouch that he has a good contact.
pganut has a good
section125 : 8:24 pm
contract?
Nice tip peanut!
David in LA : 8:29 pm