Agent's Take: Looking at what's next for Victor Cruz

Cruz will play a ton of slot as giants will go with three Wr's sets as much as 2 wr sets with Randle and Nicks on the outside with Cruz in the slot.

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What compounds Cruz's situation is that he can be franchised next year as a slot receiver,

Doesnt exist, this is false.

place to read when the majority of the facts stated in that article was already made on bbi these last couple of months, in the sticky threads and such

it was even reported already that the giants offered a short term deal as implied by the agent in the cbs piece. i think it was, however, back when cruz was represented by that young rookie agent dude

A franchised WR is not broken down position to my knowledge. A franchised WR can probably make $10M now.

The Giants can sit this out and just offer the 2.9M tender. At the end of 2013 season, the will see if Nicks can stay healthy or not and decide who to pay then.

Like others have said, it's a sunna biotch to pay for a franchise QB and 2 star receivers.

traditionally the slot receiver is a specialist receiver that only comes on the field when the situation requires it. That type of receiver is like a nickel corner, a part-time player.

Cruz plays the Z and the Y. On first second and third down Victor Cruz is on the field.

when every other non slot receiver was injured, did Cruz change positions? I'm thinking not. If so, that means the Giants are only going to use Cruz as a slot receiver, and that's all they're going to pay him as.

For instance, the pro Jernigan contingent here says JJ has no opportunity to play as long as Cruz is healthy. If Cruz is so much more than a slot receiver, and JJ is reasonably capable, why didn't they move Cruz and insert JJ?

Source: "NFL, NFLPA release franchise tag numbers" by Marc Sessler, Around the League Writer | Published: March 1, 2013 at 10:46 a.m. Updated: March 1, 2013 at 05:30 p.m

"Cruz and Calvin Johnson are the only two wide receivers in the NFL to rank in the top 10 in all three categories during this span."

First, the article states that Cruz told Condon not to get bids from other teams. But the article doesn't mention that Condon was the second agent working for this off-season. The first agent might not have had the same restrictions.

Second, he does a great job of researching the salaries other receivers have received on the open market recently. I just think he didn't paid enough attention to the differences between Cruz and some of the other receivers situations including the fact he is more of a hybrid who has done his best work in the slot. Not every team is going to pay top dollar for that combination

Thanks for the clarification. I thought that there were compensation distinctions based upon the positions that receivers played for purposes in determining the franchise and transition tag amounts.
I also thought that there was a distinction between offensive line tag compensations.

Rob
The slot terminology is not intended to suggest that the receiver is a specialist receiver. I am only referring to his position on the field.

X is also known as the split-end position. The X is typically split out and plays on the line. This receiver is usually either strong enough to just push guys trying to press them off or the guy is very good with his hands to rip underneath the press and get into his route quickly.

The Y or slot receiver is usually a good route runner who has strong hands and is very quick. You often see teams play their best man-to-man corner against the slot because it is so tough to defend.

The Z WR or flanker lines up off the line to avoid the press. The Z is usually the deep threat of the offense. This player is used to spread the field and also is used to run reverses and to catch screens.

Cruz typically lines up in the Y position.

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when every other non slot receiver was injured, did Cruz change positions? I'm thinking not. If so, that means the Giants are only going to use Cruz as a slot receiver, and that's all they're going to pay him as.

I dont understand your first questions.

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For instance, the pro Jernigan contingent here says JJ has no opportunity to play as long as Cruz is healthy. If Cruz is so much more than a slot receiver, and JJ is reasonably capable, why didn't they move Cruz and insert JJ?

I never heard of a pro Jernigan contingent?

is because our 3 wr sets, is usually Hakeem, Randle/Hixon, with Cruz operating in the slot. Two WR sets, Hakeem and Cruz. When Hakeem missed 3 games due to injury after the Bucs game, Barden and Hixon filled in.

Cruz actually benefits from the franchise distinction because his WR brethren who play the Z inflate the numbers for guys like him who play the Y position.

Guards and Centers also benefit from their brethren on the O-Line who play Tackle, especially Left Tackle.

Its possible I cant think of a why he would let one agent do it and not the other.

I don’t understand the negative connotation.

Cruz doesn’t get bumped down to the slot. Cruz is the z, and he also plays the Y. This a bonus and not a negative.

In the regular defense JPP is the RDE.
In the Nascar package JPP lines up as a RDT, Osi take over as the RDE. Do you guys consider JPP a lesser player because he slides inside? On the contrary its major advantage.

when Nick's injuries made Victor the number one guy.

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It will be difficult for the Giants to have two highly paid wide receivers.

This is an obvious statement, but it concerns me. I am not counting on anything at this point. Perhaps the Giants' offer really is "take it or leave it" now because they don't think they can do much more and still have a reasonable shot at keeping Nicks next year? If they really want Nicks, maybe it really is the case that Cruz is going to play for the tender and then walk after the season?

both Cruz and Nicks long term. That is why they need to make hay this year.

It was the first I had heard of any negotiations and he aid they were close.

He is overplaying his hand in my opinion

1000 yards and 10 TD's isn't good?

Giants cannot afford to pay Cruz the $10M he is apparently seeking. We have already reached our max at $8M IMO. That is a very large gap.

I also fear we may have the same problem with Nicks, who apparently is thinking about ~$12M a year if he has a good season and stays healthy. We cannot afford that either, and I wouldn't overpay for either simply to avoid losing both.

If Cruz is more than a slot receiver, he can do the non slot roles. Almost everyone says his primary asset is his ability as a slot receiver. If he doesn't do more than the slot receiver roles (or the giants don't use him anywhere but slot), then he is indeed just a slot receiver. he can be very good in that role, but he still is just a slot receiver.

the pro Jernigan contingent are those that defend him as potentially being good, but not getting a chance because Cruz is ahead of him. Lumping all of BBI together, if Cruz is more than a slot, and JJ is capable in the slot, why didn't we see that last year? Maybe we did, and JJ just didn't produce. I'd have to look and see how many plays JJ was in for.

what happened there?

new info in it, was that Cruz didn't allow Condon to solicit offers from any other club.

The only way the author knows this would be, of course, through Condon "planting" information to him. So the whole piece becomes a way for Cruz and Condon to "negotiate in the media" without negotiating in the media and therefor still taking the highroad. In principle, anyway.

I guess Condon wanted to make sure everyone knows that it's not that VC couldn't have solicited offers as an UFA, but rather that he chose not to.

If you believe it, which is not necessarily true until you get 31 team FOs to validate it.

Nice subtle work by Condon and his team.

the problem is that Cruz will not have as much success on the outside as he does from the slot. He wants to be paid like a number one outside receiver because he has put up numbers like one. However the problem is that the Giants offense allows for the slot receiver to run option routs so he can be productive. Steve Smith was very productive from the same position before the injury.. Cruz productive after that.

It is very possible that the Giants realize this. The problem occurs however when you dont have that true number one in Nicks on the opposite he isnt AS productive. Nicks tend to draw the top receiver and makes catches even with defenders draped all over him.. That means he draws the tougher coverage.

That being said. They are a very compliment to one another. If they both come in a little under their value they could both prosper with Eli for years to come.

As a former agent, couldn't the author simply have inquired among teams to see if they put an offer in?

That is not new news that Cruz wasn't actively seeking offers during the RFA period. That came out a while ago.

Other than not signing a contract that you think is good value, I don't know how anyone can have any problems with the way Cruz and his agent have handled themselves during this process.

with the best. He has great patience and will wait out Cruz. Most of the time this works to the Giants' advantage. Occassionally, it will backfire. We'll see. I'd be surprised , if Cruz decides to wait an entire year to get a bigger contract considering the risk of injury. Even at the Giants' offer, he'll be making a huge amount. Two years ago he couldn't even dream about being in this position.

Agree with you regarding Reese. History has shown that he's more than willing to let the player take his time when it comes to contract negotiations and he will not allow himself to be pressured into doing something he doesn't think will benefit the team or goes against his plan. I also think that Condon knows this by now and at some point tell Cruz 'Hey look...this guy isn't going to up his offer any more than he has so at this point it's a take or leave offer.' and suggest he either sign the long term deal in front of him or play the season on the tender and see if he can have another great year and cash in next year (provided the team doesn't tag him with either the Franchise or Transition tags).

We've been hearing for months that this thing is getting close to being resolved from both sides (Giants and Team Vic). I see no reason why that wouldn't be the case. At this point it's my belief that Cruz is simply taking advantage of the fact that he's not under contract at the moment and using this time to do everything he wants to do while he has the time to do it and will sign either the tender or the long term contract right before training camp. Right now he doesn't HAVE to be there (or risk getting fined), so he's not.

fkap - I think what Rob is saying is what many of us have been saying for awhile now and, IMO, is THE main reason why this contract has been so difficult to get done and that's the fact that Cruz is not only a slot receiver. He starts, along with Nicks, on the outside and moves into the slot when the team goes 3 (or more) wide. Not sure what your point regarding Jernigan is since he's done so little since coming into the league. Since he's been here he's always had at least 3 healthy WRs who the team perceives to be better than him ahead of him whether it be Nicks, Cruz, Hixon, Randle or even Barden. It's telling that the game where Jernigan may have had the best shot to get on the field this past season (the Panthers game) they instead decided to go with a rookie (Randle) at the 3rd WR spot than Jernigan (see link below to review of Panthers game).
Randle handles the #3 spot - ( New Window )

I think there is a subtle difference between "not actively soliciting" and downright refusing your agent the permission to solicit. But I could be nitpicking.

I agree that there's no complaint to be made about Cruz or his agents' action till now, in any way. They are refusing to sign an offer they feel is below VC's value, which is their right. At the same time they are saying VC wants very much to remain a Giant.

Hopefully it gets done at numbers both sides can swallow without choking.

expert, but clearly it sounds like locking up both Cruz and Nicks long term will be a tall order at best (which is supported by the linked article). That being the case, do we really want Cruz to sign a long-term deal if it means increasing the offer a bit? What would that mean for our chances of keeping Nicks?

I think the talent of each wr stands for itself.

While Cruz takes a licking and keeps ticking, Nicks misses some games every year.

The problem is that without Nicks, Cruz's impact on the game is reduced.

Is this a chicken or the egg situation?

And Reese knows this so he can be patient because I would expect Condon to move toward convincing Cruz to take the Giant's offer as time begins to run out. Its a heck of a lot more than he'd make if Cruz play's on his tender.

I just checked the salary page on BBI and right now there are only six Giants who play offense (Eli, Wilson, Beatty, Baas, Dielh, and Snee) slated to make a million dollars in 2014. (I'm not counting Myers options.) There's a similar number of defensive players who are being paid well.

I know that's not their cap number but it seems to me that the Giants are set up going forward to add to that number as at least two to four of their larger contracts will soon be off the books. (Rolle, Baas, Snee, and Webster)

So I disagree that the Giants can't afford two big-time receivers.

there are only five giants on offense with a salary over a million dollars in 2014. I brain-freezed by adding Dielh to the list

Super-informative. Thanks. I'm troubled by the view (or reality) that Nicks and Cruz cannot both be part of the team long-term. Clearly each makes the other better and each is less without the other. If that's accepted -- and maybe it isn't or maybe there's someone else who can develop into the same kind of threat one of them represents (but that's iffy) -- one would think both and their agents would be on the same page trying to work out something collectively for the common interest of both, as opposed to separately, to have that pairing last as long as possible and that Reese/Coughlin would be on that page, too.

Thanks. The part we don't know though is what they are thinking going forward in terms of the big picture. The article points out that most teams don't have the luxury of having two expensive WRS. Clearly, there is a long-term cost to having two highly paid WRs locked up in the sense that it might negatively influence signing (and re-signing) other players. No? I wonder if they think it is worth it or not?

It's interesting he states that Seattle is the only team in the league with both starting WRs making over 8 million a year. I'm sure it helps that they have a QB who's still on his rookie (and not second or third) contract.

Most teams don’t even have two receivers that are as good as Nicks/Cruz.

This is one of the best posts I have ever read on BBU. Thanks to all I appreciate your efforts.

If I may ask a simple question?

If the normal fan understands the issue with Cruz putting up numbers as a WR due to our system allowing at this point for Victor to excel ... and we need to be able to pay our other WR of worth to assist the team to be successful ...

Why would Victor attempt to get blood from a stone?
Being a local boy it would be win win for him within the big apple market ... vs becoming a Tiki - Lite situation.

Kind of shooting himself in the foot no? Little short sited.

It seemed pretty clear once we had injuries etc last season Cruz at times grew short arms going for passes (see Baltimore game) and could not carry us.

My speculation is that they are going to allocate a portion of the budget to Nicks and Cruz and do their best to get both of them in it. If they can't then they will go to a plan B which I believe involves getting Nicks signed because he is less easily replaced than Cruz. At least that's seems to be the public plan they allowed to leaked.

But regarding the team wide big picture, I'm sure we will continue to see another big free agent added to the Defense soon probably in the secondary and it looks like mid-level veteran defensive linemen will be added to the mix as well. We probably won't see another large free agent signing on offense for a little while

I actually had something about that in my original reply (i.e., most teams don't have two WRs that good, so maybe it's a non-issue). Nevertheless, the guy who wrote that article is a professional agent and probably understands the nuances of the cap very, very well. I am trying to consider the source here.

I wonder if going fwd teams will budget more $ towards the WR position and in that model fork over the big $ for 2 WR's and a franchise QB. You can already see them taking that money away from the RB position with the WR contracts that have been signed this off season.

I meant that I wrote something about it but edited it out before I made the post.

Rodger that :)

The defense is on the verge being retooled, that includes the coaches.

The article, do not need to read it. Thd Giants have placed a number on Cruz, what they believe Cruz is worth paying on this team, and I think that the Giants need to continue to stick to that offer, IF the agent approaches the Giants and has a compromising offer, say they back off of their demands and come closer to what the Giants are willing to pay, then they need to listen to what the new proposal would be, if it is close enough, maybe then you say what the hell, but NEVER bid against yourself, NEVER. For those who think that Cruz is indispensable, I disagree with that notion, would it hurt the team not to have Cruz, sure it would, but other players would get an opportunity to help the team, and you never know what happens in those situations. I hope we sign Cruz, I like Cruz a lot, but I am 100% behind the Giants on this one, we are a team, not a bunch of individuals, for that role go play for the Jets, that is what you have over there.

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NEVER bid against yourself, NEVER

Seriously. How is that even possible???

Is Jerry Reese and his multiple personalities bidding on the same player?

For those interested this is how much each team has spent on the WR (2013)

Team WR
Seahawks $20,793,974.00
Eagles $20,651,537.00
Lions $19,931,439.00
Bears $19,706,243.00
Redskins $19,664,925.00
49ers $19,525,698.00
Chargers $18,544,633.00
Falcons $18,434,583.00
Texans $18,267,999.00
Titans $17,112,746.00
Cardinals $16,299,247.00
Jets $14,287,050.00
Saints $13,530,600.00
Panthers $13,449,838.00
Bills $13,362,400.00
Chiefs $13,113,378.00
Colts $12,812,020.00
Packers $11,614,964.00
Giants $11,595,979.00
Patriots $10,905,916.00
Broncos $10,724,159.00
Ravens $10,128,964.00
Bengals $10,020,118.00
Steelers $10,013,862.00
Cowboys $9,838,415.00
Dolphins $9,818,403.00
Jaguars $9,681,040.00
Vikings $9,530,173.00
Buccaneers $8,326,562.00
Browns $7,904,095.00
Raiders $5,407,298.00
Rams $4,173,053.00

Always put a source; I suspect this is it.


NFL Salary Cap Spending by Position - Offense (courtesy of overthecap.com) - ( New Window )