Did he expect something else? He has a bruised heel. If you don't want pressure on it then he needs to be on crutches. Any foot injury is usually treated with a boot as a precautionary response. Rolle is the exception.
re: Diehl to Guard. They do, in fact, want to kill Eli. Don't be surprised to see Diehl get completely manhandled by a DT and end up on his ass the entire game.
would apparently throw himself in front of a bus to save Diehl. Diehl is not a guard. He's not anything at this point. He's been a warrior, and a great Giant, but it's done.
and cut David Diehl to save the fucking coaches from themselves. And to save the franchise quarterback from getting hurt
Reese needs to be held accountable too because many of us here on BBI were saying not to being back Diehl at any salary because the coaches will play him.
The Diehl situation has gotten really frustrating and I was probably one of his biggest supporters on the site. I don't think he's had anything to offer these last 2 years since the most recent SB run.
I like the Boothe and Pugh moves with Baas on the shelf, I just think Mosely deserves the 1st team reps. He's earned it. And unlike Diehl, he will hopefully be a big piece of the O-line moving forward.
Diehl is no longer deserving of starting position, probably not even a roster spot either.
is very dependant on active guards, being able to pull, trap, etc. David Diehl does not have that ability anymore. This makes almost less sense then him somehow playing right tackle.
TC's continued confidence in DD is really getting ridiculous. At this point I really doubt that Brewer or Mosley could beat out DD even were they to grade higher than him.
Given Mosley's Play of Late and Boothe's Past Success at Center
The key word is earn. He spent his rookie year on IR, and has a lot to prove/learn. He does seem to be a potential successor to Boothe at LG, and appears to have some Seubert in him. I just don't think there's time to get him ready for the opener. Reshuffling the line at this stage is hard enough without inserting another virtual rookie in addition to Pugh.
While Diehl might get whipped physically, I think that's less likely to get Eli killed than mental breakdowns by inexperienced linemen. This is a temporary patch to get through Baas's absence. The glass is half-full: Diehl is no longer on an island, and he's halfway to the bench.
you guys need to watch some other teams once in a while.
Brewer sucks. He's entering his third season, the team has tried him in several difference spots, and he has yet to crack the starting lineup or prove he is anything other than OL depth. Put Moseley and that McCants in the same category.
This is Mitch Petrus all over again. Everyone here was certain he should be a starter, he had all these attributes, and where is he now? Out of football.
SMH, and then you will have a full on fellatio of posters asking
about what unwavering loyalty. What gets me is that they bring up Bradshaw to try to prove that the coach is not loyal before the team. Yet, it was the GM that made the decision to cut AB and the others not Coughlin which the head coach noted when it happened.
No more complaining from me about DD because it is now on the GM to babysit his coach and be the bad guy. As Tuck said he wouldn't want Jerry Reese's job when referring to the cuts of AB, Boley and Canty.
He has not been good for a couple of years. Hopefully the surgery did the trick but being voted into a Pro-Bowl doesn't mean shit. In '07 I think we only had a couple of pro-bowlers while Dallas had like 10. A pro-bowl is not a good way to justify your point. Nobody wants to see Snee or DD fail (ok, maybe some do) but any criticism towards either of them is warranted until proven otherwise. The NFL stands for not for long and this league is all about what have you done for me lately. Don't confuse criticizing a player with not appreciating what a player has meant to this organization. Both players have meant a lot and nobody can take that away. That doesn't mean we should be lining up Lawrence Talyor and Phil Simms right now. Well, maybe LT is still better than our current LB.
Art Stapleton @art_stapleton 1m
Victor Cruz is using crutches with a walking boot to keep weight off his left heel. Swelling is the issue. Nothing more to it than that #nyg
I infer from Coughlin's decisions that he would much rather risk physical errors than mental ones. It may be because the former is more predictable and thus more manageable. Notice how often the RB was helping Diehl on Sunday. It's not about loyalty or any personal relationships.
What confuses me though is why the Giants apparently have much more difficulty than other teams assimilating new players into their scheme. It may just be a confirmation bias on my part, but it always jumps out at me when another team is starting a rookie or slides a young player into a role due to injury without an obvious hiccup.
Take it from one with expeience with bruised heels
The first day after is the worst, and significant recovery can happen quickly. What's much tougher is the last 5-10% of the recovery because staying off it is the best cure.
If Cruz is in a walking boot with crutches NEXT Monday then get concerned.
TC and the Giants had a plan......they didn't want to throw Pugh right into the fire. DD could possibly hold down RT for a few games as Pugh gets experience, spellling DD for some plays. Gradually take over the position.
Btw, those who are lobbying for Brewer. Have u seen this guy play? He's worse than DD. Much worse. He's young so there's hope but right now he's awful.
when he spent most of the time filling in at RG for Snee. Moseley have done a pretty good job at guard so why is he not rewarded. I am all for respect for our old warriors but you have to know when to let them go and fill in with the talent you have. DD have not been good for years now. Yet we just shift him around to keep him playing.
What they do when Baas comes back. My guess is DD back to RT and Pugh back to the bench but one can hope that is gets DD to the bench where he still has a tiny amount of value as a versatile depth player.
remember Locklear getting benched despite being healthy last year when Diehl was ready to go back to RT? I can definitely see, based on precedence with this staff, Baas returning, Boothe back to LG and Diehl back to RT... much to our collective chagrin.
History does not side with that which scares the shit out of me. When O'Hara had the monster fork sticking out of his back in 2010 Coughlin reinserted him into a line that was performing very well and destroyed the chemistry that had developed. Against the Vikings with DD, Boothe, Seubs, Snee, Kmac they ran the ball up and down the field for a total of 200+ yards. The next week in the Nightmare pt2 vs Philly with DD, Seubs, O'Hara, Snee, K Mac we couldn't run to save ourselves and it cost us the game. I fear the same thing when Baas returns.
This staff is not stupid. They drafted Pugh for a reason and there was no question they were expecting him to win the job. Most on here were saying they could not see it happen, but it was not hard to read between the lines and see this was only going to be a matter of time.
Hurricane...
BillKo : 1:21 pm
while inserting OHara was a mistake, that didn't cost us the Philly game. Bone head plays cost us that game.
If we could have run the rock at the end of the game with the monster lead we had they would have been unable to catch us. We couldn't and we kept giving them the ball back.
Yeah... you're right Homer, it's not like Reese never had to step in
for Coughlin to get rid of coaches and flat out cut players. Yep, Coughlin never kept veterans longer than he should in Jacksonville. It's all made up and just internet rumors. Yep, he was really cold blooded about wanting to get rid of Lewis and Hufnagel.
Yes, we're conditioned to expect that even if Pugh outplays DD at RT that DD will still take back that spot when Baas is back.
Alternate theory:
Coaches understand DD is physically outmatched, and move him to Guard (saving face for a guy who helped the team win 2 rings), while putting the hoped-for future guy in at RT.
If it all works, then eventually DD will come out due to "injury" but remain a starter on paper for at least a chunk of the season. A soft way to ease out the guy nobody on the coaching staff wants to ease out.
* I'd be less optimistic if DD stayed at RT and they just shuffled the interior OL.
that the Giants staff is worried about China Doll Beatty and a suitable LT replacement. Maybe they don't want to get rid of Diehl exactly for that reason. Sure he will get beat but at least he knows the plays. Makes sense that Pugh was in at LT.
My point is that Diehl is not still in the starting lineup because anybody is overly loyal to him. It's because the coaches are more comfortable with him than what they've seen from his possible alternatives. Their firsthand judgement is is a lot more credible than any of us reading twitter practice updates and watching games on tv. There is no conspiracy going on to keep Diehl in the lineup, it's more likely nobody else has earned his spot yet.
Then how come Sean Locklear stepped in when Diehl got hurt last year and did a much better job than Diehl? What happened last year doesn't quite jive with your explanation.
Please point to a direct source where Reese says he had to step in and fire a coach or get rid of a player. Please point to a direct source where Reese got rid of a coach or player without Coughlin's agreement.
And I don't mean some sportswriter's opinion that you have swallowed whole hog.
Locklear stayed at RT as the starter even once Diehl was healthy again because he came in and EARNED it before unfortunately blowing out his knee, at which point Diehl was inserted back in. Until the coaches feel more comfortable with Mosley at G or Cordle at C than having Diehl at G, then this makes sense to me.
4to80.. wrong. Diehl was given his job back as soon as he got healthy despite Locklear playing far better in his absense. Locklear's knee injury happened in Washington when he was filling in for Diehl who had gotten banged up again.
DD is not getting his starting RT spot back when Baas returns
but they have been proven wrong before. Cruz was in TCs doghouse after dropping one pass in game 1 back in 2011. They brought Stokely and played him over Cruz. That, to me, is an obvious huge blunder in hindsight. I'm ok with starting DD at LT or LG, but if he struggles, let's see what Pugh, Mosely or Brewer bring to the table during a real game. This is where I think TC may go wrong - he'll stick with DD too long. If the other guys prove they're worse, go back to DD. I don't see why that's so hard to do? It's not like your messing with a QBs mentality. I would think a vet like DD could handle it.
That Diehl (with a casted hand) is the staffs best LG at this point. Just make the guy a reserve and be done with it. There are better guards on this team than Diehl.
LG than RT and the injury to Baas allows them to do it without much fuss.
Should he be starting at all? No, but he's going to, somewhere on the line, and, for now, this is the best solution to the Diehl issue "we're" going to get.
any significant commentary on Eli underthrowing guys this training camp.
I'm sure he misses occasionally and it's been noted, because, you know, that happens, especially when timing is still being so heavily worked on, but usually, the reports generally have had him mostly "on."
it's better to underthrow than overthrow. An underthrown ball often ends up in a pass interference penalty if the DB doesn't turn around and play the ball and contact is made. Unfortunately, a good DB will also have an opportunity to pick off an underthrown ball. An overthrown ball could never end in a positive.
like all NFL coaches, will be playing the line-up he believes gives him the best chance of winning. Any opinion to the contrary, such as he is loyal to certain players, should not be taken too seriously.
I'm with Blogger on this
SwirlingEddie : 12:17 pm
I infer from Coughlin's decisions that he would much rather risk physical errors than mental ones. It may be because the former is more predictable and thus more manageable. Notice how often the RB was helping Diehl on Sunday. It's not about loyalty or any personal relationships.
What confuses me though is why the Giants apparently have much more difficulty than other teams assimilating new players into their scheme. It may just be a confirmation bias on my part, but it always jumps out at me when another team is starting a rookie or slides a young player into a role due to injury without an obvious hiccup.
Let's agree to disagree about that. As much as I love Tom Coughlin, for better or worse there's really no question that he can sometimes be loyal to a fault.
My bad. Just getting around to reading this thread and I see you mentioned the Diehl move awhile before I posted my link about it. Didn't mean to step on your toes there sir.
DD was a warrior for the Giants for a while... maybe moving him to LG
Highly doubt that's the case being that the only reason he's being moved at all is due to an injury we faced at Center and the need to reshuffle. Do you really believe he would have been benched if Baas didn't get hurt?
might be due to the cast he's got on his hand. If he can't grab onto rushing D-Linemen, that's a huge problem for a Tackle. Also a problem for a Guard, but perhaps less of one.
A bit inconsistent compared to other throws. He tends to put a little too much air under the ball. He's money with all the back shoulder throws, but when he has to really uncork one, you never know what your going together.
I agree, these guys act like they know better then the coaches and its nauseating.
Arc we as fans including yourself justify your opinions on physical talent alone where as that is all you know. There are obviously certain personal teammate qualities that factors into the coaching staff keeping Diehl in the starting lineup
An for everyone else, this topic is not worth 3 pages of threads. my god
The notion that Coughlin would risk the health of his franchise quarterback, any chance of winning another championship, and along with it, a spot in the HoF because of misguided loyalty to David Diehl is just ludicrous.
What's the body of work and detailed observation of same that has so many convinced that Mosley or Brewer or anyone else on the roster is a better option?
Could it be that Pugh was being worked at left tackle to develop an option in case Beatty gets injured that would preclude having to move Diehl over?
Some of the armchair coaches and GMs around here are way over the top.
Whoa! Unexpected, and not good ... RT @ebenezersamuel Cruz on crutches and a walking boot today
RT @ebenezersamuel Baas on crutches too . Left knee in thick black brace
Does Boothe going to center mean that Cordle is in jeopardy?
Our run game was horrible with DD at guard.
Hopefully Brewer can impress enough to move DD out.
I do think Boothe is our best center.
"Source says the plan to replace Baas in the lineup right now is to bring in rookie first-rounder Justin Pugh at RT. Diehl moves inside to OG"
"Oh and Kevin Boothe slides over from guard to center"
Surprise! David Diehl with cast on right hand
Reese needs to be held accountable too because many of us here on BBI were saying not to being back Diehl at any salary because the coaches will play him.
I like the Boothe and Pugh moves with Baas on the shelf, I just think Mosely deserves the 1st team reps. He's earned it. And unlike Diehl, he will hopefully be a big piece of the O-line moving forward.
Diehl is no longer deserving of starting position, probably not even a roster spot either.
While Diehl might get whipped physically, I think that's less likely to get Eli killed than mental breakdowns by inexperienced linemen. This is a temporary patch to get through Baas's absence. The glass is half-full: Diehl is no longer on an island, and he's halfway to the bench.
"Source says the plan to replace Baas in the lineup right now is to bring in rookie first-rounder Justin Pugh at RT. Diehl moves inside to OG"
"Oh and Kevin Boothe slides over from guard to center"
is exactly what I said would happen yesterday.
Brewer sucks. He's entering his third season, the team has tried him in several difference spots, and he has yet to crack the starting lineup or prove he is anything other than OL depth. Put Moseley and that McCants in the same category.
This is Mitch Petrus all over again. Everyone here was certain he should be a starter, he had all these attributes, and where is he now? Out of football.
No more complaining from me about DD because it is now on the GM to babysit his coach and be the bad guy. As Tuck said he wouldn't want Jerry Reese's job when referring to the cuts of AB, Boley and Canty.
The real news is that Cordle didn't win the center position. Brewer did not win RT, and nobody won LG, yet.
Thats all pretty interesting to me. Its not too late, but I'd sure like to see some guys step up.
Victor Cruz is using crutches with a walking boot to keep weight off his left heel. Swelling is the issue. Nothing more to it than that #nyg
What confuses me though is why the Giants apparently have much more difficulty than other teams assimilating new players into their scheme. It may just be a confirmation bias on my part, but it always jumps out at me when another team is starting a rookie or slides a young player into a role due to injury without an obvious hiccup.
If Cruz is in a walking boot with crutches NEXT Monday then get concerned.
While I'll agree we need to get DD out of RT, that's a tough chore for the rook.
Most of us have noted (over and over) the liability that has been Dave Diehl. Seems we were right about that.
That just might be the best combo we can put together even with Baas and Diehl healthy.
It might take some time to gel, but that group could be pretty good.
Link - ( New Window )
BillKo : 1:21 pm
while inserting OHara was a mistake, that didn't cost us the Philly game. Bone head plays cost us that game.
If we could have run the rock at the end of the game with the monster lead we had they would have been unable to catch us. We couldn't and we kept giving them the ball back.
That's two rookies in the starting lineup and that makes me uncomfortable about protecting Eli.
Yes, we're conditioned to expect that even if Pugh outplays DD at RT that DD will still take back that spot when Baas is back.
Alternate theory:
Coaches understand DD is physically outmatched, and move him to Guard (saving face for a guy who helped the team win 2 rings), while putting the hoped-for future guy in at RT.
If it all works, then eventually DD will come out due to "injury" but remain a starter on paper for at least a chunk of the season. A soft way to ease out the guy nobody on the coaching staff wants to ease out.
* I'd be less optimistic if DD stayed at RT and they just shuffled the interior OL.
And I don't mean some sportswriter's opinion that you have swallowed whole hog.
Bobby Epps : 2:13 pm
be a good idea.
That's two rookies in the starting lineup and that makes me uncomfortable about protecting Eli.
BUT, never having played a down in a regular season game, IMO makes him a rookie.
Then, we gave the ball immediately back to them after a botched onside kick that we were oblivous too.
We make one, or both those plays, the game is ours.
And, even with O'Hara out of the game, who says we still run the ball with the Eagles selling out on defense?
Working with 1st team OL in unit drill: LT Beatty, LG Diehl, C Boothe, RG Snee, RT Pugh
Antrel flying around in agility drill. Shows no visible limitation a week after spraining his ankle.
"I feel like all his deep plays this season have been underthrown"
Mark from Jersey : 4:32 pm
They have been...and this was an issue last year.
Should he be starting at all? No, but he's going to, somewhere on the line, and, for now, this is the best solution to the Diehl issue "we're" going to get.
That being said, Eli underthrows more than overthrows on deep balls of late.
I'm sure he misses occasionally and it's been noted, because, you know, that happens, especially when timing is still being so heavily worked on, but usually, the reports generally have had him mostly "on."
SwirlingEddie : 12:17 pm
I infer from Coughlin's decisions that he would much rather risk physical errors than mental ones. It may be because the former is more predictable and thus more manageable. Notice how often the RB was helping Diehl on Sunday. It's not about loyalty or any personal relationships.
What confuses me though is why the Giants apparently have much more difficulty than other teams assimilating new players into their scheme. It may just be a confirmation bias on my part, but it always jumps out at me when another team is starting a rookie or slides a young player into a role due to injury without an obvious hiccup.
Tracy being carted off now.
few other notes I jotted down
-Really like Michael Cox, guy moves so well and I think barring injury will lock up the 3rd RB spot
-Tuck looked good moving..didn't notice anything about him being unhealthy
-Cooper Taylor was back today..looks quite tall for a secondary member..big guy
-Adrien Robinson is about twice the size as Myers when looking at them standing next to eachother..he's a beast
- looked like a really shaky practice for Ryan Nassib...had some bad throws in there
- I thought Painter threw some nice balls today..curious to see how he does against the Jets..I think it;s going to be tight between him and Carr
-Didn't notice Murphy or Barden today..either I missed them or they didn't practice
-Jernigan muffed two punts I'm pretty sure
Arc we as fans including yourself justify your opinions on physical talent alone where as that is all you know. There are obviously certain personal teammate qualities that factors into the coaching staff keeping Diehl in the starting lineup
An for everyone else, this topic is not worth 3 pages of threads. my god
What's the body of work and detailed observation of same that has so many convinced that Mosley or Brewer or anyone else on the roster is a better option?
Could it be that Pugh was being worked at left tackle to develop an option in case Beatty gets injured that would preclude having to move Diehl over?
Some of the armchair coaches and GMs around here are way over the top.