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How should the starting O Line shape up?

jeffusedtobeonwebtv : 7/27/2013 7:13 am
I hope Pugh can win the starting right tackle spot. That would allow Diehl to move over to Boothe's guard spot, and Boothe to replace Baas at center. And, of course, you would want Snee to return to his previous form.
Why do you want Diehl in the starting lineup?  
Giantgator : 7/27/2013 7:19 am : link
Why don't you want Baas to start?
Diehl's value is  
MTN-G-man : 7/27/2013 7:36 am : link
as an extra blocker and injury insurance along the line.
Diehl will not move to LG if Pugh starts at RT  
BillT : 7/27/2013 7:45 am : link
Diehl played poorly a G when thay last tried that and Boothe is a better than average LG. Beatty, Boothe Baas are set on the left side. Snee will probably be ready at RG. Diehl will either start at RT or be a reserve.
If the vets are all healthy for the opener...  
Big Blue Blogger : 7/27/2013 7:56 am : link
...the starters are probably Beatty-Boothe-Baas-Snee-Diehl.

You can expect four new starters by 2015. In 2013, the young backups will have a chance to shine in pre-season, and they will have opportunities in real games as the older guys get banged up again. I just don't see an obvious change happening right away, because Pugh may need a year in the program before he's a clear upgrade over Diehl. At this point, James Brewer might have an edge on Pugh, simply based on experience and professional training. We really have no idea what we have in either of them, let alone Mosley, McCants, Herman, Capers or any of the others. So, until somebody gets hurt or somebody steps up, the older vets are the default starters.
If Diehl starts...  
SanFranGiantsFan : 7/27/2013 7:59 am : link
might as well bench Eli.
I'm hoping that Pugh  
PEEJ : 7/27/2013 8:01 am : link
can take the RT spot. Diehl's best quality at this point is versatility. He'd be a good 6th man.
BillT: Alhough I agree with you about the lineup...  
Big Blue Blogger : 7/27/2013 8:05 am : link
...I think you are overrating Kevin Boothe. An above-average starting left guard would not have to settle for a one-year qualifying contract at age 30.

SanFran: I think Manning and Coughlin would disagree about the team's prospects with Diehl at RT. Besides, DD may rebound somewhat with improved health. I'm not saying he's good. Even healthy, at 33 he might be a bottom-five starting RT; but the gloom about the prospect of him starting seems overdone.
AcidTest : 7/27/2013 8:30 am : link
not a fan of Diehl at this point. He was injured last year, but his play had begun to tail off long before that. Snee is also reaching the end. Boothe is decent and solid, but certainly not an All Pro. One asset he does have is his versatility, namely his ability to play center. Baas is chronically injured. Beatty is the only above average starter IMO.

My fear is that we get stuck between aging veterans and inexperienced rookies, and therefore waste the enormous offensive talent we have at the skill positions. We're going to need some contributions from Pugh and Brewer in particular.
I expect Pugh to  
bob in tx : 7/27/2013 8:43 am : link
start game 1 v Dallas.
Baas is > Booth at center  
ZogZerg : 7/27/2013 8:43 am : link
He'll be just fine this year.
With Snee On pup I see Herman getting a lot of work  
Marty in Albany : 7/27/2013 8:46 am : link
Seventh round OLs seldom pan out, but Herman looked impressive in highlight reel. I predict he sticks and contributes this year.
I don't see Pugh starting over Diehl  
barens : 7/27/2013 8:59 am : link
any time soon. And if he does, do not expect better results. Really tough for a rookie to come in and look the part right away.
I am hopefull that Pugh will start at RT game one in Dallas.  
wgenesis123 : 7/27/2013 9:01 am : link
I don't think its the end of the world if he doesn't. I have to believe that before the season is over the RT position will be won by Pugh. Eli will keep Eli alive and well in the meantime. I don't know this to be fact I just hope it to be so.
Ideally I'd love to see Brewer make a huge step forward  
chris r : 7/27/2013 9:03 am : link
and win the RT spot - he's got the talent. Then Pugh can focus on guard and we've got young talent at 3/5 of the OL spots.
I want the best 5 starting  
George from PA : 7/27/2013 9:09 am : link
with the back-up ready to step in if needed
UberAlias : 7/27/2013 9:12 am : link
I agree with you. I think Pugh replaces Diehl at RT sooner rather than later. Both Diehl and Snee started week 1 their rookie years.
Health aside  
UberAlias : 7/27/2013 9:14 am : link
I think the rest of the oline is set for this season.
Baas is more overpaid  
Doomster : 7/27/2013 9:19 am : link
than Boothe is underpaid....

Boothe is screwed....for the service he has provided at LG, factor in his age, and what the vets have been offered this year....

Baas is way overpaid, and was just lucky the Giants were desperate for a center and he was the only one available....his play is slightly better than average...

Snee is a huge question mark....have injuries and age caught up?....we won't know until he gets out there and plays......

You draft an OLman #1, he better be out there as a starter, especially when there is an opening out there for him at RT....all these other lineman were drafted in later rounds and are reaches at best....

If Pugh starts at RT, and Snee can return to form, and Baas can avoid the injury bug, the only potential problem will be a blocking TE.....
With Snee on the shelf...  
Klaatu : 7/27/2013 9:22 am : link
I'm very curious to see who starts at RG in his place. I think Brewer was getting snaps with the ones at mini-camp.
Brewer is definetly a wildcard  
wgenesis123 : 7/27/2013 9:31 am : link
If he wins the job by default it could be a sad situation. If he proves himself ready and takes the job for himself with Pugh learning and pushing for a job. Well than I would say things are looking up. Diehl and Pugh could provide quality depth and competition on the O-line.
Baas actually looks to be in very good shape  
BlueHurricane : 7/27/2013 9:31 am : link
Hopefully he can begin to live up to the deal he signed. Coughlin even singled him out in his presser yesterday.
I'll be very surprised....  
rptl530 : 7/27/2013 9:39 am : link
if Pugh beats out Diehl in training camp. I just don't see it happening although if he clearly does beat him out that would be a very good thing.
I certainly respect the opinions of all fans regarding Diehl  
vince : 7/27/2013 10:08 am : link
But isn't there a designated person working under Coughlin who's job it is to objectively look at the team's play after each game and evaluate te team's weakness'?
If that is so AND the position coach has the responsibility of putting the best player out on the field then I must assume that my fellow fans under a handicap in evaluating the actual value of the player.

I do respect the right of fans to voice their opinion but I would caution them all on making definitive statements. It would make their argument much more appealing if they included sich phrases as IMO," here's how I feel about..."

The definitive statements about any player by a fan not privy to the position coaches meeting is just venting and carries no weight.

At times I'm amazed at the statements made by so many knowledgable BBI-er's.

Is Diehl a good player? You bet your sweet ass he is. If he wasn't it would take about the time of a gnat's fart for TC to replace him. Snee is NOT irreplaceable on the football field in TC's view.

In my opinion TC's mantra is, "the best healthy player plays" unless TC puts him in the doghouse.THERE IS NO EXCEPTION!!.

So carry on with your OPIONS fans but understand you're like a man with a knife at a gunfight.

I like that cliche'

Keep an eye on Mosley as a possible successor to Boothe at LG.  
Big Blue Blogger : 7/27/2013 10:16 am : link
He saw action there with the "Ones" in the spring, when Boothe was filling in for Baas. Mosley has played all over the field, on both sides of the ball. After TE, DL and OT, maybe he'll find a home at LG like Rich Seubert did. Or maybe he's just a square peg with no real position. He already seems to have dropped out of the running at RT.
rptl530 : 7/27/2013 10:19 am : link
needs to take a Valium.

drkenneth : 7/27/2013 10:19 am : link
If Diehl.....  
Ryan : 7/27/2013 10:24 am : link
...starts over Pugh it will likely be because the staff isn't comfortable with Pugh's grasp of the scheme or the number of mental errors he's making in practice/camp. There's an added element of uncertainty here as we also have Robinson stepping in presumably taking a large # of the snaps at the more in-line TE position.

If faced with a situation where you may have a rookie RT treading water, often next to a 2nd year project TE who saw no real action as a rookie, with a HB who may still have some issues with pass protection.......they may decide starting the year out with Diehl is a safer bet if he's go more spring in his step from the surgeries. Doesn't mean Pugh won't take over at some point but the next few weeks will tell a lot.

That being said - trotting out a healthy Nicks, Cruz and Randle will take a lot of pressure off whatever lineup they decide on.

I hope Pugh plays well  
LauderdaleMatty : 7/27/2013 10:26 am : link
But I see his future in the NFL as an interior guy. It's joy about his T-Rex arms either. Think he was a bit of a desperation. Pick by Reese as other than Beatty I don't think any of the other starters are even on the team in a year or two. The need for more youth and depth is still there too.
2014 starting offensive line  
mikepaz56 : 7/27/2013 10:57 am : link
I know I'm skipping this year but I would love to see a young o- line as

Beatty. Moseley. Pugh. Herman's. Brewer. I know I'll get ripped for putting Pugh at center but there has been talk about it.
Pugh is a mid-first round pick  
GmenDynasty : 7/27/2013 11:00 am : link
and supposedly a polished/high football IQ type. He should be starting sooner rather than later at RT. Im hoping latest mid-season.
I'll wait to see Snee play healthy before claiming  
Section331 : 7/27/2013 11:04 am : link
he's at the end of the line. I think a lot of people are overlooking how debilitating that hip injury would be for a position that requires so much leg drive. But it's not the first time BBI has decided to bury a guy while he's still breathing.

I agree with BBB, I think it's Beatty-Boothe-Baas-Snee-DD, at least to start the season, but I hope Pugh can develop quickly enough to slide in if (when) DD struggles. The question is, will TC be willing to pull the plug on DD?
We don't want Diehl at OG  
JonC : 7/27/2013 11:08 am : link
and Baas is the starting C, just look at his paycheck.
If this group is healthy/ready to go,  
Randy in CT : 7/27/2013 11:09 am : link
Beatty, Boothe, Baas, Snee and Pugh would be pretty exciting to watch.
Very solid.  
Beez : 7/27/2013 11:14 am : link
And put me in the group, even if small, who doesn't see Baas as an issue with this line.
Mikepaz56: I think you are at least a year ahead of schedule on Baas.  
Big Blue Blogger : 7/27/2013 11:31 am : link
As JonC said, look at the contracts. Baas's most recent restructure pretty much locks him in through 2014, barring injury. RT, LG and possibly RG will open up before C. My guess would be that Baas's successor isn't on the team yet.

I also think the Pugh-to-center idea is pure projection. Could it happen? Sure, but by all appearances the Giants consider him a tackle, short arms and all. If Pugh gets pushed inside, I hope it will be because Brewer blossoms, not because Pugh fails.
Pugh at C was exaggerated, imo  
JonC : 7/27/2013 11:44 am : link
Someone in the org made the comment he could play there, and writers/fans ran with it. He's going to be given every shot to succeed at RT, befitting his draft position firstly.

Agree with B-cubed in that Pugh moving inside would have more to do with Brewer (or Diehl in the short term) beating him out at RT.

Herman is the wildcard at OG that I want to see in action. His domination at lower levels projects reasonably well to interior OL in the NFL. He and Mosley look like the (early) projected future at OG.
BillT : 7/27/2013 12:14 pm : link
In today's NFL a 30 year old G without a big rep isn't going to get a long term deal. Look at all the vet min players the Giants picked up. I think Boothe's play has been solid. Maybe I overrate him a bit but he gets the job done.
oldog : 7/27/2013 12:58 pm : link
just for info, Eli was sacked 19 times last year, yes 19. Aaron Rodgers, yes a few more, yes, 32 more, 51 in all. And yet everyone on BBI loves to rattle on about the weaknesses of the personnel on the O-Line. Oh, but the running game was nothing, but the two top running backs were hurt, half year for Brown, all year for Bradshaw, and the top WR was hurt and less effective, and the third WR in development, so patterns took longer to develop. The weak Giants O-Line is one of the top three myths on BBI. No chicken licken, the sky is not falling, and the O-Line is fine, has the depth to survive an injury or two, and even though Pugh's arms are too short for him to scratch his nose, will continue to protect Eli well, even though he is not a Fran Tarkenton by any measure. And with three muturing running threats, the G-Men will again run the ball.
Don't forget Jasper....  
dguy901 : 7/27/2013 1:01 pm : link
Huge player that is unknown, all 375lbs.!
There's likely one roster spot - maybe two - for the last eight guys.  
Big Blue Blogger : 7/27/2013 3:12 pm : link
Jasper is vying with McCants, Capers, DeGeare, Browning, Cordle, Goodin and Herman. If I were quoting odds, I wouldn't put him any higher than the middle of the pack; but he has a shot, especially if Snee is slow to heal.
For what it's worth, I think Capers has a legitimate shot this year.  
Big Blue Blogger : 7/27/2013 5:13 pm : link
It bodes well that he was the first man in for Boothe at LG today when KB replaced Baas at center.

Among the younger guys (excluding Pugh, who will eventually start), Capers and Mosley seem to have the best background for a Sixth Man role: both finished their college careers at tackle after moving from TE, and both are now working primarily at guard. Brewer might be a candidate too, considering the work he's getting at RG in Snee's absence.
Oldog, remember how Kurt Warner  
David in LA : 7/27/2013 6:04 pm : link
was getting sacked a lot, and Coughlin figured out he was getting rid of the ball too late? Eli doesn't let the defense get to him, because he gets rid of the ball before they can. Sometimes a great QB masks severe weaknesses in the OL. It's not a myth that there are concerns with the line. Snee's health/age, and RT are legitimate concerns to have.
Because he was sacked fewer times than Rogers  
Doomster : 7/28/2013 11:22 am : link
means our OL was great in pass blocking?

Why do you think Eli completed under 60%? He didn't have the time....he was throwing on the run and many times throwing it away.....

Cinci game was a perfect example....Both int's were caused by the OL....
Concerns yes,  
oldog : 7/28/2013 11:23 am : link
but remember that a bull market (like the present one) climbs a wall of worry. The G-Men O-Line looks good, and promises to get better. A bit of worry is good, and yes someone could put a stopwatch on Eli, who seems to toss it off prematurely sometimes, but at the same time on average his release seems to be more often timely with just enough time to turn and deflect after his release. And Kurt Warner, yes, just held on too long, letting things crumble around him. This summer's reports seem to try to finger Eli and the O-Line while citing the small drop off in completion percentage and yardage, while ignoring the WR troubles, and the RB troubles, which to me fully explain the 11 to 12 differences in the offense.
Eli is the best QB in the league at avoiding sacks.  
Section331 : 7/28/2013 12:36 pm : link
Evaluate to OL by the number of pressures, not sacks. IIRC, the OL was near the top of the league in number of pressures allowed.
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