I'm sorry. I'm not an NFL DE, I have not won two Super Bowls, this is not my daily job, but god dammit Justin you're wrong about how to defend the read option and I can only guess it's because your DC is a hack.
You don't read the tackle if you think it's a run of any form, that is NOT your concern. You maintain outside leverage and you keep your outside arm free, and key on the QB, 100 times out of 100. If it's a dive, you don't jump it, you let your triangle clean it up. JPP keyed on a dive last year in Washington and it cost us the game as RGIII ran 50 yards around his side on a crucial play. This is not a typical pro offense, you do NOT NOT NOT read the fucking tackle if you see the pistol and suspect the run. A down block?? Who cares? Let him down block, and have you jump inside, you'll be left hanging by RGIII or whoever the running QB is. You have backside LB or S help? Guess what, they get a pulling guard to contend with or a crack from a WR.
This is fundamentally wrong wrong wrong wrong for playing the read option, it is dead fucking wrong. Our players not being sure of A) what they should do or B) why they should be doing it, is reason #1 why Fewell should go to fucking high school practice and learn to slow down the option. Cal it the pistol, read option, spread option, I don't care, it's a QB based triple option where you KEY ON THE QB every time as a DE. This is football 101 and shockingly it's convoluted by overly wrought over-analysis. You are the key in the play, you are the edge, you are the table setter and you are jumping the dive if the OT blocks down??? JFC, no wonder we gave up 125 yards on the ground last year.
I can hear you already.."I think Justin Tuck knows more than you do fatso". Sorry, he's wrong, just flat wrong and unless someone figures this out, say good night to our running game improving.
Wrong...WRONG!!! - (
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I'm sure you know more about the technical stuff but sometimes I think this stuff is just more complicated than most of us even realize.
It's easy to key in on all of the options that were kept by him and run around the edge for huge gains, but how many times did Morris abuse us up the gut on dive plays because the guys on the edge waited too long to commit and then were too late?
These things are always like chess in the NFL. The read option guys jumped ahead last year but now it's the DC's turns to even things up. I'm sure most of these guys spent a TON of time this offseason trying to figure out how to do it. The blueprint will be out soon enough.
Tuck should see that, and I'm sure the whole defense will make adjustments based on what's working and what's not working. It's also possible that RGIII will be banged up by then, and we may not see much Pistol at all...just conventional Pro Formations.
Look at his later example, when he explains that the OT is going to look for a LB to block, and he explains that he needs to continue to shuffle to fill the space the tackle leaves open. This means he is reading the tackle to understand how to best fulfill his assignment, which is given in advance. Of course, he then reads the QB to understand how to continue his assignment.
You act like he was on the video explaining that he can just ignore the QB - that he doesn't need to read the QB at all. That's simply not the case.
Clearly he understands that the key to stopping this type of offensive scheme is assignment football, and everyone is aware of the gaps and their responsibilities within the assignment. Is that a problem for you?
For example in the triple option the quarterback is reading the 3 technique for the dive and the DE for the pitch. To defend that in the 4-4. I used to have the DT ALWAYS tackle the fullback/running back (if they have the ball or not. The DE squeezes if the OT blocks down. (IF the OT blocks down the MLB has to fill hard). In this case the DE is supposed to destroy the quarterback (again, if he has the ball or pitches it). The outside linebacker/SS will then have the pitch men with the CB squeezing from the outside in and the FS filling the alley. This is how many high school defenses defend the option.
However, we have many different fronts/schemes and assignments vary depending on the front and coverage. NFL offenses are much to complex and would be a huge advantage to them if they knew that every time they run read option, we would always play it the same way. The defensive theory is the same ( assignment football), but the assignments change depending on the defensive call.
Hope this helps.
I don't like his style. I don't like trading yards and time of possession playing for the turnover. It tires your defense and eventually as the season drags on attrition and injury take their toll. You have to dictate, be aggressive and get the fuck off the field on 3rd down.
Mason, whose arm seems to be surgically attached to the dry-erase marker, draws a straight line signifying an instant rush from a defensive end—the unblocked one opposite the tight end side of the formation—to the quarterback. If the unblocked end charges in this fashion, and if you don’t have an inside linebacker or safety moving into the vacated gap, good luck stopping the read-option.
This hard-charging end is left unblocked for a reason. He’s like a basketball player trying to defend a pick-and-roll by himself. In other words, he’s powerless. If he comes at the quarterback, the running back takes the handoff. If the end angles his shoulders toward the dive back, the QB pulls the ball back from the handoff (also called the mesh point) and takes off around the corner, forcing the end to turn back and give chase.
Mason depicts a solution on the whiteboard, showing the unblocked end first going upfield, at no one, and then squeezing down on the running back once he gets the ball. The idea is to let the quarterback make a decision without giving him all the information he wants.
He says the big issue is, in an option, the QB wants to make a fast read. But if instead of crashing in the DE goes upfield a bit then the QB doesn't get his fast read and so if he hands off then NOW the DE can crash down. Don't give him his fast read.
The Article from TheMMQB - ( New Window )
Part of the issue is RG3 is very good in the mesh at hiding it so it's tough to read. Part is his speed, he only needs a half step to beat us. And third as others pointed out, the middle of our D was way too soft. Hence our open LB competition and an emphasis on size at DT. (Welcome, Mr. Hanky!)
So, Joey, when you say key on the QB, what exactly are you saying? Attack him (whether he hands off or not) as if you expect him to keep it ? Or read the mesh attacking upfield like Mason says? Explain it to me like I'm Trent...
Tuck clearly talks about this - setting a new line of scrimmage, playing games so the QB doesn't know his real assignment, etc.
First, read the offensive tackle. Then, the near running back. Then, the tight end.
This third read, Nowinsky said, caused problems for Green Bay
link - ( New Window )
As the DE at the point of attack, you have 1 responsibility and that is to ATTACK the QB. Make him pitch the ball. Put your helmet in his chest and plant him.
It isn't very complicated.
See the link for Mike Pattine the former Jet defensive assistant now Bills DC.
What I have discovered is there is a great variety of ways to attack this offense. From changes in fronts switching of gap responsibilties safety positioning.
Have actually come up with a couple of my own. Would like to more about what gray reads are and how to create them.
Here. - ( New Window )
And the option exploits this. As the quarterback slides down the line, a split-second of patience makes those hard-charging pass rushers pay.
The option demands a more horizontal mentality.
link - ( New Window )
That second player doesn't even have to be a linebacker. Alabama, which has won three national championships in four years and boasts the best defense in college football, constantly varies the defenders assigned to the quarterback. When Alabama defensive coordinator Kirby Smart gives a "force" call, he explains, that leads to a gap replacement with the defensive end. "The quarterback sees the crashing end and pulls the ball," Smart says. "We roll the free safety down to the line of scrimmage and he has the quarterback." And all this varies based on the opponent. "If the quarterback is a better runner, we make him give to the tailback," said Smart. "If the tailback is the better runner, we give the force call, and the defensive end crashes inside and makes the quarterback pull the ball."
This year with a new crop of DT's hopefully they are a little more hard nosed in plugging up the middle so we can actually get some plays made from LBs and DEs.
Mason says the QB needs to make a fast read. By two-gapping, as Tuck said, this does not give the QB the info he needs, and so he delays.
Or makes a random decision which negates the whole concept of the read offence. That concept is 11 on 11 i.e. letting the unblocked DE take himself out of he play.
The delay plays into the hands of the defence. The OL cannot stay on their blocks forever.
2. Ignore the OT
3. Hit the QB!
4. Maintain outside leverage
5. Read the mesh point
6. Crash down
7. Form a new line of scrimmage
8. Switch it up to confuse the QB
9. Did I mention hit the QB!?
I guess if defending this offense was simple and obvious then teams wouldn't be struggling so much with it.
But besides that, I think I'll trust Justin Tuck above most people on how to play the DE position.
What makes the option effective is the indecisiveness that it causes players along the line. The slowed reaction is what normally opens up big plays for the offense.
Instructing the appropriate players to read and attack the QB will undoubtedly leave the defense open for big plays against them on occasion, but it will also stop a lot plays at its inception with the residual effect of getting free shots at the QB.
the QB/pitch man concepts are not what u r dealing with in the NFL
The read spread, pistol whatever you want to call it is the triple option out of a shotgun with more passing possibilities replacing the dive fake or adding to it.
On these plays, the QB is "reading" the defense and making a decision, essentially he is forcing them to commit to something and then trying to exploit where they aren't. If your defense waits to read it's dead against this, period. If the DE is crashing inside, outside contain is non existent. You have someone to attack the pitch man and the QB. The pitch man can be the WR on the outside who the QB lobs it to if the man covering him commits to the QB. On the play side, against this formation you will lose if your DE plays paddy cake and tries to read too much. There IS NO TIME to make that read and stop the QB when you're a 275lb DE trying to catch one of the fastest players on the field. You limit his reads, in other words, force him to get rid of the ball by attacking him, not waiting for him.
And why did Alfred Morris kill us?? Absolutely no gap integrity, people not knowing what gap to attack or what player to key on because DTs and LBs are reading,the DE is reading and if anyone of them reads wrongly, you can't stop the run. So again, if the DE is keying on the QB and as a LB and DT and S, you know that, you can focus on attacking the RB or defending the WR/TE in your area and squeeze the play options down.
I realize we aren't running a 4-4 but that gap integrity HAS to be what we use against this front, period.