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Microdiscetomy -JPP's procedure

old timer : 6/4/2013 3:14 pm
A 1-2 centimeter longitudinal incision is made in the midline of the low back, directly over the area of the herniated disc. Special retractors and an operating microscope are used to allow the surgeon to visualize the region of the spine, with minimal or no cutting of the adjacent muscles and soft-tissues. After the retractor is in place, an x-ray is used to confirm that the appropriate disc is identified.

A few millimeters of bone of the superior lamina may be removed to fully visualize the disc herniation. The nerve root and neurologic structures are protected and carefully retracted, so that the herniated disc can be removed. Small dental-type instruments and biting/grasping instruments (such as a pituitary rongeur) are used to remove the protruding disc material. All surrounding areas are also checked to ensure no additional disc fragments are remaining.

Recovery.

Most patients are able to go home the same day or early the next day after surgery. Before patients go home, physical therapists and occupational therapists work with patients and instruct them on proper techniques of getting in and out of bed and walking independently. Patients are instructed to avoid bending at the waist, lifting (more than five pounds), and twisting in the early postoperative period (first 2-4 weeks) to avoid a strain injury or recurrent disc injury. Patients should try to avoid sitting in the same position for more than 45-60 minutes in the first few weeks after surgery.

Patients may return to light work duties as early as 1-2 weeks after surgery, depending on when the surgical pain has subsided. Patients may return to heavy work and sports as early as 4-6 weeks after surgery, if the surgical pain has subsided and the back strength has returned appropriately with physical therapy.
bruce wayne got out of that impossible pit  
mattlawson : 6/4/2013 3:30 pm : link
in a matter of weeks from a herniated disc. how bad could it be for JPP?
I feel as if we are starting in the middle of a conversation.  
manh george : 6/4/2013 3:30 pm : link
So, was this affecting JPP's play last year?

It's actually good news if there was a structural reason that can be fixed.
thanks  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/4/2013 3:31 pm : link
for posting!
I would immediately retire.  
x meadowlander : 6/4/2013 3:51 pm : link
That's crazy.
Easy surgery for an experienced neurosurgeon  
mikepaz56 : 6/4/2013 4:00 pm : link
I had procedure last year on L5-S1. Full recovery was 6 weeks
Mattlawson  
Giantfan in skinland : 6/4/2013 4:11 pm : link
I believe Bruce Wayne had a broken back. Using that as your barometer, if JPP isn't back by game 1, this is clearly a contractual ploy.
JPP was over weight last year...  
BCD : 6/4/2013 4:14 pm : link
I guess we're looking at 295 in 6 weeks July 18th....16 tackles 2 and a half sacks and taken out on 3rd down....3rd DOWN!!!!!!! lets hope for the best....to better understand the future you'll have to study the past.
Just like a comedian.....  
Doomster : 6/4/2013 5:56 pm : link
It's all about the time----ing....
Thanks, now my back is  
Upstate_Giants_fan : 6/4/2013 6:59 pm : link
hurting :(
Microdiscectomy is a very common,  
old timer : 6/4/2013 7:22 pm : link
if not the most common, surgery performed by spine surgeons.

Given the timing of the operation. JPP should be full go by the ides of July. You can expect the Giants to be very careful with him in terms of contact.
Anyone who thinks this isn't a big deal  
UConn4523 : 6/4/2013 8:14 pm : link
just doesn't know what they are talking about.
Agree with Uconn here.  
j_rud : 6/4/2013 8:29 pm : link
It may be a minor procedure but as far as "returning to work duties" are concerned you need to consider that JPP doesn't have the average Joe's job. That's not to say he won't be back in time for week 1 but who's to say what his long term prospects are? Accumulating this kind of history at hostage certainly isn't a good thing. At 24 he's had recurring back issues going back to his rookie year. This might not be a major invasive procedure, he may not have major structural damage, and he very well may be fine. But would anyone be shocked of he battles career long back issues?
this kind of history at his age  
j_rud : 6/4/2013 8:34 pm : link
.
Agee with x meadowlander  
Steve in South Jersey : 6/4/2013 8:51 pm : link
and would retire if I were JPP.
Agree  
Steve in South Jersey : 6/4/2013 8:51 pm : link
.
Gronk is going to have his career  
UConn4523 : 6/4/2013 8:55 pm : link
cut short drastically with his 2nd micro surgery. This is JPPs first and if it doesn't hold up, his career will be down the shitter too.

This is a common surgery for regular people to go back to their desk jobs after a short amount of time and back to the treadmill after 6 weeks.

Football is just a whole new ball game and I don't care how fit and athletic these guys are. This just isn't good news at all.
I heard on pti tonight  
fame56 : 6/4/2013 9:05 pm : link
that the giants are now saying a 12 week recovery and the goal is being ready for opening day

remainder of ota's, training camp, and pre-season are out for jpp per this report
I think  
UConn4523 : 6/4/2013 9:07 pm : link
week 1 would be a miracle. I still think he gets PUPd as will Gronk.
Week 1 would not be a miracle  
djm : 6/4/2013 10:37 pm : link
but it's probably safer to expect JPP playing full steam ahead by around week 3-4.

For comparisons sake Steven Jackson had the same procedure in may of 2010 and played in all 16 games-- rushed for 1200 yards.

It all hinges on JPP's recovery but based on other recoveries he should be back playing in September. This isn't a good thing but its not the worst thing. What we all should hope for is that the surgery centered on L5 S1 -- my doc said that this area is the best spot to perform the surgery on. The MIcro procedure is Taylor made for L5 S1 - my doc's exact words and he also said one of the better case scenarios for a back injury is the L5 S1 disc.

And again-- everyone is different  
djm : 6/4/2013 10:42 pm : link
But my doc pretty much ho hummed the surgery and recovery. And he wasn't the type to mince words. He flat out called it a minor procedure. I was still a bit freaked because back surgery is fucking back surgery but I won't lie, it was cake.

With that said, back surgery aren't necessarily one time deals. They can lead to future surgeries. JPP has to adjust his workout and routine from here on out. It's a different ball game for him now.
I don't think this is a big deal  
schabadoo : 6/4/2013 10:42 pm : link
And I've had the procedure twice.
It's akin to the clean up procedures  
Pork and Beans : 6/5/2013 6:13 am : link
You hear about in the knee. The big worry isn't that the surgery does damage, but that the situation that caused the pain in the first place is not fixed.

My guess is this will be an ongoing problem that will affect him to some degree for the test of his career. Hope I'm wrong.
The definition of minor surgery is surgery on someone else.  
old timer : 6/5/2013 7:16 am : link
That said, 12 weeks seems like a long, long time to recover from this procedure.

Granted football recovery is different. But most of the articles on this type of surgery say that folks are back to normal and can play sports after 4-6 weeks. That means six week is the slow recovery.
I mean no offense to you personally  
UConn4523 : 6/5/2013 7:18 am : link
but the fact you had it done twice is exactly why it's a big deal.

The surgery itself is cake to perform. It's pretty easy to recover from and get back to normal. But it's alarming that its happening to a 275 pound athlete with a prior history of back pain. Micros don't correct structure; it's a pain reliever only and only cures sciatic pain, usually not the back pain.

This isn't good, plain and simple.
Old Timer  
UConn4523 : 6/5/2013 7:21 am : link
That means running or basketball at the gym, not football. 6 weeks and then back to football would not only be a miracle, it would be ludicrous to even try.

Why are people comparing the normal recovery time of regular people to a 275 pound football lineman?

This isnt an ACL surgery where being a freak athlete will help. This is a back problem that said athlete already had for a while and hasn't gotten better.

12 weeks is extremely generous and I'm highly skeptical.
a naive question  
fkap : 6/5/2013 8:15 am : link
let me preface it by saying that I am not naysaying the waiting, but....

What's the biology behind giving rest a chance? Do discs unbulge all by themselves? If I understand it correctly, it's not that the disc is out of place, it's that the disc is damaged. Seems to me once a bone is out of shape, it's out of shape. So, for the average joe, rest would allow all the support system (muscles/ligaments/etc) to reduce inflamation/swelling/out of whack, and then resume a moderate lifestyle. For a harsh physical lifestyle, though, I'm having a hard time getting behind the biology of how not correcting the root cause is going to be a fix.

additionally, if JPP's been resting it, it means he's already out of shape, unless he hasn't truly been resting (which defeats the whole purpose of giving it a time out). Additional resting is going to mean he really will be out of shape, by which I mean a back with weaker muscles/support system. Maintaining weight is different from maintaining tone/strength.
JPP likely  
UConn4523 : 6/5/2013 8:41 am : link
tried core stabilization and very little resistance training trying to get the bulge/herniation to regress. For everyday people, this is sometimes all it takes. For guys this size with this much body stress, I don't think its that easy since damage has already been done far greater than on your average Joe.

Look at it this way. NFL players collide with each other 50+ times a game. 60%-70% of normal people walk around with bulging discs everyday, with or without pain, most of which had no accident or high impact. It's just what happens in the human body.

JPP took the correct route. He tried pain management, rest, core training, etc. That's why I'd do, and anyone else one here would do. Surgery is the last option and although i'm sure he'll be fine and recovery quickly, there is a huge risk with his back moving forward which is why i think 12 weeks is BS.

Additionally, these surgeries don't fix the structure. Only fusion does that (Peyton Manning), and lumbar fusion is far more intense with more drawbacks than neck fusions from what I understand.

Take all these reports with a grain of salt, but I expect him to be out for a while.
Willie McGinest was back in 6.5 weeks  
WillieYoung : 6/5/2013 8:50 am : link
and continued to play effectively for seven years after the first surgery, winning 3 Superbowls. But the "woe is me" crowd on this Board will conclude JPP is done.
Where did anyone say he's done?  
j_rud : 6/5/2013 9:15 am : link
I know eric is trying to create a "kinder, softer" BBI, but hows' 'bout some reading comprehension?
Glass half-full vs glass half-empty  
PEEJ : 6/5/2013 9:27 am : link
.
Does anyone know....  
Racer : 6/5/2013 9:33 am : link
..which disc it was, "L4/L5" for example?
So what other players have had this surgery?  
Curtis in VA : 6/5/2013 9:39 am : link
So far we've got Willie McGinnest and Steven Jackson - both of whom have been productive afterwards.

Anyone else?
'Where did anyone say he's done?'  
schabadoo : 6/5/2013 11:58 am : link
Besides the people saying he should definitely retire?
UConn, I'm trying to think  
Randy in CT : 6/5/2013 12:15 pm : link
of a bigger whiner on this site.

Nope.
let's  
mitch300 : 6/5/2013 12:19 pm : link
look at the other side of the coin so to speak. Alot are saying he is not some guy who works at a desk for a living. However, he also has access to the top DRs, Trainers and equipment money can buy.
Randy  
UConn4523 : 6/5/2013 1:15 pm : link
don't let facts get in the way.

And i'm not whining. People are blaming backflips, dunks, him eating, or even breathing at this point to his back problem. Yet this has been an issue for some years now. Who sounds like the idiot?

Let me know what you'd do if your kid had a back problem and how you'd go about fixing it. I bet you'd go with what JPP tried and use surgery as a last resort, but then again, i'm not telling you what to do since i'm not a parent.

Very little logic on this thread, and it isn't my doing.
mitch  
UConn4523 : 6/5/2013 1:17 pm : link
I went to the same group of Dr's JPP went to. If you have insurance, you can to. HSS is a prominent center and he'll get the same surgical care you or I would. JPP will then have a world class training regiment none of us will, but we won't be going back to football.

Again, a back issue can take down the best athlete's on the plant. I hope this doesn't happen to JPP.
Uconn  
mitch300 : 6/5/2013 1:51 pm : link
Yes I agree. I meant more on the post op care than the actual surgery.
Confused about Old Timer's second paragraph:  
Blackbeard : 6/5/2013 3:01 pm : link
"...allows the disc to be removed," As far as I've read, there is no removal of the disc, but some removal of bone and part of the material of the herniated portion of the disc. Removal of the disc would require fusion of the neighboring vertebrae. That's not what was done in JPP's case.
Correction:  
Blackbeard : 6/5/2013 3:03 pm : link
"..so that the herniated disc can be removed."

Basically the same idea.
no reason to freak  
fkap : 6/5/2013 3:25 pm : link
but also no reason to non chalantly dismiss it, either.

It's a concern. whether it continues to be a concern is yet to be seen.
don't lose sleep over it  
djm : 6/5/2013 6:39 pm : link
JPP will be ok.

Whether he's ok at age 50 is another story.
so you're saying it's  
fkap : 6/5/2013 7:29 pm : link
degenerative?

Otherwise, why would it be ok now, but not later?

and, you're posting here as a quasi person in the know, so what about my 'naive question' as posted above?
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