Daily News: Cruz asking price is $10-$11 Million per year

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Cruz is deserving of this.

15 a year???

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worth $10-$11 million a year. He's dreaming and the Giants won't pay that.

If you pay Cruz those dollars, who do you not pay going forward?

said he had a contact who said that Cruz would wait until the April 19th deadline to see if anyone offered him a contract, and if not, then sign a contract with the Giants, and not play for the tender. If that's true, then how can his asking price be $10-$11M a year, since there is no way the Giants are offering that much?

Now is the time Eli is likely to give us his best football, so now is the time to best equip him with the tools to do so. Cut corners elsewhere.

dont mean you gonna get...

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you throw out a number, they come back with a number, you do a deal somewhere in between. Reese knows it, Condon knows it

He'll take solace that he can make money in NYC endorsements.

....

Guys like Rolle, Snee, and Baas are likely cuts next year anyway. Big chunks. Maybe Eli makes a Brady like deal to free up space. But the big looming contract is JPP, obviously. IMO that's where the tough decision has to be made.

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as there is NO CHANCE, zero, zip, nada, that he gets that kind of money. Let him play out the year if he cares to chance it(foolish, imo) and if necessary we'll franchise him...

Cruz, with his former agent, was believed to be seeking much more, however. Several NFL sources said his asking price was closer to $10 million-$11 million per year, which is about the going rate for a No. 1 receiver in the NFL. With the two sides not close, the Giants gave Cruz a “first-round tender” before the free-agent market opened in early March, which would get him a salary of $2.879 million 2013 if he signs it.

will be a bad move in my opinion.

I don't think Baas is a likely cut because of his restructure. I think the cap savings are minimal.

And of course he's going to ask for everything he can get.

LOL…Pay him! Sure! Give him everything he wants! No need for negotiations.

Good player. But there are games were he doesn't show up. His name isn't megatron

No way

It comes down to this, without Nicks, Cruz disappeared. Good player but Nicks draws double teams away more so than Cruz. If Cruz gets 11 mill then it's peace out to Nicks.

it would be crazy.

The Giants can control him for 2 more years at an average of about $6 million/yr (I think) between the tender they just slapped on him and the franchise tag.

JPP's contract is anymore given his play last season but there's still more football to be played, so we'll see.

Agree with Terps regarding continuity of the passing game. It might be worth somewhat of a premium.

This seems responsible on Beyonce's part. Pay them. Pay them all.

Obviously the Giants should try to get the number down as far as they can, but not retaining him long term is a mistake.

My mistake for thinking I didn't have to spell it out for you.

he WILL NOT get close to that THIS YEAR. We hold all the cards, imo..I can see 7-8, maybe, maybe 9 but that's it..Go ahead and chance the $2.9 Victor, cause that's what's gonna happen if you refuse the 7-9 and possibly 20-25 mill guaranteed(perhaps a little more)

If he is really asking that, he will have to play for 2.9 this season, then hope he doesn't get hurt..

on the open market, most likely. So it makes sense as a number to start negotiations at.

The Giants clearly have the leverage to bring that down; the question is by how much.

and take it, the first thing we do is let him play his tender, then franchise him for 11, and then give in to his demands. 10-11 aint happening this year.

for a player of his caliber.

Having said that, I think his asking is too high. I would pay, and I think he's earned, $9 mil per.

Sure that's what you meant.

What will they do with Hakeem Nicks? He's going to want a similar contract next year, if not more.

in the numbers and no deal could be struck, word would have been leaked by both parties to their press contacts to paint the other party as the bad guy. They are close and a deal will be done

Thankfully, there is NO OPEN MARKET for him..

You're right, i did. Was a sucker and read the NFL's Around the league story. But wanted to reference the actual source so was a sucker and read ATL not RV's article.

My bad

And I agree with you not locking him up long term would be a mistake.

It would also be a mistake going 11 per. B/C i'm sure that's about $27M guaranteed he's looking for.

I LOVE Cruz, but no thanks.

And Randle's 2-TD performance in the season finale should tell Cruz that Giants just might be OK without him.

Yes, it is. If the Giants can get him down to $8 million, great. If they can't, I'm fine with them paying him $11 million.

Quote:

If the Giants franchise Cruz Joe in Cambridge : 11:52 am What will they do with Hakeem Nicks? He's going to want a similar contract next year, if not more.

The franchise tag, two years at $13 million meme is flawed.

"Don't believe all you read or hear."

"What don't you guys understand? Amount per year means NOTHING, it's all about the guaranteed."


Lulz.

then he can move on.

Barring something strange happening JPP is going to be able to name his price. Talents like that don't come around often. The Mario Williams contract will be his floor.

The Giants supposedly offered 7. Who would be surprised if he signed for 9?

when they have Nicks, JPP, and just other positions in general to address. Cruz will play for the tender this year, and he'll walk after that. Doubt they franchise him with Nicks being a FA after the season, too. I really don't think it's getting done.

Guess our receiver is gonna have T-Rex arms this year again at times.

that he is going to take over on the outside when Nicks leaves in free agency next year because the Giants aren't paying them both that salary.

Cone on now beyonce and jays kids college funds more like there spare coke change and start for showbiz careers College really!!!

thanks

I doubt they'd have room for a $10.3M franchise cap hit

let's call it $8.5m and get this shit over already.

Oh well.

believed that?

Why can't they pay them both that? I think they're better off doing that and going cheap on the defense than they are in breaking up the best group on the team (Eli/Cruz/Nicks and hopefully Randle).

It's not my ideal way to build a team, but I don't see the wisdom in changing horses midstream here.

at the market value for WRs and his production.
I've maintained that he should be paid in the 8-10 million dollar range. Still think this gets done at about 8.5 mil per.
Whatever happened to all those Cruz fans that thought he was better than Nicks? Now I hear how he's getting shutdown when Nicks isn't on the field drawing double teams???
Funny how opinions really change around here when money is involved.
If the Giants want him they have to pay up more than 7 mil, that's really well below his mkt value given his production, status and age. He has every right to ask for that kind of money when he looks at what his peers are making.
Remove feelings and emotions and look at the market.

but in overpaying him, goes to a garbage team.

So if you are a player, you pick: money, or success.

Wallace is making 13 million, but his team is going to be terrible. He made less with the Steelers, and not coincidentally, his team was more successful.

JZ

Like I've heard it all before, somewhere. Scary.

due to teams having unusually good rookies locked into low salaries, of course. These are temporary situations.

is going to toss out lowball offers to Hakeem Nicks (if healthy) after the upcoming season?

to be the Giants offer is true, and the 10-11 is correct, then he's likely looking to settle at 9 and a Harvin type 25M+ guarantee. He's looking at an injury-prone Harvin contract and that 18M avg by Megatron and thinking he's worth more. He is likely right, and in a better Giants cap environment could get it. He put the ball back in the Giants court for the difference of about 1.5M/yr and 4M more guaranteed.
I really believe the Giants want to hold off on an Eli extension until next year when they can deal with the FA situation midst the Snee/Trel cap situation and just do it all at once. This is not helping. He may be playing with fire now.
What about a shorter term, like 3 years, 8.5M, 11M guaranteed, with the 3rd the option year; still gives him a shot at another big contractif he wants to walk, Giants the option to wave goodbye if he loses a step(or can't salsa anymore). It's pricey but with HN injury prone, don't want to necessarily lose both if HN is not worth keeping and if the injuries stop and we have the full 'him', at least one cap headache is put away and at least part of this duo remains.

That price pretty much kills the RFA market for him.

is nothing compared to the expense of having to spend yet another high draft pick on a WR to replace his production. Hope it's not another Barden, Sinorice Moss or Jernigan. Not to mentioned the draft picks used to select Smith and Manningham, who have also departed (after playing big roles on title teams, at least). At some point before Eli starts going gray maybe we'll let him work with a good receiver for more than 2-3 years and focus our premium draft picks on building up other areas. And yes, I know Victor went undrafted.

Yup. A lot of people underestimate how much our guys would get on the open market (Still loling at the $5-$7M number thrown out for Cruz yesterday).

I suppose they could. I wouldn't.

Dwayne Bowe money. That's crazy talk."

Yup. The devaluing of Cruz (who IMO is clearly the best slot WR and one of the 10 best WR overall in the sport) is not something I saw coming this offseason.

"Nicks will likely get a contract like Kenny Phillips - one year prove-it deal. Slightly above the minimum."

Once (If) Cruz puts pen to paper, the tunes will change and many will be talking about what a great deal we got.

much money as you can, while you can. People can pretend if they like be you and I if in the same position, wouldn't be any different. He's not asking for Wallace money so he is in fact being fair if this is true.
Look at the contracts that guys like Garcon and Jackson signed just last year. They are making 8-9 mil respectively.
He's better than both of those guys and his stats blow there's out of the water. This is a passing league right now more than ever and WR's are at a premium. He's in his prime and he will never be in a better position to maximize his earnings. His number is coming in high at 10-12, Giants are low balling at 7, this should get done at 8.5 or bout that figure with a nice 22-25 mil guaranteed.

philosophy here since TC came aboard is to build and enhance the lines on both sides of the ball. Not blow all your cap money on WRs, etc. Stick to that and let him go if he wants too much, period.

Most likely we are saying the same thing. I am torn between wanting Cruz to get as much as he can from the Giants and knowing that any money we do not spend on him will be used to get or retain better players.

says that under Cruz's old agent he "was" asking for 10-11 million. It says nothing about what he is currently seeking.

Sign Edelman for the slot & trade Cruz... Enough of this shit.

based on what guys would fetch on the open market.

You can call it a de-valuation of Cruz if you want but it's clearly not that. And honestly, it seems like those NOT willing to throw huge money at Cruz are more in line with the mindset of the club as of right now.

We've all heard TC's comments on Cruz and we know they come from the top as well. They want him here for the long-term but 10 million a year aint happening.

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I just said the same thing, Fan opinion drops big time with respect to value when money is thrown into the conversation. Remove money and talk WRs and Nicks and Cruz are ranked in the top 10 in the league on BBI. Add it and it becomes Eli makes these guys what they are today and there not worth #1 WR money on the open market and there greedy if their greedy for there asking prices and then the Smith references shorty follow. Unreal.

The problem is there aren't many better players than Cruz. If the money that would have gone to Cruz is used to get, say, a good corner and an OK DE...that's a net loss. It's a lot of money for one player, but I'd rather spend on known quality than speculate on quantity...especially when that quality directly supplements the performance of our best player.

10-11 is the MAX he would get from a sh%t team with cap space next year as a UFA... so to give him as a RFA would be assinine at best.... mornoic at worst.
either come down or enjoy the 2.5m and root for health.

Past that, you ask yourself "Can I bring a guy in for 4-6 million and have him produce nearly the same with my future HoF QB?"
That answer, in my mind, is yes. Eli makes these guys more valuable then in many other franchises.

they are trying to sell cruz on "team" when it comes to his salary demands. i dont blame coughlin, but i also dont blame cruz. giants are in a great position if they can keep nicks and cruz. but they need both of them and probably eli to all compromise.

One team in the league last year was over 30M ( Bears at 33M) for their QB and WR combined salaries. In fact, most were between 15-25M. if cruz and nicks get what they should, along with eli and his 20M, giants will be well over 40M for the 3 players plus the other 4-5 WR they would have to pay.

So if thats the care there will have to be major sacrifaces at other positions. Not sure how that will work out.

If I saw the horrific injury to the Louisville basketball player there is now way in hell that I don't get my deal done now. Cruz,of course,is trying to get as much as he can as he should but he would be a fool to play at the tender this year and not take the guaranteed money now. He should put in a call to Steve Smith and Terrell Thomas. One unfortunate play and he could be out paving the street looking for a job.

It's how to build a team.

The Giants know they can have him this year for the tender offer. That gives them another full year to see how things shake out with Cruz, Nicks, and Randle. If Nicks looks like he just can't stay healthy, but Randle looks good - you go with Cruz and Randle. If Nicks looks like the one people game plan for, you see what you have with Nicks and Randle outside - whether you can live without Cruz. At worst, you decide to pay both Nicks and Cruz a bundle next year when you have more cap space.

However, if Cruz decides to go for long-term security - you have a chance to keep all three for something approximating a reasonable figure.

Personally, I can't see dedicating $40M+ in cap space to three guys (Eli=$20M, Cruz/Nicks=$10M+ each) - no matter how good they are. So something has to give.

I've said it before - if I'm Eli, I'm happy to cut back to $10M-$15M/year to help make room for great receivers, a strong line, and a decent defense. I don't see why you get so tied up in being "respected" for having a high salary, and he's going to be incredibly well off no matter how much he makes.

the Giants have effectively two years to hammer this out.

Franchise tag Cruz at $11 million against the cap next season, and then what do you do with Hakeem Nicks with no leverage?

The Giants have to have a walk away number and the number probably is 9 mil per. But this is a negotiation, so of course they are going to come in low and call it fair and to a lot of fans that may seem fair, but in there market it isn't really.
Cruz stands to make a lot of off the fieled money and the complete value of what he'll earn staying here and a salary of 8.5 mil should be enough to get this done at some point.
If Cruz sticks to 10-11 mil, the Giants have to just play this out with the tender. Nicks is next on deck and he will probably fall into that 10-12 range.

welcome to the one year tender and 1 year tag. That gives us Cruz for 2 years at about 7 mil per.

Hopefully Cruz will stay healthy for 2 more years so he can get his huge pay day from some other team.

is the most idiotic thing possible.
the MOST he will get next offseason from a team up against the cap floor is that #.... so with RFA available... and another year, why the hell is anyone recommending paying him his demands?

He knows he won't get that from the Giants, and basically that is what he is demanding of a team wanting to sign him away from NY.

I have believed all along this will all get done in the end, and I still do. But why shouldn't he shoot for the moon in the mean time? If some team was silly enough to agree to his demands, he wins, if he ends up "settling" for around 7 per to remain a Giant he wins. He is playing this just right IMO.

Again, you tag Cruz next year, Nicks sits down, puts his feet up and says "you have no leverage. $12m per or I'm hitting UFA, peace out".

Thoughts?

in Randle and if Nicks can stay healthy. An RFA is not getting 10-11 million, not happening.

When Nicks is playing and not playing hurt, he is more valuable. However, if you consider only production and how one player's presence affects the offense, maybe Cruz is a better value.

Cruz is greedy...and might be best to say goodbye.

I believe pganut's asshattery that he'll sign here, and like any negotiations there will be some give and take on both sides. I've felt all along that he'd stay. But this whole saga has made for some interesting debates on player values.

what the fuck is with all the stupid on these Cruz threads?

and Fennelly clarifies that the 10-11 ask was from Cruz'es prior agent - he says that the current asking price now that Cruz is with CAA is unknown

Link - ( New Window )

He should learn from David Diehl, brah.

Nicks might get hurt again this year.
Cruz might have a down year.
Randle might not show anything.
Jernigan might look great.

The Giants control Cruz this season. They don't have to do anything. Cruz is free to hold out for whatever contact he wants, but he is the one taking all the risk.

Is if the Giants offer more guaranteed money....Cruz is young...has so far played relatively injury free....so it's safe to assume he will play all 5 years....If the Giants offer more guaranteed money plus incentives...wouldn't that be a win win situation and fair to both sides?

If the Giants contract offer is 5 years 7 million per season with 21 million guaranteed.....if they went to 28 million guaranteed...and added incentives whereby....Cruz would get incentives that might take the contract to $10.5 million or $11 million for product unction similar to 2011....for last years type production he might get an extra $2 million bringing the contract to $9 million...

If the Giants keep the same offer and increase the guaranteed money would that negatively effect the cap?

that's not entirely true. Cruz could have a fantanstic year, and demand even more. Every year, the prices go up. Nicks could continue his injury riddled ways. JJ could continue to be a nothing. Randle could get injured or not progress the way we hope. It's possible that 10 mil could look like a bargain at this time next year when the only reliable WR on the team is a UFA. That's a risk for the Giants. Granted, the Giants aren't going to significantly budge from their plan, but there's still risk.

it'll likely be on Nicks, not on Cruz, unless Nicks suffers some kind of severe injury.

Linval Joseph.

Nicks in all likelihood will miss parts of the season or perhaps more, mo..Nothing to indicate otherwise. If so, let him test the market and go with Cruz and Randle..

If he's actually beyond his injury stuff, then here's a dilemma, but perhaps that's here Eli comes in(assuming he hasn't done something before that)..

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is not the most likely scenario but it's plausible. It would be an interesting outcome.

Nicks in all likelihood will miss parts of the season or perhaps more, imo..Nothing to indicate otherwise. If so, let him test the market and go with Cruz and Randle..

If he's actually beyond his injury stuff, then there's a dilemma, but perhaps that's where Eli comes in(assuming he hasn't done something before that)..

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I'd prefer not

Most cost-effective use of the tag.

we're pretty likely to lose Cruz or Nicks, as both are more than likely going to want top 5 WR money.

5/50 to 5/55 is the range I speculated on as early as last Sept.

I do wonder if NYG will choose Linval over Cruz, in terms of which position to throw the big $ at. Linval figures to be significantly cheaper, of course, but he's also just one piece of the puzzle in trying to get the young core locked up.

Pro Bowl for a minute. Eli comes in and almost immediately throws an embarassing INT. On his next series, he's determined to make up for it and leads the East down the field down the field for a TD. Who is his go to WR on this drive (and the next one as well?) ? Cruz. Fast forward to a cpl wks ago: VC signs with Tom Condon. thru CAA/JayZ, as I understand it now. Eli's agent.

As a former theatrical agent myself, I can tell you what made CAA quickly assume the top tier in entertainment was their pioneering work in packaging, their ability to put together an entire production with exclusively clients from their own roster (actors, director, writers etc), making everyone happy and making everyone LOTS of $. Condon will never let Eli go without VC. Unless there is some other aspect Im not privy to, Im absolutely sure the two sides will end up splitting the baby and VC will sign here. Its the nature of the business.

Lindval even in the top 15 at his position???? Don't think so....not last year anyway.

but my personal opinion is that that's the number he and his agent(s) have been floating out there to see if anyone will bite. If no one does, which appears to be the case, then he'll do what pgnut said and sign the long-term deal the Giants have had in front of him for months now. As has been said time and time again on here, Cruz has absolutely NO reason to sign the tender now because a team just might be willing to give him $10 mill a year and give up their draft pick. So why rush it?

Second thing I'd like to point out is to all of you who are saying Nicks walks next year if they franchise Cruz next year. My question is, why couldn't they just use the transition tag on Nicks next year at a 1st round pick level? He's probably gonna want more than Cruz AND he's been somewhat injury prone. So who's gonna want to pay a guy THAT much amount of money AND give up their #1 pick for a guy who might miss a few games every season?

that's a joke. I'll pack his bags for him. Nicks is way more valuable to me than Cruz. Let his ass walk.

said that the Giants SHOULD NOT pay more than 8 mil per yr to Cruz. He's not Larry Fitzgerald or Percy Harvin ... and ... I think Nicks is MORE VALUABLE to NYG than Cruz is! Sorry! I could make a case that Steve Smith from Carolina is a better WR than Cruz (right now).

if no other team bites ... then he and his agent would be STUPID not to sign the long-term deal with NYG!!!! :)

He should wait until the last possible minute and will sign for 5 years at 8/8.5/per and both sides will be happy. Now let's get a defense and some OL help and play some consistent football for once in '13.

or wanting to extend now for long-term at a lower figure..

You have to look into trading him. It sucks, but if he refuses to look at the impact of being in this market, and wanting to win, and being home.. we aren't left with much of a decision.

you don't pay WR's.

didn't get a significant bonus out of college and he's already 26, this might be his first and last chance at a big contract. He's got to get everything he can on this one.

is he was criminally underpaid the past two years
and instead of complaining he gave 110% and was humble about his situation

so I don't think he is being greedy at all.. he just wants to be paid

$11m is a silly number for the Giants to pay for Cruz. I don't expect the Giants will come off the $7m per year with about $21M guaranteed that they apparently have the on the table.

Let Cruz play for his tender and make a decision at the end of next season about keeping either Cruz or Nicks. I don't see the Giants paying big dollars to 2 WR's on top of the money they are paying Eli. I do not think the Giants will exceed $16-17 Million per year for both Nicks and Cruz.

People need to stop bitching about the contracts of other guys on the team as well. Sometimes you need to pay to fill a spot with a free agent. They are almost never worth the money you pay them....but you have to do it. I'd rather see a deep team than a team that is strong at just a few positions.

The Giants will pay a guy for what they are worth going forward . . . not what they did for you.

lock up Nicks ASAP. His value isn't going to go anymore down, it's only going to go up. They should get him out of the way then see where the $$$ is for Cruz.

I don't think Cruz is concerned about injuries when he just saw with the far-from-durable Percy Harvin just got. Unless he has a debilitating injury, he can still get more than $7 mil easily, even if he gets nicked up this year. And he was healthy as a horse for 2 straight years, so even if he gets hurt this year, it won't have as much of a negative stigma. Again, look no further than Harvin.

Cruz really has nothing to lose by taking our lowball offer after he saw with Wallace and an injury-plagued Harvin received.

Let's give him a call

If Nicks is hurt again this year, his value drops even further. And thats a likely scenario given his history.

about 8-9 a year if it was offered to him TODAY.

Lots of crazy on this thread..

First thing is, The Giants do NOT hold all the cards..The most they can do, is pay him the 2.9M this year..IMO, it is the smart move..Let's not act like what happened to Steve Smith is going to happen to Cruz..

It makes me shake my head that the injury thing is even being put out there because if he does sign with the Giants, you don't want him to get injured!!!

Knowing Condon was taking over the negotiations should have signaled to everyone that They were going to ask for market price so i don't know what the surprise was..

When Mara came out and gave his thoughts and the 7M offer was leaked, you knew that the PR game was starting to get the fans on the team's side..

Seriously wonder why people think they know what the front office is doing and what they are willing to pay..

we get a secret newsletter in the mail straight from Mara and Tisch themselves that tells us things like that.

You're just upset because you weren't included.

Quote:

You pay linemen BigBlueCane : 2:03 pm you don't pay WR's.

The NFL in 2013 is not the NFL in 1993.

they have him right now for basically 2/$14M.

but I'm sure Cruz + agent are aware of this as well. just matters how much extra per year they're willing to take the risk for.

That's a gross overstatement. Offensive line is important but really becoming overvalued in the eyes of fans.

Tell that to the steelers and packers and colts, who all did pretty good despite garbage at OL.

and Cruz is one of the best in the NFL. This is not Steve Smith who was the Rodney Hampton of WR's. Cruz is a potential big play every time he gets the ball.

let Cruz walk if he demands more. No way is he worth that kind of money. He is NOT a #1 receiver, he is a slot receiver and should be paid accordingly. If his newly developed big ego is getting in the way than I say bye bye VC it was nice knowing you. No way will he get the opportunities and endorsement deals he seeks outside of NYC area.

Just pay Cruz $10M per year and Nicks $11M. The Giants will find a way to get Eli's number down to $15M per year. That's $36 million or about 28% of the cap for 6% of your roster. That leaves less than $90 million for the rest of your team or less than $2 million per guy. But since they have three great guys....they will more than compensate for the lack of production and depth and other positions. Right??? sarc/

I know those are simplified numbers and the actual cap hits for Cruz and Nicks would probably be significantly less early on...but your still investing a lot of money in just three guys. Those are contracts that can set your franchise back if someone gets hurt or does not perform.

How much are the Giants will to rob from Peter to pay Paul? Ultimately that is the question. And since Paul usually does not live up to his billing....we can then look forward to bitching and moaning that Paul makes too much f'ing money.

Is Eli worth the money....yes. Are Nick and Cruz excellent players that deserve to be paid as such...yes. But can the Giants pay everyone they would like to keep. Unfortunately not.

really like Cruz. I definately want him on the G-men for years to come.
That said I think his head has swelled too large if he thinks he is worth anywhere near 10 mil a year. I think the Giants offer is MORE than fair at this point.
I worry about signing Nicks much more than CRuz. Randle looks like he will be a player. I say the Giants should let Cruz play out his one year tender and see what happens after that. Any team that pays over 7 mil for Cruz are in for a big disappointment ala Steve Smith and Kevin Boss. Let them waste there cap money and not the G-men.

will play this the way it should be played. Assign a value to Cruz, and if he wants more, say bye bye, and try to draft or sign another Wr and try to coach them up so that they can play inside and Z.

It's frustrating because our system specific to the Wr rules, and sight adjustment rules are complex. So it's a pain to keep finding and replacing players at that position that are productive. Also, Eli is getting older, so you want to keep stability within the offense.

This is the reality of how football is. You can't pay everyone so you have to decide and really put value in what you're trying to do.

We know so far, with 2 different types of players, that played Y and Z, that they can be pro bowlers. The fact they are 2 totally different players that were pro bowlers in our system should give everyone confidence. I know I respect Gilbride, but not a fan of that element of our system. The sight adjustments are complex, but when run properly, Gilbride has shown that 2 different WRs can be productive pro bowl players.

So I do have faith that in our system, we can get another productive player. The question is.. When? How long can we do that? If it takes 3 years Eli is mid 30s,and that's not good.

So these are all the thins the team will weight. I am sure in the end the best way to approach this is to assign a value to Cruz, or any player, and if he wants more, then you have to say thanks for your services, and good luck to you.

and Nicks. Then you have JPP to pay soon. You would have almost have of the salary cap invested in 5 guys. Unless some of them are signed with big discounts we will not be able to keep all of them.

that doesn't seem out of whack to me. Look at his numbers over the last 2 years, I do think 7 Mil is a low ball number and that the deal will end up in the territory of 8.5 per year.

and we aren't crazy.

Quote:

the Giants hold more cards that people think lalalalala : 2:53 pm they have him right now for basically 2/$14M.

Yes, the Giants CAN let Cruz play on the RFA tender this year and the CAN franchise him next year. But that would mean that the Giants would not have the franchise tag to use on Nicks. So you can say that the Giants hold the cards vs Cruz, but that could easily cost them Nicks. I'm sure the Giants would like to get Cruz wrapped up before the 2013 season so that they can have the upper hand in the event Nicks plays out his contract.

not "all the cards". if I have a client I can't worry about what may or may not happen to someone else's client. especially when someone else's client gets hurt going to get the paper in the morning.

the Giants have Cruz until 2015 should they choose to go down that road. at a fairly high price AAV. if Cruz is going to shoot too high, he risks running himself into a short term deal, where anything could happen.

2 years is a long time for something to go wrong.

past 2014 IMO. I wouldn't pay that much to him, or any WR not named Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald (at this point.)

Let's see if VC's 2013 features a 14+ YPC WR or a 12-13 YPC WR. And then I'd franchise his ass for 2014, and let him walk in 2015 when he's 28 or so.

I like Cruz a lot, but I warned about this shit happening a long time ago and really wish we'd locked up Mario for 3-4 mil per or whatever he got from the 9ers...

BTW - the assumption that Cruz would likely be healthy for the full extent of a 5 year deal, just because he's been healthy the past two, is as stupid as stupid gets (you listnen' gelabee?) What about his rookie year on IR? The history (to this point) suggests Cruz will miss one out of every 3 years he's under contract - if you're even dumb enough to think that the injury history is valid predictor of future injury likelihood!

this season.

if there was no cap I wouldn't care if they paid him 50 million a year. But in the salary cap world of the NFL he isn't worth 10 million a year. Put me in the camp of Eli makes stars and Cruz is the biggest example. Very good player, limited physical gifts, seems to be a good citizen. Not the athletic freak that warrants breaking the bank. Next man up at 10 million.

I still think that Cruz is overplaying his hand. He is not getting $10 million from anybody. Leaving $21 million guaranteed on the table to play for $2.875 mill this year and $10 mill next year while risking injury would be foolish.

for a hamstring injury, and he could have played at the end of that year, when we were pulling guys off the street to play WR.....

You have to draw the line somewhere......when you have overpaid OLmen and a safety, you can't compound the situation with other players....first and foremost, you protect Eli, and you strengthen an OL, not return the same guys who fell on their faces the last two years.....

We need depth on OL....can't count on guys who were late round picks.....wild dreams of playing the SB in your own stadium, are not going to happen.....it's going to be a 2-3 year plan, whether you want to accept it or not.....

Would be one of the most foolish GM's to still be offering Cruz even 7 mil, the top market for slot receivers is 6 mil or less. This is a business if you are bidding against yourself then you are not a good businessman. Look we all would have been happy to get Cruz for 6-8 mil at the start of last season Cruz said no and the market has been very flat for slot WR's.

since some folks are still saying that they can't franchise Cruz next year because they won't be able to franchise Nicks (if need be), I guess maybe I should just re-post this since it seems to have been either unseen or ignored:

Quote:

Second thing I'd like to point out is to all of you who are saying Nicks walks next year if they franchise Cruz next year. My question is, why couldn't they just use the transition tag on Nicks next year at a 1st round pick level? He's probably gonna want more than Cruz AND he's been somewhat injury prone. So who's gonna want to pay a guy THAT much amount of money AND give up their #1 pick for a guy who might miss a few games every season?

I gather Dragon has done some serious pizza delivery for Dominoes, and is competent to make sweeping generalizations learned from his online correspondence MBA courses about "not bidding against one's self!"

Bravo! Or get a clue.

Welker has caught over 750 balls for over 8500 yds and all he could get was 6 mil a year. Don't you think the Pat's at one time offered him more than that however the market price he took later on was not what he felt he was worth. Can you guarantee Cruz will continue to perform at his previous numbers or better answer hell NO! As I stated earlier he screwed himself the Giants did not do it to him he did it to himself. This is a business if I pay you 7 mil and the market rate for the best guy in the business is 6 mil that makes me a dumb ass. Let's even look at it in a different manner no NFL is willing to give up high draft pick and big money for a player in todays NFL why because the value is not worth the price paid.

Put Megatron in the same situation Cruz is in now how many teams would not try and sign him in the first 3 hours?

Add WR to the draft list. I wouldn't pay any receiver that money not even Megatron. Moving on from this nutzo crap. We have him for another season then he'll be replaced.

I would love to have Cruz back but I don't think it can be done and still have the money it will take to keep Nicks and JPP here.

.

7mill is ok

If not, get Edelman.

(and Joseoh and JPP) I'm certain that Reese will wave bye-bye to Cruz and replace him with a younger guy. It will probably be a step down and end up with a guy like Steve Smith. Paying Cruz 10-11M per with today's cap is insane.

If Cruz is your #1 WR, then sure you pay him 10M per.

You know how that's not accurate? The "Market" isn't paying him that much.

You want to know why?
3 reasons:
1. He's a RFA. No one would give up a 1st AND pay him that much.
2. The Giants don't need to
3. He's NOT worth that much. Mike Wallace is maybe the fastest WR in the NFL and Harvin the most dynamic.
Cruz is more Amendola and Welker than Harvin
AND, AGAIN, CRUZ IS AN RFA!
He should get around $8 mil/year. The negotiation has likely been centered around the amount of guaranteed money. It is the guaranteed money that Cruz cares about and the reason he will sign long-term.

Stop this idiocy.
Championships are won by teams
Teams are built with cap restrictions
You don't build a Championship team by paying a walk-on much more than you need to. $40 mil over 5 years is plenty!

BBI is living proof that money changes people. It turns (some) rational and smart people into total fucking morons.

Take one star player who is a FA. Add big money demands by said player....mix in the waiting game and add to BBI. Shake. Stir. Presto...total fucking lunacy.

If Cruz truly believes he should earn 11 million a year and NY never intends on giving him that type of deal, he should still think long and hard about signing with NY for 7-8 per year right now. He can then take solace in the fact that he's earning an extra 5-6 million this season instead of having to wait another full year to earn that 11 million he may or may not get. Let's say he gets the extra 5 million guaranteed in spring 2014 and he gets an extra 2-3 million per...great, that's all well and good but he still earned only 2.8 million in 2013. He loses 5-6 million by not signing that smaller deal right now.

IN other words, sign the fucking deal now and start earning that big contract sooner rather than later AND don't risk the bird in the hand. Get paid in 2013 not 2014.

Very funny, and accurate

guys a year or two away from UFA will sign for less. The whole hometown discount thing really never made sense to me. It has less to do with hometown loyalties then it does early bird special. The player is getting his raise a year or two early. That's why they sign for less and that's why any team giving a player actual market value before the guy hits UFA status would fall under the label of "stupid."

This is what drives me nuts when some fans kill the Giants for not paying Cruz his true market value right this second. Why should they? Cruz is a better player than Wallace but Wallace earned the right to negotiate as a UFA. Cruz is not worth the same money because he's not a UFA.

a nitpick but Cruz is a better WR than Harvin ever was or will be.

Dragon breathing stupidity all over this thread.

I don't (necessarily) disagree with that statement
I would argue however, that Harvin is more of an offensive and ST weapon than Cruz

the only 100% proven way of stopping offenses in the NFL is knocking the QB out of the game.

Hence you better surround yours with some elite level bodyguards.

Elite QBs make the line, not vice versa.

If you start looking at SB participants, you see how shoddy the lines are and how great the QBs are. Even the vaunted SF offensive line was porous in pass pro; their strength was run-blocking.

We had the fewest sacks allowed in the NFL last year, and 3rd overall in FBO's adjusted sack rate (factors in pass attempts). Our line. Our maligned line with a shit RT and mediocrity across the interior. Eli Manning is why Eli Manning rarely got sacked or hit.

Is still a player I liked have not changed on that, did he do anything no but how many taught Cruz was going to become one of the best slot WR's in the game?

The Phins overpaid for Wallace but it was a statement the team needed to make for the fans and players that they can sign a big name player or coach. Plus this was one of the best fits a team lacking WR speed and one of the top speed WR's in the game.

about strengthening the line to protect the franchise.

Eli Manning was the least sacked QB in the NFL last season with garbage in front of him.

How much more improvement can you get beyond that, at what cost? Diminishing returns. Invest lightly in the OL with some draft picks and cheaper contracts, and let your elite QB do the rest. It's poor return on investment when the most important factor to protecting the QB is the QB.

With the new TE this will work great. Cruz is not even the #1 on this team. When Nicks went out, Cruz's numbers really dropped. He is a good/very good receiver, but we can't pay the second receiver on the team $10M. No team can.

played exceptionally well but you cannot depend on him to completely carry the offense and make the OL look good every year.

The time to invest the money and resources in the OL is now, it will re-establish the running game and keep teams from teeing off on Eli AND buy time for the WR's to figure out the routes again.