for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Tuesday's News and Tweets from Camp

Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/30/2013 9:14 am
11:40 a.m. 12:40 p.m. Players Interviews
1:30-3:45 p.m. Practice
After Practice Tom Coughlin
Pads are on today!  
ImaGiant86 : 7/30/2013 10:32 am : link
Somebody hit somebody!!!!
On the camp today thread they are saying its just shoulder pads today.  
wgenesis123 : 7/30/2013 10:34 am : link
Full pads on thursday.
*************  
sphinx : 7/30/2013 10:50 am : link
Art Stapleton ‏@art_stapleton 1m
#NYG OL David Diehl promises to prove he's not done yet in competition w/ Justin Pugh for starting RT spot. #repost http://shar.es/kQ9ys

Diehl isn't done.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/30/2013 11:01 am : link
he's just no longer a starter.
It's not a practice until ass kicking melee ensues  
AnotherGiantsFan : 7/30/2013 11:08 am : link
.
Love the competition between Diehl and Pugh.  
Giants Fan in Steelers Land : 7/30/2013 11:19 am : link
Both should be playing their asses off.
I know people look at camp as the official start to the season  
BLUATHRT : 7/30/2013 11:19 am : link
but every year it scares the shit out of me. I am always terrified of waking up and finding out a key contributor went down in a meaningless drill because of knee on knee contact, or a preseason game. Wish we could just fast-forward to week 1.
Eli gets it RE: Nicks (per Ralph  
jlukes : 7/30/2013 11:25 am : link
Quote:
Hakeem is just being smart. He is coming off some injuries. He's going to want to take it slow and do what he's got to do to make sure when he is out there he is full speed and prepared for these preseason games and start the regular season coming in healthy. We have some time and it is early on and he has been limited in some practices over the spring and stuff, so we want to make sure he goes at his pace to keep him healthy for the year.
BLU  
Emlen'sGremlins : 7/30/2013 11:49 am : link
Ummmm....we already lost JPP and Hynoski. It's a little late for that.
.  
arcarsenal : 7/30/2013 11:53 am : link
We didn't "lose" JPP. He had a surgery that became necessary and he'll be back at some point in the first half of the year. It's not ideal but he's going to play. So will Hyno.
bwah...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/30/2013 11:57 am : link
Art Stapleton ‏@art_stapleton 4m
Corey Webster: "We want to be a Top 5 defense, maybe even the top defense in the NFL" #NYG
With the new tackles and Moore, who knows?  
Stu : 7/30/2013 12:00 pm : link
Added pressure on qb's is a good recipe for turnovers.
Stu  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/30/2013 12:01 pm : link
31st to top five? Sure.
.  
arcarsenal : 7/30/2013 12:02 pm : link
No chance that happens. Not with Perry FOOL coaching them. LOL!!!

In all seriousness, though... if Webster wants this defense to be that good, he needs to take a long hard look in the mirror because it's not going to happen if he has another 2012.
Well unless your last name is Kreskin, I guess we'll have to wait  
Stu : 7/30/2013 12:04 pm : link
and see. 31 to top five is a stretch, but I think they'll improve greatly from last year.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/30/2013 12:05 pm : link
Patricia Traina ‏@Patricia_Traina 1m
FB Henry Hynoski said he's doing everything possible to get back.
Stu  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/30/2013 12:06 pm : link
I think the last time the Giants went from that bad on defense to that good was 1981 when they drafted some linebacker out of North Carolina.
I can't see Perry Fewell's defense  
chrispisano66 : 7/30/2013 12:07 pm : link
ever in the top 5. His philosophy is bend but don't break. Gives up way too many yards and 3rd down conversions.

Since he is here, we have to hope for the best which is a mediocre defense carried by Eli and the passing game.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/30/2013 12:08 pm : link
Patricia Traina ‏@Patricia_Traina 1m
Hyno said he has had no set backs as far as pain or swellingin his left knee.
Just put Nicks on the Strahan camp plan.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/30/2013 12:08 pm : link
He doesn't need to be going full speed and doing all the drills. He needs to be out there week 1-16.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/30/2013 12:08 pm : link
Patricia Traina ‏@Patricia_Traina 22s
Hyno btw, is still is wearing his brace.
.  
arcarsenal : 7/30/2013 12:10 pm : link
chrispisano66.. they were 7th in 2010. So, they weren't top 5 but they were close.
What is he supposed to say...  
Dunedin81 : 7/30/2013 12:13 pm : link
"we aspire to be mediocre, if we can crack the Top 20 we'll be happy"?
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/30/2013 12:17 pm : link
Ohm Youngmisuk ‏@NotoriousOHM 52s
Corey Webster believes secondary can definitely improve w/ Ross addition, improving communication and young players gaining more experience.

Conor Orr ‏@ConorTOrr 3m
Hynoski still pushing for the week 1 return. #nyg

Art Stapleton ‏@art_stapleton 3m
So I guess Corey Webster should have said #NYG want to be a Top 25 defense. Set the bar low. Seriously: what is he supposed to say?

Paul Schwartz ‏@NYPost_Schwartz 1m
Aaron Ross can't stop smiling. Thrilled to be back with Giants after one year in Jacksonville. #nyg
Great...excellent  
chrispisano66 : 7/30/2013 12:18 pm : link
Last year we had opposing punters able to take entires halves of football games off b/c they were not needed. 3rd and long isnt what it should be against this defense. If you have faith in this defense getting a stop when it's needed then good for you. I don't.

And yea, that's exactly what I was saying, Perry Fewell and his players should walk around saying they hope to be the 20th ranked defense.

I love the attitude....  
Wonderphil11 : 7/30/2013 12:21 pm : link
so far on the defensive side of the ball as they absolutely should aspire to be the top defense in the NFL. The biggest problem has been inconsistency but they have shown that they do have the talent to dominate when they are "all in"...seems like they are focusing on establishing that mentality from the outset (as Kiwi referred to in an interview)along with cleaning up any communication problems.
.  
arcarsenal : 7/30/2013 12:22 pm : link
2012 does not equal 2013.

As soon as you figure that out, we can move on.
Being nervous about getting a stop when needed  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/30/2013 12:22 pm : link
they were in the top 10 in fewest points allowed, were they not?


And one area they've been consistently solid under fewell is the redzone defense.

I think the defense is going to surprise a lot of people  
UberAlias : 7/30/2013 12:22 pm : link
For starters, there were not 30 defenses better than ours last year. I never understood the convention of ranking by yards instead of points. I am not saying we were good, but the silly convention for looking at a single stat, and one which is not even the most important stat at that (that would be points allowed) seems pretty silly to me.

Points a pretty important variable when it comes to winning games, and they were ranked #12 by that measure. So is turnovers, and they were ranked #3 by that one.
Haven't they heard of  
SwirlingEddie : 7/30/2013 12:25 pm : link
under-promise and over-deliver? But really if this defense can even play middle of the pack quality this year it could easily make a two or three game difference this season.
Good reference to the "all-in" philosophy.  
Stu : 7/30/2013 12:25 pm : link
Every team talks the talk this time of year, but it just feels different this go 'round. These guys sound like they thoroughly believe this is going to be a special year. The rooks have looked good so far, but it's obviously too early to grade anyone. I also think this is going to be a special year and the Giants really have the goal of being the first team to play in the Super Bowl in their own stadium at the forefront. This more than anything is going to be the overriding sentiment this year, and whatever has to be done by whom is going to be the way it plays out.
I don't care where they rank  
Davisian : 7/30/2013 12:26 pm : link
I just care about key stops at key points in the game..
I care about rank only  
GiantFilthy : 7/30/2013 12:27 pm : link
and don't even want them to stop anything.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/30/2013 12:27 pm : link
Ralph Vacchiano ‏@RVacchianoNYDN 4m
Giants CB Corey Webster: "I still think I'm one of the best (CBs in the NFL). I still think I'm a great cornerback." #NYG

Art Stapleton ‏@art_stapleton 3m
Again - Corey Webster did not say #NYG are a Top 5 defense. He said that's what they aspire to be. How is that talking too much?

Art Stapleton ‏@art_stapleton 6m
Henry Hynoski said he wants to be back for Week 1, but acknowledges the decision does not rest with him. He has yet to run on ground #NYG


Tom Rock ‏@TomRock_Newsday 6m
Ross said the Jags talked about the Super Bowl as a goal last year, but he knew deep down it wasn't a reality

Tom Rock ‏@TomRock_Newsday 7m
Is there a player happier to be here than Aaron Ross?

NFL: AroundTheLeague ‏@NFL_ATL 33s
Colts' Ahmad Bradshaw expects to return in a couple weeks
Chris  
Jay in Toronto : 7/30/2013 12:29 pm : link
it depends how you measure it -- bend don't break may give up yardage but not points.

Eric I hope they make you eat your words :)
We'll see arc...  
chrispisano66 : 7/30/2013 12:30 pm : link
I hope you're right but I don't expect much change b/c this is what Fewell belives in, bend but don't break/turnover or bust. 3rd down stops are important too, they get our greatest chance of winning (Eli) on the field.

We gave away the division last year in the division games..

Opener against Dallas, no punts in the 2nd half, Kevin Ogletree, couldnt get stop on final possession.

@ Philly, no punts in entire half of football again.

@ Wash, couldnt get stop once again.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/30/2013 12:33 pm : link
Conor Orr ‏@ConorTOrr 2m
Jacquian Williams says "it's a new me, it's a new opportunity." Got some reps with the 1's yesterday. #nyg

Conor Orr ‏@ConorTOrr 2m
Williams says he's a full go, not limited at all. #nyg

Ohm Youngmisuk ‏@NotoriousOHM 28s
Jacquian Williams said his goal is to start and be a three-down linebacker. Kept saying he's "good" when asked if his knee/PCL is healthy

Art Stapleton ‏@art_stapleton 1m
Its a new Jacquian Williams - the old Jacquian. Says his goal is to not come off the field. Sounds extremely confident #NYG
Point being they gave up 21.5 points per game. That's very reasonable.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/30/2013 12:33 pm : link
We needed to be better offensively to overcome that. We were not. We scored a lot of points against bad teams and not enough against good teams.
Ten Ton Hammer  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/30/2013 12:36 pm : link
Couldn't disagree with you more. Teams controlled down and distance against us, tempo of the game, and the clock.

Again, 6,000 yards allowed. The turnovers and red zone defense kept scoring down.

Defense is supposed to not just limit scoring but set up the offense too. Three-and-outs.
.  
arcarsenal : 7/30/2013 12:37 pm : link
Uber.. I've always said the same.

I don't understand why people want to equate the totality of a defenses performance to the yards they allowed. I'd rather give up 600 yards in a game and hold a team to 16 points than give up half that and double the score. Points should matter more than yards do. The Giants were 12th in points allowed last season and 3rd in turnovers forced.

I don't think the defense was "good" last year.. but I think a lot of people use yards allowed as the only metric which seems silly to me.
.  
arcarsenal : 7/30/2013 12:40 pm : link
chris.. we DID get a key stop in Washington. We forced them to punt with about 6 minutes left in the game and the offense responded by going 3 and out and punting it right back.
I really think Hankins can make a huge impact on defense instantly  
AnotherGiantsFan : 7/30/2013 12:43 pm : link
I don't usually predict guys making immediate impacts like that, but he's just different. He's going to be so crucial on running plays, they can't double team everybody. This team desperately needed a big body that mixes it up inside and takes pride in stopping the run. That's what he does.

I remember an interview in the offseason where a reporter or whatever asked him where he prefers to play most and he said the 0 technique. Theres gotta be something wrong with you if you prefer to play the 0 technique.
Because of this silly ranking convention  
UberAlias : 7/30/2013 12:46 pm : link
You hear analysts talk like the Giants had the worst defense in the division. Except that by points allowed they were the best, and it wasn't close (12th vs 22nd for Washington 24 for Dallas and 29 Philly).

The Skins surrendered 6 yards per game fewer than the Giants. They also averaged giving up 3 more points a game. Would you have us spot our opponents an extra field goal a game just so we can give up 6 fewer total yards? We would have to give back 4 of our turnovers since we got 4 more than they did. And a sack (we had one more of thise than they did as well).

Except by convention of rankings the Skins D was better, and to hear the analysts talk they actually believe it was.
L, Eagles 17-19  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/30/2013 12:47 pm : link
L, Redskins 16-17




As much as teams have have controlled the clock because we can't stop the run, we had the ball in position to take the lead at the end and failed in two of those losses.

We were offensively non-competitive in two other blowout losses.
Eric, that door swings both ways.  
eclipz928 : 7/30/2013 12:47 pm : link
The offense also has to do things to put the defense in a better position - and despite their overall production last season the offense was guilty of quite a number of frustrating three and outs.

I definitely think the fact that the defense was ranked 12th in points allowed is a reason for optimism. Some health along the defensive line and a little improvement on 3rd downs are reasonable goals - that, along with a seemingly lighter schedule, will go a long ways towards returning this defense to a position of prominence in the league.
I'd rank our defense 12th last year...  
Go Terps : 7/30/2013 12:50 pm : link
the yards matter a lot less than the points.
If I was worried about tempo of the game  
UberAlias : 7/30/2013 12:50 pm : link
I would look at TOP before I looked at yards alloweed. They alos gave up a lot of big plays -it was not all ball control against us.
The truth is the Giants D was poor last year  
UberAlias : 7/30/2013 12:56 pm : link
But it is only historically bad if you only care about yardage allowed. Historically bad units aren't in the top 3rd of the league in scoring or top 3 in turnovers. Or capable of performances like San Fran or Green Bay.
.  
arcarsenal : 7/30/2013 12:59 pm : link
I know we all love Eli but there were games last year where the offense just flat out didn't get it done. And it's not the end of the world. but we have to be fair.

We got into the endzone a grand total of ONE time in a crucial late season game in Washington. Had the ball with 6 minutes left and only needed to get into FG range and couldn't even get a 1st down. We couldn't do anything but go 3 and out late in the Pittsburgh game, punt it right back and let them kneel out the clock. We couldn't score a single point in Atlanta. Scored just 13 points in Cincinnati. Had a chance to beat the Eagles with a FG but pushed ourselves out of Tynes' range with a stupid offfensive PI call. I believe Eli also gifted them an INT right in the endzone in that game as well when we were inside the 10 yard line and at worst, could have kicked a FG that may have ultimately won us the game.

When people talk about the 2012 season, they always seem to bring up the failures of the defense but not many people seem to bring up the failures of the offense. It was a team failure.
Just to be clear  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/30/2013 1:00 pm : link
I'm not making excuses for anyone. The defense did fail at times but by far it's not totally to blame for all our problems.

It's not like we got it done on offense either, and that's where we're supposed to expect excellence and have our biggest weapons.

When ESPN or a publication knocks  
Headhunter : 7/30/2013 1:12 pm : link
theGiants, BBI howls, when a Giant player says he aspires BBI howls
arc good post  
HomerJones45 : 7/30/2013 1:13 pm : link
and good point.
I'm with Arc  
Kevin_in_Pgh : 7/30/2013 1:19 pm : link
You have to look at both sides of the ball.

As I've said before, the problem is that both units tend to swing for the fences - which is great if it works on both sides. But when only half the team is clicking, you get tight games. And things can spiral away fast if you get a situation where there's an offensive turnover, then a blown defense leading to a score, then a three-and-out that gives the opponent the ball with good field position. Suddenly you're in trouble.

The defense definitely had issues last year - but they were also put in a fair number of bad spots by the offense.
to my eyes,  
Dave : 7/30/2013 1:23 pm : link
both OL and DL played poorly when it mattered most last year, neither dictated
The way our Offense ran with  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 7/30/2013 1:30 pm : link
Locklear at RT and instead of with DD is night and day. With Locklear in there Eli had plenty of time to wait for the Receivers to get open, and our offense was ran much better.

With DD in there, Eli had no time for this receivers to get open and our offense stalled, because he needed to get the ball out quicker.
For me- The O and D were a bad match last year...  
drkenneth : 7/30/2013 1:32 pm : link
Our O is a vertical, low % passing game that needs snaps. Not much ball control there.

Our D (at least last year) let the other teams go up and down the field, and while they may have been held to 3 points, the damage was done as they were gassed by end of the game.

Just a bad pairing last year.
Maybe  
NJGiantFan84 : 7/30/2013 1:33 pm : link
I am alone in this thinking, but I feel like a lot of the Vets got very complacent last season after winning the SB (especially Corey Webster). I expect the hunger to be back to an extent and the complacency to be rooted out after the disappointment of last year.
the #1 problem with the defense....  
BillKo : 7/30/2013 1:34 pm : link
last year was stopping the run. It was eye popping how teams could simply run on us.

We improve that, we can easily be a Top 10 defense. And I think the DL depth we have right now is a great first step in that direction.
In the words of Jim Fassel  
Fish : 7/30/2013 1:36 pm : link
We are looking for Pioneers here, not historians. Lets get this defense into the Top 5.
BillKo - exactly  
mfsd : 7/30/2013 1:40 pm : link
defensive rankings look nice in the papers and all, but what I want to see is for us to stuff Alfred Morris and guys like that in the 4th quarter, like we used to in our recent Super Bowl years
I don't have a problem with a bend or break defense  
David in LA : 7/30/2013 1:41 pm : link
We need to figure out what's going on with our 3rd down defense. It seemed like 3rd and long were gimme's for the other team's offense all year.
Our offense was pretty bad on 3rd downs too  
David in LA : 7/30/2013 1:42 pm : link
.
Players are stretching and warming up.  
Crispino : 7/30/2013 1:46 pm : link
I noticed TC having a private and lengthy talk with one of the players as he was stretching....Nicks. Like to know how that discussion went.
and as Eric said...  
BillKo : 7/30/2013 1:46 pm : link
teams dictated tempo and down/distance on us. How?? By running the ball effectively.

Two axioms of football: run the ball and stop the run.

It really still holds true today, if you can do those two things you'll win a lot of games.
FYI  
JonC : 7/30/2013 1:48 pm : link
I posted this in another thread that was deleted, in case it wasn't reported/read.

Diehl is the #1 RT at the start of camp, Pugh is #2.

Brewer is the RG with Snee out.
.  
arcarsenal : 7/30/2013 1:50 pm : link
BillKo.. the team probably agrees since they spent their first 3 picks on linemen.

I think no matter how much this game evolves, winning the trenches will always be paramount.
A couple of observations on personnel.  
Crispino : 7/30/2013 1:56 pm : link
Mike Patterson looks very out of shape. He's round. I know he's short for a defensive lineman, but he just looks fat.
Pugh is one of the smallest O lineman out there.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/30/2013 1:58 pm : link
GiantsWFAN ‏@giantswfan 41s
Always great to see legendary #giants TE Bob Tucker at practice...still looks like he could play
Ten Ton Hammer  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/30/2013 2:00 pm : link
Giants-Eagles...we also had a 4th quarter lead that the defense lost (again).

Football is really a game about possessions. If the other team limits the number of possessions you have, you can't score a lot of points.
Per Dottino  
gmen9892 : 7/30/2013 2:02 pm : link
GiantsWFAN ‏@giantswfan 27s

#giants #nicks moving much better today...guess groin is ok
eclipz928  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/30/2013 2:03 pm : link
Sure, without our #1 WR and a hurt Eli, we had issues in some games. But offense wasn't the problem. We were middle of the pack in running the ball and one of the top passing offenses again.

Defense 31st. Yards do matter. It's not just points. If the other team holds the football, you don't get a lot of possessions. There were games last year where the offense had three possessions in a half.
.  
arcarsenal : 7/30/2013 2:03 pm : link
E.. and it goes both ways. You keep opposing offenses off the field and unable to score if your own offense can sustain drives and hold a significant time of possession edge.
Nicks  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/30/2013 2:03 pm : link
probably saw the show Randle put on yesterday.
Offense can help the defense by limiting turnovers  
Mason : 7/30/2013 2:09 pm : link
particularly turnovers near your own end zone. And for the sake of all that is holy please if you do get a turnover, tackle that man immediately. No more, oh damn we turned the ball over on our 20 yard line and stopped them on the 5 yard line, please defense make a stop just like their defense did when you got a turnover for us earlier in the game.

Yeah that Boley interception and return with the offense going 3 and out still pisses me off.
arc  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/30/2013 2:10 pm : link
Can the offense do better? Sure. But they carry the team. Defense needs to win some games too when the offense is struggling.

If our offense has a bad game, we're screwed. That wasn't true of a lot of Giants teams, including some really bad ones in the mid 1990s.
Possessions  
Pete in VA : 7/30/2013 2:11 pm : link
No matter what happens, each team gets the same number (+/- 1 -- the team that gets the ball first in each half can get one more, but it won't be the same team in both halves). The game is not decided by whether each team gets 10 or 12, but by what they do with them. The only caveats here are 1) that if team thinks that they should score more points per possession than the other team, they will want to increase possessions, and 2)a team that is ahead in the second half may want to limit possessions.
Plenty of examples last season  
JonC : 7/30/2013 2:12 pm : link
of the offense and or defense not getting the job done.

The defense constantly couldn't get off the field on 3rd downs, constantly gave up long pass plays, constantly couldn't stop the run. It was brutal how poorly they played at times, they were often an embarrassment.

It was a Super Bowl hangover and a lack of want to, it was injuries, it was getting their arses kicked physically, it was repeated mental errors, it was giving up an incredible number of big plays, it was suspect (being nice) gameplans by PF.

You could easily assemble a countering list of examples for the offense too.
the defense  
Dave in MD : 7/30/2013 2:16 pm : link
was a major issue even if it was decent in points allowed. There were 4 games when they needed to get a stop to give our our offense a chance to tie or take the lead and they failed each time. And there were 3 games where we only had about 3 2nd half possession. You can't let that happen. Team we completely allowed to dictate the game because our defense couldn't get off the field.
A lot of good points..  
Fred-in-Florida : 7/30/2013 2:16 pm : link
but both the Offense and Defense need to improve.

Nicks being hurt was the biggest thing on Offense. Defense were able to control Cruz because there wasn't another threat. Plus Cruz had some key drops, led the league or was close to it... right? The Offensive line wasn't that good, Deihl was like a rusty gate and Snee and Baas were nicked up. Hopefully Nicks stays healthy this year and I'm liking what Randle has shown so far. Meyers should be a threat in the short to midrange middle opening up alot for Cruz to work his magic.

All three units on the D were horrible last year. But I'm optimistic from what seems to be a new attitude so far. Last year we signed Rivers a top 5 pick and this year we added Curry another top 5 pick. Can one of these guys live up to thier original hype?

I know I'll get killed on my opinion but I don't think Webster was as bad as he was made out to be. It came out recently, or at least I hadn't heard it before, but he had somewhat of a groin problem. I'm sure it contributed to some of his problems. But also how many times was he responsible for the oppositions top receiver and how many of those times was he one on one without help. No I dont have proof and I observe from a Sports bar and I don't, in many cases, have the opportunity to go replay the game. But like I said my opinion.


I do not think it is fair to not include turnovers when evaluating  
giantsfour : 7/30/2013 2:18 pm : link
a defense. If the other team drove 50 yards on you and then you picked off a pass and returned it for a TD, I would think that is a good defensive series. However, if you only look at yards, then it would be a lousy series because you gave up 50 yards.

Conversely if Eli threw for 400 yards but had three interceptions of which two were returned for TDs, I doubt that you would think that he had a good game.

The point is if you do not include turnovers when evaluting a defense the numbers become misleading.
.  
arcarsenal : 7/30/2013 2:20 pm : link
It's a different era, though. You're not going anywhere in todays NFL if you don't have the offense.

Yes, there are more defense-centric teams.. but teams like San Francisco and Seattle took the next step when they started getting dynamic play from their QB's. It wasn't until the Redskins got RGIII that people started taking them seriously. The Patriots are in the mix every year because they're always an elite offensive team.

High octane offense is basically vital in todays NFL.

You can win Super Bowls with an elite offense an an average defense now. It's much, harder to do it the other way around. Teams like the Bears were never really contenders because despite being outstanding defensively, they weren't good enough on the other side of the ball.
So....anything good happening at practice right now?  
GiantSteps : 7/30/2013 2:20 pm : link
I'll take it if it means NO bad news.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/30/2013 2:21 pm : link
Art Stapleton ‏@art_stapleton 5m
Crisp break by Louis Murphy on comeback route from Eli Manning during passing drills. He's been quiet but steady so far #NYG

Conor Orr ‏@ConorTOrr 37s
Still haven't seen Nicks let it rip full speed yet. To me, seems like 3/4 speed. #nyg
Fred, you're not crazy regarding Webster  
David in LA : 7/30/2013 2:23 pm : link
slight correction, his issues had to do with a broken hand he revealed after the season. When Torrey Smith dominated him, Webster was in position for the most part, but looked very poor in tracking the ball.
If Tynes has another two yards on his leg,  
Go Terps : 7/30/2013 2:23 pm : link
or if RG3's fumble doesn't bounce right back to him, the tone of this entire offseason would be very different.

That's just who the Giants of this era are...they're always one game away from being in or out. I still think last year's team was better than the 2011 team.
The problem with relying on turnovers . . .  
Pete in VA : 7/30/2013 2:24 pm : link
To a large extent, it's a game of chance. I think you'll find if you look at the stats that there are wild swings year to year. The Giants could do everything the same this year but have many fewer turnovers, and they'd really be in trouble -- the coaches know that 12 in points could easily have been 30th.
GT,  
AnishPatel : 7/30/2013 2:26 pm : link
The Eagles game, first one, regarding Tynes?
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/30/2013 2:26 pm : link
Art Stapleton ‏@art_stapleton 1m
Justin Pugh in with the first team ... he's tackle eligible on left side in jumbo package #NYG
Pete, for a game of chance  
David in LA : 7/30/2013 2:28 pm : link
Fewell's defenses always place very high in TO's for us. Last year we were 3rd in the league, the year before 5th, and 1st during his first season.
Donnell is a huge tight end.  
Crispino : 7/30/2013 2:28 pm : link
Very quick for a guy his size and soft hands in the passing drills.
.  
arcarsenal : 7/30/2013 2:28 pm : link
The turnovers aren't so much "chance" with this defense.

It's not an accident that they were 3rd, 5th and 1st in turnovers the last 3 seasons. This defense is built to force them and they do.
...  
Josh in the City : 7/30/2013 2:30 pm : link
@TomRock_Newsday
Gilbride laying into Adrien Robinson about something.
Crisp  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/30/2013 2:31 pm : link
Camp report to Eric tonight? (hint, hint, hint) :)))
More so than possessions, look at number of plays  
SwirlingEddie : 7/30/2013 2:35 pm : link


After all, a team can have no more than one more possession in a game than their opponent. It's what they do when they have posession (or what they do when the opponent has possession) that matters.

If a team has noticeably more offensive possessions than their opponent, say 20 or more in a game, it correlates to a meaningfully improved chance to win.

The Giants fell last season to 31st in the league in offensive plays per game (60.5) and managed only a league-worst 50.0 per game in their final three. We have to do better sustaining drives and stopping them.
OK, I think it's time  
Bob from Massachusetts : 7/30/2013 2:36 pm : link
for the old chestnut, "the only defensive stat that matters is 9-7. The 3 units are all inter-related, so really hard to separate out the defense, but your eyes told you the defense wasn't that good last year, and so the other old chestnut, who ya gonna believe, the 12th in points allowed, the 31st in yards allowed, or yer lyin' eyes?
Turnovers  
Pete in VA : 7/30/2013 2:36 pm : link
That's a great stat -- it surprises me, actually, that they've been that consistent -- I think it's unusual. Has the breakdown between fumbles and interceptions been similar?

Let's hope that Kiwi or Moore can replicate Osi's strip-sacks.
Anish  
Go Terps : 7/30/2013 2:37 pm : link
Yeah.

Consistancy and health will tell if defense improves  
micky : 7/30/2013 2:37 pm : link
this year.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/30/2013 2:38 pm : link
Art Stapleton ‏@art_stapleton 48s
Run package with 1st team defense: Cullen Jenkins to DE for Justin Tuck, Shaun Rogers at DT with Linval Joseph. Kiwi at other DE #NYG

Ohm Youngmisuk ‏@NotoriousOHM 21s
Prince just is a nice breakup on a pass for Randle.
Eddie  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/30/2013 2:40 pm : link
that's true, but if you have fewer possessions, there is much more pressure on your offense and defense to perform.

We don't have a grind it out offense. We have a big-play, down the field offense. It's not three yards and a cloud of dust.

On the reverse side, this isn't a good Giants' defense. So the other team often drives the field, resulting at best, our offense having to go 80 yards, at worst, having the other team put point on the board.

More than that, how many times has this defense given up a 4th quarter lead?
Personally  
Semipro Lineman : 7/30/2013 2:40 pm : link
I feel both those who measure a defense by only the points or the yard guys are right to a degree.

The yards only guys who don't give credit for the effective scoring defense are more wrong than others because they are not using the complete picture to judge the defense. There are very few points guys who don't acknowledge the yards problem.

As for the level of improvement we'll see this year, I bet the better run defense from the healther DT's alone improves enough the yards allowed totals to make a huge difference in the Time of Possision stats.

And as Gilbright say the other day, they hope to be able to do with less chipping to help the offensive line this year. That should also help the offense stay on the field longer and expose the defense less. That leads to my theory that small many incremental changes which will lead to a better 2013 defense.

...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/30/2013 2:40 pm : link
Art Stapleton ‏@art_stapleton 1m
Damontre Moore in backfield on first snap for 2nd team ... #DaMonster all over the place #NYG
I've got to run to a meeting if someone else can post tweets...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/30/2013 2:41 pm : link
Art Stapleton ‏@art_stapleton 33s
Good job inside by Mike Patterson stopping a Torain run #NYG

Ohm Youngmisuk ‏@NotoriousOHM 2m
There's some popping of the pads early on in 11s. Sounds good.

Art Stapleton ‏@art_stapleton 16s
Boz 2.0 just blew up Michael Cox in the backfield #NYG
Swirling  
Pete in VA : 7/30/2013 2:42 pm : link
Great graph. Have you got the range in differential from 1-32 fro last year?
Pete, here are the breakdowns  
David in LA : 7/30/2013 2:43 pm : link
21 interceptions and 14 fumbles in 2012, 20 interceptions and 11 fumbles in 2011, and 16 interceptions and 23 fumbles in 2010.
We did have a 4th quarter lead that we lost  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/30/2013 2:44 pm : link
But there's not really a reason to be scratching and clawing for points against the 2012 Philadelphia Eagles.

They were a terrible football team in all phases and we should have hung 25 points on them at least.

Not saying you specifically, but we're all eager to jump on the defense for not doing it's job, and we're letting a high-priced offense go without it's share of the blame.

We failed to score 20 points in SIX games last year.

That's not good enough for a team with a $100m quarterback.


They are not in full pads today, correct?  
Sneakers O'toole : 7/30/2013 2:44 pm : link
They put the full pads on Thursday if I'm not mistaken?
..  
arcarsenal : 7/30/2013 2:46 pm : link
Pete..

Quote:
2012: 21 INT's (3rd in NFL), 16 forced fumbles (T-8th in NFL), 33 sacks (22nd in NFL)
2011: 20 INT's (T-6th in NFL), 13 forced fumbles (T-16th in NFL), 48 sacks (T-3rd in NFL)
2010: 16 INT's (T-14th in NFL), 34 forced fumbles (1st in NFL), 46 sacks (5th in NFL)
C'mon Josh in the City  
AnotherGiantsFan : 7/30/2013 2:47 pm : link
posts those tweets like you never posted before!
.  
arcarsenal : 7/30/2013 2:47 pm : link
Sneaks.. just shoulder pads today. Full pads Thursday.
GT,  
AnishPatel : 7/30/2013 2:48 pm : link
I blame Coughlin for not getting closer.

Quote:
(:49) (Shotgun) 44-A.Bradshaw left tackle to PHI 26 for 1 yard (97-C.Jenkins).

2-9-PHI 26 (:25) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass incomplete deep right to 13-R.Barden. PENALTY on NYG-13-R.Barden, Offensive Pass Interference, 10 yards, enforced at PHI 26 - No Play.

2-19-PHI 36 (:21) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass incomplete deep right to 87-D.Hixon.
Timeout #2 by PHI at 00:10.

3-19-PHI 36 (:10) 9-L.Tynes 54 yard field goal is No Good, Short, Center-51-Z.DeOssie, Holder-5-S.Weatherford.



That's just god awful game play calling.
Ten Ton Hammer  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/30/2013 2:48 pm : link
Division games are often close, low scoring affairs. You keep bringing up the Eagles game. Again, without Nicks. Bradshaw bad foot.

Still, we had the lead in the 4th quarter.

Defense blew it. Like they did against Steelers too. And both Redskins games. Had 4th quarter leads, the defense blew. Defense also blew lead against Tampa Bay in 4th. And should have lost the Dallas game.
that's what I thought  
Sneakers O'toole : 7/30/2013 2:49 pm : link
Thanks Arc!
.  
arcarsenal : 7/30/2013 2:51 pm : link
Eric, the offense blew it against the Steelers just as much as the defense did.

6 total 2nd half points, 0 in the 4th quarter.

The Giants had 3 possessions in the 4th quarter of that game. Every single one was a 3 and out.
.  
arcarsenal : 7/30/2013 2:54 pm : link
NYG Offense in 4th Q vs. PIT

Possession 1:

Quote:
4 13:58 1 10 NYG 35 Eli Manning pass incomplete short right intended for Victor Cruz 17 20 1.27 0.72
4 13:54 2 10 NYG 35 Ahmad Bradshaw right tackle for -1 yards (tackle by Casey Hampton) 17 20 0.72 -0.1
4 13:18 3 11 NYG 34 Eli Manning sacked by Lawrence Timmons for -11 yards 17 20 -0.1 -1.83
4 12:56 4 22 NYG 23 Steve Weatherford punts 52 yards, returned by Emmanuel Sanders for 63 yards (tackle by Steve Weatherford) 17 20 -1.83 -4.78


Possession 2:
Quote:
4 10:30 1 10 NYG 4 Ahmad Bradshaw left tackle for 2 yards (tackle by Brett Keisel and James Harrison) 17 20 -0.38 -0.63
4 9:59 2 8 NYG 6 Eli Manning pass incomplete deep left intended for Hakeem Nicks 17 20 -0.63 -1.19
4 9:45 3 8 NYG 6 Eli Manning pass complete short left to Martellus Bennett for 1 yard (tackle by Ryan Clark) 17 20 -1.19 -2.49
4 9:10 4 7 NYG 7 Steve Weatherford punts 55 yards, returned by Emmanuel Sanders for 11 yards (tackle by Michael Boley) 17 20 -2.49 -2.19


Possession 3:
Quote:
4 3:55 1 10 NYG 12 Eli Manning pass incomplete short left intended for Victor Cruz 24 20 -0.35 -0.78
4 3:51 2 10 NYG 12 Eli Manning pass incomplete deep middle intended for Martellus Bennett 24 20 -0.78 -1.42
4 3:45 3 10 NYG 12 Eli Manning sacked by LaMarr Woodley for -9 yards. Eli Manning fumbles (forced by LaMarr Woodley), recovered by Kevin Boothe at NYG-13 24 20 -1.42 -2.49
4 3:07 4 9 NYG 13 Steve Weatherford punts 51 yards, returned by Emmanuel Sanders for 2 yards (tackle by Spencer Paysinger). Penalty on Brandon Johnson: Offensive Holding, 10 yards 24 20 -2.49 -0.81


Awesome job.
Damontre jumps offsides....  
Crispino : 7/30/2013 2:54 pm : link
flattening Pugh in the process.
arcarsenal  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/30/2013 2:54 pm : link
sometimes the defense has to win the game.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/30/2013 2:55 pm : link
Ralph Vacchiano ‏@RVacchianoNYDN 11s
WR Jeremy Horne being carted to the locker room. Not sure what happened.

Conor Orr ‏@ConorTOrr 3m
Cruz and Randle out with the first string here. #nyg
.  
arcarsenal : 7/30/2013 2:55 pm : link
Oh.. and on those 3 drives, we totaled -18 yards.

Negative 18 yards.
The offense....  
Ryan : 7/30/2013 2:55 pm : link
...just needs to figure out it's constipation between the opponents 5-20 yard lines. When your receivers are struggling with contact underneath it's only going to be exacerbated further when the field is compressed and DBs can squat on routes.....and further still if you can't run the ball situationally against minimally manned fronts allowing more posts in the fence they build across the field. Pile on the injuries along the line and to Nicks and you're getting hit from every direction.

Getting Snee and Baas healthier gives a strong POA, getting Nicks back and Myers providing a reliable chess piece at the move TE position will go a long way. When this team converts in the red zone they light up the scoreboard because there have been very few times when they've been denied a sufficient number of trips.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/30/2013 2:56 pm : link
Tom Rock ‏@TomRock_Newsday 5m
Josh Brown 5/5 on FGs.

Conor Orr ‏@ConorTOrr 5m
Thomas is hanging out here with a bulky wrap on his right knee. #nyg
Expand

Art Stapleton ‏@art_stapleton 36s
Aaron Curry to the house courtesy a gift from Curtis Painter #NYG


Got to run to meeting...
Anish  
Go Terps : 7/30/2013 2:56 pm : link
I don't know if I feel the same way...if Barden doesn't get the PI it doesn't look nearly so bad. There were two bad things that could have happened on that play: a penalty or turnover. Lots of good things could have happened, particularly with the propensity to call illegal contact, DPI, etc.

Eli and Barden just didn't execute.
Are we really arguing about if this defense was good or not last year?  
AnotherGiantsFan : 7/30/2013 2:57 pm : link
The defense was awful last year. I think the defense will be better this year but if it looked anything like last year than we are screwed.
.  
arcarsenal : 7/30/2013 2:58 pm : link
"Sometimes the defense needs to win the game" is a weak excuse.

There's zero excuse for an offense to be that pitiful on 3 consecutive drives when a game is on the line. Not an offense with Eli Manning under center.

I can give them a break if they get one shot and don't come through. But they had 3 chances to do something.. anything.. and not only did they do nothing, they went backwards.

Their best drive of the 3 was moving forward 3 yards. A 2 yard run and a 1 yard pass to Bennett. That's horrendous no matter how you slice it.
It's kind of painting things with a broad brush to say division games  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/30/2013 3:00 pm : link
are often low scoring.

We scored 42 on the eagles the next time we played them. They were not a good football team.

Recent games against the cowboys have been 30+ point down to the wire shootouts.


We are driven by our offense and like to think we have one of the 5-7 best quarterbacks in the league, do we not?

We can't score fewer than 20 points in 6 games.
Eric  
AnishPatel : 7/30/2013 3:02 pm : link
Exactly! That touchdown, long catch and run, by Wallace hurt big time. And of course the offense is going to have issues. You are going against the 1st overall defense with hurt offense. It's wonder the game was that close.

Missed opportunities. Tynes missed a 51 yarder which would have helped. At the end of the 3rd Q we had a 20-10 lead. We should have had that game. How the hell do you choke that lead? No lead is safe with this defense.

That 51 yard TD hurt us and brought the game 20-17. Then those fools tried a fake FG, which they failed, thank god! Ben marched them up the field and they scored and won.

It was a brutal game. Another lead squandered.
The offense under Eli Manning  
chrispisano66 : 7/30/2013 3:03 pm : link
has been a constant, year in, year out. It also literally carried the team through much of the 2011 season until the rest of the pass rush finally decided to join JPP through the final 6 games. That said, last year's offense clearly struggled in the red zone which was a big problem.

Last season boils down to a missed opportunity within the division, based on the division games alone. The opener against Dallas was crucial. They could NOT get off the field in the 2nd half. The Ogletree stuff, forced no punts, couldnt get the last stop they needed. Same @ Philly and @ Wash.

The difference here is this.

One possession need a FG/TD

One possession need a 3 & out/stop.

Which unit do you have more confidence in? I don't know how any fan of the Giants could say the defense.



.  
arcarsenal : 7/30/2013 3:05 pm : link
We had Michael Coe and Justin Tryon playing CB in that Week 1 game against the Cowboys. I can't think of many defenses that are going to get stops with those guys out there.
I have more confidence in the offense  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/30/2013 3:06 pm : link
and yet it is an undeniable fact that this offense got shut down against the Falcons,
shut down against the Ravens,
shut down against the Bengals,
and embarrassed by the bottom 3- ranked Redskins defense in a game they needed to win.
the defense last year was historically bad  
GiantsFan84 : 7/30/2013 3:06 pm : link
they couldn't get off the field. this prevented the offense from getting into a rhythm, prevented the offense from getting better field position, and put tremendous pressure on the offense.

can't just go by scoring and red zone defense.

i'm optimistic the personnel has improved. hopefully fewell will as well
.  
arcarsenal : 7/30/2013 3:07 pm : link
And again, you're wrong about the game in Washington.

The defense forced a huge punt with 6 minutes to go and the offense rewarded them by going 3 and out.. again. All they needed was a FG to win the game and we couldn't even get a 1st down.
TTH,  
AnishPatel : 7/30/2013 3:08 pm : link
And that's why we were ranked 14th overall. That's near mid rank. 14th ranked overall tells me you are average, or slightly above it. You are going to have good games in the season, and bad games in the season, hence being near average. We were exactly that. Injuries was a major reason. Usually we are top 10 overall offense since 2008.

Only one team in 2011 and 2012 spent more of their cap space  
Riggies : 7/30/2013 3:08 pm : link
(% wise) on their defense than the Giants did; 2013 is the first year in some time that there's going to be a shift in their cap allocation. Over the last 5 drafts the Giants have invested more draft picks -- both in overall quantity and the first 3 rounds -- than consistently very good to excellent defensive teams like the Steelers.

Obviously, the offense is better than the defense on this team and the team would be better off if that side of the ball could more consistent to carry the load fully (which isn't likely), but the Giants' actual allocation of resources just doesn't fit the offense-is-supposed-to-always-carry-the-defense, the-defense-has-less-stars stuff, no matter how many times people say it. If they're not getting a return on the investment they consistently make on that side of the ball, it's a pretty major problem.
So you guys want to use injuries  
chrispisano66 : 7/30/2013 3:10 pm : link
when evaluating the defense but not the offense? That doesnt make sense.
GT,  
AnishPatel : 7/30/2013 3:13 pm : link
The play calling even before that was ineffective. We got the 1st down because of the Nmandi penalty. Otherwise we get stopped there. The play calling sucked that whole series. Get the fuck closer so your kicker can kick it. He was too conservative and it hurt us. I was screaming at the tv for us to get closer. It was a god awful end game we called.
...  
Josh in the City : 7/30/2013 3:14 pm : link
@ConorTOrr
Randle just grabbed a jump ball about 30 yards out between Prince and Webster. #nyg
.  
arcarsenal : 7/30/2013 3:15 pm : link
I said as clear as day when this entire argument started that both units needed to be better.

My point isn't that the defense was good and the offense sucked. My point is that neither played up to par last year and yet, all we ever hear about is how bad the defense was.

If I say they were better than league average in points allowed, people say "doesn't matter, they could never get off the field on 3rd downs".. but if I say that the offense couldn't put together scoring drives (or drives at all) in key spots of other games, people say "well, they were statistically good and sometimes the defense needs to win the games".
Beautiful catch by randel  
Jon from PA : 7/30/2013 3:16 pm : link
Falling down with between two cb's
They both underperformed  
AnotherGiantsFan : 7/30/2013 3:17 pm : link
But if the offense was as bad as the defense last year it would not have been pretty.

This battle between Randle and Prince has been great so far. Each of them getting the best of each other.
Yeah...  
AnotherGiantsFan : 7/30/2013 3:19 pm : link
Conor Orr ‏@ConorTOrr 1m

Tough day for Pugh so far. False start and getting beat up a little by Moore. Of course, Thursday is the real test. #nyg
Anish,  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/30/2013 3:19 pm : link
I agree with you.

But people seem convinced that this defense is what held the team back when it's both sides of the ball that failed to do what needed to be done last year.

Some games the defense played great. Some they played badly Some games they played well enough to win and the offense didn't back them up.

All this team needed was 1-2 more wins to make the postseason.

You can pick and choose whichever loss games you want but the easiest picks were Philly 1 and Washington 2.

We had an offensive and coaching clusterfuck on the 10 yard line in philly, and a crucial defensive victory the offense turned into a quick 3-and-out that resulted in a kneel down loss to washington. Yeah, Nicks was out for at least one of those games, but that's not why we lost.




Getting giddy reading these tweets about Randle.  
Dave in Hoboken : 7/30/2013 3:20 pm : link
.
.  
arcarsenal : 7/30/2013 3:21 pm : link
Our franchise player is our QB. The offense SHOULD shoulder more responsibility than the defense does.

There is no Eli Manning on defense. JPP was close in 2011 but not last year.
Atta boy Marvin  
AnotherGiantsFan : 7/30/2013 3:22 pm : link
Ohm Youngmisuk ‏@NotoriousOHM 2m

Looks like Marvin Austin would've had a sack on Nassib. Defense with a strong practice thus far
TRAINING CAMP OFFICIALLY STARTED LADIES AND GENTS  
AnotherGiantsFan : 7/30/2013 3:23 pm : link
Conor Orr ‏@ConorTOrr 1m

Marvin Austin and Eric Herman with the first (almost) fight of training camp. Over and done with. #nyg



Half of BBI knew Herman was gonna get caught in scuffles haha
.  
arcarsenal : 7/30/2013 3:24 pm : link
OG Eric Hermann wears the cage of a fucking WARRIOR.
Alright, good to see some life in Marvin Austin.  
Dave in Hoboken : 7/30/2013 3:25 pm : link
The defense could certainly use a contribution from him this season.
Sorry guys, I'm not sphinx or Eric  
AnotherGiantsFan : 7/30/2013 3:26 pm : link
I'm not gonna post every tweet like a Cruz touchdown or whatever. Just whatever catches my eye.
Austin showing more life than in the first 2-3 years.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/30/2013 3:26 pm : link
.
I hope this isn't Diehl getting abused by a DT on the end  
AnotherGiantsFan : 7/30/2013 3:27 pm : link
Ohm Youngmisuk ‏@NotoriousOHM 3m

Cullen Jenkins getting quite a bit of work at DE today with Linval and Rogers inside. He just has a would-be sack on Eli
Jenkins is exactly what Diehl can't handle: speed and quickness.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/30/2013 3:29 pm : link
.
..  
Dave in Hoboken : 7/30/2013 3:30 pm : link
Quote:
Tom Rock ‏@TomRock_Newsday 39m
Josh Brown 5/5 on FGs.
Boz and Curry with good practices  
AnotherGiantsFan : 7/30/2013 3:30 pm : link
Art Stapleton ‏@art_stapleton 1m

Big practice for Kyle Bosworth, who busted through the line for practice-ending stop in backfield of Michael Cox #NYG

Ohm Youngmisuk ‏@NotoriousOHM 13m

Aaron Curry having a nice practice today with a couple stops and a pick
..  
Dave in Hoboken : 7/30/2013 3:31 pm : link
Quote:
Art Stapleton ‏@art_stapleton 4m
Phenomenal reaching grab by Victor Cruz from Eli in traffic in red zone drills, ducks away from a charging Antrel Rolle for the score #NYG
TTH,  
AnishPatel : 7/30/2013 3:31 pm : link
That's what I was talking to Eric about before. The whole mentality that don't worry Eli will save us. Relax! Eli has this. Down by 298319823? No worries, We have Eli. And when it doesn't happen it's a shock to some fans system.

Total Offense Rank

...NYG

2012...14
2011....08
2010....05

2009...08

2008....07
2007..16
.............[Gilbride]
............[Huffangel]
2006...14
2005...04
2004...23



This is since Eli was drafted. Since 2008, we have top 10 overall. Not sure what else people want. The offense and Eli has carried this team. 14th overall isn't a shitty ranking. It's slightly above average. It's the defenses turn to be consistently good.

Let them be good as the offense for a bunch of seasons.





Liking  
Toth029 : 7/30/2013 3:32 pm : link
The activity of Rogers, Jenkins, and Linval. Meaty front to stop guys like Morris.
Anish  
Toth029 : 7/30/2013 3:33 pm : link
To point out, wasn't the Giants defense one of the highest paid units in all of football last year? I get injuries and all that but they've underwhelmed for several years now.
Anish  
Toth029 : 7/30/2013 3:33 pm : link
To point out, wasn't the Giants defense one of the highest paid units in all of football last year? I get injuries and all that but they've underwhelmed for several years now.
That side of the ball  
AnishPatel : 7/30/2013 3:38 pm : link
has a lot to prove. Let them stay healthy and let's see how the players do with Fewell. It's Fewells contract year now. Hopefully, we can do well, and not extend him. That would be my personal hell, unless we win a SB again, and then extending him, will ease the pain by 10,000%.

I am liking how RR is doing. If he can translates this to the regular season then losing Nicks is fine by me. I can live with RR at X, and slide murphy or draft another at Z. RR is a player I am starting to get most excited to see when it counts!
Mucho respect for Bosworth  
Jon from PA : 7/30/2013 3:48 pm : link
Signing everyone's autographs
a couple of things  
robbieballs2003 : 7/30/2013 3:53 pm : link
I am not a Fewell fan overall. With that said, obviously there are examples where both the offense and defense played like shit. There are also examples where they both played well. I give the offense a little more of a pass because we had such a pathetic OL overall and Nicks' injury really killed the offense. I am also one that preaches injuries are not an excuse and I am basically pointing out that it is an excuse and I'll try to explain.

On offense you have players that can do certain things really well and you tailor your offense after that. That is how you design your plays. When you lose a player like Nicks you cannot adjust your whole offense so you keep your fingers crossed that a guy like Barden or Randle can come in and somewhat replicate what Nicks can do. We got that for one game out of Barden last year. Its not likely you are going to get that production out of a back up. It happened with us when we loser Plax too. It is what makes this offense great but it is also what makes it stagnant when a guy like Nicks goes down.

Now, we look at the defense. The defense isn't tailored to guys specific strengths. The defense is more important than any one individual. Our defense doesn't constantly put one of our players above another. Also, a defense player has it a little tougher than an offensive player with respect to a guy having to be good at everything. If you are a corner you could be going up against a Dez Bryant who is a physical receiver or you could be going up against a Victor Cruz who is more of a technician and quicker receiver. As a corner it is easy for an offense to find a weakness and exploit it. Oh, this corner is slow as shit? Lets put our fastest receiver on him and test him deep. Oh, this DE sucks at playing the run? Lets run power right at him. Defensive players need to be good at all aspects. They need to be able to match up against all types of players.

The best job a DC can do is foresee these matchup problems and have solutions before the games start. You have to think like an OC. It is imperative that you know the strengths and weakness of your defense and you have to have answers for those situation. That is where I think Fewell fails as a DC.

Disclosure as normal. I hope he proves me wrong. I hope he gets this defense turned around. I hope he gives me a big FU. I would live to be wrong.
Pete in VA  
SwirlingEddie : 7/30/2013 4:00 pm : link
Here's an excerpt of the top and bottom net play differentials for last year only:

Code:
DET +10.1 4-12
IND +8.6 11-5
NE +8.1 12-4
HOU +6.3 12-4
PHI +5.3 4-12
PIT +4.5 8-8

BUF -3.7 6-10
MIN -5.1 10-6
BAL -5.2 10-6
MIA -5.7 7-9
JAC -6.7 2-14
TEN -8.1 6-10


That's an average win differential of 1.7 games between the top six teams and the bottom six.

NYG was -3.0 net plays per game for the year.

Sorry, it's a link to an article on an Eagles site - ( New Window )
Big people  
Defenderdawg : 7/30/2013 4:03 pm : link
Tom Rock@TomRock_Newsday24s
TC on using Cullen Jenkins at DE & Rogers at DT: "Not just matching personnel but matching it with some large bodies, large people inside."
robbie  
JonC : 7/30/2013 4:03 pm : link
Good post, we agree on PF especially.
If we are going to use Jenkins outside  
robbieballs2003 : 7/30/2013 4:04 pm : link
that means there is a good chance we do keep 5 DTs. With the talent we have at DT I would hope we do.
Rock quoting Coughlin on Cruz  
Defenderdawg : 7/30/2013 4:04 pm : link
"I dont know what youre seeing, he said when asked about Cruz looking sharp after missing the entire offseason program. Hes knocking some rust off, he definitely is. Hes made some really nice plays and hes coming along and hes definitely going to get there, but I wouldnt tell you hes (sharp)."
Link - ( New Window )
More Coughlin  
Defenderdawg : 7/30/2013 4:06 pm : link
Tom Rock@TomRock_Newsday41s
Coughlin said he liked the enthusiasm of the first day of padded practice. Some good thuds. One flurry of punches btwn MAustin and EHerman.
Is this goal line?  
AnishPatel : 7/30/2013 4:15 pm : link
Quote:
TC on using Cullen Jenkins at DE & Rogers at DT: "Not just matching personnel but matching it with some large bodies, large people inside."


I can't see this working on a regular D/D. How will you get pressure?
robbie  
GMANinDC : 7/30/2013 4:15 pm : link
good post on the offense and defense..Like you said, injuries is not an excuse, but it can mitigate some of the play in which have seen. No push from the DT's minimizes the pass rush and we have not had that push in 2 years..I want start on my "we should have kept Cofield", so i'll move on..

I think this year, with the bodies we have in the middle of the line, Tuck/Kiwi/JPP should be able to get lots of pressure on the QB..That should give the defense secondary time to make plays on balls instead of chasing behind WR's..

Guys like Webster, Ross, Brown and Hosley should be able to get a few more interceptions and i really think the D is going to surprise many. If not, then Fewell will have to be gone because he would have no more mitigating circumstances..
Jenkins at DE with Rogers and Linval/Hankins playing DT  
AnotherGiantsFan : 7/30/2013 4:18 pm : link
MackTruck Package?
Anish  
robbieballs2003 : 7/30/2013 4:19 pm : link
Jenkins is very quick for a big body. I know he can rush from inside and rushing from the outside is totally different but I wouldn't rule it out before they try it.

I do believe it is not going to be a consistent thing. I think it would be used in only certain situations.
From today  
Defenderdawg : 7/30/2013 4:19 pm : link
GiantsWFAN@giantswfan52m
jenkins playing a lot of DE today

Ohm Youngmisuk@NotoriousOHM54m
Cullen Jenkins getting quite a bit of work at DE today with Linval and Rogers inside. He just has a would-be sack on Eli
.  
arcarsenal : 7/30/2013 4:19 pm : link
Jenkins can generate pressure off the edge. He's quick.
I am skeptical  
AnishPatel : 7/30/2013 4:22 pm : link
with that much size on front also getting a pass rush. I would need to see this on different occasions. For example if our offense wasn't going against our defense. I would scheme Ace-Double Tight against this front. I want to see if we blitz off it or not. We barely ever blitz and when we do it rarely gets home. So is this rush 4 drop the rest?

I don't know, I want to see how this works. On face value, it sounds odd.
I wonder if we'll see a separate defensive approach against Washington  
Go Terps : 7/30/2013 4:24 pm : link
and perhaps Philly. Maybe that helps explain the emphasis on big bodies on the DL.

The Redskins ran for less than 100 yards only once last year, in a loss at Pittsburgh. What did they do that no one else did?

With Osi gone  
eclipz928 : 7/30/2013 4:30 pm : link
JPP dealing with some health issues, and Tuck coming off of a horrific performance last season, it seems wise for the Giants to explore as many options at DE as possible.
I don't think they blitzed enough  
GMANinDC : 7/30/2013 4:36 pm : link
because of the lack of speed of the LB'ers and the bad play of the secondary..Ross or Role used to be the best DB blitzers they had. Rolle had to stay in for coverage and Ross was gone. The loss of Thomas and nagging injuries to Hosley kept everyone at home so blitzing wold have been very hard to do..

If the Dline does it's job, blitzes will be effective and wouldn't have to be used so much..
I'm glad to hear we are blitzing a fair amount in these practices  
robbieballs2003 : 7/30/2013 4:39 pm : link
I'm not saying blitzing is going to fix our problems from last year but when we did blitz last year they were so basic and it looked like we never practiced them. It was basically pointless to blitz. Blitzing isn't as easy as saying this linebacker is going through this hole. It takes a lot of time and preparation.
robbie  
GMANinDC : 7/30/2013 4:40 pm : link
having slow ass LB'ers doesn't help..If Rolle can go back to natureal safety, they will have faster DB's to blitz..
I'm not saying anything about our linebackers  
robbieballs2003 : 7/30/2013 4:44 pm : link
I'm just talking about the design of the blitzes. They are very easy to see and very easy to pick up and adjust to for an offense meaning they are pointless because you know have one less guy in coverage. You are leaving your defense in a vulnerable position. The whole idea is to have an advantage. This also goes back to my point of that we don't disguise anything. Our players are almost always were they are going to be when the ball is snapped meaning less thinking for the offense.
robbie  
GMANinDC : 7/30/2013 4:47 pm : link
i think most blitzes aren't disguised anymore..you can disguise a LB blitz but you can't a DB because he has to be somewhere on the line. Most disguised bliztes i have seen over the years have been by the LB and we they just don't have the speed to utilize it..
From Will Beatty  
Josh in the City : 7/30/2013 4:49 pm : link
@willbeatty65
A dream is a goal with a deadline pic.twitter.com/1jmOclyS5N
I would assume that huge DL/DE lineup  
mfsd : 7/30/2013 4:51 pm : link
is a potential anti-Redskins/Alfred Morris strategy...we literally couldn't stop him in our 2nd Skins game last year
I think we keep 5 DTs robbie  
Optimus-NY : 7/30/2013 4:57 pm : link
Quote:
If we are going to use Jenkins outside
robbieballs2003 : 4:04 pm
that means there is a good chance we do keep 5 DTs. With the talent we have at DT I would hope we do
Optimus  
robbieballs2003 : 7/30/2013 4:59 pm : link
It sucked losing Canty and I wish him the best but this could be our best combination of DTs in some time.
I am excited  
AnishPatel : 7/30/2013 5:06 pm : link
to see the LinJo and JH combo. I think with our DTs we have made a big time statement to stop the run. I do like that depth we have as of now.
Eric, I didn't have enough material....  
Crispino : 7/30/2013 5:19 pm : link
for a camp report. I wasn't prepared with a roster and writing materials. More to the point though, you can't see a damned thing. I brought binoculars, but you can really only see when they do unit drills on the near field. Wish I could be more helpful.
I think the reason why theres a double standard with the D vs O  
Neverend : 7/30/2013 5:39 pm : link
Is what the offense has accomplished in recent years. They came off a great year in 2011 as far as passing the ball goes, they were a top 5 offense in 2010. In the 6-2 start in 2012, the giants were the #2 offense in the league thru 8 weeks and had the most plays of 40+yds in the league thru 8 weeks as well (Also t-2nd for least amount of punts even without having a bye week yet)

so when the offense struggles, and has somewhat legitimate justifications for it, its easy for most to give them a pass. Without the typical and very significant production at the 'X', bradshaw playing on bad feet, the coaching staff being stubborn with david Wilson, diehls insertion in the lineup, rumors of Elis alleged shoulder/arm injury, its kind of easier to feel better about the offense long term when you look at the whole perspective as far as their ceiling goes, you know what you're going to get more often than not. For what they've done in the past when healthy and the issues they were dealt with last year, would it kill for the defense to hold a 4th qtr lead in any of those games?

Theres been injuries on defense too but the stigma attached with perry fewell makes the defense far more easy to knock and blame than the offense, even if irrational and nonsensical. The incessant bailing by the corners all year, the 3 deep cvgs, sometimes rushing 4 too much (w4 phi, w15 atl particularly), vanilla/poor blitzing, the Jason witten highlight reel, bah. Theres the case for injuries with perry, Webster sucked but prince had a pretty good year (conversely in 2011 Webster was great and ross struggled mightily), tuck still hurt, jpp with the back. I just don't know what it is, but its just much easier to give the offense a pass for what was 2012 than the defense. Its probably very illogical and silly, but cant help it. I know the offense struggled in the red zone in the game vs Washington but cant help but feel their dominance controlling the ball in the first half is the reason why the skins were held to one of their season lows.

Personally ill always be narrow minded on the issue, I look at 2012 as a matter of health with the offense and contrariwise a defensive debacle. the reality is its probably a 50/50 thing tho
i'm very excited about curry  
GiantsFan84 : 7/30/2013 5:48 pm : link
this is a couple times already I've read that he's looked good out there.
"A dream is a goal with a deadline"  
Pete in VA : 7/30/2013 5:57 pm : link
Makes no sense. Am I wrong? Maybe Beatty meant to say that "a goal is a dream with a deadline", which makes at least marginally more sense . . . I think.
Austin looking good  
djm : 7/30/2013 6:36 pm : link
it's still early but there are signs that Austin just needed a full off season of health and conditioning to finally shine in the NFL. The guy was as raw and unconditioned as one could possibly be last season. No surprise he was bad.

The D struggled last year and at times was horrible but I don't think it's far away at all from a reversal. A lot went wrong last year on defense. What if a lot goes right this season? Even if some of the IFs turn out in our favor, we will be a much better defensive unit. This is a new season. It aint 2012 anymore. We've seen crazier things unfold.
Giant D  
Fish : 7/30/2013 7:04 pm : link
struggled a lot last year but Giants brass has preached needing push up the middle. We never got that. With the beefed up DL, look for a better push up the middle. Which in turn makes everything work better.
Not buying the offense excuses  
Mason : 7/30/2013 7:28 pm : link
When you score most of your points in the 4th quarter and in 2 min drills there is an issue that should be addressed as well. It is a direct correlation to the defensive issues of wearing down late in games vs the Giants offenses coming to 'life'. Defenses tire and offenses begin to move the ball. But if you fail to control the clock early how in the world are you helping your defense late?

Eric said we're a big play type of offense vs grind it out. Well just because our offense is producing that type of game doesn't mean it is a consistent winning formula. If you aren't worry about controlling the clock in games (running the ball, constantly moving the chains) you will continue to be in this position of worrying if the defense has enough gas in the tank for stops in the 2nd half of games.

Both Dallas games, the Eagles game, the Tampa Bay game where the Bucs scored early off the Giants offense while the Giants D was pitching a near shut out against the Bucs offense and the Steelers game. Are just some of the games that sticks out to me. Where the defense is doing their job only to watch 3 and outs from the offense even after getting the ball back into the opponents territory after pretty good ST play. A lot of wasted opportunities early in games. Trading TDs for FGs.

That's why it is foolish to pick one unit as a specific issue when trying to find a solution. There is enough culpability to go around.
Back to the Corner