Diehl is the man but Eli is the franchise and Diehl was not the answer at tackle. Hopefully Pugh is ready, he should have the feet to handle speed but I really wonder if he'll be strong enough as a rookie to handle the more powerful ends in the league.
and isolated on the o-line. Diehl wasn't wasn't that bad. We all saw the play he got beat on, but he was pretty solid most of the time. Saw him push his man around, and open some holes.
Baas looked great - on Wilson's 14 yd 1st quarter run, Baas took out a DT and also the MLB. Hope he comes back soon.
If Pugh can play reasonably well at RT and show continued improvement, then Diehl is pretty much stuck inside. Also, if Moseley continues to play well on the inside, it's not inconceivable that he can beat out Diehl over the next few weeks.
Diehl didn't play well at RT and it's possible that this is his final opportunity to start. It sucks because he's been a great Giant over his career but Father Time has caught up to him.
"I guess TC and Gillbride finally got around to watching
nygmen84 : 12:25 pm
DD's tape from the last 1.5 seasons."
Actually, they got around to having as rookie right tackle who wasn't coming off of 11 days out with a concussion. They drafted a tackle in the first round, and dozens of people on BBI still think they were being "too loyal" to Diehl, or something silly like that.
I used to think BBI was pretty hard on him but after yet another BBI Diehl bashing session yesterday I decided to rewatch the game yesterday and focused exclusivley on Diehl.
That guy is an absolute turnstlye out there and really should not be in the NFL anymore.. simply atrocious
i just rewatched the 1st half... DD was passable. ..he has picked up a bad habit of releasing from his block after a second or so... but he sure is slow on PP vs the outside or even inside rush. ..he also seemed to have blocked the wrong man twice. ..and he got TE help a lot.
Center is his only strength, and the staff changes three positions to eliminate any possibility of Cordle starting against Dallas.
In part, this reshuffle is a dignified way to ease Diehl toward the bench in a sixth (or seventh) man role. More immediately, though, it's a really bad sign for Cordle, and an indication that the team sees OL as a place to save a roster spot by relying on Boothe's versatility instead of carrying a backup center.
I pointed out the other week that I think Cordle might be expendable since Boothe always slides over to center, and that Brewer and Mosley's progress makes it even more so now.
Does this mean they're putting Boothe at C until Baas gets back? I have to believe that Boothe is better than Cordle.. and Boothe is absolutely a better LG than Diehl. So logically, Diehl should be out of a spot when Baas returns.. but I can't assume the Giants will do that.
I've been on the 'time to replace Diehl' bandwagon for some time, but it looks like it's happening now, no need to dump on a guy who's been a good player for us for a pretty long time.
I'm a little surprised given Pugh's limited practice time
move, now if Baas come's back healthy I would not be shocked to see Diehl move back to RT and Pugh back on the bench no matter how well he may be playing. Just the Coughlin way
I wonder if center is the best place for Baas, when he returns.
If Boothe is doing well, and POugh is holding his own, I wonder if it's even a thought to try Baas at Diehl's guiard spot. Didn't Baas polay a fair amount of guard before moving the center just before joining the Giants?
Diehl at Guard or anywhere on the starting OL doesn't seem like a good idea, but at least he's being moved from the Tackle position so hopefully this is only temporary.
but I would think he will still be an improvement at RT. The bar wasn't exactly set to high. As to when Baas returns what will happen. I think Diehl will get his job back at RT. He got it back last year when he came back from injury, don't see any reason to think the coaches will do differant.
Boothe to C, Pugh to RT, Deihl or Moseley to LG
Victor in CT : 8:06 am
May as well make Boothe the C now. Baas is always injured. They can't rely on him returning and staying healthy.
I agree with those saying that maybe Moseley should get a look at LG.
Makes no sense to swap him and Boothe. Baas is a better center. Boothe is a better guard.
BillT: If Baas were expected to miss months rather than weeks, Mosley-->LG would be in the mix, especially if Diehl struggles against the Jets. For this brief absence, I think they just want a quick veteran Band-Aid. When Baas returns, Diehl goes to the bench - unless Pugh washes out completely - and Boothe goes back to LG. Mosley will continue to work his way up the depth chart. I think he's a live candidate to replace Boothe eventually, but not as part of this short-term reshuffle.
...or Goodin, or somebody else. Point is, we now know that Cordle isn't really the #2 center. He's the #3 center on a team that might only have room for two, once those two are healthy.
think Dave Diehl is a very good guard these days, but I'm not sure there's a better answer on the roster.
Boothe's shotgun snaps are an adventure waiting to happen and Pugh looks promising, but is raw and a little weaker than I'd like.
Not an ideal situation.
Diehl should be loved by Giants fans. Not for his play the last couple of years of course. But if you feel the need to go attack mode, attack the coaches who continued to trot him out there.
Diehl should no longer be a starter, but he's the shit.
As fans, all we can really ask out of the players is that they give us maximum effort. Diehl worked his ass off, worked his way up the depth chart, and fended off a few guys once he became a starter. It's more of an indictment on the coaches that he continues to get meaningful snaps. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love Coughlin too, but every coach has his warts. Even Parcells had his flaws.
If he returns to health, I'd look to rework his deal with some new money and reduce that cap hit. Mosley at LG, and see if Capers continues to grow, as well as Brewer, and Herman.
in making sound decisions. Even the ones that might not have panned out, you could understand the rationalization. Constantly restructuring Baas was always a head scratcher. I get why we overpaid to sign him in the 1st place, and that we are up against the cap when we asked him to restructure. I just hope we don't end up losing JPP or Linval on the account of Baas' cap hit in the next couple years.
...focused on DD and thought he wasn't awful. They slanted the protections his way after several early whiffs. He stank. Just awful.
I appreciate his contributions but at this stage the sooner he retires the better. He's looked bad at OG in recent stints there. That ship has sailed. He's an OT. Unfortunately at this point he's one of the worst in football.
Diehl period! He might've been worse at guard in 2011 than he was at tackle in 2011. maybe the team played so well he just blended in at left tackle. Did a decent job against demarcus ware even though he looked like shit in the second of half of the nfc championship game while also struggling in the superbowl
think, I hope, Coughlin is beginning to understand that Diehl is done. Pugh is a rookie who has missed most of camp, but is named the incumbent starter at RT over Diehl after only one preseason game.
There will be some growing pains. I think he needs a couple of good cycles of roids though (seriously). That being said we need to hit the OL in the first or second round(or both) in next years draft.
when Baas returns and the Giants put Boothe on the bench. In no way do I condone this as Boothe is our 2nd best linemen behind Beatty but in the past the Giants brass (pretty sure it was Gilbride and Reese) has said that they like Boothe to be the swing linemen (granted this was before Diehl became a walking turnstile) and I really have given up hope on their ability to evaluate David Diehl.
I don't think they're going to stick Boothe on the bench.
And he may be ok at LG. We'll see. Baas has been a huge bust. Leave him on IR, leave Boothe at C. Baas can't stay healthy to the point that he seems cursed. It's not like he's made anyone forget O'Hara or Brian Williams since he's been here.
directions. Unless Pugh is a monumental bust, logic says a 1st round player should only get better. There might be some tough moments along the way, but he should get better moving forward.
Sometimes you have to lean on a rookie and ask him do what you drafted him to do. The Giants won a Super Bowl in '07 doing just that and that was with quite a few rookies.
Coaching Staff - 1 (conservatively)
BBI Washer Women - 0
Let's see, staff gives a loyal, dedicated vet who worked hard in the offseason a chance to start, but has a Plan B in place coming out of the draft (Pugh). Vet is moved before games mean anything.
I assume anyone that doesn't see the value in this series of events versus other options just doesn't understand how organizations and people work.
Indeed, but I suspect they'd make the move after '14, if they determine it's time to move on. When healthy, he's been very good, but constantly dinged while with NYG.
This just made my week. Awesome news. Thought Pugh looked pretty good last week, if Eli is going to see pressure anyway...I would rather take the lumps with an ascending/learning player.
How dare you introduce the full picture to this one-sided narrative? Don't you realize that we, the fans, deserve better than David Diehl. We may have been lauding his heart and skill when he helped the team win two Super Bowls but that was then and this is now.
BBI is grossly overestimating the probability of Manning getting hurt as a specific consequence of Diehl's play on the 20 or so drop backs he was likely to get in the first two preseason games.
True, but the point is sometimes you still gotta lean on a guy before you were planning to do so. Keep close tabs on him and give him the help you would have been giving DD anyway and expect him to get better. I would be shocked if he doesn't and very disappointed in the pick if he can't offer something better than DD.
The last two years, Eli has been running around for his life, and that is in no small part due to DD.
Eli doesn't have large sack numbers, but how many times have we seen Eli flushed out to the right becuase DD's man beat him to the inside, or Eli flushed to the left becuase DD's guy beat him outside?
DD gets about zero credit for the last two seasons of Eli's durability.
DD once guys beat him. I watched the Rbs all check-release to that side and help chip the LE on their way out to their routes. That helped us. We can't keep doing that so I think this will be a good move. Let's see if DD can show good movement on power and G concept running plays.
Boothe being the swingman once Baas returns. I have been vocal about Diehls diminished capacity to play any tackle position, but I do see he may be serviceable to ok at Left Guard between the two best Linemen we have til Bass returns. After that all bets are off and Diehl should ride the bench!
just based on: during his prime years he was better at left tackle than right.
maybe the familiarity and timing will be there next to Beatty since he played so many years on that side, also, being sandwiched between beatty and boothe is not a bad thing.
this might be about preserving mosely and making sure he is ready just in case.
The idea that he should move to guard temporarily, and then back up several positions, strikes me as bizarre, too. Why do you want a backup who is both 1) old and 2) very bad? His knowledge of the playbook and familiarity with the offense are the tangible advantages he possesses over street FAs, though it didn't take much time for Locklear to surpass him despite those advantages.
Diehl lingering past his expiration date has somehow assisted him in lingering further past said date. It's quite strange.
at the LT position against Indy. Did not look like a rookie. Could be just the excuse TC needed to move DD out gracefully. Let's see what DD does at LG. He wasn't good there before. I doubt that changes, although hopefully not.
Ten Ton... I was the thinking the EXACT same thing.
In the 2011 opener in Washington, DD was an abomination at guard. When he got moved to tackle, people were saying that's a more natural spot for him now.
with boothe and maybe mosley as guards and snee at center.
interviews mentioned both snee and boothe yelling out the center assignments to (cordle?)..thinking snee knows it all well now and wondering if center would be easier for the old man snee.
maybe snee at center vs 4-3 teams and boothe vs 3-4 teams?
is not pretty. He's 32 in September and there doesn't appear to be a good exit strategy there.
We really need to reload on the OL. Hopefully Pugh works out. I generally think Reese is terrific in the draft, but the OL has been a lot more miss than hit. Lots of eggs in the Pugh basket right now. Everybody else is in the "believe it when I see it" category - we've seen lots of mid-rounders talked up on BBI and then come and go while making little impact. Brewer, Moseley, and whoever else is out there seem to fit that bill.
I never said Diehl should or should not be starting. I was however willing to defer to a coaching staff whose track record in offensive football has been beyond reproach in 9 years of Giant football. They've opted to go with Pugh, and I'm fine with that assessment. Had they opted for Diehl, I'd have been confident that he was the best course of action given the options they have within the confines of their roster.
What I won't do is say that the coaches are going to get Eli hurt, when their record on that front is actually the best in the NFL since they've been here.
Don't worry...I'll continue to be right with soccer too. I'd tell you to stick to soccer but you don't know much about that either.
very busy, but a productive year.
Spent a few hours doing film breakdown and analysis for a local college and it was kind of fun now that it's not a full time job.
That's very good. Except for Giants football, I have been out of touch with it. My football binder is collecting dust somewhere. I will have to find it as opening night comes around.
I been busy as well. Getting ready to apply to PA school. I am taking 1 additional class this fall semester, and studying for the GRE. So busy with everything.
This coming from someone who predictrd Ronaldo would drop off in la liga when he transferred from manchester and oh lets not forget how you and Jon laughed at me when I predicted a very close Portugal Spain world cup game.
You don't watch game tape, thats fine. Just don't make comments where all your argument is "I'm sure the coaches know what theyre doing, therefore all is well". Ain't gonna cut it.
Diehl to G, Pugh new starting RT - ( New Window )
In fairness, though, ya gotta love his vesatility. He can play badly at four different OL positions.
Cordle did not shine vs the Colts.
Maybe Brewer will step in at LG?
Baas looked great - on Wilson's 14 yd 1st quarter run, Baas took out a DT and also the MLB. Hope he comes back soon.
Diehl didn't play well at RT and it's possible that this is his final opportunity to start. It sucks because he's been a great Giant over his career but Father Time has caught up to him.
nygmen84 : 12:25 pm
DD's tape from the last 1.5 seasons."
Actually, they got around to having as rookie right tackle who wasn't coming off of 11 days out with a concussion. They drafted a tackle in the first round, and dozens of people on BBI still think they were being "too loyal" to Diehl, or something silly like that.
That guy is an absolute turnstlye out there and really should not be in the NFL anymore.. simply atrocious
JonC : 12:29 pm
to give them no choice but to leave here for good, even after Baas returns.
In part, this reshuffle is a dignified way to ease Diehl toward the bench in a sixth (or seventh) man role. More immediately, though, it's a really bad sign for Cordle, and an indication that the team sees OL as a place to save a roster spot by relying on Boothe's versatility instead of carrying a backup center.
(I hope)
They need Cordle.
Here we go!
If Boothe is doing well, and POugh is holding his own, I wonder if it's even a thought to try Baas at Diehl's guiard spot. Didn't Baas polay a fair amount of guard before moving the center just before joining the Giants?
On the otherhand, DD had a few bad plays;on the whole he wasn't bad.
Victor in CT : 8:06 am
May as well make Boothe the C now. Baas is always injured. They can't rely on him returning and staying healthy.
I agree with those saying that maybe Moseley should get a look at LG.
He was awful.
BillT: If Baas were expected to miss months rather than weeks, Mosley-->LG would be in the mix, especially if Diehl struggles against the Jets. For this brief absence, I think they just want a quick veteran Band-Aid. When Baas returns, Diehl goes to the bench - unless Pugh washes out completely - and Boothe goes back to LG. Mosley will continue to work his way up the depth chart. I think he's a live candidate to replace Boothe eventually, but not as part of this short-term reshuffle.
You know the Pokes will try to exploit that.
Boothe's shotgun snaps are an adventure waiting to happen and Pugh looks promising, but is raw and a little weaker than I'd like.
Not an ideal situation.
I think the starting O-line should be:
Beatty
Snee
Bass (when he gets healthy) Boothe for now
Brewer
Pugh
I'd put Brewer ahead of Diehl, btw.
Diehl should no longer be a starter, but he's the shit.
General questions :
Has Mosley gotten any reps at LG? Boothe's a UFA after this season, iirc.
Is Snee's cap hit massive again next season? Sportrac and the like are blocked at work for me.
If he returns to health, I'd look to rework his deal with some new money and reduce that cap hit. Mosley at LG, and see if Capers continues to grow, as well as Brewer, and Herman.
Checking.......
2015 $8,475,000
Beatty Brewer ? Mosley Pugh
Why not just rip off the band-aid now and do THAT.
Snee can play Center, so plug him in until Baas gets back, and then use Snee as a back-up utility guy.
Center should be a 1st day priority in next years draft.
I appreciate his contributions but at this stage the sooner he retires the better. He's looked bad at OG in recent stints there. That ship has sailed. He's an OT. Unfortunately at this point he's one of the worst in football.
Like hoping that the 4th string Colts QB gets cut because Pam Oliver's face ran into one of his passes before the game Sunday night.
I can't see the Giants cutting Baas next year because the cap savings isn't significant, so we'll probably hold onto him for one more season
An absolutely mind-numbing restructure. Can't believe JR did that.
Diehl at guard would demolish that. Mosely needs to be the backup guard.He's certainly played like a deserving player.
They need to decide if they're going to carry Diehl or not.
Pant load of money either way.
Sometimes you have to lean on a rookie and ask him do what you drafted him to do. The Giants won a Super Bowl in '07 doing just that and that was with quite a few rookies.
We're lucky it's just a month or so.
BBI Washer Women - 0
Let's see, staff gives a loyal, dedicated vet who worked hard in the offseason a chance to start, but has a Plan B in place coming out of the draft (Pugh). Vet is moved before games mean anything.
I assume anyone that doesn't see the value in this series of events versus other options just doesn't understand how organizations and people work.
Eli doesn't have large sack numbers, but how many times have we seen Eli flushed out to the right becuase DD's man beat him to the inside, or Eli flushed to the left becuase DD's guy beat him outside?
DD gets about zero credit for the last two seasons of Eli's durability.
Eli went like 3 straight weeks without getting sacked once when Locklear was playing RT. When Diehl came back, he started getting sacked again.
81_Great_Dane : 12:20 pm
Can't he be moved to backup guard?
In fairness, though, ya gotta love his versatility. He can play badly at four different OL positions.
maybe the familiarity and timing will be there next to Beatty since he played so many years on that side, also, being sandwiched between beatty and boothe is not a bad thing.
this might be about preserving mosely and making sure he is ready just in case.
lets hope pugh does well.
where is snee at? could he return as a center?
He'll be staring lovingly into Mr. Bubblebutt's YUUUGE ass for a few weeks.
DD doesn't deserve to play! DD doesnt deserve to play!
I dont give two shits about DD at this. David should have retired 2 years ago. Sometimes I wonder if Coughlin is senile?
The idea that he should move to guard temporarily, and then back up several positions, strikes me as bizarre, too. Why do you want a backup who is both 1) old and 2) very bad? His knowledge of the playbook and familiarity with the offense are the tangible advantages he possesses over street FAs, though it didn't take much time for Locklear to surpass him despite those advantages.
Diehl lingering past his expiration date has somehow assisted him in lingering further past said date. It's quite strange.
interviews mentioned both snee and boothe yelling out the center assignments to (cordle?)..thinking snee knows it all well now and wondering if center would be easier for the old man snee.
maybe snee at center vs 4-3 teams and boothe vs 3-4 teams?
We really need to reload on the OL. Hopefully Pugh works out. I generally think Reese is terrific in the draft, but the OL has been a lot more miss than hit. Lots of eggs in the Pugh basket right now. Everybody else is in the "believe it when I see it" category - we've seen lots of mid-rounders talked up on BBI and then come and go while making little impact. Brewer, Moseley, and whoever else is out there seem to fit that bill.
What I won't do is say that the coaches are going to get Eli hurt, when their record on that front is actually the best in the NFL since they've been here.
Don't worry...I'll continue to be right with soccer too. I'd tell you to stick to soccer but you don't know much about that either.
Spent a few hours doing film breakdown and analysis for a local college and it was kind of fun now that it's not a full time job.
And you?
I been busy as well. Getting ready to apply to PA school. I am taking 1 additional class this fall semester, and studying for the GRE. So busy with everything.
Did you make it to training camp at all?
You don't watch game tape, thats fine. Just don't make comments where all your argument is "I'm sure the coaches know what theyre doing, therefore all is well". Ain't gonna cut it.