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David Carr/Curtis Painter

chrispisano66 : 8/26/2013 10:27 am
I'm trying to find a reason why either of these guys should make the roster and with the drafting of Nassib I just don't see it. That said, I think one of them will definitely be here, here's why I disagree with it.

To me, the drafting of Nassib is totally different than Woodson or Bomar. Nassib is not a guy who was viewed as a 5th-7th rounder you take a flyer on. Many thought he was a consideration for a top 10 pick and almost everyone considered him a 1st or 2nd round pick at worst. With the recent success of young QBs, should a talent like Nassib not be considered to be a capable back-up?

This is where Carr and Painter make no sense to me. I admit I am of the belief that if Eli goes down for any significant amount of time, all is lost. If Eli ever did get hurt, I know I'd want to see Nassib and I'd be really pissed if I had to watch 1 of the other 2. I feel the presence of Carr or Painter will slow/stunt the growth of Nassib. Furthermore, if you think either of those guys are giving you a good chance to win any games, it's not happening.

I'd much rather save the roster spot for guys like Donnell, Trattou/Tracy/Ojomo, Patterson/Austin or maybe another Safety.
Can we put the notion of him being a top ten pick to bed?  
Blue Baller : 8/26/2013 10:29 am : link
That was only the case because his former coach had a high pick.

Not only did that coach not pick him, he picked another QB

i think painter has played  
mattlawson : 8/26/2013 10:29 am : link
better than Carr and I think can run the offense closest to what Eli does if the unmentionable should happen.
I like Painter over Carr...  
M.S. : 8/26/2013 10:31 am : link
...and a couple of days ago said he may win #2 spot and Carr gets cut.

Then, again, Coach loyalty may come into play in which case Painter is a goner.
Cut 'em both  
PEEJ : 8/26/2013 10:32 am : link
I doubt seriously , if either gets picked up, let alone both. Keep their number on speed dial , just in case they're needed
agree with PEEJ  
islander1 : 8/26/2013 10:33 am : link
seriously, they both suck.
This offense is really tough for a young QB to get a grasp of.  
Section331 : 8/26/2013 10:36 am : link
Even Eli, with his QB bloodlines, struggled with it. Carr and Painter aren't very good, but at least Carr knows the offense. If Eli were to go down for any length of time, we're screwed, but if we need a backup to win a game or 2, I'd rather count on Carr than Nassib at this point.
silly question  
mattlawson : 8/26/2013 10:40 am : link
Can painter be added to the practice squad?

then we never should have drafted Nassib  
islander1 : 8/26/2013 10:40 am : link
what was the point again? Eli's not 37 here. if we're seriously drafting a 4th round QB to be an 'eventual' 5 year backup then SMH what makes anyone think Nassib would stay around when his contract is up in 4 years?

Maybe one of you intelligent football guys can remind me what I'm missing here.
Agree with your  
TMS : 8/26/2013 10:42 am : link
premise that Nassib's development will be hindered if we keep one of the other two as the backup. Take the chance that ELI stays healthy and a prepare limited offensive package for Nassib, if the unthinkable happens. We are not going to win anyway. with either of the other two, if ELI goes down.
The backup QB  
jv : 8/26/2013 10:42 am : link
does more than just come into the game should Eli get hurt. He helps Eli with preparation and assists with in game defensive breakdowns and analysis. It's something that I'm not sure Nassib is ready to take on and to be frank he hasn't exactly looked spectacular in camp or preseason games. Carr or Painter is going to stick for better or worse.
all 3 backup qb's  
marc in easton : 8/26/2013 10:42 am : link
Make me long for Perriloux. Nassib gets a pass for being a rookie
I'm available  
Marty in Albany : 8/26/2013 10:49 am : link
Yea, neither  
Jan in DC : 8/26/2013 10:52 am : link
Carr or Painter has been impressive. If pressed, I'd say that Painter was better than Carr. But why not let Nassib play with the second team against New England. Maybe he outplays them both instead of running for his life behind our 3rd team OL.
So we shouldn't draft a player  
Section331 : 8/26/2013 10:54 am : link
because he may not be ready to play after 8 weeks? Depth is important, especially at QB, so what is the matter with drafting for depth?

And who knows? Maybe some team gets desperate for a young QB and will offer something of value.
Cut all three  
snumber6 : 8/26/2013 10:57 am : link
If Eli is hurt the season is over anyway ...
Keep punting and rely on points from the defense ...

Can we put it to bed that we WON'T go with Nassib as our only back-up ??

I agree, dump them both  
ZogZerg : 8/26/2013 10:57 am : link
and roll with the Rookie. If something does happen to Eli, we can sign one back to the Roster. Neither one has looked good.

For the "offense too complex" crowd - you realize they can slim down the playbook if they need to.
Section - we had way too many needs  
islander1 : 8/26/2013 10:59 am : link
to draft Nassib where we did. Value, my ass. Where's the value on our terribad offense line now?

If he's being drafted to basically be better then Carr, then lets get it started now.
I like it  
Ira : 8/26/2013 11:07 am : link
Bring back the Hefty Lefty.
BigBlueinChicago : 8/26/2013 11:10 am : link
I still hold that Nassib was drafted to be traded within 2 years for a 2nd or late 1st round pick.

Giants probably saw the market for which QB's were being traded over the last few years. If they can build up his value and the end result comes in the form of draft picks, I think it's a good move.
Agree with original poster  
terrykinard : 8/26/2013 11:10 am : link
Nassib should automatically be our #2 or Reese/Coughlin made a horrible mistake.

Kirk Cousins was a fourth rounder and he won two games for the 'Skins last year.

Hated the pick in April; hate it even more now that Carr will be getting Nassib's reps. Because Carr won't win us any games if Eli goes down
What if Eli was  
JoefromPa : 8/26/2013 11:23 am : link
only forced to miss one game, and that game could make the difference between the play offs or not. Would you still want the rookie over Carr?
chrispisano66 : 8/26/2013 11:29 am : link
I would still want Nassib.

David Carr or Painter give me absolutely no reason to believe their chances in one game are any better than Ryan Nassib.

Again, a playbook can always be simplified (see Eli vs. Pittsburgh in 04). There's not much you can do when a guy is just terrible.
I Agree To Cut Them Both  
Trainmaster : 8/26/2013 11:32 am : link
if (heaven forbid), Eli were to get hurt, Carr and / or Painter would be on their couch, not on another team's roster at that time. I think it would be worth the gamble to only keep Nassib. You'll accelerate his development.

My only concern is how well Nassib can run the scout team for the defense, especially early in the season.
drafting for potential trade bait is a risky proposition  
islander1 : 8/26/2013 11:41 am : link
there's seldom a shortage of young QB's coming out of the draft every year. The teams that usually need a QB the worst are the ones in best position to draft one of Nassib caliber or better.

I hear you, I'm just not agreeing with this notion if it's indeed the case.
Joepa- yes, yes I would  
islander1 : 8/26/2013 11:42 am : link
its not worth the roster spot. Teams with 3 QBs on the roster are wasting a roster spot.
I would like to retire this picture  
Geomon : 8/26/2013 11:49 am : link

And Painter really isn't any better than Nassib, so cut both of them.
As a Purdue guy  
NNJ Tom : 8/26/2013 11:55 am : link
it pains me to say that Painter flat out suck Saturday night. He didn't get a lot of help but he missed way too many throws.

Carr, he is the safe choice, but makes little sense otherwise.

If you used a pick on Nassib, then you have to keep him.

Lets hope Eli keeps the Ironman thing going.
Backups need to be ready to play  
Jupiter : 8/26/2013 12:04 pm : link
At any position, the backup needs to be able to step in and play immediately. Regardless of what you think of Carr or Painter, either one is more ready to play than Nassib is.

Nassib hasn't shown anything to get excited about in his preseason game appearances. He may develop but I would not risk a season or even a game with him as the backup this year.
I agree...  
dguy901 : 8/26/2013 12:41 pm : link
The Giants can't afford to keep more than 2 QB's on the roster with the current personnel issues the team has. Eli has never missed a game due to injury and I don't expect this year to be any different, yes it could be though. I also agree both Carr and Painter would be on their couch should we need them. And I do believe Painter would qualify for the practise squad if that is insurance the Giants felt was needed. IMHO.
gidiefor : Mod : 8/26/2013 12:42 pm : link
no Painter would not qualify for the practice squad
I don't understand why people have an issue with using a 4th on a  
Hades07 : 8/26/2013 1:05 pm : link
player expected to be a back-up QB. Depth is important in this league and it is rare to find anything but a back-up in the 4th round anyway. Why not get a back-up at an important position like QB instead of back up TE or DT or S?

Here is some of the 4th round picks by the Giants, not great odds at grabbing an impact player at any position:

TE-Adrian Robinson
OL-Brandon Mosley
OL-James Brewer
LB-Phillip Dillard
RB-Andre Brown
LB-Bryan Kehl
LS-Zak DeOssie
DT-Barry Cofield
OL-Guy Whimper
RB-Brandon Jacobs
LB-Reggie Torbor
CB-Rod Babers
DE-Cedric Scott
QB-Jesse Palmer
LB-Brandon Short
RB-Sean Bennett
LB-Pete Monty
QB-Danny Kanell
OL-Rob Zatechka
LB-Ben Talley
S-Tito Wooten (supp)
DT-Chris Maumalanga
OL-Greg Bishop
DL-Keith Hamilton
OL-Clarence Jones
S-David Whitmore

So 23 years yielded Jacobs, Hamilton and Cofield as impact starters. The rest have been back-ups, marginal starters, special teams contributors or non-contributors.

By comparison the QBs taken in the 4th are

Kirk Cousins
Mike Kafka
Stephen McGee
Isaih Stanback
Kyle Orton
Stephan LeFors
Luke McNown
Seneca Wallace
David Garrard
Rohan Davey
Chris Weinke
Sage Rosenfels
Jesse Palmer
Joe Germaine
Aaron Brooks
Danny Wuerffel
Pat Barnes
Jeff Lewis
Danny Kanell
Rob Johnson
Chad May
Dave Barr
Steve Stenstrom
Perry Klein
Doug Nussmeier
Craig Erikson
Casey Weldon
Will Furrer
Chris Hakel
Scott Zolak
Donald Hollas
Bill Muscrave
Troy Taylor
Cary Conklin
Scott Mitchell

Cousins, Orton, Wallace, Garrard, Rosenfels, Brooks and Johnson have all been decent back-up QBs over the same span of years.

Any way you cut it the 4th round is a crap-shoot. If you have a highly graded player sitting there in the 4th, even if all you expect him to be is a back-up QB. That is still decent value for that part of the draft based on history.

IMO, he was drafted as a developmental QB that they could  
jcn56 : 8/26/2013 1:20 pm : link
trade after a season or two. You can't make him a backup this season because he's clearly not ready. You can make him the 2nd string next year if he makes progress, and go so far as to put him on the trading block to see if anyone comes along and offers a decent pick for him.

It's a 4th rounder - not saying they're disposable, but you're not likely to get a quality starter there (for most positions), and even a solid backup would take some time to develop.
Doomster : 8/26/2013 3:25 pm : link
Maybe some team gets desperate for a young QB and will offer something of value.

Think they will offer what we gave up to draft this guy? A 4th and 6th? Who would pay even that for a guy who probably will never be in an NFL game? If he never plays a regular NFL game, how do you put a value on him?

If the Giants don't get something much better than that, it's a mistake on their part, if he is never used.....
i have to disagree  
evaluator : 8/26/2013 11:42 pm : link
with most of the posters on here about this subject.imho,carr is no.#2,nassib is the 3rd string,and painter should be gone.carr is a former overall #1,and with the Texans,was sacked more times in a 5 year span than any other qb in history,so it is a fact that towards the end of his time there he was gun shy,either diving for the ground,or throwing the ball away way too soon-however,in the few times he has been on the field with the 1st string,i think he has performed well,showing very little fear in the pocket,and stepping up in it when he has to.if eli went down(and I am praying he never does),I think that carr might struggle for his first game,possibly 2,then do very well...painter? look how he did stepping in for peyton the year before last-nuff said.
Yeah, no  
David in LA : 8/27/2013 1:38 am : link
many did not think he was a top 10 pick, that in itself is a gross exaggeration.
this thread  
Dylan fan : 8/27/2013 4:11 am : link
More idiocy on this thread than at an idiot's convention.
I don't think Nassib was drafted for any reason other than...  
Mike in Long Beach : 8/27/2013 4:46 am : link
...that he gives the Giants options.

I think Matt Flynn-to-Seattle made a lot of GMs see the value in having a capable back-up beyond the obvious need when a starter gets hurt. The Giants know there's a chance in 2 to 3 years they can convert that once-4th round pick possibly into a 3rd or even second rounder by trading him.

Even without that, you can look at what happened to Brady and Peyton Manning, both of which were in similar consecutive-game streaks to Eli (Peyton's significantly longer, actually) and see why drafting Nassib makes sense. Knock the fuck on wood, but on any given play, we could loss Eli anywhere from one play to one series to one season. It's the nature of the NFL and I'm sure no one here needs an education on that aspect of things. Nassib is a guy who--with the proper development--can hopefully step in and be a productive player and maybe even keep a team in playoff contention if the running game and defense cooperates... maybe even better. Who the Hell knows?

I was off the mindset that Nassib was going to be our backup quaterback this year and we wouldn't carry three QBs, but I've since waived on this position when neither Painter nor Carr was let go in the first round of cuts. The Giants are a classy organization and I think they'd like to give whoever they're gonna cut more time if they actually knew he was going to be cut. I genuinely don't think the Giants know who they want to let go, and all this tells me that we might have to prepare ourselves for a 3-QB'd roster. It makes sense on some levels. I don't think Eli is going to be in student-teacher mode with the Demarcus Wares of the NFL ready to kill him every week... in his prime, none the less. Painter or Carr could work with Nassib, make him a better player, while simultaneously bringing experience to the backup QB spot.

Are there other needs that could better be addressed with a roster spot than the 3rd string QB? Perhaps. But why are we still carrying four if the Giants feel this way?
The question no longer seems to be whether Nassib is ready to be #2.  
Big Blue Blogger : 8/27/2013 6:23 am : link
The answer to that one is probably no, although the light bulb could go on for Nassib at some point this season.

So the immediate question is whether it's practical for an NFL team to keep its #2 quarterback on a couch, thousands of miles away. There are precedents of a sort: guys like Vinny Testaverde and Kerry Collins have come off Barcaloungers to start; but it's not something an NFL team normally plans on.
Trading backup QB's for high picks  
cj : 8/27/2013 8:47 am : link
I think Flynn and Kolb are depressing the market for backups that look good in limited stints.

So that's what the draft is for now?  
RB^2 : 8/27/2013 9:28 am : link
Speculating what we can trade today's mid-rounders for in a couple of years?
Hades07 : 8/27/2013 9:44 am : link
I highly doubt that was a factor in the decision to select Nassib when they did. Supposedly they graded him with a 2nd round value. When he was still on the board at the top of the 4th, he must have been significantly higher graded than anyone else left. So they trade up to get the best player available by what sounds like a great margin. Back-up QBs have value. Back-up QBs with the skills to become good starters have more in a league where you are always one play from retirement.

Based on Eli's history of not missing time, it leads me to believe he plays through a lot of injuries that others will miss time for. Which means when he does miss some time to an injury, it will likely be a fairly significant injury and he will be out for a while. Having a guy who can grow into a starters role would be smart roster management.
RB^2 : 8/27/2013 10:54 am : link
You say it's not driven by speculation and then you give a rationale that's pure speculation. Backup QBs have value, that's great but you're still assuming the pick is going to be used as trade bait as opposed to playing for the team that drafted him, which most draft picks are intended to do.
Phil Simms was pretty indestructible and in his prime  
Lurts : 8/27/2013 11:48 am : link
when the Giants wasted a third round pick on Jeff Hostetler.

I forget how that turned out.
Hostetler was drafted in 1984  
Ben in Adirondacks : 8/27/2013 12:20 pm : link
Simms had zero starts in 1982 or 1983 because of injuries. Simms had his breakout year in 1984 when Hostetler was a rookie.
Painter has a remote chance  
mrvax : 8/27/2013 12:26 pm : link
of winning a game. Nassib needs 1 year to get the feel of the NFL. If the Giants could win a few games years ago with Danny Kanell, you never know...

I'd like to keep both Painter and Nassib on the roster.
If there had been free agency in 1988...  
Big Blue Blogger : 8/27/2013 12:31 pm : link
...Hostetler wouldn't have been around for SB XXV.

Then again, if there had been free agency in 1984, Simms might not have been around for SB XXI.
You guys are making it far too complicated  
nygirlie : 8/27/2013 12:36 pm : link
Carr and Painter are both bad, Carr the better of the two. At the moment Nassib is worse.

Next year they hope Nassib will outperform Carr. End of story.
Hades07 : 8/27/2013 1:17 pm : link
I think you misunderstood what I meant. I don't think they drafted him on any potential trade value. I speculate that they drafted him because they felt he was the highest graded player available by a wide margin which is why they traded up to get him.
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