Coughlin's loyalty to Fewell and to Deihl

with idiotic threads like these is that they make a lot of assumptions that aren't easily proven.

It first assumes that the people requested to be fired/cut are incompetant, which with some of the ass-backward football acumen exhibited daily on this site, makes it a longshot that a proper evaluation has happened.

Secondly, it assumes that TC has loyalty to people instead of feeling they are a decent fit for the job. It also assumes that TC is loyal in the face of information that would undermine the team.

Thirdly, it assumes that some random poster (and actually one named Geeman who is usually a moron of pretty decent proportions), has some knowledge that places his awareness above that of lifelong football people.

Fourthly, it assumes that a DC who has a Super Bowl win, either lucked into that win or somehow lost a lot of skill in the interim

Fifthly, it assumes that Diehl and Fewell being incompetant is an established fact and failure to act on this information is the issue.

I'll go with an easier assumption. Geeman has as much football sense as the shit I just took, and keep in mind, I had corn yesterday...

LOL

but I thought the defense looked MUCH better last night than the prior week. Remember, no Rolle, JPP, or Webster.

Their first TD was a total fluke, should have been a TO. Second TD was a combo of a great throw, great catch, and Hosley just being all turned around.

I saw blitzes actually hitting home and getting to the QB, run defense was much better yesteday. Only beef was distance that the corners were playing off, but that's an easy fix.

Defense was not the problem.

.

of garbage appeals to authority to rationalize Diehl's horrendous play. Shoot me in the fucking face right now. Actually under stand your ground law I think Diehl was legally within his rights to do that to Erik Walden last night.

burned and buried...or at least figure some way to disguise it...

I'm trying to eat my lunch here.

Suppose Coughlin woke up this morning and said "My God, Perry Fewell's not getting it done. I love the guy, but I need a new defensive coordinator." What's his next move? Fire Fewell and replace him with... who? It's 3 weeks before the season starts; very late to find a quality replacement, and too late to put in a whole new defense. So you promote someone from within to pretty much fun Fewell's defense. What does that accomplish?

as a fucking trap play/inside run.

I didn't see much of any last night defensively. And that was WITHOUT Rolle and Webster who are 2 key cogs in the secondary.

The plays their starters made on us, we had a guy in position pretty much each time.. the Wayne TD never should have happened.. that should have been an INT but Ross couldn't hold on. Hosley was also in position twice but just wasn't able to make a play. All Fewell can do is put the players in those positions.. the rest is up to them.

But as is usually the case.. facts will never get in the way of a good Fewell bashing.

FatMan.

Though you aren't adhering to the spirit of letting the idiots run free.

there are no excuses for their play. Webster was "in position" a lot of times last year too. Didn't stop him from getting burned. I just want to see some DB's on this team make a play once in a while for once.

We are routinely top 5 under his watch in forcing turnovers. In today's NFL, you won't see the dominating defenses like the '86 Giants or the '85 Bears. Winning the turnover battle carries much more weight now than it has before, and even then winning that battle was paramount in getting wins. I think Fewell gets too cute sometimes with personnel and occasionally outsmarts himself, and that our failures on defense is more of a reflection of lack of personnel and execution.

Because there were DB's making plays.

Stupid.

another year in the SAME DEFENSE with the SAME COORDINATOR where nobody knows where to line up.

This defensive coach has got to go.

He should be thanking Perry Fewell for making his career relevant

loyalty is to the Giants. And, I am sure if there becomes a better option at any position on the field he will make that change. As for Fewell, of course there are things we do not like about the defense. I am sure that watching any team week in and week out would make you feel the same way. The biggest thing for the Giants would be someone to take charge defensively. Like I am sure Strahan did when he was here. That is what we are missing.

should be making this defense relevant first.

Quote:

The Giants’ defense ranked 31st in the 32-team NFL last season.

Oh.. so defenses are ranked SOLELY on yards allowed now? Not points allowed? Not turnovers forced? Not sacks? Just yards.. and nothing more? Cool story.

before I put my opinions out there.
Your waiting for another 9-7 season to go by the boards before you formulate an opinion???
I guess it's a whole lot easier to stick your head in the sand...smfh
Who said Coughlin was incompetent or stupid?
News flash brainpower....everyone makes errors....and with him sticking with these 2 IMO is an error. Let's not pretend he hasn't made mistakes no matter how good his overall track record has been.

but the way some of you act like he's completely infallible is a joke. I'm glad Reese doesn't just get down on his knee and blow him like some of you do. I think part of Reese's "everybody is on notice" snippet was aimed at the coaching staff, because it seems like Reese would have liked for some of the younger guys to get more snaps last season.

Most of these panty wastes will be in the classroom during the day trying to learn their ABC's, decipher the difference between your and you're, and getting their lunch money horked. They won't be polluting BBI with the thoughts of mental defectives.

Patience people. Patience.

for shit to happen before putting my opinions out there, or else I'd just be sticking my dick in the wind and pissing.

Maybe this is a "back in my day" rant, but back in my day, I was taught to take significant information and evaluate it before making any comments that might demean people in authority.

It was easy to do that with you - you are consistently a poor poster with some horrendous logic (which is probably attributed to the rush to throw your opinion out there) as if the world desperately needs it.

It is a lot more difficult to do that when evaluating my favorite team and advocating that people be fired or released. I'd think that to make that claim, I should at least have some sort of greater knowledge than just sitting on my couch and yelling like a fucking pansy.

I don't claim to have some magical mind. What I do claim is to be able to pretty reliably tell when others have shit-for-brains. Nobody likes being told they have shit-for-brains. And yet, it just emboldens them to be stronger in their idiocy. You sound emboldened to me...

Quote:

This line is also my favorite.. arcarsenal : 3:44 pm Quote: The Giants’ defense ranked 31st in the 32-team NFL last season. Oh.. so defenses are ranked SOLELY on yards allowed now? Not points allowed? Not turnovers forced? Not sacks? Just yards.. and nothing more? Cool story.

is retarded. I'm not saying I agree with the notion in the original post but that quote is full of stupid. No, it's obviously not the only barometer but it sure as shit is a big one. And 31st in yards allowed is a blatant indication that things need to be fixed.

you're forgetting that all the kids have laptops in the classroom now

Surely, you jest. This is but a small sample of the brilliance awaiting us this season.

the team that scores more than the other wins 100% of the time, it's not clear that fact is obvious to some of you like it should.

What benefit would it have to TC? He's a guy who's carved himself a HoF worthy career as a professional coach, and somehow has managed to stay loyal to a fault during the whole run?

Or is he just getting soft in his older years?

Could also be that he hasn't made any decisions regarding Diehl yet, and that he's seen enough of the defense to know that maybe it's more on the roster than on the scheme at this point (hence the defensive flushing that came about after last season)?

several people take what he say's as the gospel and have no opinion of there own other then what they are told.
Obviously nothing can be done about Fewell right now. He's the Giants Dc for better or worse for the 2013 season.
I wanted him gone at the end of last season, stats aside, did anyone just by watching the 2012 Giants defense have confidence that it was a playoff caliber defense?
forget the points, TO and yardgae ranking...the defense had real issues and major inconsistencies to go along with constant miscommunication which is all on the DC. That's just how it is. There was definitely talent to be better but that keeps bringing us back to INCONSISTENCY and MISCOMMUNICATION. That is the responsibility of the DC.
I sincerely hope it gets turned around this season, but I'm not overly optomistic about that.

is keeping the spot warm for Pugh, and is there for veteran depth/versatility/jumbo packages. He's obviously not the same player he was five years ago and it's obviously not ideal that he is in the starting lineup as he is a liability.

I'm not a fan of Fewell's defensive schemes - I think he's too conservative, too predictable, too inflexible/slow to adapt, tries to be too cute at times instead of leveraging the strengths of his players and is responsible for the confusion in alignment and miscommuniations that led to easy allowed touchdowns last year.

If I'm also 4th in takeaways and 12th in points.

Our offense scored 17 or less in 6 losses last year. Yet there are 500 threads complaining about our defense for every one there is on the other side of the ball

Since Fewell came here (2010) we are 3rd in takeaways, 2nd in sacks, and in the top half in points allowed (though just barely at 16th, not helped by some of our own offenses turnover issues either). We've been an average defense with a penchant for making big splash plays. You can win a lot of games with that type of defense, especially when our offense is playing to its potential.

Fuck David Diehl though

So just to confirm your previous post, you're saying that you believe last year's defensive performance is acceptable?!

earned it. Coughlin has an obligation to each and every player and coach in that complex, to their careers, health and families.

He has an obligation to his employers to preserve and increase the value of the family's most valuable asset.

If you think he doesn't take those obligations seriously, you haven't been paying attention to Coughlin the man, at all.

If you think he would compromise those responsibilities out of stubbornness, I think you way, way off base.

More likely, he realizes that Diehl worked hard in the offseason, and that rewarding Diehl's combination of experience, leadership and dedication has value to the team and the organization.

Giving Diehl first crack at a starting spot early on in preseason (and it is early on, despite the rending of garments by the washer women that apparently populate BBI) was the right thing to do.

Personally, I think Diehl looks horrible, and I hope changes are made. But I would have unquestionably penciled in Diehl as the starter because it was the right thing to do, which is where we are right now.

However, some of us realize that they know a shit ton more than we do, and have a ton of more information than we do.

Same analogy holds with any profession that you aren't an expert in like, say, doctors.

The defense was solid last night. The run defense looked good. The pass defense was solid and pressure was brought at appropriate times. Wayne's TD was simply bad luck for NYG and a great play by Wayne. FLUKE.

Learn football. Players need to execute. They get paid millions. You cannot blame Fewel for missed tackles, arm tackles and lack of hustle.

Learn football

Most notably, the 2nd Skins game

for building a cohesive locker room, and not simply having a team that acts as mercenaries. Doesn't mean it always leads to the right outcomes, but you can't simply go about dropping players willy nilly.

It's not some Pop Warner league. It's the NFL...

are you waiting for Coughlin to give you an opinion?
you sound like you struggle to formulate an opinion on your own. You don't have enough info on Deihl and Fewell over the last few years to formulate an opinion?....smh
Don't come at me because your comfortable with putting your head in the sand.
Your trying to judge me but you need to worry about learning how to think for yourself.

it's not fantasy football....

We've won two Super Bowls in the past six years and your whining about another 9 - 7 season. Those are some pretty high standards bro

If you are looking for reasons the Giants didn't make the playoffs last year, look more at the higher paid, more highly invested offense which was the single most inconsistent unit in the NFL bar none. 6 games scoring 36 or more, 6 games scoring 17 or less. Im not sure any other team in the history of football has ever done that. The defense played well enough for this team to win this division last year.

a coherent statement that doesn't sound like it's written by an ESL fourth grader?

True.

I'm waiting for the thread where someone bitches about how many fantasy points Diehl gave up...

the offense scored 17 points or less is due to mistakes and inefficiences on their end for sure, but also due in part to very long drives allowed by the defense that was especially bad at stopping 3rd down conversions and therefore keeping Eli and company cold on the sidelines; this is part of fewell's cover 2/bend but don't break philosophy. Even in some of the games the Giants won, the defense was piss poor against average or below average offenses (Cleveland and Tampa Bay are good examples of that).

I'm not looking for reasons why the Giants didn't make the playoffs. I understand the reasons why. I was asking for you to confirm your previous quote saying you think last year's defense was acceptable based on being 31st in yards allowed but 12th in points allowed and 5th in turnovers. That, to me, is mind boggling.

Pugh missed a ton of practice time. It's even worse when you factor in the CBA cutting practice time in half to begin with. Is it really that hard to fathom that he just isn't ready to start? No, Diehl and Coughlin being secret BFFs sounds more reasonable

there weren't too many options behind Diehl. Brewer was not ready yet, and we know McCants is still not close too. Once Locklear went down for the season, we were literally stuck with the unfortunate hand we were dealt, we had no choice but to play the cards we have. I'm holding out a slight bit of hope that Coughlin and KG deem Pugh, Brewer, and Mosley as viable options to actually play.

People keep saying things like this and it's simply not true.

2013 is the first year in awhile where there's more cap space spent on offense than defense (only one team in 2011 and 2012 in the NFL had a higher percentage of their cap spent on defense than the Giants did) and the Giants over the last five years have spent more picks on defense than offense -- both in quantity and rounds 1-3.

Guy was solid on the right side.

he was a beast

And the Giants are 4th in turnovers in the NFL since 2010. How do you think that has effected Fewell's defense production during his tenure here? Not positively.

No need to rationalize the offenses inconsistency away. They were a joke at times last year

this is a message board. Fans want to discuss their team. Both you and Fatman exude this feeling that no opinion that goes against the grain (TC/KG) is valid at all, since no poster here has NFL experience. I get the loyalty thing, but it's kind of been the same story the past few seasons. How long of a rope does one get to properly hang themselves? IMO that answer is "it depends". It depends on what viable depth there is on the depth chart, and what options are available on the scrap heap. My guess is the past few seasons there weren't really any options available.

I sure was.

Maybe a third SB win in less than 10 years?

Or should I just say fuck everyone because I'm pissed off we lost a preseason game or missed the playoffs?

Maybe I'm waiting for some evidence of loyalty instead of just assuming it.

Hell, the answer is actually more simple than that. I'm just waiting for some moron to start a thread that has little substance and reads like a bitchfest from a whiny cunt and give the thread the comeuppance it deserves.

This isn't about my knowledge, it is about your blatant lack of it.

But hey, you had an opinion and got to write it. How's that working out for you?

however why settle, when the talent is there for more?
This could've been a dynasty era IMO. 9-7 is not a bad season, however underachivement for a team with higher expectations then most isn't good by our standards. That's why I love Reese, he absolutley keeps it real and doesn't hold back. He knows this team can do better every season and he runs it that way.

that's sort of BS. I think there are valid times to criticize, but the people who are either equipped to do that with the appropriate knowledge and/or the ability to formulate a coherent argument is rare.

We are obviously not a perfect football team, but way too many arguments on BBI are either made in a vacuum, done with horrendous logic, or simply are shit ideas that aren't even valid.

It actually makes the valid arguments hard to find.

And yes, I do give some rope to TC since he's gotten us 2 SB's. I think that is worth a little rope. Reese and TC aren't above criticism, but they should be above the petty comments directed at them, the players and the staff and instead, we should have a better discussion on the points worth making. Blame fuckwads like Geeman for making that exercise a lot more difficult to locate and undertake.

Quite frankly if that's what you get, it's wrong.

Perhaps we would like intelligent discussions on the subject? Don't find too many of those around here, especially after games. And this is a pre-season game.

There are legitimate criticisms about this team. I even mentioned one in my post, about loyalty not always leading to the correct outcomes.

I'm just assuming you glossed over that part? Or the posts in the past where I've criticized some of the teams decisions regarding the kicking game?

but do you guys think most GM's think there's more talent than the record indicates?

Are being mean. Somebody get a mod on this situation immediately.

Imagine if these guys laughed at Pam Oliver getting smacked in her chops by a football! Immediate ban.

agree with you to an extent here. 2 titles does extend the rope quite a bit. But if this team was able to win 2 titles over the past 6 years, the fact that we missed the playoffs in 3 of those yrs and and were ousted in the first round of the other just shows how badly we've underachieved. Granted, I know we've finished 8-8 or better in each of those seasons, but you know where you have to finish to make the playoffs and the ultimate fact is we failed in half of them.

There's nobody here with a professional background at the NFL level so you can climb down off your soap box. This is a site for opinions, I get it, your more of a follower then a thinker so I'll keep that in mind in the future the next time you go on one of your rants.

...

It's no secret that Diehl is in the afternoon of his career but who would you start in his place? Pugh, who also got beat for a sack last night; Brewer who isn't 100% healthy. Who?

Fewell is a bright coach but I can't help but believe his scheme is too complicated and takes away from a defender's aggression.

but I don't know owe you enough to read through every single one of your posts with a fine toothed meticulous comb that you seem to pride yourself on around here. Look, I agree with both you and Fatman that posts should be articulated better, especially for topics that routinely get beaten to death, but I also do think Geeman's concerns are valid. Instead of jumping at the chance to ride him and close any chance of discussion, how about encouraging him to articulate some points better?

enough with the sarcasm.

There are very few backup OT's in the NFL who would do a worse job than Diehl has done the past two seasons. I have little doubt in my mind that Brewer or Pugh could do a better job. If not, then Pugh didn't deserve to be a 1st round pick. And that's not saying I expect him to be a stud. Just not to suck so bad that he's exposed on every other offensive snap.

No?

I'm not getting involved in your bickering match with Geeman. Just enough with the sarcastic posts that nobody wants to read and provides no actual information or opinion to the conversation. Thanks.

the interesting thing about the turnover numbers is that they seem to happen in a number of concentrated games, as opposed to a consistent week to week thing. i.e. turnovers don't rain they pour.

multiple turnovers in the road Dallas game, San Francisco, Carolina and final game of the season....but then there were also droughts where there were no turnovers, no third down stops, and could not get the offense off the field. i don't know enough to say whether it's inconsistent effort in practices/film studies of the tendencies of offenses, bad matchups, but it's a bit baffling that the gmen can go into san francisco and just a maul a very good offense one week and then make brandon weeden look like joe montana the next.

just looked over-matched far too often last year. Hope the guy can turn it around however its certainly not ridiculous to be concerned about his pass blocking ability going into this season.

He has been a great Giant and has won 2 Superbowls with us. I'll always be appreciative of the time hes put in here and the successes hes had. Again I just hope he can regain his old form.

due to the fact it shows field position switch, TOP favoring the other team, limited amount of chances for offenses...

Listen last year, offense sucked at times, defense sucked at times, specials sucked at times, eli sucked at itmes, Coughlin sucked at times,.... so basically it was a team effort why we didnt make the playoffs.

I see no reason why posters should want to be ranked better than 31st in yards allowed. More 3 and outs, more chances for Eli. I think we can all agree that will gives us more wins, and a chance to make noise in the playoffs.

DD has sucked more than just last year. He's been pretty awful for over two years now.

I never said you owe me anything. But you sure seem to like to be able to tell me what I'm exuding with a very low hurdle of evidence. But, simply put, when someone's wrong, I'm going to tell them.

I'm just providing the evidence. You can take it or leave it.

And what points will he articulate better? Look at the first post on the thread. Inflammatory remarks aside, it addresses a lot that someone should probably take into consideration. And he blindly ignores the advice.

Why continue to try when someone digs their heels in with their position?

.

Don't care? Don't read them...

feel like I'm back in 5th grade.

I need a bit of leeway for sarcasm?

That inequality will be reversed when Clemson crushes Cuse...

So that when Lovie Smith returns next year he can take over the defense.

he was the Jacksonville DB coach from 1998-2002. He's part of the Jacksonville job for life crew. He's not going anywhere.

We shall see.

the fact that the defense needs to play better isn't in question. The problem with only using the yards allowed number is that it does not give a fair indication of the defense real performance last year.

Think of it in terms of Eli and that year he had all those interceptions. Who was more right about the level of his play that year, the individuals who focused on the number 25 or those who dug deeper into the numbers and causes?

now we're coming after me? My threads are fantastic and provide either information about the giants or provide my own formulated opinion based on facts. You may not agree with some of them, but that's fine with me. All I'm saying here is making obnoxious comments to the OP like...

Quote:

Holy shit. You're labeling yourself a thinker? kickerpa16 : 4:26 pm ...

simply adds nothing to this board and makes you seem like a jackass. If you don't care, then so be it and I'll just continue to pray for an ignore button in the future.

is based on the belief that Tom Coughlin would put loyalty over success

Any one who has ever coached at any level is not likely to do that, but to suggest that someone at the level of Tom Coughlin with his resume would do so, is ridiculous

Quote:

kickerpa16 Josh in the City : 4:41 pm now we're coming after me? My threads are fantastic and provide either information about the giants or provide my own formulated opinion based on facts.

And there isnt even a close 2nd.

we have played down the strecth of alot of our seasons then the actual record.

to show why this is silly.

In the NFL, loyalty, though with its faults, builds a cohesive and unified locker room. Players knowing that they won't be at the whims of fans can build potential discounts during later contracts, which is very important for continuity and in the salary cap era.

Likewise, fucking around with a staff constantly can lead to negative results. Constant tinkering can lead to problems. I have my own issues with PF, but who do we expect can come in to lead this group to a significantly better outcome? Certainly no one in these next few weeks.

You also have to take into account that bringing someone in who would be undoubtedly better would lead to growing pains, which could ruin a 16 game season. Remember Spags? We were getting lit up constantly.

Remember our most recent SB? How well did some pretty prolific offenses do against us?

Arguing, for the sake of argument, that getting rid of PF would be the better thing, I doubt that we would have seen a significantly better outcome last night. And most of this discontent is generated from a poor performance. A performance that's probably not predicated on all of our calls and formations being installed or used.

There are issues, but proclaiming that loyalty is a weakness ignores the importance of loyalty in a professional locker room.

to prove he's a great coach. I guess Barry Switzer was a great coach. Ray Handley was on the Giants staff for two Superbowls.

Yup Fewell and DD should have lifetime exemptions from any critique or questions about their ability to keep their jobs.

I agree. The last time DD really performed at a consistent level game in and game out was 2008.

now a post like that I could totally respect and I agree with almost everything you wrote. I also have no issue with Coughlin's loyalty...up to a point. Would I have preferred Fewell fired after the last 2 seasons? Yea, probably. Would I prefer Diehl get benched? 100% definitely. But there's a difference b/w being loyal and then being loyal to a fault. I would accept the argument that keeping Fewell is the former. But there's no doubt that leaving Diehl in the starting lineup is the latter.

you clearly stated that you'd like to see some intelligent discussion on the subject matter...oh RLY? What evidence is there at all in this thread that you did your part to help foster any decent discussion. You demanding that I go back and re-read your post, because I didn't interpret it correctly tells me that you actually do think I owe you some respect to hang onto every post on here like gold. We're not married to our words here, and I don't read every single post on every single thread, because I don't really give a shit. The way some of you people go around demanding that there's a higher burden of proof tells me that some of you take yourselves waaaay too seriously here. I chimed in on this thread to discuss fooball, concerns about the team, possible options, etc. I don't post wondering how I'm going to pander to the intellectual crowd like you do.

Again, don't care. And no, that's not the way I view your threads; your history has proven otherwise.

But, notice, I don't pollute your threads because I've learned that, in some cases, it would require too much sarcasm...

but I don't think he's the worst guy for the job. I think a lot of the blame can be put on the players being unable to execute in conjunction with PF's schemes. I hate the large cushions and the constant miscommunications of last season. That being said, let's wait and see what we have this year when the real games start.

As far as Diehl, this is a tough one for me. Diehl is one of my favorite Giants because he never bitches, has always worked his ass off and was a solid player for us. It's clear, however, that he's nothing more than a turnstyle out there and he can't compete with the speedy, athletic pass rushers of today's NFL. I really don't know what the Giants can do to address it though. Pugh isn't ready most likely, and it doesn't seem that the coaching staff has much confidence in Brewer either. It's an unfortunate situation.

much earlier, instead of giving Fatman a virtual handy, and pounced on Geeman this thread would have turned out much nicer thread.

It's not my problem if you read into things that aren't there. I'm not going to haggle over your reading comprehension.

Just stop responding to me. I wouldn't care if you did.

and David in LA the same person? Serious question.

Apologize for the tone of the last post. Too harsh. The past shouldn't define us for all time. I've certainly done my part of stupid shit.

As to Diehl, if he proved himself willing to try over the off-season, I see no problem to place him at starter. And he certainly did that.

Pugh's concussion certainly may have helped him, as well as Brewer's lack of progress.

the same person? Serious question.

Yea, sounds just as fucking retarded coming from me as it does from you.

I don't even want to know why that's what entered your mind...

that last one was meant towards B in ALB for randomly calling me out in this thread, not you.

is predicated on things remaining static.

Dallas is desperate for O-Line help, and can't get it. So are plenty of other teams. We picked up someone from the scrap heap last year who ended up helping us before blowing out his knee, and he eventually got in over Diehl (though, due to injuries...).

I'm not quite so sure there's anyone better out there, and Pugh may not be ready.

And throwing someone into the fire can have adverse consequences as well.

I think that is assumption #6, or have I lost count?

my reading comprehension is fine. Just because I don't necessarily agree with you doesn't mean it sucks. Had a bit of a busy morning, so I wasn't paying attention to every single post on this thread. Again, I don't owe you shit just like you don't owe me shit. This is a fucking sports msg board, you need to not take yourself so seriously around here.

it sounded nicer than saying you were virtually fellating him.

Simple question I asked that your paranoid and defensive mind cannot possibly process.

Fucking romper room ham n egg nonsense on BBI today.

QBs being cut after a ball gets thrown to the sideline during warmups.

Ross getting cut after a fluke TD.

Diehl and Fewell employed solely out of loyalty from TC.

Fucking bizarro world today.

I don't take myself seriously.

Again, you read into shit that's not there. Bravo, but that's not my cup of tea. It's not about being wrong, it's about invention.

It seems like I aggravate you, so just don't respond to me. I'm not going to weep over that outcome. Please?

There is no LOYALTY on the playing field. If there were loyalty Please explain Ahmad Bradshaw's leaving?
I think geeman considers his view the correct one even though he has no "REAL" information. AS he grows more adamant, I start to understand the saying"
"Like assholes, everyone has an opinion. Some just stink more than others."
I recognize Geeeman has a right to his opinion even though he disguises it as fact. But I also realize that his opinion is like an asshole really stinks.

High on assumption, low on fact and review of TC's history of loyalty vs replacement shows that while Geeman really has every right to defend his opinion history contradicts his statement Reese's and TC's actions show otherwise but c'mon man use some deoderent!!

Quote:

Are Josh in the City B in ALB : 4:51 pm and David in LA the same person? Serious question.

is calling me out. Alluding to the fact that I'm posing as another poster b/c I have the same opinion as him isn't me being paranoid. It's me getting annoyed at your foolish opinion that you felt warranted being posted.

Not simply from coaches, game film, and trial by fire. But by working with long-standing vets who have played the game, know the nuances and the tricks, and can help fill them in on what's a huge gulf between the college game and the NFL.

Cutting vets, even if we think they are done, can have adverse outcomes on rookie learning. Cutting Diehl so that we don't have an experienced RT does what, at this point? Do we expect Brewer to impart his wisdom on Pugh?

Or, more to the point, does having a vet on the team, even if he's starting, deliver some pointed instructions to the younger players benefit us in the long-run?

At some point, you have to let the vets go.

But vets can provide some useful service, even if they are getting long in the tooth (or have already arrived there).

You always hear about the benefits of Sam Madison and Deon Grant. Yet we want to cut Diehl, when he can help mentor Pugh.

for those of you bashing Geeman poster and his opinion...

a) is David Diehl a good player?

and

b) is Perry Fewell a good Defensive Coordinator?

Yes or no.

2006 28 total def turnovers, 32sacks, 22.6 ppt/gm
2007 25 total def turnovers, 53 sacks, 21.9 ppt/gm
2008 22 total def turnovers, 42 sacks, 21.9 ppt/gm
2009 24 total def turnovers, 32 sacks, 18.4 ppt/gm
2010 39 total def turnovers, 46 sacks, 21.7 ppt/gm
2011 31 total def turnovers, 48 sacks, 25 ppt/gm
2012 35 total def turnovers, 33 sacks, 21.5 ppt/gm

Pleased with the turnovers in the last few years. Points pretty much the same.

I am most frustrated about lack of ability to get of field on 3rd down, defense not being able to get off field (which hurts our offense's chance of scoring points) and last year we led the league and giving up the most big plays. However, in 2011, we gave up the least big plays.

Do you think it was that easy for him to cut O'Hara, Bradshaw and Richie Seubert? Those decisions were made because they had to be made. If he was overly loyal, those guys lasted a bit longer.

It was a question. I had a question mark there and everything.

And....I'm done with this thread too.

This might be a newsflash for you, but sometimes I respond to shit I don't like and disagree with. I don't think any less or more of you, you're just a handle that doesn't affect my life one way or another.

people who need the benefit of 20/20 hindsight b4 having any original thoughts, look at our offense last year with Locklear at RT, and look at our offense when Diehl replaced him.

I respect that fact that you're trying to get to a specific point here but it's not so black and white. It's not about whether these are good players/coordinators or not. Read kickerpa's posts right above yours. Very fair pts there (even if they could have been made much earlier in the thread).

2009 was 26.7, as soon as i saw the 18 after posting i knew that shit was wrong, remember Tim Lewis?!

thought that question was worth posting just points to the fact that your posts usually suck. We're glad you're done. Bye.

Fewell is not perfect. Frankly, I don't even like him. But he called a good game last night. SO much better than the first pre season game plan. But guys didn't execute.

Fewell needs to stay on this course.

He also needs to realize that on 3rd and short and you are bringing it with your front 7 you can't have your CBs in "off" coverage.

Sometimes you gotta trust your guys and risk a big play in order to be a shut down Defense.

how about you come at me for something that I may have articulated incorrectly. If you go back and read my posts, my take isn't on the extreme side of the fence that Fewell sucks, and I've said Coughlin was hamstrung by not having options available.

B in Alb, how in the world am I lumped in with Josh? What opinions have we both shared on this topic? I'm usually really patient with our players and curb my expectations and lets things play out. My stance on Diehl is a byproduct of 3 years of him being a liability in pass protection. Advanced stats seem to match what my eyes have been telling me. I've said my deal on Fewell as well, his system has large tradeoffs. Turnovers for yards being the biggest . I think the personnel wasn't as good as advertised last season, and we couldn't execute the things we wanted to do on the field because of that.

Again with the reading comprehension.

I said "seems like". That's not a declarative statement.

Why do you think I'd care that you're laughing at me? That's a rather peculiar stance to take, unless you think that people are more than nameless handles on here...

appreciate you throwing me under the bus there. Cool.

I don't think that really had anything to do with TC, at that point, it's already out of his hands.

know about football, Josh. Many know my background here and would 100% agree with that statement.

Just stop it.

David - you're a good poster here and my question wasn't meant to offend either of you. So my apologies to you. The other guy can kick rocks.

I think of the pre-season or its importance, but what I will weigh in on is Fats..

Yes he's a friend and I value who he is..Thus, I find much of what he writes to be hysterical and quite cogent.. You may disagree. You may not even like what he posts or what you perceive he stands for.

But this is what I know: The man works and has much contact with trainers all over the country. He has dealings with Professional trainers and team staffs. He hears things. He knows things. He is far more aware of what goes on within a training and team facility than most if not all of us..

As I said, feel free to disagree with his opinions. But don't be foolish enough to believe you are more aware of the inner machinations of what goes on with injuries, preparations and the like. With that, you'd be clearly out of your league, imv..

Ones a belief, one's an attempt to infer from available evidence.

I was just pointing out that are some nuances in our opinion where we differ. Not fair to me or you to be lumped in together :-)

and have forgotten more football than everyone in the free world

your "football knowledge" gives you a pass to be a complete jackass then you're only fooling yourself.

fair enough.

page to display the idiocy of BBI? Great fucking job!

Only problem is that I wasn't trying to offend anyone. You took it that way however.

if you actually made more declarative statements, instead of hiding behind being a pussy and feigning as if what you said wasn't a jab. I'll give you a declarative statement. Piss off. If you're going to say something, go hard or you can continue to be a passive aggressive little bitch.

The 2009 defense only gave up 18 pts per game? And were 13th in yards allowed?

Remarkable. No way could the games against Oakland, tampa bay, and Kansas city skew the stats that much.

but the defense did play some good games against Arizona and san diego. but wow

I was like no way

Oh boy. Now I'm real hurt.

Can't imagine how those words would sting if they actually meant something...

Man. I'd love to feel macho and talk about someone being a pussy behind a computer screen. Talk about the testosterone build-up! But, alas, my estrogen levels prevent it.

Any jabs you want to throw my way, now that I'm against the ropes with such a witty riposte aimed at my very soul?

For someone who claims that everyone is just a name on the screen, you sure do have your finger on my pulse.

because you have no ammo and I called you out for being a pussy. You throw your cute little jabs and then claim that they weren't intended as jabs. That's textbook form for being a passive aggressive little bitch, like I just said.

That I think a defense should be graded beyond ONE measure? Ok, sure.

I think ranking defenses on yards allowed alone is much stupider. But to each their own.

When a guy like Ralph or posters here continually call the Giants the "31st ranked defense" without providing context, they're claiming that there were 30 defenses in the NFL that were bar-none better than the Giants were. If you believe that.. well, you don't watch much else of this league because that simply isn't true.

Everyone raves about how great the 49ers defense is.. yet in their 3 playoff games last year, they gave up 30ppg.

People don't understand that shut down defense doesn't exist in todays NFL the way it had in years past.

The Giants gave up an identical amount of points per game as the Super Bowl Champion Ravens did in 2012. Yet everyone thinks the Giants defense was one of the worst in the NFL and thinks the Ravens were one of the best.

There are some side effects(such as Diehl), but overall it does more good than bad. You are loyal to those that give you all they got.

is killing it today.

-The Doctor

my coffee filter is more worthy of my anger and insults than whatever thoughts you can type out. C'est la vie?

And I'm sorry, but saying you seem aggravated is now a jab?

Alright. Guess I've got to read up on how little it takes to insults people now. I get it, you think I'm a pussy, or something, based on extensive research. Trust me, I'll not lose any sleep over that belief.

But keep on bringing the gold. I'll now know what to use as ammo. Such wit shouldn't be wasted.

with me.

Once was on a shitty diamond deal, or so you said. I could care less, but it's funny.

than you'll ever know, yes I am talking to you

that Diehl is starting because Coughlin is so loyal:

1) They drafted an OT in the first round.

2) He got a concussion.

3) This is preseason.

4) As much as Diehl has slipped, he is probably a better backup for multiple positions than most other OL they have available.

Do any of you see a potential link between those four points that does not require excess loyalty from Coughlin toward Diehl?

And as far as the defense is concerned:

1) The LB's were awful last year.

2) The DT's were awful last year.

3) Webster was awful last year.

4) Tuck was awful last year, and their second best DE in recent history played hurt for just about the entire season.

Is that all on Fewell? Really?

Headhunter has more football knowledge in his little pinkie than:

a) He has in his big pinkie.

b) He has in the rest of his body.

c) Dave Diehl

d) Perry Fewell

e) Geeman has in his brain.

I think some are missing the point here. The issue is not should Fewell and Diehl stay or should the Giants get rid of them. The issue is not whether either are or will be doing a good job. And, the issue is not whether Coughlin (and Reese) can or cannot make mistakes. The point of the thread is that it is Coughlin's loyalty to them (and presumably Reese's) that is governing the decision making process. Last year the dumb thread supposition was that Coughlin's family loyalty to Snee was governing is status (no mention of Reese's family loyalty). I imagine of Diehl were cut tomorrow, then Snee would be front and center. I cannot imagine a successful veteran coach like Tom Coughlin making personnel decisions based purely on player loyalty. Simple.

Today's different, though and I'm actually in a great mood today. It's nice that you could care less. Just reaffirms that you should be charging me rent for occupying space in your head today. You took the first shot at me, now you're digging up our last run in from months back. Why? because you got nothing, and I exposed you for the little lap dog you enjoy being. Look, I like Fatman a lot as a poster, because I find him to be brutally honest and right to the point. Sometimes he gets a bit abusive to posters, but he's got fire in his belly, and he certainly knows his shit. I like that a lot. You should learn how to be more assertive from him and not parse words. If you're going to say something, come out and say it. Like a grown ass man.

I am in the process of forgetting, please don't interrupt, thank you in advance

How much of an advance should I expect?

I'l give you $10

right?

Heh, I really could care less what your viewpoint is on my manhood. I don't care if you think I'm a pussy or not a man. Perhaps you're one of those people who think those statements mean something online, but I find that kinda sad.

I'm done. Continue questioning what you want about me. I'll let someone else indulge you with a 51st and Park type invitation.

But bravo on the attempts to rile me up. 15 years ago they would have stung tremendously.

rein to say anything you want about me.

The sky is the limit David. But, seeing how saying someone seems "aggravated" is a jab, perhaps I'm putting too much faith in you.

is more like it! Old school!

This IS the kinder, gentler BBI. You have no idea how bad this would have gotten under the older, meaner version.

Absolutely!

Under the kinder, gentler BBI, I have to expose myself to getting beat over the rope.

Curl up in the fetal position during a merciless onslaught, and hope for the protection of the mods.

never sweat the ankle biters.

Never do; sage advice (as usual????).

is a spice.

Did that sound deep? I'm working on being deep and a man of mystery.

It's not going too well.

I'm probably not the one who should be guiding people on wise.

That's JerseyJoe's territory!

Though that's probably not a consolation prize.

and the Dline in general. His defense is designed to give up a lot of yards, but at the same time force a lot of turnovers. If the DTs can get a good push causing the ends to make plays, expect the secondary and the LBs to make a lot of plays on the ball.

I feel like the giants addressed the line situation this year and i expect big things from guys like marvin austin and cullen jenkins to force pressure up the middle. This is something we have seen consistently throughout the preseason that is encouraging. If the linebackers can be decent and if players stay healthy for the most part, this defense could be flat out scary.

As far as David Diehl goes, i don't have much to say about him besides his time as a starter is done. He needs to take the role of a veteran and help guys like Diehl, Pugh, brewer, and mosley develop.

FMiC to write op-eds for the New York Times for one year.

These guys are elite competitors.

Trying to drag them off the field and turn them into player-coaches (as reserve players) won't happen willingly. We see the players trying to come back into the game after serious injuries.

pretty scrumtralescant. The beatdowns he gets around here are even better.

which City. It ain't NYC, fer shur.

you honestly think it takes a lot out of my day to type up a sentence about how much of a passive aggressive little bitch you are? It takes all but 5 seconds to do so, not aggravated in the least. Have a nice day though. Maybe today you will grow a sack and say what you want to say in a more direct manner.

I don't want to stick around much longer here anymore. Enough of the name calling. This site is worse than everyone else warned me for it to be.

because everyone that looks at Fewell as someone who has to get a lot better gets lumped in with those who call for us to 'fire him' and that 'he's only around out of loyalty to him.'

The defense has to drastically improve over last year. I don't care what the turnover stats are, if you're 31st in yards allowed and the only team below you allowed the most yardage ever (and YES, we know it was Spags' defense), then you need to DRASTICALLY improve. There is no doubt about that. Players, coaches, the offense as it relates to time of possession-a lot of stuff needs to get better so that the defense can get better.

I am a Giant fan. We are all Giant fans. Nobody on here (well maybe some... It can be scary) wants the team to lose. I personally think Fewell is shitty overall, but he is certainly capable of commanding a top 20 defense that can get turnovers, and that might be all we need. I PRAY that I am wrong about him and that he can lead a dominant unit like he did during the playoff run, and that we have the players capable of pulling that off as well.

Just because you question the effectiveness of a coordinator doesn't mean you're a moron. I just hate when that opinion gets developed thanks to threads like this one. Automatically anyone who questions what they've seen for 4 years (and admit it-turnovers and all, it was a pretty fuckin awful defense last year for huge stretches) is a "Fire Fewell" mouth breather. That isn't true. Coaches can suck. It happens. I hope ours doesn't, I've seen evidence that he is fantastic and evidence that he is horrendous. I hope we put it together this year in every way on that side of the ball.

You're advice grows sager!

I don't like your attitude. You called me out.

thread. Glad my power was out for almost 4 hours.

...when he became available. Fewell is a lousy D-coordinator. Kiwi's comments regarding pre snap alignment and communication after the game speaks volumes.

In the best year of his tenure, 2010, we didn't hold one top 15 offense to under 20 points. So basically we were able to do bully the crappy offenses we faced. And we missed out on the playoffs because we shit the bed in historic fashion against the Eagles.

The D was historically bad (from a Giants' standpoint) in 2011. As in worse than the 2009 Sheridan D. As in worse than the Rod Rust 1992 D.

It was even worse in 2012.

The D had that magical 6 game awakening at the end of 2011 that NOBODY has been able to explain - or replicate.

I'd like to not be screwed when we're not getting turnovers.

Not giving up points is great - but when you're doing it by playing "bend but don't break" and not getting the opposing O off the field, you're shortening the game, which I don't think you should be doing in most cases when you have an O like ours.

So all that said, I'd love it if someone could explain to me how 2013 is going to be different. Hell, I'd settle for a top 20 D. You can't tell me that we don't have better D personnel than at least 12 other teams.

I don't think Pugh is ready just yet. But they need to give him a crash course and get him in there as soon as possible.

Why are yards allowed the only measure you're using to judge a defense?

Isn't the goal to keep teams out of the endzone?

Also.. how do we know that it was always the defense that couldn't get off the field instead of the offense not being able to sustain drives and stay ON it? Watch the 4th quarter of the Steeler game last year and you'll see exactly how the offense can be at fault for the lopsided TOP by doing nothing but moving backwards, failing to get one 1st down and punting 3 times.

Blaming our offense for our defensive woes.

Seriously ?

That's a fact. Whether you'd like to believe it or not.

a lot of shots down field. They can score very quickly but drives can also stall quickly when you miss on a couple of those shots. Any offense benefits from as many opportunities as possible. Maybe more the case for ours than many others simply by its nature imho.

.


Also, the defense was not great in any of the last couple of years, but judging it by yards allowed is an outdated way of looking at things.

This is an offensive league where the owners have made no secret of wanting to drive up scoring, make it hard to play defense, and make it easier to play Quarterback.

Everybody gives up lots of yards, and we play in a conference that has a large number of really good quarterbacks.

That's why the redzone bullshit has to be fixed.

It's easy to post about a player and coach needing to be replaced and you might even be able to defend it with points to back it up.

But it is impossible for a mere fan to defend a post that states that the reason any particular player or coach is still on the team is strictly because of a head coach's loyalty. That being absolutey true, this was indeed a silly post as some have already suggested.

Sorry Geeman, but you can't possibly know what is in TC's head regarding this issue. You should have also very easily realized that there are too many other possible reasons why Diehl and Fewell are still here. That would have at least prevented you from making such a strong statement that you know it is because of TC's loyalty.

I am not a fan of how the defense has performed over the last 2 years and I put a lot of that blame on PF. Having said that, the idea that cutting him and bringing in a new guy will instantly upgrade that side of the ball is not realistic.

The Giants have to decide if PF is close to getting this team on track and if he has that ability. And if that tact is better than bringing in someone else and perhaps starting from scratch.

as some have speculated, then the Kildrive and Fire Feweel threads will become moot next off season

.