Why do people think Herzlich can be a starting NFL MLB?

And because we are fans.

There's a difference b/w hope and believing something. I consistently hear people say that they THINK he will win the job outright. Granted, the Giants don't have much talent at MLB position right now but it sounds like people have higher expectations than just blindly hoping.

..

but he has not demonstrated in any way shape or form, THUS FAR, that he can play MLB in this league. I hope he proves us wrong but from what I've seen of him in reviewing game film, he is slow to react, tentative, and does not shed blocks well. To be quite honest, the young man looks like he's playing with a pair of lead boots on.

what pencap said.

Some fans think too much of the college star when attempting to project him to the type of player he'll be in the NFL.

His play in the NFL has been erratic. In some stretches he shows a terrific nose for the football, solid play recognition and anticipation, uses his hands well to defeat blockers, explodes to the flats to track ballcarriers, and will explode through them when tackling, and looks natural playing in pursuit from the backside. He plays with confidence and looks like he did his film homework.

More often, he looks lost, is slow off snap and slow to read, disengage from blockers, gets lost in the pursuit wash, etc. Surely, some of it is a lack of confidence (didn't prepare well enough, the offensive front is kicking his/our arses, etc) and a lack of foot speed.

My expectations have lowered on expecting more than a solid player, given his suspect combine testing, lack of being drafted, and unable to unseat some ordinary veteran LBs ahead of him in the NFL.

..hopefully he`s stronger and faster

it's because he's white, huh? Admit it.

and they are so much smarter than you it makes my head spin.

of the writers watching him. He wants it really bad. This is not a guy who should be underestimated. That being said I kind of share your viewpoint on him. The sad shape of the Giants linebackers is hopefully not the only reason he has this oppurtunity.

I want him to succeed more because of his story than anything else. I have no problem admitting that.

but if he has the playbook down pat, and do a better job of keeping blockers off of him, he could surprise. I hope he enjoys success, because he has 2 awesome english bulldogs lol.

Bingo. It's a story we'd love to see have a happy ending. Like you, I sure as hell hope it happens. Am I confident about that? Afraid not.

I have more faith in the staff to make these decisions than fans. They seem to think he can do it. He has had very limited opportunities on the field, and was overcoming a significant illness and then subsequent injuries.

I also recognize that there aren't going to be stars at every position. The Giants place a premium on DL & secondary. the LB's merely have to do their job. I don't expect him to be outstanding or a star, but I absolutely think he can be serviceable. it's his position to lose right now, it seems, and it is time for him to prove all of the doubters wrong if he can.

1) He is entering the 3rd year in the defensive system and it seems like he knows it in and out which should help him with speed.

Anyone ever notice how crappy our defense played in 2011 when we had someone who was not familiar calling the defense as the Middle LB. We brought back Chase because he knew the defense in and out and put them in the correct position to defend the offense.

2)His Rookie season, he was a year removed from cancer, so he was not in the correct shape to be the badass linebacker that warranted a first round draft choice. After 2 years of a pro lifting system, I think he should have the muscle back that he needs to be at least a descent MLB in the NFL. (It certainly seems like he has been working his ass off to get in the best shape he can be in)

there is anything more annoying than trying to have a football discussion with football fans who understand football than when some of them say "b/c I believe in the staff." Obviously we all believe in a staff that has 2 Super Bowl rings but the point of the discussion is to hear what YOUR opinion is based on what YOU see...not to reiterate what we all hear the coaches tell the media.

...developed into a legit starter, if not a star, with the # of game reps that Herzlich has had already(?).

but the Giants don't have many options. I still see Connor beating him out as the starter before all is said and done.

As to reasons to hope I think the D-line can improve this year at the tackle positions and keep some blockers off the linebackers.

no offense, but what WE see amounts to probably .01% of what Herzlich actually does. So while it is trite, depending on the staff to make the decision and the evaluation is pretty damn correct.

I find it odd that somebody actually creates a post asking this question. You know how many border-line starters there are in the NFL on teams with mediocre to poor units?

Herzlich yet, one way or another

Just not likely a good one.

I don't agree with that. We have a kid here who is in his third year and has had limited opportunities to play in the NFL. I am a BC guy and love Herzy, but if I had to go by his sub-par play up to this point, I would say he couldn't be a starter in the NFL this season. However, from what we have heard this off-season from the staff and other players, there has been an improvement in confidence and skillset. The only way we can have faith that he can start is by trusting in the staff. Otherwise, the answer is no.

Sure, he has shown some flashes but overall he has been inconsistant and mediocre at best. But the fact he is only in his third year, has been without injury/illness for sometime and the fact that the staff and other players believe in him makes me believe he can be the starter.

That original statement was not meant to be condescending, I said it only because t's just the fact that they know better than us because they see him day in and day out, while we have seen limited, sporadic snaps in the NFL. If it were someone who has started consistantly in the past, like Chase, it would be a different statement. But the only way you can think herzy can be the starter is by trusting in the staff, at this point.

I have assumed that Connor will be our starting MIKE and still do.

There are only 2 reasons I can think of that Herz may start:

1. Connor is new to the system and needs the reps - yet, based on reports, Herz is getting most of the snaps.

2. Based on the timing of his cancer, surgery and rehab he would reasonably seem to be at his peak about now. I'm assuming he will never be 100% of wht he would have been, but is as good physically as he will be.

That said - I'll still be very surprised if its not Connor at MIKE.
Though, IMO, Herz has as good a chance as anyone to play WILL (Big LB in our system)
And, the staff may also think that Herz at MIKE and Connor at WILL (with Jacquain) is our best alignment

I would agree if he had never played in a live game and the only way to understand his abilities was to watch practice. But that's not the case. Most of us have watched him play quite a bit last season and some of us even watched him in college both pre and post health issues. There's enough there to formulate an educated opinion. And the point of the thread was to see if others had formulated a different opinion than my own (based on what they've seen) and why.

... why is everyone so quick write this guy off after two years in the league?

As a point of reference, do you know how many receptions Amani Toomer had after 2 seasons? Seventeen...and ended up as the Giants all-time leading receiver.

Everyone is so quick to rush to judgment...playing LB in the NFL isn't the easiest thing in the world and there's a learning curve.

It wasn't long ago that this kid was voted the best defensive player in the ACC. The NFL is the most sentimental place in the world and if the Giants coaches didn't think he could play he wouldn't be on the roster much less be penciled in as starter.

Lets watch this thing play out. It takes some guys a longer time to develop than others.

As many have said it is a great story, but I look at Coughlin's connection to BC as well as the comeback story aspect being the reason Herzlich even got a shot in the first place. Heart warming stories are great and all but I want freak athletes out there, he just doesn't appear to be that anymore.

Racer... Had a feeling Goff was on the cusp of becoming that thumper in the middle who showed legit signs of improvement but injuries obviously didn't allow that. Was pretty dissapointed when he went down.

....

definitely not writing him off and still have hope that he can be what many were so excited to see when we signed him as an UDFA. Maybe he needs more time to re-gain his strength and speed. It would be a huge boost if he could be that player for us but I just have my doubts based on what I've seen so far. As others have said, I do trust the coaches and if they think he's progressed and is currently our best option, let's see what he's got!

I agree, but hasn't Herzlich had as many game reps as Goff did (about 5 starts to end the season when AP got hurt and maybe a couple into the next season) when he got to that level?

That is the issue with comparing players. Looking at game reps and performance of 1 player does not help evaluate another player, because he could take longer to develop. Someone like Revis was able to come in and make an impact at CB immediately, while it took Corey Webster a couple years to become a very good CB. Players develop differently so it's tough to compare two guys based on the amount of snaps or gs they have had this early on in their career.

judged solely by their first couple of years, especially those coming off incredible circumstances, a whole lot of good players would be sent to the scrap heap.

If Chd Jones signed with the Giants and played like dogshit, you'd probably have people waiting for him to get better as he healed, and with good reason.

Yes in comparison of the two I believe it was Goff's 3rd year where he got a real shot at the end of the year and flashed signs. That would be equivalent to Herzlich doing the same this year.

I'm all about having the best players possible on the field at all times, if Herz happens to be that this year then sounds good to me, just a bit skeptical that is going to be the case. We shall see.

Different circumstances for different players. When players flash talent but simply need more experience then that's one thing. When a player simply doesn't look strong or fast enough that's another.

In the case of Herzlich, if the lack of strength and speed can be attributed to his comeback from Ewing's Sarcoma then I agree it's too early to make any judgments. But I have no idea if it takes more than 4 years to be fully healthy from that. I think this training camp and preseason will tell us a lot about whether he will continue to improve or if he's peaked and the talent simply isn't there. I'm hoping for the former.

..that the light really went on for Goff at about the phase Herzlich's going into now.

I thought Goff really made it clear that he was getting it when once a game (it seemed to me) he anticipated the flow of a running play and shot through his gap to make a tackle for a loss.

Sorry can't resist. We will soon see what another off season of study working out and maturity will yield. I hope for the best

I don't see it with Herzlich, either. I think he's a ST guy and nothing more.

Obviously I want to be wrong.

where Herz rushes and fills the wrong hole, or is late getting to it.

Great story but still need work to become and average NFL LB as he still struggle to be just perfunctory.

but prior to this season, he wasn't even an effective backup.

And it's not like they're looking for Dick Butkus?

.

in looking at players who came back from chemo and a leg injury.

What we've seen might be his ceiling or it might not even scratch the surface of what he's capable of. That's why debating it seems like an exercise in futility to me.

I understand its a great story and all that, but medically it takes years to get back to normal human strength, nonetheless NFL player strength. The guy has the size, 6'4", 250lbs, and the smarts to play MLB in this league and from his wikipedia page, "In 2008 Herzlich was a First-team All-American and the ACC Defensive Player of the Year. He was also a finalist for the Butkus Award, and a quarterfinalist for the Lott Trophy." He was a very accomplished college player before he went down with his illness. He was on track to be a first round pick and those players are expected to start and star at their position. He's had to make all the normal adjustments to the NFL while simultaneously shaking off injury rust and totally rebuilding his body, strength, and athleticism. It was a risk and if it was going to work it might take years. But we know this guy has the drive and the intelligence for this, sounds based on the reports we've been hearing out of camp that his body might finally be returning to form. Personally, I'm rooting for him and believe IN MY HEAD that the job is his to lose unless Curry can step it up.

The staff knows more than you do PLUS I don't think you are very smart.

Nobody gives a shit what you think!

Of course coaches know more than we do. But it's training camp. Not every body in every NFL camp goes on to be a good football player. A lot of guys don't. Herzlich might be one of them or maybe he'll surprise a lot of people.

If we always just appealed to authority and didn't discuss or question anything because we always assumed that the coaches would make the right decisions, there would be no point in having this board because it would eliminate like 85% of the discussion.

well said.

I think that you are reactionary to "issues with the team" and sure, discussion can be had about anything, but you don't do it well.

Herzlich may flop out as you think. Or the team might be seeing how his 3rd year pans out for him because he's quite knowledgeable now regarding the system. And as time has passed he's become stronger physically following his dealing with cancer.

However, what you see on TV watching the games once, versus what the teams sees in the games (many times over in actual game film) plus what they see in practice and everywhere else, multiplied by their vast knowledge in things football making yours pale in comparison tends to make we sway in their direction.

Really? This is a reactionary thread?! We just started training camp and there have been few, if any, reports about Herzlich to date. This isn't reactionary to anything at the moment.

This was a good conversation about our potential starting MLB until you started chirping about nonsense as usual. If you want to contribute to a good conversation, then feel free to do so. If you want to continue to chirp then do it on a NFT. Thanks.

I don't disagree with that in most cases. However, i think in this case, unless you have been watching every training camp practice and concentrating on him, the only answer to the question "Why do you think Herzy can start" is trust in the staff. If we go based on his limited, immature play, then you can't believe that. However, based on the talk from the staff and other players it sounds like he has made an improvement in both confidence and skillset which has led me to believe he can start.

If you asked me why I believe Webster or Tuck could rebound this year or why Kiwi will succeed at DE, saying trust in the staff is a cop-out. But in this case, I don't think we have anything to go on rather than trust in the staff and what they are saying, unless you are going to answer "he's not" and that is not what i think at this time.