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Some Camp Observations from day 2

UberAlias : 7/28/2013 8:28 pm
Note: If you want to cut through the intro and get to the meat of the practice report, skip down to Practice Observations.

So Iím on my way to the practice wondering of the weather is going to hold up when sure enough it starts to rain. They have been predicting thunderstorms and if they the team decides to head indoors practice wonít be open to the public. But the rain is not coming down hard so I decide to keep going.

When I get to the facility a half hour prior to the start of practice I am surprised to see groups of people in blue walking from the stadium lots to the center. This is odd I thought, until I realize the lots at the practice field have already filled up and overflowing into the stadium parking. In the practices I attended in 2011 and yesterday this was never required. To further my surprise, I see there is a huge line to get in wrapping itself half way around the lot at the center. In my other experiences here there is nowhere near this sort of crowd and you can just walk right in. The rain was still coming down and I was thinking to myself, this may not be happening today, and even if it does, there is no way Iím getting a seat with a view in the bleachers. Thatís autograph day on a weekend for you, I guess.

I knew if I was patient I could eventually get a spot on the bleachers once people started leaving their seats to get a spot in the area they do autographs, but that could take a while and the masses of people by the fence was four or five deep already, and Iím not particularly tall, so I needed a strategy, and fast. I knew they didnít permit people to stand in front of the bleachers, so I figured if I could get myself on the edge of that area I might be able to get some limited portion of that view, just not all of it, and not straight on. Not bad Ėit worked, to an extent.

So as practice was starting, they were having some challenges keeping people away from the fence in front of the bleachers. There were just too many people and not enough spots with a view. There was one man pushing a boy of, maybe 14, who was in a wheel chair with a big cast on his leg. He was in this area trying to get his boy a spot where he could see. I thought for sure they would find him a spot and asked the man and he said they told him to move because they were blocking the views from the bleachers. I could not believe it. They should have offered to let him come to the other side of the fence, or have some kind of handicapped accommodations, but apparently they didnít and the security guys werenít going to cut this man and his boy any slack. Not cool. In the end, they seemed to give up yelling at people to move away from in front of the bleachers and started letting kids sit there and only asked them to sit. I think eventually this man got a spot near the fence and it worked out, but this was all not well managed.

Anyway, onto the practice.

Practice Observations.

My initial views were limited to only what was right in front of me, but what I could see was right in front of me permitting me to make some physical observations of players, mostly on the defensive side. Here are some of those impressions (most of them we already know):
Mathias Kiwanuka is no longer that slender kid he was when he first came in. Maybe heís bulked up a bit with his return to the trenches, but he looks bigger and thicker than I recall.

Boothe is a big boy. We all know his lower half, but heís got big powerful looking arms and upper body bulk to go with it.

Amukamara looks big enough to play safety.

Aaron Curry is huge. Heís not one of those athletic narrow-waist broad-shoulder types, heís thick and powerfully built.

Ryan Mundy has good size and looks like a KP clone physically.

Michael Jasper looks absolutely massive (is there an adjective to describe bigger than massive?) He makes every other big guy look small.

If anyone has any ideas of Cooper Taylor playing LB, you can forget it. Maybe that 3rd safety role, but there is no way he can be taking on blockers and playing the run play in play out. Heís got the weight because he is tall, but heís narrow and built nothing like a LB. We can check back in a few years if he fills out, but for now, heís all safety and specials.

In team drills I got some good views of the defense. They seemed to be working a lot of turnover drills. First where they would practice stripping the ball from behind the runner. Most of them would strip it out and then pick it up off the ground, but Kiwi, with his long arms, would simply reach around and take the ball from the guyís hands. They were later doing work with the secondary playing your man but then breaking off to make a play on the ball in the air. They did a lot of work on playing your man and focusing on keeping proper positioning.
Soon after they worked on specials. Josh Brown has a boot. I did not know much about him and was wondering if he was a strong leg type, but he looked it to me today. The one thing I didnít like about Tynes was too may kicks returned or not enough height on his kicks. I am wondering if this was one of the factors in deciding to make a change.

When it came to the passing portion Hakeem made a sweet catch on a deep ball early on and that was it for him. Weíve seen the reports from TC and I guess we will have to see how that plays out. As bad a sign as it is, early on, these types of tweaks are very common because you are not used to working and they arenít going to push anything with him. Tyler Sash seemed to injure himself at the end and they were looking at his lower half. My guess at the time was that it was a cramp and I believe that is what TC ultimately reported. There was one other injury I saw where one of the young WRs (I canít recall which one) looked like he jammed a finger trying to catch a ball. They were working on him and he seemed in pain.

If you were to ask me the one thing that stood out to me most today I would say it would have to be the tight ends. Both Adrien Robinson and Brandon Meyers had strong practices. Meyers looks on the small side to me where as Robinson is big and powerfully built, but both can catch. Robinson in one of his catches caught a TD on a fake field goal, but had others. Meyers in particular looks like one of those guys sure handed guys who knows how to find the holes in coverage. I came away very impressed and if we can ever find a way to solidify the line to a point where we arenít always having to rely on TEs chipping on guys as they release, these tight ends could end up playing a very big role in the passing game.

What else?

I reported this yesterday and will repeat again today. Rookie QB Ryan Nassib is getting a lot of reps. He is getting at least as many as Carr, possible more. If I did not know any better I would might actually think they were going to give him a legitimate chance to compete for the back-up job. That said, he has a ways to go. He throws a good ball, but the timing is not there, as expected, and I think there are a lot of throws he needs work on. He seems to work well off of play action.

Some final notes:

Eli had a great looking TD to Cruz on the first play of red (cough cough green) zone.

The back up D lines were stuffing the running plays (hard to tell with no pads though).

LBs Paysinger and Curry blitzed through the middle for what would have been as sack in 11 on 11s.

Damontre Moore looked fast off the ball.

Ever other player was wearing blue shorts except Frank Okam. He was quite silly looking in his grey work out pants. Couldnít somebody have found the guy a pair of blue shorts to wear?

Sean OHara walked by the fence a few times and received well deserved cheers of appreciation from the crowds.

As a group, the LBs seemed to have a good day. Iíll reserve judgment until the pads come on and we see some action in the preseason, but I am starting to think it would not be surprising to see this shape up to be a relatively solid group.

I guess thatís it for now. Iím sure there will be other things that come to me. Iíll post if I think of any worth mentioning.

Unfortunately I probably wonít be able to attend any more practices this season. There is an outside chance I will make it next Saturday but next weekend will be extremely busy and then Iíll be away.
Phil in LA : 7/28/2013 8:43 pm : link
Thanks Uber  
Fred-in-Florida : 7/28/2013 8:44 pm : link
Great to get your observations. Especially the little things like Cooper being thin and not really suited for the LB position that was well speculated see he was drafted.

So lets get this work 2 practices and you quit?
Good report, Uber.  
Klaatu : 7/28/2013 8:55 pm : link
But...don't get offended,'s "Myers," dude, not "Meyers."

Jeez, Klaatu, gimme a break!

Hey, Marty wouldn't make that mistake.

Marty isn't here!

Yeah, no shit!
Uber, Uber, Uber...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/28/2013 8:56 pm : link
AnishPatel : 7/28/2013 8:59 pm : link
I am thinking of going. Usually the beat writer and others talk about drills and big plays. I never been to a camp, but is it possible to log formations and describe that and the concepts being ran? So far, no one has really concentrated in that area, and if I do get a chance to go, that's something I want to do. Something different to focus on. Can stuff like that be done?
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/28/2013 9:01 pm : link
I'm not sure the Giants would be thrilled with us logging formations and posting that on an internet site.

Maybe using a few as an example.
AnishPatel : 7/28/2013 9:05 pm : link
If I don't work for them, still it wouldn't be ok? I am just thinking, that I am not an employee. You have to figure the things they do, it will be on tape anyways. That's what coaches will get from other teams as the season unfolds.

Is it really out of bounds for fans to do that? I've wondered because as a fan I never went, but if I did I want my report to be different. I read the reports, and usually everyone talks about big plays and stuff. If I get the chance I would want to do something different. Maybe corner the market on stuff like formations, and they checked down or threw a deep ball to Nicks against XYX formation out of ABC formation.

And perhaps comment like, looks like the giants are running this concept, with a check down, in the form of a swing route or arrow route by Wilson or Brown.

Just out of curiosity can one write like this?
Thanks Uber  
wgenesis123 : 7/28/2013 10:06 pm : link
Enjoyed your report again. You make me want to be there.
Thanks Uber  
micky : 7/28/2013 10:06 pm : link
Klaatu -ha, I guess I did write it like that  
UberAlias : 7/28/2013 10:11 pm : link
3 times, no less. I'm sure there are plenty of more of that, so be kind. We all do miss Marty.
Great report.  
CT Charlie : 7/28/2013 10:17 pm : link
Can you call in sick midweek?
UberAlias : 7/28/2013 10:30 pm : link
I'm sure you could do something like that but you would need to process a lot of information quickly. You can't tape it so you would probably need a system of short hand to log. It would be imposable I would think to log all he details of blocking and routes run by all receivers, etc. There would be too much that you couldn't process it all without the ability to record. In other words, you couldn't reverse engineer the playbook, of course, but you could document a good deal schematically and conceptually, if you were sufficiently organized, I would imagine.

The team may not love it, but I doubt you would be revealing anything that wasn't already available. I know I would love to see it personally. I would defer to Eric's judgement here, however.
A note on the play Hakeem made on Webster  
UberAlias : 7/28/2013 10:32 pm : link
Webster had great position on him almost throughout but Nicks was able to generate a slight bit of separation at the very end of the route and Eli threw a perfect pass. Webster got beat, but he was not burned.
AnishPatel : 7/28/2013 10:48 pm : link
Yeah I can't tape it, but I do have my break down forms. I can just use that where the formations are already on it. All I would have to do is fill in RB, WR and TE quickly. Routes would be tough, I'd need to recognize concepts quickly and go that route. It would be very hard, but fun to do. Even I don't know how effective that method would be, though I am curious to try. It's very different and so far in reading training camp updates from fans and from beat writers no one has tried. So I just curious. I guess I saw a niche that no one tried, and just was wondering if it can be done.
Thanks for the update  
KWALL : 7/28/2013 11:26 pm : link
Robinson is a guy who can change things for this team. Adding the speed of Wilson at RB and Robinson at TE can tilt the field for the Giants.

Nicks and Cruz would have it easy if Robinson gets on the field with Wilson.
I'm actually pretty excited to see what Myers brings  
dpinzow : 7/28/2013 11:27 pm : link
79 catches last year with average at best QBs throwing to him...he could be a lot more important to the offense than we realize because of how much attention Nicks, Cruz and Randle receive
Anish, the only way it could be done  
JohnF : 7/28/2013 11:27 pm : link
is to tape the practice, and that's forbidden (though with phone cameras, everyone is doing it).

The vast majority of the time, you're seeing bits and pieces of what either the offense or defense is doing. I tried to do detailed reports (see here), and I had trouble keeping up.

Here's how I saw the offense.

You either have the various components doing drills in different parts of the field (TE's working in one area, RB's in another, QB's on another field, Linemen on another). Then you may have 7 on 7's, which are just guys going out either not covered, or covered man to man. You may have 3 QB's tossing the ball at once to 3 receivers running standard patterns (Curls, Flags, Posts, Seams, etc). You might have a QB, RB, and the line...but no WR's..doing dives, off tackle runs, and reverses.

About the only time you see full 11 on 11 (where it's serious) is the two minute drill. And I probably could write down the formations. But I won't...I'm a fan first, and I will not do scouting that another team could use (well, I did mention Wildcat, but the reporters brought that up). Even then, they were going up against base defensive coverages.

The hard part about NFL camps (Marty can probably tell you this, too) is that things are going on simultaneously!!! It's a bear trying to write things down as quickly as they happen, and the pace is furious. Again, I'll see basic stuff out there, but I'm sure that TC and KG put in their real stuff the week after "camp" is done.

I think the bottom line here is that the coaches try to keep things simple in camp; they are trying to evaluate the physical status of their players, not who knows more about the offense or defense. That's better accomplished keeping the offense and defense simple, it makes evaluations easier.

I do love your work on formations (and the discussions..that's REAL football!), that stuff is just great! Oh, and thanks again Uber!
KWALL : 7/28/2013 11:31 pm : link
doesn't bring much more than a dump off option. # of catches on a losing team doesn't mean much and that certainly was the case with Myers.

Robinson would make the team much tougher to defend. If he can get out there and make a few plays, his speed will change the way teams defend.

Myers? Nobody in the NFL is worried about the guy. He is not a mismatch advantage for any LB. Forget about the 70+ catches. It means nothing. We need Robinson to grab this job and take the snaps.
KWALL, I agree with you about Myers  
David in LA : 7/29/2013 12:24 am : link
He hasn't been particularly great in the red zone, not a RAC guy, nor does he set the edge on blocks. Robinson brings the same strengths to the table as Martellus, and I think that's what our offense needs from a true 2 way TE.
sure you can write their formations down  
mikecf2 : 7/29/2013 6:51 am : link
And reveal the check downs hot reads etc. as a fan but it will be a fan that wants other teams to know what they are running. In other words its not a good idea as Eric so politely mentioned.
fbdad : 7/29/2013 7:01 am : link
The reason they don't let opposing coaches come to workouts is so that they can't scout. Why would you want to do their job for them? Go ahead and track for your own enjoyment, but don't post it here.
nygirlie : 7/29/2013 7:42 am : link
You don't think that all the teams have "friends" at the practices doing scouting? It would on the players, not the plays. They already know the plays and tendencies.
UberAlias : 7/29/2013 9:03 am : link
He is not going to be a matchup challenge. You are not saying anything that is different than my impression of him when they signed him. But after seeing him for a couple of days in camp he looks like a guy who moves well, has good hands, runs good routes and knows how to find the soft spots in coverage. This is obviously based on two days of no contact 11 on 11, but when I factor in all the information available (what he has done in the past, the observations I have made, what has been reported by the team) I would be surprised if this guy did not play a pretty big role for us in the passing game.
The beat writers reported that it was Connor not Paysinger  
UberAlias : 7/29/2013 9:14 am : link
Who came in with Curry and would have had a sack. That may be right. Paysinger was in there for one and I may have confused the plays.
Thanks Uber, great stuff!  
Section331 : 7/29/2013 9:14 am : link
I wouldn't read too much into Nassib getting reps; Carr knows the offense, and Nassib has a lot of catching up to do.
UberAlias : 7/29/2013 9:24 am : link
You are probably right, and that is the general thinking, including mine up until this point. But I was surprised by the number of reps he's getting for a couple of reasons. First is, they really want it this year. Reese getting involved with the whole clock thing is not typical. With his comments he has sent a message and it is clear they really want it this year. So when it comes to the QBs, if they were conceeding to keeping 3 and Carr as the #2, then there is plenty of time for Nassib and they can afford to bring him along slowly and prepare Carr to be ready as the backup. But right now it looks like Eli, then two #2s with Carr and Nassib, and Painter a distant 4 who won't be here much longer.

Just throwing it out there.
AnishPatel : 7/29/2013 9:35 am : link
Thanks man. I was just curious because I never been to a TC. A lot of the beat writers report the same thing when they tweet or write up their reports. I was wondering if it can be done. Also, having coached and having did work for the Falcons, I got to see it from a coach's view. So I can understand the different indy drills being done before pass skelly, team, and 2 minute drill. I guess if I go I can take notes and decide what to post and not, so it doesn't put Eric in an uncomfortable situation.

Camp stuff is basic install anyways. It's not like I have the practice script for the day and typing the play word for word. I have the Falcons scripts from when I was there. I don't and will never post that. Anyways the stuff they will see they will get from pre season games and regular season games. I can understand your point though.
This camp  
NJGiantFan84 : 7/29/2013 10:33 am : link
is not like Albany, if you want a seat w/ a view you have to get there early. It sucks for the "late" arrivals, but to allow them to stand in front of the bleachers sucks even more for the people who got there early enough to grab a seat.

I went Saturday and was lucky enough to get a VIP pass and sit in that section. If anybody else has a connection to do this, I highly recommend it. There are limited tix given out and plenty of seats for everyone. The only thing that sucked was when the players lined up in front of us for 7 on 7's, so I had to move around to see.

Hynoski's gf was in ront of us along w/ some of the other players gf's. Hyno's was smoking hott though. I was very impressed.

reported this yesterday and will repeat again today. Rookie QB Ryan Nassib is getting a lot of reps. He is getting at least as many as Carr, possible more. If I did not know any better I would might actually think they were going to give him a legitimate chance to compete for the back-up job. That said, he has a ways to go. He throws a good ball, but the timing is not there, as expected, and I think there are a lot of throws he needs work on. He seems to work well off of play action.

I was initially impressed with how strong his arm looked in warm-ups. Then, when they started throwing the outs, he looked really weak. Inaccurate and the ball was fluttering in. I know it was the first day and all, but he really struggled with those throws.

I fully expect the Giants to keep 3 QB's. I don't think Nassib will show enough to overtake Carr as the back-up, but I also think he will show too much o risk putting on Waivers and then the PS. A lot of teams keep 3 QB's. I love DeOssie's consistancy, but it's a shame we can't use a position player to long snap for us to save that roster spot.

Kiwi did look big. I know he lost 10 lbs the 1st year he moved to LB, so I wonder if he made it a point to put it back on. Randle, Curry and Robinson also impressed me size wise.

Tynes' KO's were  
kickerpa16 : 7/29/2013 10:37 am : link
by design.
Why wouldn't they give Nassib reps?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/29/2013 10:38 am : link
We know they don't like to use 3 roster spots on QBs, and you can't hide Nassib on the practice squad.
Thanks Uber!  
Beez : 7/29/2013 11:55 am : link
in the best tradition of Marty in Albany  
ColHowPepper : 7/29/2013 12:54 pm : link
thanks Uber, nicely done
KWALL : 7/29/2013 1:39 pm : link
He has good hands but I'm still hoping to see much more of Robinson this year.
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