Giants' Rogers fighting for career in oversized tackle scrum Link
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Bryan Steelers Depot:
"Maurkice Pouncey – Pouncey wasn’t his normal self Saturday night and he didn’t seem to move as fluidly as he did last year off the ball. He wasn’t dominating at all on the run plays as Linval Joseph and Shaun Rogers gave him a few good battles and he couldn’t control or turn them. As far as pass blocking, he was skated back by Johnathan Hankins but that was his only pass blocking demerit." Link
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all Rogers has to do is stay healthy.
If Hankins weren't progressing so quickly, Rogers would have a clear path to the backup 1-technique job behind Joseph (plus a few snaps at NT, if Fewell actually uses that alignment in the regular season). As it is, Joseph will start and Hankins appears ready to spell him. That doesn't leave a lot of snaps for Rogers. Meanwhile, at 3-technique, Jenkins is the starter but he needs a backup and he appears slated for some duty at DE. That leaves the need for a penetrating DT behind him. Austin is competing for that job with Patterson, unless they think Hankins has the versatility to fill that spot too.
I guess it would be possible to go with Joseph, Jenkins, Hankins and Rogers. But then the only legit 3-technique (Jenkins) would be a 32-year-old who will also rotate at DE. I just don't see it. Joseph, Jenkins and Hankins are locks. I think Austin (most likely) or Patterson will stick as the backup to Jenkins and Rogers will make it if they keep five DTs. I'd love to have him, but he might be a luxury they can't afford.
I've thought the same thing. The numbers aren't good for Rogers. Although it is possible that the Giants view Linval as an option as the backup 3-tech.
It'll be Joseph, Jenkins, Rogers, Hankins and Austin with Kuhn on the PUP. Jenkins might play end in some 3-4 looks, but remember that some of the DEs will also play tackle on passing downs.
provided that there are enough contributors on special teams. The Giants have often kept an extra player if there is more talent at a certain position. Last year shortgage of DTs is still fresh in everyone's mind.
The 5th DT spot will probably go to Austin, but it could be Patterson or Okum if either is healthier and performing better at the end of preseason. I would like to see the Giants activate four DTs if possible to keep the players fresher in the second half. I think this is going to be an advantage all year for the D line.
at the expense of an extra DE? I haven't thought this through yet but given that they envision Jenkins playing DE in a 3-4 and it seems like they are going to make more use of the 3-4 against option teams it might make more sense.
I think they're going to keep 5 DT's and 5 DE's. I don't know how they'll make it work but I think that's what's going to happen.
DE: JPP, Tuck, Kiwanuka, Moore, Tracy
DT: Joseph, Jenkins, Hankins, Rogers, Austin/Patterson
would make many teams. I wonder if there are teams low on the draft wire list that are desperate for DTs that we could get a low draft pick from?
I that's correct, with Austin over Patterson. When/if Kuhn is eligible to come off PUP, then they probably let Rogers go.
Nighthawks last season.
He's a journeyman spare part. Nobody's giving up a pick for him.
I haven't seen any indication whatsoever that Patterson is a "lock".
he's #7 if they count Kuhn ahead of him, which is likely.
think the only way they keep 10 DL is either to go unusually light at another position (five WRs instead of six for example), or if they believe at least one of the DEs (Tracy) actually counts as a LB. If that happens, then 10 DL is a pretty strong indictment by our own coaching staff of what they don't have at LB.
I'm not sure anyone would give up a draft pick for any of our veteran DTs, but someone would probably pick them up. I wouldn't be surprised to see us pick up a veteran LB after final cuts, although we are pretty far down the waiver wire list if the player has to pass through waivers.
no sense burning a pick when they can spend money to sign him.
I think we're going to be light at LB, perhaps 7 + Zak.
I don't think they'll keep more than 5 WR. So the spot could be made up there.
Nicks, Cruz, Randle, Murphy Jr., Jernigan or Barden
Jernigan and Barden won't both make it.
especially with the Giants WR talent. LB are garbage so why keep 6 or 7 garbage players when you only play 2 LB at times? You keep extra DB's in a passing league . Giants have more talent at DB's and DL then LB so you keep the extra player at those positions. Doesn't this make a bit of sense?
I'd keep five WRs but suspect they'll six.
Not really, no.
You don't just keep 6 WR for the sake of keeping 6 WR. You'd be wasting a roster spot that way. There's no reason to carry both Jernigan and Barden again. They're giving Jernigan every shot to take a roster spot by grabbing the return job and he's still not standing out and I don't think Barden has made any sort of strong case as of yet, either. I suspect one of the 2 will be kept.. probably Jernigan.. but not both.
That was to the post above yours, Jon..
I just don't see them keeping both guys. Maybe one of the other guys will stand out and grab a spot. But I just don't even see a 5th guy who is a lock right now let alone a 6th.
The 46-man active roster won't have more than 4. (And maybe not more than 3.) The 7 inactive spots go first to currently-injured players, then based on potential for future development or need for another in-case-of-injury backup.
Long-in-the-tooth DTs on 1-year contracts like Rogers and Patterson don't really fit the bill.
It's not like one of them is a promising sleeper or anything. Both of them have been around for a while without accomplishing much.
Also keep in mind that McBride has really impressed so far at CB.
This year the Giants will keep 10 DLinemen and only 6 linebackers, I also think they may keep 10 DB's, but I also think they may only keep 5 WR's, and 3 RB's, also it's possible they keep only 9 Olinemen, when I look at the players, that is what I came up with, Hyno will start on the DL and come in after week 6 or whenever they can activate him, the Giants will also save a roster spot by keep 3 TE's and no FB's, as the can stash Donnell on the practice squad and use Pascoe as the third TE and FB both. By the time week 6 or whenever eligible is here then it will work itself out if Hyno is ready with injury and performance.
I suppose you could pretend the TE Myers is a part time WR but remember the injury issue with Nicks et al. We go 3 WR and might not have the personnel. Remember a few years back them cheating on the saftey position and got burned. We live by the pass and die by it. No sense taking chances carrying 5.
I don't know. If someone gets hurt and we get too thin, I would think there'd be a guy out there we could grab who would be at least as good as the guys we're carrying at the bottom of the DC right now. Are Barden or Jernigan really irreplaceable if we don't keep one of them?
available if there is an injury.
QB's (3) - Manning, Carr, Nassib
RB's (3) - Wilson, Brown, Cox
FB (1) - Pascoe
WR's (5) - Nicks, Cruz, Randle, Murphy, Jernigan
TE's (2) - Myers, Robinson
OL (9) - Beatty, Diehl, Brewer, Pugh, Snee, Boothe, Mosley, Baas, Cordle
DL (10) - Pierre-Paul, Tuck, Kiwanuka, Tracy, Moore, Joseph, Jenkins, Hankins, Rogers, Austin
LB (6) - Connor, Williams, Herzlich, Rivers, Paysinger, Curry
DB (9)- Webster, Amukamara, Hosley, Ross, McBride, Rolle, Brown, Mundy, Taylor
K,S,P (3) - Weatherford, DeOssie, Brown
Total = (51)
Temp DL (1) Hynoski
Thought's - These are the 51 certainties in my opinion, that leaves 2 more spots. I will list the bubble guys here and my thought's.
Torain - If they think they need to keep 4 running backs, he will be the fourth.
Barden - If they want to keep 6 WR's, he would be the sixth.
Capers - If they want to keep 10 Olinemen, he would be the 10th.
Bosworth - If they want to keep 7 linebackers, he would be the 7th.
Thomas - If they believe he is healthy, he will make it for certain.
Hill - He is a good player, and if they think he can clean up his act, he will also be retained.
Sash - He also may be kept if they cut bait with both Thomas and Hill, and want to keep 10 DB's.
Prediction - I actually believe the Giants will keep Thomas and Hill, why, because they are good football players, it all depends on Thomas' health of coarse, and how well he plays, I think if he stays healthy, he will also play well, I guess I am cheering so hard that I am going to also prdict it. If it plays out that way, then they have plenty of bodies to wait for Hill and cut Sash, if they give up on either, I think Sash will make it. The Giants and all of football use the DB's so much now, and not the linebackers as much in the 4-3 defense, that keeping more then 6 linebackers makes no sense, especially when they are not very good anyway.
Bubble - Torain
Could be correct, and keeping 5 WR's is risky for a game, but there are no quality players that would get scooped up anyway, so why keep them, use the practice squad and waivers if you need to add depth later. just my opinion, you keep good players, not bodies just for depth, all these players i kept are good players, not just bodies.
I think this could be a redshirt year for Taylor and I still think they want to (and should) keep Hill. If the only question is his off field stuff, it seems to me he's said the right things and has learned his lesson. If you took away the failed drug test I have to believe he'd have been a lock.
That was really sweet the way you explained the Rogers situation. As to the 6th WR it would be good to have 6 with the way WR's have been going down all over the NFL. Not a good year to have to pick someone off the scrap pile. Don't know if the Giants think that way, but to me it is a consideration.
but it seems very very clear at least to me that 6 WR will be carried. Lets see if this turns out to be a clear cut transparent as I believe. I mean historically they never ever carry 5. Todays game is pass heavy wide open. We have injury issues at WR. And we will carry only 5 ?? Cut our previous high round draft stiffs? I don't expect that
For quite a few years now, we've actually been debating which 6 would even make it because we've had like 7 guys who we thought could conceivably have been good enough to be rostered. It's not quite that way this year.
If they cut Ramses Barden and someone gets hurt, do you honestly think they'd have a hard time finding someone as good as he is? I don't. You keep 6 WR's if you feel you truly have 6 guys worth keeping or guys you're still trying to develop.. and that has been the case these past few years. I don't see it this year. Do Jernigan or Barden really protect us at all if Nicks or Cruz get hurt?
as far as injuries. Isn't the midget Jernigan our slot guy if Cruz goes down? Hell They all go down. By mid season Nicks could be know as China Doll. I don't care if they scan the other rosters for casst off WR but do it now not later out of desperation. ^ WR in my view are as mandetory as having 2 eyes and 2 hands for a WR. Being of the herd mentality, do any teams carry 5?
The midget and the china doll.. nice insight.
Hill hasn't done much this training camp from reports I seen. He has been allowed to participate in drills and the preseason. Hill is starting to get old for the potential tag. This will be the 3rd year remove from the 2011 draft for him. He is a hard hitter but I haven't seen much more other than wow, he hit that guy hard in those two games to suggest he is head shoulders above the other young safeties.
Hill has played a whopping 12 NFL games. I don't think it's too late to talk about his potential at all.
Like I said before, if it weren't for the drug stuff, he'd be a virtual lock to make the roster, IMO. He should still make it.
While at Florida he was moved down on Meyer's depth chart since he arrived on campus. Never lived up to his 5 star recruitment label in the SEC. Great physical talent but doesn't translate on the field. When people talk about his potential they refer to his HS days.
Also, his suspension would have no impact on whether he makes the roster or not. His suspension only starts when the season begins. He has been allowed to participate in all activities this camp.
I didn't say his suspension was the reason he wouldn't make the team in and of itself, I said it could impact his chances because the coaches may have felt that was strike 3 since he was brought in under the premise that he had a very, very short leash.
We wouldn't even be having this discussion if the coaches had no concerns about him off the field. He'd make the team no question.
but it sounds like Sash and Mundy have outperformed in this training camp. Suspensions or not. They drafted Taylor as well. Brown was named a starter. Sash and Mundy are all ahead of him on the depth chart. Other than the suspension talk, I haven't heard any raving positive news about him this summer like Sash and Mundy. I think the coaches are pleasantly surprised about Sash and Mundy.
Mundy was probably safe from the get.. I definitely think he's got a spot. Sash is the surprise. I didn't think he had any chance whatsoever but he made some plays against PIT and is standing out a little more this summer. We'll see what happens.. if he keeps it up, Hill could indeed be out of luck.. but I think the coaches do like him a bit.
but his off field issues and past Thug life could ace him out
shame because he can be a red chip player if he wants to be
Given his age and recent injury history, the Giants are not going to jettison a young, talented DT in order to keep Rogers.
Assuming no injuries to others, and him not winning a starting job, Rogers has no chance.
They kept him through the rehab of the blood clot and the off season which says alot. If the future is now then he is in the running
History is a barometer of the future. We carry 6 WR
(Especially if Fewell is thinking about 3-4 looks [against particular teams & situations]). I don't know if anybody else besides Rogers has played the Nose (zero technique). In that look, you'll see Rogers, JPP/Kiwanuka & Jenkins on the line.
In the base 4-3 (JPP still being the best in any alignment), I see Linval & Jenkins at DT, with Hankins & Austin helping during the entire game. At DE (just because of the numbers), I see them carrying active four - JPP, Kiwanuka, [starters] with Tuck & Moore backing them up.
The surprise man (on the practice squad) will be Ojomo.
And both guys play positions that are not only critical but currently manned by players somewhat known as injury prone--Nicks and Thomas and now rolle is hurt.
Is he surprised if either sash or Jernigan are cut. Both former Draft picks that have played well this summer.
I think one of Rodgers and Patterson are definitely toast. Barden is probably history too with Jernigan getting the nod since he's one year younger on a seasonal level.
Think about the WRs on this team. Murph, nicks and randle can all play outside and even Cruz can too if needed. Barden is a marginal talent and he's just not gonna play here unless the entire wr group vanishes. Jernigan is making this team because he's the 2nd slot guy and he's only been here for 2 years prior to this one. And he had a shortened rookie offseason due to the labor stoppage.
I see No way barden making this team over Jernigan.
Joseph, Jenkins, hank, Austin and one of Patterson or Rodgers. The wild card is Kuhn and there's talk that he's close to playing? Regular season Pup list?
I wanna see what WR, Tally, does on specials.
I think the position we rob Peter to pay Paul from is RB and maybe WR. Carry 3 Rbs...you can find a serviceable rb in week 6 if needed. What's the point in keeping a guy like torain? Guys like that are a dime a dozen. Serviceable DTs, DEs and DBs are tough to find. I'd err on the side of defense. If I had to choose 2 between sash, Patterson, barden or torrain I'd keep the former.
DE it was Rodgers who came in and Joseph who slid over. Practice is important but Austin will get some more play and is IMO playing for his career at least with the Giants. If he gets snaps at the 3 tech in the next two games w the ones he's shown enough.
Regardless of all that the Giants could keep 6 LBs since Kiwi could play LB in a pinch and the Giants play big nickel over 50 % of the time. Keepi9ng more than 6 actually makes little sense.
The Giants stayed with him through the blood clot and readily signed him to take another shot this year.
This team is results-oriented this season. They have to make the playoffs this season or they will have missed the playoffs four of the last five seasons. The team's number one need for improvement is for it to be able to stop the run, especially the run between tackles that gains the opponent five or seven yards on first down. The Giants clearly think that Rogers has a good chance of being the guy to clog the middle. Otherwise they wouldn't have wasted so much effort on a 34 year old overweight long ago former Pro Bowler.
He can win a roster spot if he shows in the preseason that he can still do what the Giants need him to do.