Roster Talk: Patterson, Austin, Kuhn -who sticks?

I don't understand the way this coaching staff thinks sometimes, i.e. the fascination with Diehl, and even bringing Hynoski off PUP. But it would be unreal if they brought Kuhn off PUP less than a year after tearing his ACL, and while being stacked at DL.

Assuming Kuhn stays on the PUP, I'd go with Patterson over Austin, but I'm not sure there is room for either frankly. Austin might actually have some trade value, although the max I think we'd get is a sixth, and I wouldn't be surprised if we got nothing.

People claim he can be a run-plugger, but I've never seen any evidence of it. Gets blown off the LOS consistently as if he were on roller skates.

Id go with Linval, Jenkins, Hank, Rogers, Patterson, Kuhn....Austin's time is up. You have to cut your losses. This guy was out of football for a year before we drafted him and hasnt done one thing to make me say " well maybe he will breakout" Everytime hes out there its the same old shit.

Id keep the 300 pounders like Patterson and Rogers over him. At least they both have NFL experience when Austin has preseason experience.

Cut Austin already and admit he didnt work out as planned. He will catch on somewhere MAYBE, but our DLine and DE's is a position where we need to excel at and we have better players then him at the time.Its a numbers game. Kuhn has shown me more then Austin ever has.

and batting down throws. What has Marv shown us? (crickets)

Means 11 DL, 6 LB, 9 DB for 26 total. That means 3 QB, 3 RB, 1 FB, 5 WR, 3 TE, 9 OL for 24 total. It's possible but means either the 5th CB or 5th safety is cut. Hard to see that. I think that have to make a choice there and go with 5 DTs. Don't know who I'd choose.

He's by far the best FB on the team and will be a big factor in the running game.

As for Kuhn, at this point it doesn't make sense to take him off PUP. But if you're keeping him on PUP, you don't keep Austin and Patterson (with Joseph, Jenkins, Rogers, and Hankins also on the final 53). With the top 4 healthy, those 2 would likely both be inactive weekly. And Kuhn would be laying in wait in case one of the 5 succumb to injury.

One thing to keep in mind, is that the final few spots often come down to special teams play. I'm pretty sure Austin has played some STs, but not sure about Patterson. Early in the season it could also lead to Austin being active over Hankins too (unless Hankins been on STs?)

If he's activated hes gone.

round pick rookie with no conditioning program last year. I think the team would be foolish not to stash him with the depth we now
have at DT. PUP then IR him if no firther injuries come after week 4.

Austin is making the roster, he was a second round oick and hes coming into his 3rd year. He has played well this preseason, otherwise I might think they would cut ties. But how long was Sinirice Moss on this team given he never showed a thing?. Giants have a tendency for not giving up on their top pick investments.

Patterson is the odd man out, I think they brought him in to lush the younger guys harder. Not expecting he may play as well as he has. I think Rogers makes it over him as that veteran DT, along with Jenkins. Their nit cutting Kuhn or Austin over Patterson.

2nd and 3rd team OL's and he still doesnt do anything. Why are we paying him. Just bc he was a 2nd rd pick doesnt give him more of an edge. We took a gamble and lost. It happens. Believe me you wont see Marvin Austin on the highlight reel playing for another team. Maybe if you stop at a Walmart in a few months you will see him

They really do play different positions. So although we tend to look at it from the perspective of how many DTs, I'm not sure the team looks at it this way. It would be like looking at WRs and forgetting to keep a backup slot.

remember, when he was drafted, they thought his biggest impact would be rumbling down on kickoff coverage and destroying people ahead of him. He got in the games because of injuries at DT. I think the Giants still like him and will probably keep him on PUP so they can delay the decision to bring him back.

I think Austin will be given one more year to prove himself. Patterson is the odd man out.

he's looked good in preseason and has been close to Patterson's level. Youth gives him the edge.

If Kuhn is activated, he is gone, no doubt. But it makes no sense to activate him. He's a free-bee.

We have alot of DTs, but we a have a desparate need for high quality tackles

Sounds crazy, but if managent thinks that Kuhns ceiling is higher than those on the roster, I'm all for activating him.

This team does want to be able to do more things with 3-4 type looks. Now granted, we have two other guys who can, but there are things Patterson can do which Austin can't.

if that's the case wouldn't Austin have the edge?

Cloggers
Joseph
Rogers
Hankins
Patterson

Penetrators
Jenkins
Austin

take Ojomo over Austin and Patterson.

I am keeping Kuhn on PUP or IR

I am keeping Austin over Patterson.

That leaves 10 DL - 5 DE + 5 DT

Put Joseph in the penetrators group.

Kuhn at least showed more heart and the hunger to play. Austin has been a shit show. When has he played well???? It doesnt count when its the 4th QT of the first preseason game for a guy who was a 2nd rd pick going against camp fodder. C'mon if we keep him it will be a wasted spot.

Kuhn a 7th rd pick, meanwhile, had no training camp as a rookie, and still made it onto the field. In the Cinci game he was batting down balls with perfect timing on his jumps. He may not be a run stuffer, but hes better then Austin.

I feel like Austin has no heart or desire to play. No hunger to prove all the doubters wrong. He just doesnt seem to be one of those types. Too lethargic.

Quote:

In the Cinci game he was batting down balls with perfect timing on his jumps.

If that's the best thing you can say about a DT, yeah, he sucks.

Is there something I missed that Austin has EVER done? Ill take a 300+ pound Patterson to clog the middle over a guy who wont see the field for his 4th straight year. Austin is our Sinorice Moss of DT's

will have to be activated.

I agree, Ojomo is really shaping up to look like a guy we have to keep. I get the who, who is he playing against thing, but when a guy shows it over and over, there is usually something to it.

Is the health at the WR position and the need to keep a 3rd QB.

that Austins first year he had a torn pec.. so he couldnt do anything.. his second year he wasnt in shape and had a knee injury.. also he hadnt played football in two years ( he couldnt play his last year in college because of suspension )

Austin showed decent against Pittsburg and showed some penetration against the Colts ( although he didnt get a sack, he was disruptive at times and was close to at least 1 sack that I remember )

Kuhn should go onto IR and use the year to completely recover and get stronger..

Patterson I dont know.. I havent seen enough..

getting dinged up like everybody else. This is why the preseason should only be two or three games at most.

Much was made of a throwaway comment from Coughlin that he had heard Pierre-Paul and Kuhn are getting close. Pierre-Paul will almost certainly be activated, which is the only part of the statement that should matter to anyone. Kuhn? Not even worth discussing. The only reason to activate him now would be to get a look at him in practice before cutting him. I doubt the Giants would do that, and even if they did, he's out of the Week 1 roster discussion anyway.

Patterson vs. Austin is more interesting. I'm fairly sure that if the competition is close, they will keep Austin and release Patterson. It's not just that Austin is a second-round pick who may still have upside. To me, it doesn't make good business sense to carry a vested veteran on the Week 1 roster if he's going to be a healthy scratch. I don't think the fifth DT will dress vs. Dallas, and I wouldn't want to guarantee Patterson's salary (even with a discounted cap number) when I might have to cut him soon to open a roster spot for depth at another position.

At some point, if it looks like Austin has plateaued, they might waive him and bring Patterson back. Patterson would also be a potential mid-season replacement for an injured DT. If another team picks him up in the meantime, so be it. A guy who isn't getting a shirt for the opener can't be all that central to the team's plans.

Obviously, if Patterson is way ahead of Austin on merit, and if he figures more prominently in the rotation that I have assumed, then it's a different ballgame.

needed.

Keep both Patterson and Austin. Patterson is a better player than Austin but is a short term solution. Keep both and allow Austin to keep progressing.

a guy on PUP just because its convenient. against the rules

But if there is a way, they may take it. In 2008 they had a major issue with DL wearing down the stretch and went out and stockpiled DTs on the offseason. With Canty out and not 100% when he returned, we saw similar situation last year, and they hit DT heavy in FA and draft. Couple that with comments about stopping the run and looking into 3-4 type looks to counter the read option offenses, and it is clear this is their number one focus on the D side of the ball.

Exactly.

cut bait this early with a second rounder. If he shows nothing this year, he may not make it to the opening day roster in '14..

I lean towards Patterson vs Kuhn, but no real clue as to what the Giants thinking is. That said, Kuhn would probably get through waivers. If Patterson was let go, I see him being quickly snapped up

off acl injury.

Although they are very different players, it's possible that the guy Patterson really needed to bump was Rogers. If that's the competition, it seems to be going Big Shaun's way, but you never know. They are both completely cuttable.

Austin over Patterson, Kuhn is in no man's land if they remove him from PUP.

I would love to keep Patterson but I don't see how they can do it. I don't think Rodgers or Austin are going anywhere.

the giants know that, but the guys ready to go. he is in incredible shape

patterson's in, i think we keep all of em, with all the DEs playing OLB and only keeping 5 true linebackers. all the big guys deserve to make it

I know - size isn't everything, as my wife assures me. Austin plays smaller than his listed size and Patterson has a long history of playing bigger than his. (Just ask Shaun O'Hara: the next time he blocks Patterson will be the first.) But since you seem to be a size queen, note that Austin has an inch and a dozen pounds on Patterson; and unlike MP, he might still be growing.

Physically and athletically, Austin is a monster. Sadly, for all of his superficial resemblance to Warren Sapp, he has played more like Warren Beatty.

How are they keeping Patterson on top of Joseph, Jenkins, Hankins, Rodgers and Austin? They're not keeping 6.

He's a solid plugger, but when talking about the #5 DT teams tend to stick with potential (Austin).

allocation to a 34 team

the Giants are keeping 6 DT's even if Jenkins does swing outside on occasion. I think Patterson gets cut and someone signs him Week 2.

Kuhn has to stay on PUP. Makes zero sense to activate him when you can just stash him for a couple months.

3-4 teams keep 6 DT's? Wut?

...because they decide that two of Herzlich, Curry and Bosworth aren't worth keeping. But even if that happens, they will add a sixth LB very soon. Eleven defensive lineman is not a sustainable roster allocation. At best, it's a short-term ploy to put off hard decisions for a few extra days while other questions shake out.

The little I saw of him, I was impressed how well he played for a player with so little experience. He has the ability to grow into an outstanding DT. I have no idea if he will do it, but it would be hard to give up on the guy this early. I don't think they would, if they activate him from the PUP, I think it would be because they feel he is worth a spot on the 53 sooner rather than later this season.

4-5 edge rushers and a handful of ILBs

Well, first of all.. 3-4 looks don't mean we're keeping 3-4 personnel, and even still.. 3-4 teams don't keep 6 big bodies who can play DT. That makes no sense.

and have you seen him this year? Dude went crazy lifting, eager to see him with his new strength training in the trenches. Kid was already a bit of a freak athlete. I think the coaches like Kuhn, but keep him on PUP until you need him. You know people will get dinged.

16 players for the front seven, and you're just juggling the spots around. The problem is, we're not a 3-4 team, and you can't just count Jenkins et.al. as 5-tech DEs and Kiwanuka, Tracy and Moore as hybrid OLBs. The 3-4 and 5-2 are interesting wrinkles, but the Giants play a 4-3 - a 4-3 in which Mathias Kiwauka is a starting DE. He's not Spencer Paysinger's backup.