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Tuesday's News and Tweets from Camp

Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/30/2013 9:14 am
11:40 a.m. – 12:40 p.m. – Players Interviews
1:30-3:45 p.m. – Practice
After Practice – Tom Coughlin
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Atta boy Marvin  
AnotherGiantsFan : 7/30/2013 3:22 pm : link
Ohm Youngmisuk ‏@NotoriousOHM 2m

Looks like Marvin Austin would've had a sack on Nassib. Defense with a strong practice thus far
TRAINING CAMP OFFICIALLY STARTED LADIES AND GENTS  
AnotherGiantsFan : 7/30/2013 3:23 pm : link
Conor Orr ‏@ConorTOrr 1m

Marvin Austin and Eric Herman with the first (almost) fight of training camp. Over and done with. #nyg



Half of BBI knew Herman was gonna get caught in scuffles haha
.  
arcarsenal : 7/30/2013 3:24 pm : link
OG Eric Hermann wears the cage of a fucking WARRIOR.
Alright, good to see some life in Marvin Austin.  
Dave in Hoboken : 7/30/2013 3:25 pm : link
The defense could certainly use a contribution from him this season.
Sorry guys, I'm not sphinx or Eric  
AnotherGiantsFan : 7/30/2013 3:26 pm : link
I'm not gonna post every tweet like a Cruz touchdown or whatever. Just whatever catches my eye.
Austin showing more life than in the first 2-3 years.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/30/2013 3:26 pm : link
.
I hope this isn't Diehl getting abused by a DT on the end  
AnotherGiantsFan : 7/30/2013 3:27 pm : link
Ohm Youngmisuk ‏@NotoriousOHM 3m

Cullen Jenkins getting quite a bit of work at DE today with Linval and Rogers inside. He just has a would-be sack on Eli
Jenkins is exactly what Diehl can't handle: speed and quickness.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/30/2013 3:29 pm : link
.
..  
Dave in Hoboken : 7/30/2013 3:30 pm : link
Quote:
Tom Rock ‏@TomRock_Newsday 39m
Josh Brown 5/5 on FGs.
Boz and Curry with good practices  
AnotherGiantsFan : 7/30/2013 3:30 pm : link
Art Stapleton ‏@art_stapleton 1m

Big practice for Kyle Bosworth, who busted through the line for practice-ending stop in backfield of Michael Cox #NYG

Ohm Youngmisuk ‏@NotoriousOHM 13m

Aaron Curry having a nice practice today with a couple stops and a pick
..  
Dave in Hoboken : 7/30/2013 3:31 pm : link
Quote:
Art Stapleton ‏@art_stapleton 4m
Phenomenal reaching grab by Victor Cruz from Eli in traffic in red zone drills, ducks away from a charging Antrel Rolle for the score #NYG
TTH,  
AnishPatel : 7/30/2013 3:31 pm : link
That's what I was talking to Eric about before. The whole mentality that don't worry Eli will save us. Relax! Eli has this. Down by 298319823? No worries, We have Eli. And when it doesn't happen it's a shock to some fans system.

Total Offense Rank

...NYG

2012...14
2011....08
2010....05

2009...08

2008....07
2007..16
.............[Gilbride]
............[Huffangel]
2006...14
2005...04
2004...23



This is since Eli was drafted. Since 2008, we have top 10 overall. Not sure what else people want. The offense and Eli has carried this team. 14th overall isn't a shitty ranking. It's slightly above average. It's the defenses turn to be consistently good.

Let them be good as the offense for a bunch of seasons.





Liking  
Toth029 : 7/30/2013 3:32 pm : link
The activity of Rogers, Jenkins, and Linval. Meaty front to stop guys like Morris.
Anish  
Toth029 : 7/30/2013 3:33 pm : link
To point out, wasn't the Giants defense one of the highest paid units in all of football last year? I get injuries and all that but they've underwhelmed for several years now.
Anish  
Toth029 : 7/30/2013 3:33 pm : link
To point out, wasn't the Giants defense one of the highest paid units in all of football last year? I get injuries and all that but they've underwhelmed for several years now.
That side of the ball  
AnishPatel : 7/30/2013 3:38 pm : link
has a lot to prove. Let them stay healthy and let's see how the players do with Fewell. It's Fewells contract year now. Hopefully, we can do well, and not extend him. That would be my personal hell, unless we win a SB again, and then extending him, will ease the pain by 10,000%.

I am liking how RR is doing. If he can translates this to the regular season then losing Nicks is fine by me. I can live with RR at X, and slide murphy or draft another at Z. RR is a player I am starting to get most excited to see when it counts!
Mucho respect for Bosworth  
Jon from PA : 7/30/2013 3:48 pm : link
Signing everyone's autographs
a couple of things  
robbieballs2003 : 7/30/2013 3:53 pm : link
I am not a Fewell fan overall. With that said, obviously there are examples where both the offense and defense played like shit. There are also examples where they both played well. I give the offense a little more of a pass because we had such a pathetic OL overall and Nicks' injury really killed the offense. I am also one that preaches injuries are not an excuse and I am basically pointing out that it is an excuse and I'll try to explain.

On offense you have players that can do certain things really well and you tailor your offense after that. That is how you design your plays. When you lose a player like Nicks you cannot adjust your whole offense so you keep your fingers crossed that a guy like Barden or Randle can come in and somewhat replicate what Nicks can do. We got that for one game out of Barden last year. Its not likely you are going to get that production out of a back up. It happened with us when we loser Plax too. It is what makes this offense great but it is also what makes it stagnant when a guy like Nicks goes down.

Now, we look at the defense. The defense isn't tailored to guys specific strengths. The defense is more important than any one individual. Our defense doesn't constantly put one of our players above another. Also, a defense player has it a little tougher than an offensive player with respect to a guy having to be good at everything. If you are a corner you could be going up against a Dez Bryant who is a physical receiver or you could be going up against a Victor Cruz who is more of a technician and quicker receiver. As a corner it is easy for an offense to find a weakness and exploit it. Oh, this corner is slow as shit? Lets put our fastest receiver on him and test him deep. Oh, this DE sucks at playing the run? Lets run power right at him. Defensive players need to be good at all aspects. They need to be able to match up against all types of players.

The best job a DC can do is foresee these matchup problems and have solutions before the games start. You have to think like an OC. It is imperative that you know the strengths and weakness of your defense and you have to have answers for those situation. That is where I think Fewell fails as a DC.

Disclosure as normal. I hope he proves me wrong. I hope he gets this defense turned around. I hope he gives me a big FU. I would live to be wrong.
Pete in VA  
SwirlingEddie : 7/30/2013 4:00 pm : link
Here's an excerpt of the top and bottom net play differentials for last year only:

Code:
DET +10.1 4-12
IND +8.6 11-5
NE +8.1 12-4
HOU +6.3 12-4
PHI +5.3 4-12
PIT +4.5 8-8

BUF -3.7 6-10
MIN -5.1 10-6
BAL -5.2 10-6
MIA -5.7 7-9
JAC -6.7 2-14
TEN -8.1 6-10


That's an average win differential of 1.7 games between the top six teams and the bottom six.

NYG was -3.0 net plays per game for the year.

Sorry, it's a link to an article on an Eagles site - ( New Window )
Big people  
Defenderdawg : 7/30/2013 4:03 pm : link
Tom Rockþ@TomRock_Newsday24s
TC on using Cullen Jenkins at DE & Rogers at DT: "Not just matching personnel but matching it with some large bodies, large people inside."
robbie  
JonC : 7/30/2013 4:03 pm : link
Good post, we agree on PF especially.
If we are going to use Jenkins outside  
robbieballs2003 : 7/30/2013 4:04 pm : link
that means there is a good chance we do keep 5 DTs. With the talent we have at DT I would hope we do.
Rock quoting Coughlin on Cruz  
Defenderdawg : 7/30/2013 4:04 pm : link
"I don’t know what you’re seeing,” he said when asked about Cruz looking sharp after missing the entire offseason program. “He’s knocking some rust off, he definitely is. He’s made some really nice plays and he’s coming along and he’s definitely going to get there, but I wouldn’t tell you he’s (sharp)."
Link - ( New Window )
More Coughlin  
Defenderdawg : 7/30/2013 4:06 pm : link
Tom Rockþ@TomRock_Newsday41s
Coughlin said he liked the enthusiasm of the first day of padded practice. Some good thuds. One flurry of punches btwn MAustin and EHerman.
Is this goal line?  
AnishPatel : 7/30/2013 4:15 pm : link
Quote:
TC on using Cullen Jenkins at DE & Rogers at DT: "Not just matching personnel but matching it with some large bodies, large people inside."


I can't see this working on a regular D/D. How will you get pressure?
robbie  
GMANinDC : 7/30/2013 4:15 pm : link
good post on the offense and defense..Like you said, injuries is not an excuse, but it can mitigate some of the play in which have seen. No push from the DT's minimizes the pass rush and we have not had that push in 2 years..I want start on my "we should have kept Cofield", so i'll move on..

I think this year, with the bodies we have in the middle of the line, Tuck/Kiwi/JPP should be able to get lots of pressure on the QB..That should give the defense secondary time to make plays on balls instead of chasing behind WR's..

Guys like Webster, Ross, Brown and Hosley should be able to get a few more interceptions and i really think the D is going to surprise many. If not, then Fewell will have to be gone because he would have no more mitigating circumstances..
Jenkins at DE with Rogers and Linval/Hankins playing DT  
AnotherGiantsFan : 7/30/2013 4:18 pm : link
MackTruck Package?
Anish  
robbieballs2003 : 7/30/2013 4:19 pm : link
Jenkins is very quick for a big body. I know he can rush from inside and rushing from the outside is totally different but I wouldn't rule it out before they try it.

I do believe it is not going to be a consistent thing. I think it would be used in only certain situations.
From today  
Defenderdawg : 7/30/2013 4:19 pm : link
GiantsWFANþ@giantswfan52m
jenkins playing a lot of DE today

Ohm Youngmisukþ@NotoriousOHM54m
Cullen Jenkins getting quite a bit of work at DE today with Linval and Rogers inside. He just has a would-be sack on Eli
.  
arcarsenal : 7/30/2013 4:19 pm : link
Jenkins can generate pressure off the edge. He's quick.
I am skeptical  
AnishPatel : 7/30/2013 4:22 pm : link
with that much size on front also getting a pass rush. I would need to see this on different occasions. For example if our offense wasn't going against our defense. I would scheme Ace-Double Tight against this front. I want to see if we blitz off it or not. We barely ever blitz and when we do it rarely gets home. So is this rush 4 drop the rest?

I don't know, I want to see how this works. On face value, it sounds odd.
I wonder if we'll see a separate defensive approach against Washington  
Go Terps : 7/30/2013 4:24 pm : link
and perhaps Philly. Maybe that helps explain the emphasis on big bodies on the DL.

The Redskins ran for less than 100 yards only once last year, in a loss at Pittsburgh. What did they do that no one else did?

With Osi gone  
eclipz928 : 7/30/2013 4:30 pm : link
JPP dealing with some health issues, and Tuck coming off of a horrific performance last season, it seems wise for the Giants to explore as many options at DE as possible.
I don't think they blitzed enough  
GMANinDC : 7/30/2013 4:36 pm : link
because of the lack of speed of the LB'ers and the bad play of the secondary..Ross or Role used to be the best DB blitzers they had. Rolle had to stay in for coverage and Ross was gone. The loss of Thomas and nagging injuries to Hosley kept everyone at home so blitzing wold have been very hard to do..

If the Dline does it's job, blitzes will be effective and wouldn't have to be used so much..
I'm glad to hear we are blitzing a fair amount in these practices  
robbieballs2003 : 7/30/2013 4:39 pm : link
I'm not saying blitzing is going to fix our problems from last year but when we did blitz last year they were so basic and it looked like we never practiced them. It was basically pointless to blitz. Blitzing isn't as easy as saying this linebacker is going through this hole. It takes a lot of time and preparation.
robbie  
GMANinDC : 7/30/2013 4:40 pm : link
having slow ass LB'ers doesn't help..If Rolle can go back to natureal safety, they will have faster DB's to blitz..
I'm not saying anything about our linebackers  
robbieballs2003 : 7/30/2013 4:44 pm : link
I'm just talking about the design of the blitzes. They are very easy to see and very easy to pick up and adjust to for an offense meaning they are pointless because you know have one less guy in coverage. You are leaving your defense in a vulnerable position. The whole idea is to have an advantage. This also goes back to my point of that we don't disguise anything. Our players are almost always were they are going to be when the ball is snapped meaning less thinking for the offense.
robbie  
GMANinDC : 7/30/2013 4:47 pm : link
i think most blitzes aren't disguised anymore..you can disguise a LB blitz but you can't a DB because he has to be somewhere on the line. Most disguised bliztes i have seen over the years have been by the LB and we they just don't have the speed to utilize it..
From Will Beatty  
Josh in the City : 7/30/2013 4:49 pm : link
@willbeatty65
“A dream is a goal with a deadline” pic.twitter.com/1jmOclyS5N
I would assume that huge DL/DE lineup  
mfsd : 7/30/2013 4:51 pm : link
is a potential anti-Redskins/Alfred Morris strategy...we literally couldn't stop him in our 2nd Skins game last year
I think we keep 5 DTs robbie  
Optimus-NY : 7/30/2013 4:57 pm : link
Quote:
If we are going to use Jenkins outside
robbieballs2003 : 4:04 pm
that means there is a good chance we do keep 5 DTs. With the talent we have at DT I would hope we do
Optimus  
robbieballs2003 : 7/30/2013 4:59 pm : link
It sucked losing Canty and I wish him the best but this could be our best combination of DTs in some time.
I am excited  
AnishPatel : 7/30/2013 5:06 pm : link
to see the LinJo and JH combo. I think with our DTs we have made a big time statement to stop the run. I do like that depth we have as of now.
Eric, I didn't have enough material....  
Crispino : 7/30/2013 5:19 pm : link
for a camp report. I wasn't prepared with a roster and writing materials. More to the point though, you can't see a damned thing. I brought binoculars, but you can really only see when they do unit drills on the near field. Wish I could be more helpful.
I think the reason why theres a double standard with the D vs O  
Neverend : 7/30/2013 5:39 pm : link
Is what the offense has accomplished in recent years. They came off a great year in 2011 as far as passing the ball goes, they were a top 5 offense in 2010. In the 6-2 start in 2012, the giants were the #2 offense in the league thru 8 weeks and had the most plays of 40+yds in the league thru 8 weeks as well (Also t-2nd for least amount of punts even without having a bye week yet)

so when the offense struggles, and has somewhat legitimate justifications for it, its easy for most to give them a pass. Without the typical and very significant production at the 'X', bradshaw playing on bad feet, the coaching staff being stubborn with david Wilson, diehls insertion in the lineup, rumors of Elis alleged shoulder/arm injury, its kind of easier to feel better about the offense long term when you look at the whole perspective as far as their ceiling goes, you know what you're going to get more often than not. For what they've done in the past when healthy and the issues they were dealt with last year, would it kill for the defense to hold a 4th qtr lead in any of those games?

Theres been injuries on defense too but the stigma attached with perry fewell makes the defense far more easy to knock and blame than the offense, even if irrational and nonsensical. The incessant bailing by the corners all year, the 3 deep cvgs, sometimes rushing 4 too much (w4 phi, w15 atl particularly), vanilla/poor blitzing, the Jason witten highlight reel, bah. Theres the case for injuries with perry, Webster sucked but prince had a pretty good year (conversely in 2011 Webster was great and ross struggled mightily), tuck still hurt, jpp with the back. I just don't know what it is, but its just much easier to give the offense a pass for what was 2012 than the defense. Its probably very illogical and silly, but cant help it. I know the offense struggled in the red zone in the game vs Washington but cant help but feel their dominance controlling the ball in the first half is the reason why the skins were held to one of their season lows.

Personally ill always be narrow minded on the issue, I look at 2012 as a matter of health with the offense and contrariwise a defensive debacle. the reality is its probably a 50/50 thing tho
i'm very excited about curry  
GiantsFan84 : 7/30/2013 5:48 pm : link
this is a couple times already I've read that he's looked good out there.
"A dream is a goal with a deadline"  
Pete in VA : 7/30/2013 5:57 pm : link
Makes no sense. Am I wrong? Maybe Beatty meant to say that "a goal is a dream with a deadline", which makes at least marginally more sense . . . I think.
Austin looking good  
djm : 7/30/2013 6:36 pm : link
it's still early but there are signs that Austin just needed a full off season of health and conditioning to finally shine in the NFL. The guy was as raw and unconditioned as one could possibly be last season. No surprise he was bad.

The D struggled last year and at times was horrible but I don't think it's far away at all from a reversal. A lot went wrong last year on defense. What if a lot goes right this season? Even if some of the IFs turn out in our favor, we will be a much better defensive unit. This is a new season. It aint 2012 anymore. We've seen crazier things unfold.
Giant D  
Fish : 7/30/2013 7:04 pm : link
struggled a lot last year but Giants brass has preached needing push up the middle. We never got that. With the beefed up DL, look for a better push up the middle. Which in turn makes everything work better.
Not buying the offense excuses  
Mason : 7/30/2013 7:28 pm : link
When you score most of your points in the 4th quarter and in 2 min drills there is an issue that should be addressed as well. It is a direct correlation to the defensive issues of wearing down late in games vs the Giants offenses coming to 'life'. Defenses tire and offenses begin to move the ball. But if you fail to control the clock early how in the world are you helping your defense late?

Eric said we're a big play type of offense vs grind it out. Well just because our offense is producing that type of game doesn't mean it is a consistent winning formula. If you aren't worry about controlling the clock in games (running the ball, constantly moving the chains) you will continue to be in this position of worrying if the defense has enough gas in the tank for stops in the 2nd half of games.

Both Dallas games, the Eagles game, the Tampa Bay game where the Bucs scored early off the Giants offense while the Giants D was pitching a near shut out against the Bucs offense and the Steelers game. Are just some of the games that sticks out to me. Where the defense is doing their job only to watch 3 and outs from the offense even after getting the ball back into the opponents territory after pretty good ST play. A lot of wasted opportunities early in games. Trading TDs for FGs.

That's why it is foolish to pick one unit as a specific issue when trying to find a solution. There is enough culpability to go around.
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