My single biggest concern this season. I disagree with his approach to defense. I'm hoping he can get the defense to play at the level it did for the final 6 game stretch in the 2011 regular/postseason because outside of that there is not much to hang your hat on.
I'd like to see them clean up the run defense, 3rd down conversions, and TOP. All of these aspects working against us keep our best player and greatest chance of winning (Eli) off the field. Not a good formula for success, but unfortunately these are a byproduct of Fewell's bend but don't break/hope for turnover philosophy.
there was no guess work with this Giant defense.....it wasn't until the end of the season, when Fewell was desperate, that he attempted to blitz more....
Throughout the season, it was mainly just pressure from the front four, going up against 6 and 7 guys, giving the QB all the time in the world for opposing receivers to go to the holes in the Giant defense....
That was the beauty of Spag's defense....6 or 7 guys would line up in the box, and you never knew who was coming....sometimes only 3.....but it made the the OLmen have to guuess on who was coming, and make the qb think twice about holding onto the ball so long....not Fewell's defense....it was the same old 4 man rush....
I don't think it is necessarily about blitzing more but you nailed it in your next comment. It is about the illusion of bringing pressure. You have to make the offense think. You have to make them adjust.
EVERY defense that is used in the NFL works but, at the same time, EVERY defensive or defensive call has weaknesses. The quicker a QB can see the defense the better the chances are that he can expose the weaknesses. The longer the QB has to throw the better the chances are that he will expose the weaknesses.
I have been a proponent of blitzing more but it isn't as simple as just dialing up a blitz. A lot of work goes into designing blitzes. I am also a firm believer that pass rushers are born not made. Like speed, you can improve on it but only so much. You either have it or your don't. When your front four are not getting home due to a bunch of reasons (players not playing up to their ability, teams max protecting, etc.) what are you doing about it. Calling out the players saying they are getting one on one blocking and are not taking advantage of it is a lazy approach. Scheme so you can get a blitzer/rusher coming free.
They need to learn, first, how to disguise their defense/coverages. Make the offense think. Make them doubt themselves. Just by doing that changes a ton. All he needs to do is design a few well thought out blitzes that get home. If it is successful a couple of times the QB/OL/RB, etc. will be thinking about that and throw their game off. He just needs to attack offenses mentally. I'm so sick and tired of everybody lining up where they are supposed to be other than the corners up on the WR only to bail out deep. That is the only movement on defense. The safeties do move but barely and it is usually because someone on offense went in motion and they are adjusting to that other than disguising anything.
One, Fewell said he loves to bring pressure. I think that is news to a lot of people.
Two, when asked about playing man more and why that is not always the best thing to do he answered with a couple of different answers but ended with something like you don't always have people that can play man coverage. That was interesting to me. Most fans feel that we are much better suited for man coverage with our secondary guys. I also think part of that leads back to not disguising your calls. If you are lined up showing man coverage it is easy for a QB to see his matchups and attack our weakest link or at least which WR he likes against their DB more. If that is the case I can understand that but if you disguise your call and you don't show your matchups then it is a huge advantage for the defense.
I'm not one that is against a three man rush but like my last two posts it is all about disguising it and still getting those one on one match ups. When used and set up correctly a three man rush can be very effective. Spags used to use it a fair amount and it even worked last year against GB. With that said, it isn't something that should be used all the time.
As for your other comment, yeah, I hope we don't go with the "don't cover anybody" defense. That never worked unless Romo overthrew his receiver two years ago.
during the Baltimore game last year. We had the Baltimore offense in some 3rd and 15s, 3rd and 22s, didn't matter. They converted them all. Wide receivers and tight ends downfield with not a soul around them.
It won't cure everything, but I think we have a chance to improve quite a bit if Prince takes the jump we are all hoping he does, among other things, of course.
When people bring up that point I bring up this point; it was reactionary. If you don't practice something you aren't going to be good at it. That day nothing was working and he tried something different so I give him credit for that but you can tell that wasn't the game plan.
I look at that game as the exception. When we have opened up games pressing and bringing pressure under Fewell this team has done well. SF and GB come to mind from last year. That Baltimore game was just a disaster all around.
It's not like he didn't do it until the 2nd half. We basically played that way from the onset. It just.. didn't work.
I don't think he went into the game telling them they were going to play it one way and then after 2 quarters just abandoned it and said "fuck it, let's blitz"
was that he had the luxury of Strahan, Tuck, and Umenyiora all functioning at a high level. The individual efforts from his pass rushers was never something Spags had to compensate for in his defensive scheming.
I really don't feel like getting into this again but you really think it is all on the players? Do you think that Spags deserves any credit and Fewell deserves no blame?
time, Fewell is dealing with three guys who are five years older and JPP with an injured back instead of Strahan. Tuck, Osi and the DTs had weak seasons last year and that really hurt the Giants. Which is why we saw the Giants reload the DT position and let Osi walk with the intention of giving his snaps to Kiwi and JPP figuring on better production that way
wasn't just how he disguised his blitzes, it was how when they showed blitz and faked the blitz that it made the o-lineman stay home more and allowed more 1-1 matchups for the d-lineman. we don't see that from fewell
I'm not saying the players are at fault but I always start at the top and I don't think Fewell gets the most out of our players. Spags got away with DeLoatch, Madison, Webster (when he struggled his first couple of years), McQuarters, Ross, etc. in the secondary. He also got Mitchell to play the best he ever has. Fewell has much more talent in the secondary yet there are constant miscommunications, blow coverages, big plays, long drives, etc. Its not entirely black and white but Fewell doesn't get the most out of his players. If we want to bring it to something so simple that is as simple as I can make the comparison. I'm not necessarily making this a Spags vs. Fewell post. I'm just pointing out how one was able to get the most out of his players and the other seems to have guys have below par years.
Yeah I was joking around. Three man rushes are fine if you mix it up with constant pressure and then all of a sudden stop and drop an extra person back.
The other comment is my feeling of the horrible blown coverages time after time. If I see that again this season I will flip out.
but for whatever reason (age, injury, inexperience) those guys didn't produce in the way we expected them to last season. It became a liability for the entire defense.
The DE position is very unique in football in that it's not heavily dependant on scheming. If no pressure is put on the quarterback from out of that position then it's largely due to that individual player and not the play that was called from the sideline.
but everyone does that disuige blitz stuff to confuse the offense and make the pre-snap read more difficult for the QB. Part of the reason why it worked was the healthy veteran DB's the Giants had in 2007. Listening to Fewell talk about Hosley making the connection of the type of leverage to use to the play call this offseason and similar comments about Prince taking his game up a level makes what Webster gave the 2007 team even more amazing because no one saw that coming.
By the way, Spags got 32 sacks from three defensive ends that year. Tuck and Osi combining for 23 sacks a year is a distant memory.
And not to get too into this again.. but I just hate the "Spags gets the most out of his players" argument because if he did, what the heck happened last year? His defense was even worse than ours was. Brutally bad.
A DC as good as Spags is made out to be around here has to be able to do better than absolute worst in the league even if his personnel is subpar.
I'm not disagreeing with that part. Part of it was being a poor run defense which has always been a problem with Fewell. Another part is team's quick gamed us more and we had no answer. That part particular is the part that drives me nuts. Teams are consistently getting rid of the ball much quicker to negate our pass rush and Fewell's only response to that was guys need to win their one on one battles. That is just lazy. You counter the quick game by disrupting the routes of the receivers which we saw very little of last year. Even though Prince has short arms he was a press corner in college yet he plays ten yards off the ball. Webster before he broke his hand was mostly playing off the ball.
I don't care what he has done outside of this organization. I'm talking about when he was here. I said I was not comparing the two guys. It was more of an example of guys playing above their ability as opposed to guys under achieving. That's all. It doesn't have to be Spags. It can be anybody. Spags is just the last guy we had that did that.
I'm a season ticket holder. I go to all the home games. I specifically watch the secondary. I even pointed it out to my girl friend. I would point out other defenses and show her all the movement they have. When the giants were on the field I would point out how they almost never move. She saw it and understood it. I'm not saying that if you disguise it that it will definitely work. What I am saying is that if you don't do it you are putting your defense in a bad position.
robbie, the run defense suffering during Fewell's time
hasn't occurred in a vacuum. This team has had a remarkable amount of injuries along the interior line and at the LB position over the last 3 seasons. We haven't had a healthy, legitimate player at the MLB position since Antonio Pierce.
It's not even really just responding to your comment in particular.. it's just that there seems to be this perception that Spags is some sort of defensive minded God amongst a lot of posters and I just don't understand how if he's as good as everyone thinks he is, why was his defense so horrifically bad last year?
I agree that it seems logical to counter a short passing game by playing press but I find it hard to believe that all of us could make that simple observation but the guy running the defense can't. Not that I assume Perry Fewell always makes the right call.. but I have to believe an adjustment that simple would have crossed his mind. I can't say I know why he more often than not chose to play off but my guess is that he doesn't think our CB's were best suited playing up regardless of what they've done in the past. I really don't know.
I would just like to see the players know and execute
their assignments on a much more consistent basis. I won't be pleased, but I can live with, a player getting physically beat, but I can't stand the mental mistakes. Especially once the inevitable injuries come, we need the system and preparation for everyone to know what the hell they're doing.
What I don't get is you have people saying "Fewell's defense is too complicated.. the only reason they got hot at the end of 2011 was because he simplified everything and made it so players didn't have to think so much and could just play".. and then you have other people saying the defense isn't creative and no one's moving pre snap and nothing's getting disguised and all of the blitzes are too vanilla.
There is so much that I see that I don't like with Fewell. It seems like simple corrections that aren't made not even just within a game but made throughout the season. Yes, he has battled injuries but so does every team. Injuries should never be an excuse (at least if you want to last in the NFL). It just boggles my mind how vanilla this defense looks. The problem is it isn't and that is causing a lot of confusion. What I don't like is that we don't dictate to the offense. We are a reactive defense which is why I think he wants people stationed where they are supposed to be post snap. It seems like we run complicated coverages which is a reason for the miscommunication or blown coverages. Instead of being a defense that says we are going to do this so we can disguise it, it seems like we run a defense that says if this receiver goes here we will be in one coverage but ifthis happens then we go yto a different coverage, etc. I have no idea if that is the case but that seems the most logical to me.
I still can't get over the time we played the Colts and we only dressed like two DTs. I know TC has to sign off on all of that stuff but that was Fewell's gameplan. Peyton said, lets run the shit out of the ball. There was nothing you can do about that. That was ridiculous.
Arc, I understand your concerns and saying if we can think of it then he must have thought about it. I agree with that. I just think he coaches scared and wants to play it safe. That doesn't work in the NFL. He plays deep off coverage not to give up the big play but we led the league last year in most big plays given up. We play where we are supposed to play post snap because he wants everybody in position but with the bad communication people aren't where they are supposed to be. We struggle with up tempo offenses because we can't make the proper substitutions and we can't relay the calls. He doesn't want to jam because I firmly believe he believes we don't have guys that can do it. Instead we play a lot more zone and guys have proven to struggle in that area. We wait for the turnover but if we don't get it then we kill any offensive momentum because our offense is sitting on their ass (yes, it works both ways if the offense is going three and out).
The one thing he does well is generate turnovers. I don't think that happens on accident. But there needs to be a balance between turnovers and a defense that can force a three and out.
I'm hoping Fewell can give me and all other doubters a big FU.
he better, because this is his contract year. If the defense is a shit show again, he won't get re-signed. This is a year when he needs to the defense to be top 10 or mid range in total defense.
I'd like to see them clean up the run defense, 3rd down conversions, and TOP. All of these aspects working against us keep our best player and greatest chance of winning (Eli) off the field. Not a good formula for success, but unfortunately these are a byproduct of Fewell's bend but don't break/hope for turnover philosophy.
Yea, I said it.
Throughout the season, it was mainly just pressure from the front four, going up against 6 and 7 guys, giving the QB all the time in the world for opposing receivers to go to the holes in the Giant defense....
That was the beauty of Spag's defense....6 or 7 guys would line up in the box, and you never knew who was coming....sometimes only 3.....but it made the the OLmen have to guuess on who was coming, and make the qb think twice about holding onto the ball so long....not Fewell's defense....it was the same old 4 man rush....
EVERY defense that is used in the NFL works but, at the same time, EVERY defensive or defensive call has weaknesses. The quicker a QB can see the defense the better the chances are that he can expose the weaknesses. The longer the QB has to throw the better the chances are that he will expose the weaknesses.
I have been a proponent of blitzing more but it isn't as simple as just dialing up a blitz. A lot of work goes into designing blitzes. I am also a firm believer that pass rushers are born not made. Like speed, you can improve on it but only so much. You either have it or your don't. When your front four are not getting home due to a bunch of reasons (players not playing up to their ability, teams max protecting, etc.) what are you doing about it. Calling out the players saying they are getting one on one blocking and are not taking advantage of it is a lazy approach. Scheme so you can get a blitzer/rusher coming free.
They need to learn, first, how to disguise their defense/coverages. Make the offense think. Make them doubt themselves. Just by doing that changes a ton. All he needs to do is design a few well thought out blitzes that get home. If it is successful a couple of times the QB/OL/RB, etc. will be thinking about that and throw their game off. He just needs to attack offenses mentally. I'm so sick and tired of everybody lining up where they are supposed to be other than the corners up on the WR only to bail out deep. That is the only movement on defense. The safeties do move but barely and it is usually because someone on offense went in motion and they are adjusting to that other than disguising anything.
I'll be happy if we can start with that.
Two things stood out to me.
One, Fewell said he loves to bring pressure. I think that is news to a lot of people.
Two, when asked about playing man more and why that is not always the best thing to do he answered with a couple of different answers but ended with something like you don't always have people that can play man coverage. That was interesting to me. Most fans feel that we are much better suited for man coverage with our secondary guys. I also think part of that leads back to not disguising your calls. If you are lined up showing man coverage it is easy for a QB to see his matchups and attack our weakest link or at least which WR he likes against their DB more. If that is the case I can understand that but if you disguise your call and you don't show your matchups then it is a huge advantage for the defense.
As for your other comment, yeah, I hope we don't go with the "don't cover anybody" defense. That never worked unless Romo overthrew his receiver two years ago.
Fewell's blitzes need to be better but so does the personnel. If guys can't cover man to man, we can't send extra rushers.
I look at that game as the exception. When we have opened up games pressing and bringing pressure under Fewell this team has done well. SF and GB come to mind from last year. That Baltimore game was just a disaster all around.
It's not like he didn't do it until the 2nd half. We basically played that way from the onset. It just.. didn't work.
I don't think he went into the game telling them they were going to play it one way and then after 2 quarters just abandoned it and said "fuck it, let's blitz"
How many times did we play off and give up a shit load of points/yards?
The other comment is my feeling of the horrible blown coverages time after time. If I see that again this season I will flip out.
I think injuries and players underperforming were probably more of a culprit as far as sacks go last year than anything else.
The DE position is very unique in football in that it's not heavily dependant on scheming. If no pressure is put on the quarterback from out of that position then it's largely due to that individual player and not the play that was called from the sideline.
By the way, Spags got 32 sacks from three defensive ends that year. Tuck and Osi combining for 23 sacks a year is a distant memory.
A DC as good as Spags is made out to be around here has to be able to do better than absolute worst in the league even if his personnel is subpar.
That's my bold prediction.
I agree that it seems logical to counter a short passing game by playing press but I find it hard to believe that all of us could make that simple observation but the guy running the defense can't. Not that I assume Perry Fewell always makes the right call.. but I have to believe an adjustment that simple would have crossed his mind. I can't say I know why he more often than not chose to play off but my guess is that he doesn't think our CB's were best suited playing up regardless of what they've done in the past. I really don't know.
I still can't get over the time we played the Colts and we only dressed like two DTs. I know TC has to sign off on all of that stuff but that was Fewell's gameplan. Peyton said, lets run the shit out of the ball. There was nothing you can do about that. That was ridiculous.
Arc, I understand your concerns and saying if we can think of it then he must have thought about it. I agree with that. I just think he coaches scared and wants to play it safe. That doesn't work in the NFL. He plays deep off coverage not to give up the big play but we led the league last year in most big plays given up. We play where we are supposed to play post snap because he wants everybody in position but with the bad communication people aren't where they are supposed to be. We struggle with up tempo offenses because we can't make the proper substitutions and we can't relay the calls. He doesn't want to jam because I firmly believe he believes we don't have guys that can do it. Instead we play a lot more zone and guys have proven to struggle in that area. We wait for the turnover but if we don't get it then we kill any offensive momentum because our offense is sitting on their ass (yes, it works both ways if the offense is going three and out).
The one thing he does well is generate turnovers. I don't think that happens on accident. But there needs to be a balance between turnovers and a defense that can force a three and out.
I'm hoping Fewell can give me and all other doubters a big FU.