If this was posted will delete, story from yesterday but I hadn't seen the contract details:
Quote:
Several NFL sources said his asking price was closer to $10 million-$11 million per year, which is about the going rate for a No. 1 receiver in the NFL.
Why can't they pay them both that? I think they're better off doing that and going cheap on the defense than they are in breaking up the best group on the team (Eli/Cruz/Nicks and hopefully Randle).
It's not my ideal way to build a team, but I don't see the wisdom in changing horses midstream here.
That really is his true value when you are looking
at the market value for WRs and his production.
I've maintained that he should be paid in the 8-10 million dollar range. Still think this gets done at about 8.5 mil per.
Whatever happened to all those Cruz fans that thought he was better than Nicks? Now I hear how he's getting shutdown when Nicks isn't on the field drawing double teams???
Funny how opinions really change around here when money is involved.
If the Giants want him they have to pay up more than 7 mil, that's really well below his mkt value given his production, status and age. He has every right to ask for that kind of money when he looks at what his peers are making.
Remove feelings and emotions and look at the market.
So if you are a player, you pick: money, or success.
Wallace is making 13 million, but his team is going to be terrible. He made less with the Steelers, and not coincidentally, his team was more successful.
That's whAt happens when u hang with gangbangers like
to be the Giants offer is true, and the 10-11 is correct, then he's likely looking to settle at 9 and a Harvin type 25M+ guarantee. He's looking at an injury-prone Harvin contract and that 18M avg by Megatron and thinking he's worth more. He is likely right, and in a better Giants cap environment could get it. He put the ball back in the Giants court for the difference of about 1.5M/yr and 4M more guaranteed.
I really believe the Giants want to hold off on an Eli extension until next year when they can deal with the FA situation midst the Snee/Trel cap situation and just do it all at once. This is not helping. He may be playing with fire now.
What about a shorter term, like 3 years, 8.5M, 11M guaranteed, with the 3rd the option year; still gives him a shot at another big contractif he wants to walk, Giants the option to wave goodbye if he loses a step(or can't salsa anymore). It's pricey but with HN injury prone, don't want to necessarily lose both if HN is not worth keeping and if the injuries stop and we have the full 'him', at least one cap headache is put away and at least part of this duo remains.
This may explain why teams do not want to give a first rounder for him
is nothing compared to the expense of having to spend yet another high draft pick on a WR to replace his production. Hope it's not another Barden, Sinorice Moss or Jernigan. Not to mentioned the draft picks used to select Smith and Manningham, who have also departed (after playing big roles on title teams, at least). At some point before Eli starts going gray maybe we'll let him work with a good receiver for more than 2-3 years and focus our premium draft picks on building up other areas. And yes, I know Victor went undrafted.
Yup. The devaluing of Cruz (who IMO is clearly the best slot WR and one of the 10 best WR overall in the sport) is not something I saw coming this offseason.
much money as you can, while you can. People can pretend if they like be you and I if in the same position, wouldn't be any different. He's not asking for Wallace money so he is in fact being fair if this is true.
Look at the contracts that guys like Garcon and Jackson signed just last year. They are making 8-9 mil respectively.
He's better than both of those guys and his stats blow there's out of the water. This is a passing league right now more than ever and WR's are at a premium. He's in his prime and he will never be in a better position to maximize his earnings. His number is coming in high at 10-12, Giants are low balling at 7, this should get done at 8.5 or bout that figure with a nice 22-25 mil guaranteed.
philosophy here since TC came aboard is to build and enhance the lines on both sides of the ball. Not blow all your cap money on WRs, etc. Stick to that and let him go if he wants too much, period.
Most likely we are saying the same thing. I am torn between wanting Cruz to get as much as he can from the Giants and knowing that any money we do not spend on him will be used to get or retain better players.
based on what guys would fetch on the open market.
You can call it a de-valuation of Cruz if you want but it's clearly not that. And honestly, it seems like those NOT willing to throw huge money at Cruz are more in line with the mindset of the club as of right now.
We've all heard TC's comments on Cruz and we know they come from the top as well. They want him here for the long-term but 10 million a year aint happening.
I just said the same thing, Fan opinion drops big time with respect to value when money is thrown into the conversation. Remove money and talk WRs and Nicks and Cruz are ranked in the top 10 in the league on BBI. Add it and it becomes Eli makes these guys what they are today and there not worth #1 WR money on the open market and there greedy if their greedy for there asking prices and then the Smith references shorty follow. Unreal.
The problem is there aren't many better players than Cruz. If the money that would have gone to Cruz is used to get, say, a good corner and an OK DE...that's a net loss. It's a lot of money for one player, but I'd rather spend on known quality than speculate on quantity...especially when that quality directly supplements the performance of our best player.
10-11 is the MAX he would get from a sh%t team with cap space next year as a UFA... so to give him as a RFA would be assinine at best.... mornoic at worst.
either come down or enjoy the 2.5m and root for health.
Past that, you ask yourself "Can I bring a guy in for 4-6 million and have him produce nearly the same with my future HoF QB?"
That answer, in my mind, is yes. Eli makes these guys more valuable then in many other franchises.
they are trying to sell cruz on "team" when it comes to his salary demands. i dont blame coughlin, but i also dont blame cruz. giants are in a great position if they can keep nicks and cruz. but they need both of them and probably eli to all compromise.
One team in the league last year was over 30M ( Bears at 33M) for their QB and WR combined salaries. In fact, most were between 15-25M. if cruz and nicks get what they should, along with eli and his 20M, giants will be well over 40M for the 3 players plus the other 4-5 WR they would have to pay.
So if thats the care there will have to be major sacrifaces at other positions. Not sure how that will work out.
If I saw the horrific injury to the Louisville basketball player there is now way in hell that I don't get my deal done now. Cruz,of course,is trying to get as much as he can as he should but he would be a fool to play at the tender this year and not take the guaranteed money now. He should put in a call to Steve Smith and Terrell Thomas. One unfortunate play and he could be out paving the street looking for a job.
The Giants know they can have him this year for the tender offer. That gives them another full year to see how things shake out with Cruz, Nicks, and Randle. If Nicks looks like he just can't stay healthy, but Randle looks good - you go with Cruz and Randle. If Nicks looks like the one people game plan for, you see what you have with Nicks and Randle outside - whether you can live without Cruz. At worst, you decide to pay both Nicks and Cruz a bundle next year when you have more cap space.
However, if Cruz decides to go for long-term security - you have a chance to keep all three for something approximating a reasonable figure.
Personally, I can't see dedicating $40M+ in cap space to three guys (Eli=$20M, Cruz/Nicks=$10M+ each) - no matter how good they are. So something has to give.
I've said it before - if I'm Eli, I'm happy to cut back to $10M-$15M/year to help make room for great receivers, a strong line, and a decent defense. I don't see why you get so tied up in being "respected" for having a high salary, and he's going to be incredibly well off no matter how much he makes.
The Giants have to have a walk away number and the number probably is 9 mil per. But this is a negotiation, so of course they are going to come in low and call it fair and to a lot of fans that may seem fair, but in there market it isn't really.
Cruz stands to make a lot of off the fieled money and the complete value of what he'll earn staying here and a salary of 8.5 mil should be enough to get this done at some point.
If Cruz sticks to 10-11 mil, the Giants have to just play this out with the tender. Nicks is next on deck and he will probably fall into that 10-12 range.
is the most idiotic thing possible.
the MOST he will get next offseason from a team up against the cap floor is that #.... so with RFA available... and another year, why the hell is anyone recommending paying him his demands?
He knows he won't get that from the Giants, and basically that is what he is demanding of a team wanting to sign him away from NY.
I have believed all along this will all get done in the end, and I still do. But why shouldn't he shoot for the moon in the mean time? If some team was silly enough to agree to his demands, he wins, if he ends up "settling" for around 7 per to remain a Giant he wins. He is playing this just right IMO.
When Nicks is playing and not playing hurt, he is more valuable. However, if you consider only production and how one player's presence affects the offense, maybe Cruz is a better value.
I believe pganut's asshattery that he'll sign here, and like any negotiations there will be some give and take on both sides. I've felt all along that he'd stay. But this whole saga has made for some interesting debates on player values.
It's not my ideal way to build a team, but I don't see the wisdom in changing horses midstream here.
I've maintained that he should be paid in the 8-10 million dollar range. Still think this gets done at about 8.5 mil per.
Whatever happened to all those Cruz fans that thought he was better than Nicks? Now I hear how he's getting shutdown when Nicks isn't on the field drawing double teams???
Funny how opinions really change around here when money is involved.
If the Giants want him they have to pay up more than 7 mil, that's really well below his mkt value given his production, status and age. He has every right to ask for that kind of money when he looks at what his peers are making.
Remove feelings and emotions and look at the market.
So if you are a player, you pick: money, or success.
Wallace is making 13 million, but his team is going to be terrible. He made less with the Steelers, and not coincidentally, his team was more successful.
I really believe the Giants want to hold off on an Eli extension until next year when they can deal with the FA situation midst the Snee/Trel cap situation and just do it all at once. This is not helping. He may be playing with fire now.
What about a shorter term, like 3 years, 8.5M, 11M guaranteed, with the 3rd the option year; still gives him a shot at another big contractif he wants to walk, Giants the option to wave goodbye if he loses a step(or can't salsa anymore). It's pricey but with HN injury prone, don't want to necessarily lose both if HN is not worth keeping and if the injuries stop and we have the full 'him', at least one cap headache is put away and at least part of this duo remains.
Look at the contracts that guys like Garcon and Jackson signed just last year. They are making 8-9 mil respectively.
He's better than both of those guys and his stats blow there's out of the water. This is a passing league right now more than ever and WR's are at a premium. He's in his prime and he will never be in a better position to maximize his earnings. His number is coming in high at 10-12, Giants are low balling at 7, this should get done at 8.5 or bout that figure with a nice 22-25 mil guaranteed.
You can call it a de-valuation of Cruz if you want but it's clearly not that. And honestly, it seems like those NOT willing to throw huge money at Cruz are more in line with the mindset of the club as of right now.
We've all heard TC's comments on Cruz and we know they come from the top as well. They want him here for the long-term but 10 million a year aint happening.
either come down or enjoy the 2.5m and root for health.
That answer, in my mind, is yes. Eli makes these guys more valuable then in many other franchises.
One team in the league last year was over 30M ( Bears at 33M) for their QB and WR combined salaries. In fact, most were between 15-25M. if cruz and nicks get what they should, along with eli and his 20M, giants will be well over 40M for the 3 players plus the other 4-5 WR they would have to pay.
So if thats the care there will have to be major sacrifaces at other positions. Not sure how that will work out.
The Giants know they can have him this year for the tender offer. That gives them another full year to see how things shake out with Cruz, Nicks, and Randle. If Nicks looks like he just can't stay healthy, but Randle looks good - you go with Cruz and Randle. If Nicks looks like the one people game plan for, you see what you have with Nicks and Randle outside - whether you can live without Cruz. At worst, you decide to pay both Nicks and Cruz a bundle next year when you have more cap space.
However, if Cruz decides to go for long-term security - you have a chance to keep all three for something approximating a reasonable figure.
Personally, I can't see dedicating $40M+ in cap space to three guys (Eli=$20M, Cruz/Nicks=$10M+ each) - no matter how good they are. So something has to give.
I've said it before - if I'm Eli, I'm happy to cut back to $10M-$15M/year to help make room for great receivers, a strong line, and a decent defense. I don't see why you get so tied up in being "respected" for having a high salary, and he's going to be incredibly well off no matter how much he makes.
Cruz stands to make a lot of off the fieled money and the complete value of what he'll earn staying here and a salary of 8.5 mil should be enough to get this done at some point.
If Cruz sticks to 10-11 mil, the Giants have to just play this out with the tender. Nicks is next on deck and he will probably fall into that 10-12 range.
Hopefully Cruz will stay healthy for 2 more years so he can get his huge pay day from some other team.
the MOST he will get next offseason from a team up against the cap floor is that #.... so with RFA available... and another year, why the hell is anyone recommending paying him his demands?
I have believed all along this will all get done in the end, and I still do. But why shouldn't he shoot for the moon in the mean time? If some team was silly enough to agree to his demands, he wins, if he ends up "settling" for around 7 per to remain a Giant he wins. He is playing this just right IMO.
Thoughts?
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